You're not really gonna call these people "clowns",are you? That's not very nice.I understand that you don't think they're the best musicians that Prince could have chosen,but let's show them a little respect.

stillwaiting said:

Perhaps "Clowns" was too harsh. Tony M was a clown...many of the other players with him were clowns when you compare them to what was available on the open market for touring musicians. Prince chooses those willing to play for pennies over quality.

I was harsh on the Kat Dysons of the world. But I will call Tony M a clown forever. If he was broken down on the side of the road, I would stop to help, but I'd probably tell him...well I'd just be nice. It's not Tony M's fault that Prince thought he was worthy of being with a legend.

My point wasn't that Kat Dyson/ Cora Coleman Dunham etc were awful musicians. It's just that Prince's 1987-88 band was at a crazy high level. At times after breaking up the 1996 version of the NPG, Prince has not kept his bands at a high level. I have had conversations with multiple band members of the past, and not all of them, not even most of them, but still an ALARMING amount of them say they were not getting paid correctly, and sometimes, not at all.

We all know Prince has had multiple run-ins with companies for not paying his bills.

It is not that far fetched to think that when selecting band members, that the level of musician is nowhere near as important to him as how much crap they can put up with in regards to money. You will never hear of Prince getting in a bidding war with another artist over who to get in his band. It's also obvious that if the band member is a woman, it doesn't matter if she is world class or just somebody he is attracted to...Andy Allo anyone?

stillwaiting said:

I was harsh on the Kat Dysons of the world. But I will call Tony M a clown forever. If he was broken down on the side of the road, I would stop to help, but I'd probably tell him...well I'd just be nice. It's not Tony M's fault that Prince thought he was worthy of being with a legend.

My point wasn't that Kat Dyson/ Cora Coleman Dunham etc were awful musicians. It's just that Prince's 1987-88 band was at a crazy high level. At times after breaking up the 1996 version of the NPG, Prince has not kept his bands at a high level. I have had conversations with multiple band members of the past, and not all of them, not even most of them, but still an ALARMING amount of them say they were not getting paid correctly, and sometimes, not at all.

We all know Prince has had multiple run-ins with companies for not paying his bills.

It is not that far fetched to think that when selecting band members, that the level of musician is nowhere near as important to him as how much crap they can put up with in regards to money. You will never hear of Prince getting in a bidding war with another artist over who to get in his band. It's also obvious that if the band member is a woman, it doesn't matter if she is world class or just somebody he is attracted to...Andy Allo anyone?

I've never heard of a bidding war between stars for session musicians, to be honest. I don't know where u've seen such things happening, maybe they have I ain't saying, but I've never heard of such a thing.

Andy Allo is a talented songwriter and singer. She was obviously not in the band for her skills as a guitarist, more as kind of a special guest star just because liked having her around. As for Tony M. I think we all agree that he was the wrong choice, even though he was a fine rapper in the studio his lyrics were lame and he was just shouting like a maniac on stage. But choosing him had little to do with money, neither was adding Andy: likes to work with people he's familiar/comfortable with, he's never been comfy with strangers and he will often choose the most convenient option even if it's not the best available on the market. Just look at how he's hire his bodyguards as dancers and backup singers in 86-87: he just took the dudes he had around because it was easier 4 him than hiring some new dudes, the same way he just helped himself in Sheila's band just because the folks were around in the first place.

BTW I don't think the 87-88 band was so much better than the bands that came later from a sheer technical POV: I find the 91-95 or 2002-04 line-ups much more solid and tne complexity of the music was significantly higher at this point than in 87-88.

stillwaiting said:

I was harsh on the Kat Dysons of the world. But I will call Tony M a clown forever. If he was broken down on the side of the road, I would stop to help, but I'd probably tell him...well I'd just be nice. It's not Tony M's fault that Prince thought he was worthy of being with a legend.

