feeluupp said:

He promoted Musicology well...

3m copies sold worlwide

#1 grossing tour of 2004 with 86 million grossed

2 grammy awards

All this 20 years after his biggest success with Purple Rain too...

That made him re-respected in the eyes of the public and popular to admire. It gave him that 'legend' status. But that's not what he was going for with Emancipation+Rave, he was trying to be Pop Star Prince. He ultimately didn't achieve in that regard, so I'm wondering what his Org critics (which includes me at times) think should have happened differently for that to succeed

bonatoc said:

Frontless pants.

.

This isn't a 'what would you have done to destroy Prince's career' thread!

stillwaiting said:

I've probably written a billion posts about this. Revisionist history is fun for me. I could probably make his career better now, but he'd probably rather botch promotion, he'd probably rather have a party with the "Lovesex That's My Jam" Girl, he'd probably rather have both albums tank quickly, he'd probably rather not have any real structured tour...so my interest in this has waned a bit...

But since I like revisionist history...I'd need a time machine

1. Let 1978-1981 be as it was.

2. From 1982-83 maybe just switch "How Come U Don't Call Me Anymore" for "International Lover."

3. From 1984...make "The Beautiful Ones" the 3rd single with a unique video that doesn't use the film footage.

4. From 1985 on...Just release an album every 3 years. Let Sign O The Times be the follow up to Purple Rain, make B-Sides live versions of album tracks, let the original b-sides be great album tracks.

And most important...instead of 1 album every single year, stick with the every 3-4 years, and every 10 years or so release HUGE 10-15 disc sets of vault material for the diehards.

What would this have accomplished?

Instead of having a disjointed crowded mess in the Prince section at the Wreckastows, there would have been huge demand for the next release. Imagine Kiss, U Got The Look, and SOTT as the first 3 singles from SOTT...all likely would have hit #1.

Imagine getting a 10 cd set of outtakes in 1995, 1999, and 2004. That's 30 discs of music. Each disc would be 70-79 minutes instead of the 40 minute Crystal Ball discs...

So even though there would be only 6 or so albums after Purple Rain from 1985-2004, there would have been TONS more music released. The major releases would just have him put the best songs out there for the masses, and we would have all the deep cuts to argue about on prince.org. Instead of the public looking at him as a legend, but a legend with a lot of warts, he would have sold a lot more.

But then again, there are those on this site that think crowding the market was the better path.

Just ask U2, Janet, and Michael Jackson...all 3 of who FAR outsold Prince from 1986 on by NOT flooding the market.

.

That plan would have given Prince a completely different career. It also makes me realize that talking about the things that he'd do differently also raises the question, how would the latter half of his career be affected. Would he still be following the plan today and having minor Top 40 hits?.. personally, I think releasing 1 album a year worked out OK for him because every one of them back in the day went platinum at least, and had a few hits. Having a multiple-CD outtake collection wouldn't be the same as having an 'ATWIAD' era or a 'Lovesexy' era.

.

But that's the whole point, that the 80s WORKED for P. The 90s is the time he kept trying to make a commercial comeback (Emancipation, Rave, the millions of interviews) but kept failing. What do you believe he could have done differently then? After all, we complain about his 80s run but no album has sold less than 2M. His later-90s albums, some have struggled to reach 500K and it's obvious he didn't want that

emesem said:

1) Hired a top notch therapist.

2) Hired him a tutor to teach him world history

3) Locked him and Cody Chesnut into a studio with a drum, bass, guitar and a 4-track recorder

This, but without Cody Chesnut.

databank said:

CharismaDove said:

Lately there have been a flood of posts about how Prince deserves more, Prince barely sold anything in the US, Prince had horrible promotion even at his prime, why does Prince have so few awards, etc etc etc.

.

He had a fairly great run from 1982-1994. After TMBIGTW hit huge and The Gold Experience bombed, what would YOU have done to rescue his career? AKA, what would you as his manager tell him to do. Would you try to make a huge 1996 comeback with Emancipation or is that too soon after Gold/I Hate U? Would you try and release Emancipation in 1997? What type of album would you want Prince to release and what kind of promotion (remember, he promoted the hell out of some of his late-90s albums and they STILL failed) would you want. What could Prince have done to secure a spot in that late-90s/early-00s era alongside the few 80s stars there like Sting, Madonna, Janet, Whitney, & Michael?

