paulludvig said:

BartVanHemelen said:

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Exactly. And THAT is the problem: Prince vatsly overestimating his worth. Just like he walked out of the iTunes meeting because they didn't offer him millions.

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No sane label will want to invest a truckload of money without iron-clad guarantees dude is gonna promote the shit out of it. Oh, and they'll also want input on the contents.

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Prince doesn't grasp that WBR treated him exceptionally well over the years, nor does he understand how the msuic biz has changed.

Why should Prince let them, a corporate entity, have that kind of input?

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If they're footing the bill, they'll demand input. That's how it worked for years, BTW: with A&R people "advising" artists on what's expected. "We don't hear a hit", for instance.

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Prince may be used to "here's my album, pay me the money", but that won't work when you demand a lot of money and don't expect to do anything in return. Kobalt aren't going to throw bucketloads of money at Prince for the "honor" of releasing an album that's basically DOA. They want ROI.

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[Edited 6/30/15 6:04am]

feeluupp said:

databank said:

Can he even? I wonder whether his licencing deal with WB involves him being compulsarily oblliged to allow WB to put the material on Amazon and iTunes and on streaming services, there has to be some guarantee for WB to be able to still exploit the material.

I have a feeling the only reason Prince signed with WB was to get his masters back, and the only reason WB signed with Prince was to release delux editions of his old material for a quick cash grab.

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WBR wanted to keep his albums with them, hence the exclusive licensing deal. Deluxe editions and remasters would be bonuses, but I suspect they didn't have great expectations.

databank said:

feeluupp said:

I have a feeling the only reason Prince signed with WB was to get his masters back, and the only reason WB signed with Prince was to release delux editions of his old material for a quick cash grab.

In fact both signed this deal to avoid a legal battle that prince would likely have won and WB lost

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There is absolutely no reason to believe WBR would have lost.

databank said:

BartVanHemelen said:

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This is BS. People aren't buying his shit because it's shit. They look at their CDs and realize there's a pile of dust on the stuff he's released in the past 20 years. They don't need more coasters.

Oh please Bart, don't do that with ME. You and I know better that to BS each other. I don't intefere when u sell vacuum cleaners to others but don't do that to ME. I was saying lots of people don't buy music anymore, that's just a factual observation, don't reply something else that's got nothing to do with my statement.

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It's far easier to buy a record in the shops or from iTunes than to "steal" it. Sheesh, there are people here who need instructions to work with a frikking ZIP file, yet they're supposed to be tech savvy enough to locate and download Prince albums?

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Look at the ever decreasing sales numbers for Prince records and the reality is that at a certain point people just stop buying it because they've figured out it isn't worth their time or money. And if it is they'll hear about it anyway -- but that ain't happening because Prince doesn't promote shit.

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It's a combination of several factors, and one of them will be the decline in music sales -- except that there's still a bunch of people who continue to buy physical product... and they're more or less the same ones who used to buy Prince's output. But they cannot buy what they want: deluxe editions of the albums they love. They stopped giving a fuck about Prince's tepid post-WBR output long ago years ago.

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Just look at the discrepancy between the sales of AOA and PlecElec: somehow half of the people who bought AOA "forgot" to buy PlecElec. You'd think they'd jump at the opportunity to buy more Prince product, especially after years of no releases, and yet they skipped the 3EG record.

RJOrion said:

AOA sold 173k WORLDWIDE...

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wow...thats shockingly low..

That's way more than I thought that crapfest of shitty shit, would sale. Let's face it, his new music is pure shit, and he's an complete asshole to deal with from a business standpoint! That's why his career is in the toilet. It's nobody's fault but Prince. If it wasn't for Prince still having a name as a great live performer, he would be on the level of an Garage/Mall act.

[Edited 6/30/15 7:34am]

BartVanHemelen said:

databank said:

In fact both signed this deal to avoid a legal battle that prince would likely have won and WB lost

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There is absolutely no reason to believe WBR would have lost.

There is a LAW, I can't see how Prince could have lost.

BartVanHemelen said:

databank said:

Oh please Bart, don't do that with ME. You and I know better that to BS each other. I don't intefere when u sell vacuum cleaners to others but don't do that to ME. I was saying lots of people don't buy music anymore, that's just a factual observation, don't reply something else that's got nothing to do with my statement.

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It's far easier to buy a record in the shops or from iTunes than to "steal" it. Sheesh, there are people here who need instructions to work with a frikking ZIP file, yet they're supposed to be tech savvy enough to locate and download Prince albums?