My point wasn't that Kat Dyson/ Cora Coleman Dunham etc were awful musicians. It's just that Prince's 1987-88 band was at a crazy high level. At times after breaking up the 1996 version of the NPG, Prince has not kept his bands at a high level. I have had conversations with multiple band members of the past, and not all of them, not even most of them, but still an ALARMING amount of them say they were not getting paid correctly, and sometimes, not at all.

We all know Prince has had multiple run-ins with companies for not paying his bills.

It is not that far fetched to think that when selecting band members, that the level of musician is nowhere near as important to him as how much crap they can put up with in regards to money. You will never hear of Prince getting in a bidding war with another artist over who to get in his band. It's also obvious that if the band member is a woman, it doesn't matter if she is world class or just somebody he is attracted to...Andy Allo anyone?

I agree with you about the 1987/88 band.That is my favorite Prince band.They were truly a top-notch group of musicians and they took Prince's stage shows to new heights.I saw the Lovesexy concert and it was the most impressive concert that I have ever seen.I knew that,when Prince dismissed this band in early 1989,it would be extremely difficult for him to put together another band that comes close.

Regarding what you said about money: I recall BrownMark saying that,in 1986,he was offered three times what he was making in Prince's band,to tour with Stevie Nicks He was such a superb bassist that Stevie wanted him,too.

stillwaiting said:

John Blackwell is a great drummer he left to take a teaching position and he said Prince paid even when he was not playing in the band. Just based on this general information you do not seem to know you really need to fall back with your nonsense.

laurarichardson said:

stillwaiting said:

You have nothing to apologize for. You can think however you want. If you truly think Prince's bands have had the best possible musicians available, than so be it. I maintain that he's settling for people who play for pennies. I've talked with many of them. If you ever thought that Rhonda or Josh were in the upper 10% of bassists, then that's fine. If you ever thought Kirk Johnson or Cora were world class drummers ok...that's fine. A lot of people agree with me, and that's fine too.

Perhaps "Clowns" was too harsh. Tony M was a clown...many of the other players with him were clowns when you compare them to what was available on the open market for touring musicians. Prince chooses those willing to play for pennies over quality. From 1997 on, he's done this a lot. I will say the 2002 band was special for the show he was playing, and 2004 as well. And as fine as the 2002 and 2004 bands were, they pale in comparison to the 1987 band. Ida is probably the best in his current band, but as a whole, 3rd Eye Girl are not world class musicians. John Blackwell is not the greatest drummer ever, but he more than shows the skills of someone deserving to tour with who I feel is the greatest artist ever. He should still be in the band. But Prince goes for looks and the novelty of an all girl band over quality.

John Blackwell is a great drummer he left to take a teaching position and he said Prince paid even when he was not playing in the band. Just based on this general information you do not seem to know you really need to fall back with your nonsense.

laurarichardson said:

stillwaiting said:

John Blackwell is a great drummer he left to take a teaching position and he said Prince paid even when he was not playing in the band. Just based on this general information you do not seem to know you really need to fall back with your nonsense.

I won't name names, but Prince has a WELL-DOCUMENTED history of not paying bills, so believing ex-band members saying they were underpaid and had issues with Prince in regards to money is not some far-fetched leap of faith.

The best example I should have used is Sting in 1985 when he went solo..his band was all-black, and

it was comprised of World-Class musicians all of much higher skill than any of Prince's bands since 2006, and you could easily argue that Prince's only band that was of similar quality was the 1987-88 band...

Sting's 1985-86 band:

• Sting – lead vocals, guitar, double bass
• Omar Hakim – drums
• Darryl Jones – bass guitar
• Kenny Kirkland – keyboards
• Branford Marsalis – saxophones, miscellaneous percussion

So just looking at that band....Darryl Jones has been in the Rolling Stones for years, and Branford Marsalis is a highly successful artist in his own right. Sting probably should've kept them together...but he never had a Tony M, or an Andy Allo in a band...