.

Genuinely curious to see what y'all's opinions are on what he did wrong and why most of his 'comebacks' were only moderately successful.

EDIT: Also...... when do you think the comeback should have happened? Manuela helped him in 2004 but more to make him a legend/icon and show off his musical talents, not make him a pop star again

[Edited 12/4/14 14:15pm]

Emancipation would have been much more successful had not EMI collapsed a few months after its release. Sleep Around could easily have been a club hit in the summer of 97, for example.

1998 was the wild year when did whatever the fuck he wanted and we were spoiled with music so I ain't gonna complain he released too much.

Rave could also have been a D&P kind of success, had not Gwen Stefani's label blocked the release of So Far, So Good as a single, had not TGRES been chosen as the first single and hadn't gone into a feud with Arista 3 months after the album was out.

So basically there was nothing to be done about Emancipation because it was an external factor, and when it comes to Rave not much either because there was yet another external factor, poor choice of a lead single and 's usual bad temper.

As for when I think the comeback should have happened if Musicology won't count (why it shouldn't count IDK)? Never. I don't want to be a superstar, I want him to be an independent artist who releases 12 albums a year for his fanbase. NPGMC2001 was what I want. No more, no less.

Interesting.. I never knew those bolded points. I think Emancipation might not have been properly promoted after Prince's personal problems in late-1996.. maybe the album had too much sadness associated to it (Mayte and the baby) so he didn't care to promote it any more. Maybe I'm wrong.

.

I also want the 12 albums a year but I think it's crucial for P to succeed. If he hadn't succeeded, we never would have gotten ATWIAD, Parade, or even SOTT. It's because he continuosly made/makes the chart that he was able to continue releasing weird music off such a prestigous label (Warner), and why he continues releasing albums today (profit). Because of Plec's relative failure, I have a feeling we're not getting another album soon... oddly, his low sales didn't seem to bother him in the 2000-03 era (NEWS barely sold 40K and Rainbow Children a little over 500K iirc), but he's seemed obsessed with sales lately. Off topic, sorry.

RedKite said:

I am not sure Prince needs his career rescued at all. Prince has done what he wants to and seems to be doing ok.

The only change I would have made was not having release his Greatest Hits album in 1993 which in my opinion knocked Prince's career off track. Prince had a great run muscially from 1982 to 1992. Most of the time Prince was setting the trends in music and always seemed to redefine what was cool and hip in our musical culture until 1993. 1993-94 was when Prince was writing all the music that became the Come album, which was released in 1994, and the Gold album that was released in 1995.

After the release of in 1992 I would have advised Prince to release the Come/Gold album material in 1993. At that time the Come/Gold material sounded fresh, hip, and very different for Prince and fit in the 1993 vibe. The GH album delayed that material by one to two years and by then Grunge exploded and the once cool Come/Gold material once released lost some of its shimmer. By then also most of those tunes were on bootlegs at the time so the music did sound as fresh as it would have if it was released in 1993.

The only other thing I would have changed would be for Prince to tour the US more than he did but to do that we would have lost a lot of really good music in the 80's and 90's. Not being on the road so much meant he could be in the studio more creating new songs. It is a trade off. I know I would not want to change anything about those days. The music was, and is, exceptional. They were great days to live through

I like your idea. I never really saw how Come & Gold could fit together smoothly, but as 1 album with proper promotion and none of the 'Prince is dead' hoopla, it would have been a bigger hit than the 2 albums released combined. I still like 1994 emo-goth Prince

.

I also read somewhere about how The Hits being released in 1993 made it look as if Prince was 'resigning' from being a pop star and releasing his first compilation as a way of 'embracing' his oldness. It was on the org lol

udo said:

Pentacle said:

But he'll never listen to this manager, Udo...

So then he has this `failed` career.

See the remasters, live releases, album releases, fan treatment, etc, etc the past decade(s) or so.