Well IDK how old u r or who u're hanging with but all the poeple I know in france who are in their 30's or younger know perfectly how to download music illegally, and I know a lot of people

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Look at the ever decreasing sales numbers for Prince records and the reality is that at a certain point people just stop buying it because they've figured out it isn't worth their time or money. And if it is they'll hear about it anyway -- but that ain't happening because Prince doesn't promote shit.

There would have been a decline in Prince sales regardless of illegal download, I'll give u that, but certainly not to that extent. But yeah when Prince moved his ass to promote Musicology it paid off. Besides I think Prince being able to sell several millions units per album while releasing an album every year from 1983 to 1992 was a very exceptional phenomenon, nearly a marketing miracle, there was no way it could last forever. Had he released an album every 3/4 years and promoted it like a maniac yeah maybe, but not while releasing an album or more every year or so.

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It's a combination of several factors, and one of them will be the decline in music sales -- except that there's still a bunch of people who continue to buy physical product... and they're more or less the same ones who used to buy Prince's output. But they cannot buy what they want: deluxe editions of the albums they love. They stopped giving a fuck about Prince's tepid post-WBR output long ago years ago.

IDK about that, this minority of people who kept buying physical albums are the hardcore fans community and yet again mostly the older generation (I think lots of new, young fans here simply downloaded the whole discography for free), and not even all of them. When u come here u keep reading older fans saying they lost interest in p's music and at the same time those same people all claim the've purchased each and every new release so at least when it comes to the hardcore, physical purchasing minority, I don't think there is a relation between their distaste for P's new music and the act of purchasing it.

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Just look at the discrepancy between the sales of AOA and PlecElec: somehow half of the people who bought AOA "forgot" to buy PlecElec. You'd think they'd jump at the opportunity to buy more Prince product, especially after years of no releases, and yet they skipped the 3EG record.

I assume it shows that half the purchases of AOA = hardcore fans and the other half = casual listeners or moderate fans: this would explain the discrepency. AOA got way more favorable reviews than PlecEl on the Org so I assume casual listeners also felt AOA was a more appealing record when listening to samples of it. By all means this certainly shows that P's hardcore fanbase has decreased by comparison to 20 years ago, but once again I wonder how many people here actually download illegally and keep silent about it: every time I stated that I do it on the Org, I was the object of a ridiculous witchhunt, so I assume lots of people here will rather keep quiet about it or lie about purchasing the recent albums than being bullied.

Scarfo said:

RJOrion said:

AOA sold 173k WORLDWIDE...

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wow...thats shockingly low..

That's way more than I thought that crapfest of shitty shit, would sale. Let's face it, his new music is pure shit, and he's an complete asshole to deal with from a business standpoint! That's why his career is in the toilet. It's nobody's fault but Prince. If it wasn't for Prince still having a name as a great live performer, he would be on the level of an Garage/Mall act.

[Edited 6/30/15 7:34am]

Plectrum sold under 70,000 World Wide, can you believe that?? His second lowest selling album all time behind N.E.W.S.

feeluupp said:

Plectrum sold under 70,000 World Wide, can you believe that?? His second lowest selling album all time behind N.E.W.S.

And I prefer Plectrum to AOA.

I wish he would hire someone to make his business decisions for him! Take U2, for instance. Say what you will about the album give away and its fallout - they are playing 5 sold-out shows in Chicago this week. They rebounded tremendously from the SoI iTunes mess. One more comparison I'll make is they embrace social media and still make shit tons of money. I know P says it isn't about the money, but he has contradicted this many times over in interviews (like on Leno, etc), and I believe it's the thought of money that keeps his music off YouTube, etc. Don't get me wrong, P is my all time favorite singer/performer and always will be, I just wish he made better decisions. It's like everything he touches goes unnoticed or gets noticed for all the wrong reasons (Judith Hill, the AOA/PlecElec party with Maya as uninformed hostess, the AMA where he answered one question, etc.).

It does make me happy to see his concerts sell out with his current string of Hit N Run shows.

Man, Bart really does not like Prince. And he's incredibly commited to not liking him.

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I have my own issues with my favorite musician and the way he does business sometimes but goddamn, Bart. Do you ever re-read your posts or review your own post history? I don't normally say this and usually hate when others do but, honestly, why do you still even bother?

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It must be exhausting to live in your skin and take the time to post about how much you hate every single thing Prince does. Or has done since SOTT. Why bother? We get it. You don't like him or anything he's done in 25 years and you're not likely to like anything he does anytime soon. If he came out with anothjer "Joy In Repition" and emptied the vault, I doubt you'd like any of it. I mean, Jesus Christ, give it a rest, dude. Take a break. Breathe.