Ok, so maybe I took an extreme example, as that Sting band is maybe one of the best pop bands in history from a musicians point of view.. but anybody who really thinks Prince is constantly trying to get the best possible musician available at all times is out of their mind.

stillwaiting said:

laurarichardson said:

stillwaiting said:

I won't name names, but Prince has a WELL-DOCUMENTED history of not paying bills, so believing ex-band members saying they were underpaid and had issues with Prince in regards to money is not some far-fetched leap of faith.

The best example I should have used is Sting in 1985 when he went solo..his band was all-black, and

it was comprised of World-Class musicians all of much higher skill than any of Prince's bands since 2006, and you could easily argue that Prince's only band that was of similar quality was the 1987-88 band...

Sting's 1985-86 band:

• Sting – lead vocals, guitar, double bass
• Omar Hakim – drums
• Darryl Jones – bass guitar
• Kenny Kirkland – keyboards
• Branford Marsalis – saxophones, miscellaneous percussion

So just looking at that band....Darryl Jones has been in the Rolling Stones for years, and Branford Marsalis is a highly successful artist in his own right. Sting probably should've kept them together...but he never had a Tony M, or an Andy Allo in a band...

Ok, so maybe I took an extreme example, as that Sting band is maybe one of the best pop bands in history from a musicians point of view.. but anybody who really thinks Prince is constantly trying to get the best possible musician available at all times is out of their mind.

Respectfully, I think u r so eager 2 make a point that there's no point anymore in trying to make points here. The mere premise that the 87-88 band was 's best backing band is HIGHLY debatable as far as I'm concerned and seems to me more like an idealized thing just as much as when people claim the Revolution was his best backing band than an objective statement. So IDK, we can go on like that for the next 2 weeks, or we can agree on disagreeing and not being sure whoever's right in the end and just call it a day

stillwaiting said:

Of you do not address John Blackwell and his retainer payments or The Revolution getting 1million dollar a piece
after the Purple Rain tour. I also have not heard of anyone not getting paid since the late 90s.

stillwaiting said:

laurarichardson said:

stillwaiting said:

I won't name names, but Prince has a WELL-DOCUMENTED history of not paying bills, so believing ex-band members saying they were underpaid and had issues with Prince in regards to money is not some far-fetched leap of faith.

The best example I should have used is Sting in 1985 when he went solo..his band was all-black, and

it was comprised of World-Class musicians all of much higher skill than any of Prince's bands since 2006, and you could easily argue that Prince's only band that was of similar quality was the 1987-88 band...

Sting's 1985-86 band:

• Sting – lead vocals, guitar, double bass
• Omar Hakim – drums
• Darryl Jones – bass guitar
• Kenny Kirkland – keyboards
• Branford Marsalis – saxophones, miscellaneous percussion

So just looking at that band....Darryl Jones has been in the Rolling Stones for years, and Branford Marsalis is a highly successful artist in his own right. Sting probably should've kept them together...but he never had a Tony M, or an Andy Allo in a band...

Ok, so maybe I took an extreme example, as that Sting band is maybe one of the best pop bands in history from a musicians point of view.. but anybody who really thinks Prince is constantly trying to get the best possible musician available at all times is out of their mind.

On the ONA tour, Prince had Maceo Parker, Candy Dulfer, Greg Boyer, John Blackwell and Renato Neto in the same band. Not exactly a bad band either, don't you think?

SoulAlive said:

These guys should be best friends! They should be sitting around,having beers,talking about old times,occasionally working on music together.I think Prince has a problem with maintaining friendships with longtime associates.

You can say THAT again!!

SoulAlive said:

I think Prince has a problem with maintaining friendships with longtime associates.

SoulAlive said:

CharismaDove said:

I don't remember which interview it was or when, but didn't Prince claim something like he had changed recently and that in his past he could easily turn on people and never contact them again? It's a shame.

I remember in a 90s interview,Prince was asked if he misses Wendy,Lisa and other associates from his past.He simply said "Attachment is stagnation",implying that it's not good to hold on to the past

Funny thing is his attachment to these specific people helped his music not be so stagnant, and composers like Wendy & Lisa continued to grow. A new collaboration would not sound like Around The World In A Day (or 3RDEYEGIRL).