It's 1986 all over again, with Prince thinking he can direct his own movie and doesn't need a professional's help *twirls away*

vinaysfunk said:

"Rescue" is a strong word. It implies that there was or is a problem. I don't look at his career in that light at all. Prince is one of the world's biggest enigma when it comes to the music world. He is a mystery to everything he does. He changes his musical styles, his clothes, his bands and he is focused on different things at different points in his career as a musician. But I firmly believe that he has accomplished all that he set out to do many years ago at a tender age of 17. He is a musical icon in so many ways. And to be perfectly honest I like that he is somewhat unpredicatable. I think he said it best in his own words during an interview the parade era. He said something to the effect that he wants to be judged by the music he makes, nothing else. I think that's very fair. Almost everything else is private and off limits. Yeah we can make comments and judgements but I think that for a lot of people the focus drifts away from the music and onto his personal actions. I am into prince for his music, period. In closing I still think his career is firmly intact and he needs no rescuing.

Not sure about "rescue" but would "take care" of Larry Graham before he had a chance to fuck with the Purple One's mind. Damn shame.

stillwaiting said:

I've probably written a billion posts about this. Revisionist history is fun for me. I could probably make his career better now, but he'd probably rather botch promotion, he'd probably rather have a party with the "Lovesex That's My Jam" Girl, he'd probably rather have both albums tank quickly, he'd probably rather not have any real structured tour...so my interest in this has waned a bit...

But since I like revisionist history...I'd need a time machine

1. Let 1978-1981 be as it was.

2. From 1982-83 maybe just switch "How Come U Don't Call Me Anymore" for "International Lover."

3. From 1984...make "The Beautiful Ones" the 3rd single with a unique video that doesn't use the film footage.

4. From 1985 on...Just release an album every 3 years. Let Sign O The Times be the follow up to Purple Rain, make B-Sides live versions of album tracks, let the original b-sides be great album tracks.

And most important...instead of 1 album every single year, stick with the every 3-4 years, and every 10 years or so release HUGE 10-15 disc sets of vault material for the diehards.

What would this have accomplished?

Instead of having a disjointed crowded mess in the Prince section at the Wreckastows, there would have been huge demand for the next release. Imagine Kiss, U Got The Look, and SOTT as the first 3 singles from SOTT...all likely would have hit #1.

Imagine getting a 10 cd set of outtakes in 1995, 1999, and 2004. That's 30 discs of music. Each disc would be 70-79 minutes instead of the 40 minute Crystal Ball discs...

So even though there would be only 6 or so albums after Purple Rain from 1985-2004, there would have been TONS more music released. The major releases would just have him put the best songs out there for the masses, and we would have all the deep cuts to argue about on prince.org. Instead of the public looking at him as a legend, but a legend with a lot of warts, he would have sold a lot more.

But then again, there are those on this site that think crowding the market was the better path.

Just ask U2, Janet, and Michael Jackson...all 3 of who FAR outsold Prince from 1986 on by NOT flooding the market.

Geez, there's a bunch of bad ideas here. Why do people always wanna fix Prince's career

decisions? Around the World In A Day is one of my favorite Prince albums, and indeed it's the album that made me a fan, but under your plan that never would have happened. Also, I like the fact that there's been as many albums in as many years. Why should Prince change his creative output just to suit people who wanna fix his career.

Speaking rationally Around The World In A Day and Parade NEVER should've happened. Or possibly as non-promoted side project eps. Now they are two of my favorite Prince albums, but strictly speaking from a career building and legacy fulfilling standpoint the albums are just too "out there".

>

If we all admit it Prince has this mental block where he's afraid of real success. I know I know he's had real success after Purple Rain, but a thinking person would've let the Purple Rain succes run its course, start working on a true follow up that would've pushed that momentum even further, and just get down to the business of working an album like it should (talented video directors, releasing the right singles, nice tour, awards promotions).

>

Case in point it doesn't look like the 30th Anniversary thing is gonna happen. From a marketing standpoint having that thing out on the anniversary date would've been a commercial and media cash cow. As it stands it'll hopefully be a good release (you never know with Prince) but it'll fall below the radar. I'm willing to bet money on it.

CynicKill said:

Speaking rationally Around The World In A Day and Parade NEVER should've happened. Or possibly as non-promoted side project eps. Now they are two of my favorite Prince albums, but strictly speaking from a career building and legacy fulfilling standpoint the albums are just too "out there".

These albums are precisely why Prince has a career, as we speak.