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Go rant and post and dedicate your time to something that matters or might make a difference in the world. You seem to possess a lot of free time, energy and passion and you're not a bad writer. Nor are you dumb. Maybe take a break for a while or re-direct your energy. Just a suggestion.

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You haven't said a single solitary happy or positive thing in over 10 or 15 years now. Why torture yourself? I'm genuinely curious.

BartVanHemelen said:

databank said:

In fact both signed this deal to avoid a legal battle that prince would likely have won and WB lost

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There is absolutely no reason to believe WBR would have lost.

I dont see how WB would have lost either. Prince signed the contract too. His hand famously shook as he signed it, he knew he was giving away control but wanted the $100m.

u people care more about how u r viewed "liking" a "sinking" artist...than what he wants...

luvsexy4all said:

u people care more about how u r viewed "liking" a "sinking" artist...than what he wants...

Huh? Can you elaborate with real words and entire sentences because I can't parse your meaning here at all. Who are "you people"? What does your post even mean?

databank said:

BartVanHemelen said:

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There is absolutely no reason to believe WBR would have lost.

There is a LAW, I can't see how Prince could have lost.

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Laws are interpreted by lawyers and courts. Plus there are also contracts. WBR could also prolong this fight endlessly. Plus they know that Prince hates being in court. Meanwhile all that Prince has no control of his masters.

herb4 said:

Man, Bart really does not like Prince. And he's incredibly commited to not liking him.

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I have my own issues with my favorite musician and the way he does business sometimes but goddamn, Bart. Do you ever re-read your posts or review your own post history? I don't normally say this and usually hate when others do but, honestly, why do you still even bother?

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It must be exhausting to live in your skin and take the time to post about how much you hate every single thing Prince does. Or has done since SOTT. Why bother? We get it. You don't like him or anything he's done in 25 years and you're not likely to like anything he does anytime soon. If he came out with anothjer "Joy In Repition" and emptied the vault, I doubt you'd like any of it. I mean, Jesus Christ, give it a rest, dude. Take a break. Breathe.

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Go rant and post and dedicate your time to something that matters or might make a difference in the world. You seem to possess a lot of free time, energy and passion and you're not a bad writer. Nor are you dumb. Maybe take a break for a while or re-direct your energy. Just a suggestion.

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You haven't said a single solitary happy or positive thing in over 10 or 15 years now. Why torture yourself? I'm genuinely curious.

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Oh look, someone making up shit. Stick to the subject of the thread, please.

Now that Prince removed all his music from streaming sites except Tidal... I would be very interested to see the sales figures for his future upcoming releases... Might be disasterful.

herb4 said:

BartVanHemelen said:

herb4 said:

Stuff about Bart

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Oh look, someone making up shit. Stick to the subject of the thread, please.

What did I "make up"? Quote the parts I invented out of whole cloth when the mood strikes you. You certanly seem to have the time and the energy. You seem like a really fun and happy person too, Bart. A real hoot. I was responding to the (numerous) posts you've made in THIS THREAD, so I think I'm rather on topic.

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Or is responding to tother member's posts somehow "off topic"? Enlighten me.

[Edited 7/2/15 9:03am]

[Edited 7/2/15 9:04am]

GoldiesParade said:

BartVanHemelen said:

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There is absolutely no reason to believe WBR would have lost.

I dont see how WB would have lost either. Prince signed the contract too. His hand famously shook as he signed it, he knew he was giving away control but wanted the $100m.

why do you think they couldnt' lose..Prince was on the right side of History in getting hos Masters back..

aaroncanderson said:

I for one am glad he doesn't have a social media presecne. Too many of the artists I like lose their mystic and coolness they have when they are constantly on social media tweeting about doing things that I am doing too. Oh wow you are eating Pho too, I had that last night for dinner. Prince is still too cool for school because I have no idea what he is doing right now. But if I go to my tweeter feed I can see what 189 of my other favorite artists are doing. I don't think Prince's career could be any better right now. How many artists from 1977 are still sealing out shows, like 10?

As far as album sales go, they will consistently decrease over time. Only hardcore collectors will buy vinyls everyone else will just digitally download music. If Prince wanted to get a top 10 hit he would have to have some social media beef with Chris Brown or get "caught" hooking up with Kim Kardashsian. Only people who are social media whores top the charts these days.

dude, good words. you know that feeling when someone is able to put into words what you yourself believes? you just said it. thx.