ATWIAD was one of the greatest rock'n'roll (meaning bollocks) moves in a period where everything in the music industry was subject to the Wanna-replicate-Thriller virus.
Now new wolves were circulating at Warner's, Columbia, EMI... Time for big bucks. And to lose your soul in the process.

Without the vacations of the mind that UTCM and Camille/Crystal Ball/Dream Factory have been ,

the guy would never have made such a statement as SOTT is and always will be.
If he had followed the "Music Business Man" model (like a masculine Madonna), with attention to trends and fashion, he would be filthy rich, that I'm sure of.
But he would've never met Miles.

Whoops let me rephrase : Miles would've never felt like talking to this hypothetical kind of guy.

But if you like your fiction of a Purple Rain vol. 2, it's called "The Gold Experience".
But it's to Purple Rain what "Dangerous" is to Thriller.

A little too perfect and self-concerned, for anyone's taste.

Ah, Pussy Control. Well OK if you put it that way.

The Gold Experience : The perfect Xanadu, the Ultimate Ivory Tower. À la Spector, à la Howard Hughes.

Hence Emancipation, etc. which is, in fact, a very interesting carrer in itself, although completely different.
Maybe we have to speak of carrers when it comes to Skipper.

Pentacle said:

I would have euthanized him after the last Chaos And Disorder-sessions (we'd only be missing out on a handful of good tunes), released a deluxe Purple Rain box, and followed this up by a Vault-cd every year.

Now aren't we the cranky one.

[Edited 12/7/14 10:15am]

Only thing I would have really done is maintained a quality dedicated website. NPGMC was close. Keeping that going and evolving would have been a good idea. I also think he's missed the boat there with soundboard quality recordings and video of his live material made available exclusively thorough the website. The YouTube and fansite wars are pretty off-putting and tiresome as well.

.

Other than that, he seems to be doing OK.

bonatoc said:

Pentacle said:

I would have euthanized him after the last Chaos And Disorder-sessions (we'd only be missing out on a handful of good tunes), released a deluxe Purple Rain box, and followed this up by a Vault-cd every year.

Now aren't we the cranky one.

[Edited 12/7/14 10:15am]

Yep, I've had it. Just tell us what's what:

- Either you're never going to release remasters and vault material, including concerts etc, but you keep releasing new 'music' (which I will never buy)

- Or you do both, and provide us with some sort of time table; I know that even Paul McCartney is vague about his reissues, and that is a sensible human being, but still; you can at least say 'It will never happen'

- in which case, as I said somewhere else, we still have a court case to look forward to and can remain a little hopeful

Who cares that Prince is doing great on his own terms, or has enough money to last him a lifetime? We want 'the good shit'.

CharismaDove said:

databank said:

Emancipation would have been much more successful had not EMI collapsed a few months after its release. Sleep Around could easily have been a club hit in the summer of 97, for example.

1998 was the wild year when did whatever the fuck he wanted and we were spoiled with music so I ain't gonna complain he released too much.

Rave could also have been a D&P kind of success, had not Gwen Stefani's label blocked the release of So Far, So Good as a single, had not TGRES been chosen as the first single and hadn't gone into a feud with Arista 3 months after the album was out.

So basically there was nothing to be done about Emancipation because it was an external factor, and when it comes to Rave not much either because there was yet another external factor, poor choice of a lead single and 's usual bad temper.

As for when I think the comeback should have happened if Musicology won't count (why it shouldn't count IDK)? Never. I don't want to be a superstar, I want him to be an independent artist who releases 12 albums a year for his fanbase. NPGMC2001 was what I want. No more, no less.

Interesting.. I never knew those bolded points. I think Emancipation might not have been properly promoted after Prince's personal problems in late-1996.. maybe the album had too much sadness associated to it (Mayte and the baby) so he didn't care to promote it any more. Maybe I'm wrong.

.

I also want the 12 albums a year but I think it's crucial for P to succeed. If he hadn't succeeded, we never would have gotten ATWIAD, Parade, or even SOTT. It's because he continuosly made/makes the chart that he was able to continue releasing weird music off such a prestigous label (Warner), and why he continues releasing albums today (profit). Because of Plec's relative failure, I have a feeling we're not getting another album soon... oddly, his low sales didn't seem to bother him in the 2000-03 era (NEWS barely sold 40K and Rainbow Children a little over 500K iirc), but he's seemed obsessed with sales lately. Off topic, sorry.

There is little need for speculation here: the facts are that EMI went into bankrupcy in early 1997, and stopped promoting what was going around at the time as well as releasing singles from said albums. Without the label supporting the project and without any additional single there was little could do. He promoted it heavily right after his child passed at the time of release, doing countless TV appearances and giving more interview than ever, and he toured intensively in 1997: he did his part. Obviously the plan was (for once) to promote the album for a long time until he'd release more music later in 1998, wanted to make a point out of the fact that he could do well as a semi-indie and without WB so he wanted a success (and had one to some extent, but it could have done much better with 5 singles instead of 2, though I'm not convinced by his choice of singles, I am not convinced that Betcha, THR and Face Down -the planned third single- were the most appealing songs when it comes to 1997's audiences, at least in Europe).

Your second comment isn't off-topic: would certainly release more if he didn't care much about sales, he clearly stated in 2011 that the fact that there wasn't any money to make with albums anymore stopped him from releasing them. I think it's a pity, though, for as you point out there was a time, between RUTJF and N.E.W.S, when he changed his strategy and we got lots of music at that time

Pentacle said:

bonatoc said:

Now aren't we the cranky one.

[Edited 12/7/14 10:15am]

Yep, I've had it. Just tell us what's what:

- Either you're never going to release remasters and vault material, including concerts etc, but you keep releasing new 'music' (which I will never buy)

- Or you do both, and provide us with some sort of time table; I know that even Paul McCartney is vague about his reissues, and that is a sensible human being, but still; you can at least say 'It will never happen'

- in which case, as I said somewhere else, we still have a court case to look forward to and can remain a little hopeful

Who cares that Prince is doing great on his own terms, or has enough money to last him a lifetime? We want 'the good shit'.

And yet a man's music is made of what the man lives.
I'm afraid you're asking for a good shit that's way beyond.

Note that I agree. Maybe he's scared to start this work of a curator of himself, because he still wants to be a "living" legend, and not become a legend, which somewhat suggests "my only friend, the end".

But I would co-sign for an equivalent of Dylan's Bootleg Series Volumes.

[Edited 12/8/14 9:24am]

thisisreece said:

emesem said:

1) Hired a top notch therapist.

2) Hired him a tutor to teach him world history

3) Locked him and Cody Chesnut into a studio with a drum, bass, guitar and a 4-track recorder

This, but without Cody Chesnut.

CharismaDove said:

feeluupp said:

He promoted Musicology well...

3m copies sold worlwide

#1 grossing tour of 2004 with 86 million grossed

2 grammy awards

All this 20 years after his biggest success with Purple Rain too...

That made him re-respected in the eyes of the public and popular to admire. It gave him that 'legend' status. But that's not what he was going for with Emancipation+Rave, he was trying to be Pop Star Prince. He ultimately didn't achieve in that regard, so I'm wondering what his Org critics (which includes me at times) think should have happened differently for that to succeed

That moment when you realize that it would be a mistake to respond, because what you'd be responding too is stupid and would just drag you down to the level of people you used to dislike 20 years ago.

No wonder Prince tried to have ya'll shut down years ago. What do you people actually do?

Stop production of Under The Cherry Moon before it started

Fire the photographer prior to the Lovesexy photo shoot

Fire the writer and director of Graffiti Bridge

Fire the Game Boyz before they were hired

Fire the hairstylist up to and around the Come era thru Joy un2

Prince's career doesn't need rescuing. He may not have any many awards as he should have, but neither does David Bowie who like Prince is lucky enough to have a career where artistic success is more important to their critics than their commercial success ie music sales and awards.

I just wish Prince never did that whole NPG part of his career in the 90's, I couldn't stand the HipHop element to it with Tony M etc, it was more case of Prince chasing trends instead of setting them in the 1990's. The only good thing about NPG was Rosie Gaines.

I wish I had a career needing rescued like Prince. Every living working musician wished it needed his kind of rescuing.

[Edited 12/8/14 10:36am]

What's next? How 2 resue Michael Jordan's career? Bill Gates? How about Al Pacino?

Stop him from opening his door, that day when the Jehovah Witnesses was on his porch.

BenSCR said:

The only good thing about NPG was Rosie Gaines.

Michael Bland.