filthyrichyuppie said:

tricky99 said:

What hes has got is a ton of music over all the years to enjoy. Just like the rest of you spoiled children.

Except that's not what he said is it?

If you going to join in, at least do it properly.

It was as pretty good answer to your question to me, IMHO. Thank you tricky99 for your answer!

filthyrichyuppie said:

RodeoSchro said:

Same thing that's always been there - the music.

And that's what this is all about. Prince will make his music, release his music, and perform his music live on his own terms. All this caterwauling about "ruining his career" is simply uneducated.

I'm surely not smarter than anyone else, but I have been a Prince fan since I bought the 45 for "Soft and Wet" when it came out. I became a serious fan when I listened to the "1999" album through headphones. What am I trying to say?

I've seen Prince do it all. I have learned by now that he is going to do absolutely and only what he wants. No amount of fan pleading, bickering or name-calling is going to change that. It didn't change it in the '80's; it didn't change it in the '90's; it didn't change it in the '00's; and it's not going to change it now.

So my hope is that all those who (I guess) are new to Prince World understand that complaints are a waste of time. You can't predict what Prince will do, or when he'll do it, or especially HOW he'll do it. He'll just do it if or when he decides to do it.

Last but not least, do NOT listen to a bootlegger with a 20-year-long grudge against a man that he's never met. Yes, I am talking about Bart VanHemlen.

Again, I'll just have to refer you to the heading of this post. Alot of you people sure run away with your convictions, don't you?

Don't take this personally. My post wasn't directed at you specifically. It was directed more at those who responded in this thread with the ridiculous claims that Prince has ruined his career.

Of course, my advice to quit listening to BartVanHemelen play out his 20-year-old one-sided argument with a man he's never met is directed to everyone. I wish Bart would go away, or at least go find Prince and settle up with him man-to-man. We're all innocent bystanders in his grude and we should all be tired by now of his constant bellyaching that Prince won't listen to him.

I feel it is a critical career moment in the sense that he can now prove if he has it what it takes to be an album artist again and not just someone that puts together successful live shows and some singles every now and then. If he still wants to release music in his 60s now's the time to prove that he can put out records worth listening to again (don't get me wrong, I rather like his 00s output, but I think he still has something to prove in that regard).

Prince achieved worldwide fame, success, and legendary status. What happened? Even loyal fans are tuning out. Tired of hearing him going on about record labels. Prince has become fairly boring.

.

What is Prince complaining about? He has 100% control of his publishing. The freedom to play gigs at his leisure. A new deal with Warner Music and getting ownership of his masters. Why is Prince going on about record labels now? Why does he care that iTunes wouldn't give him an advance?

.

Prince's studio output has dropped. He must be frustrated by lack of inspiration. He once had incredible material constantly at his fingertips. Like a child he refuses to share his toys. Too stubborn to collaborate or work with an outside producer. Unwilling to write from a more introspective place. How is it that work, from when Prince was in his 20's, can be deeper or more mature lyrically than today?

fbueller said:

Prince achieved worldwide fame, success, and legendary status. What happened? Even loyal fans are tuning out. Tired of hearing him going on about record labels. Prince has become fairly boring.

.

What is Prince complaining about? He has 100% control of his publishing. The freedom to play gigs at his leisure. A new deal with Warner Music and getting ownership of his masters. Why is Prince going on about record labels now? Why does he care that iTunes wouldn't give him an advance?

.

Prince's studio output has dropped. He must be frustrated by lack of inspiration. He once had incredible material constantly at his fingertips. Like a child he refuses to share his toys. Too stubborn to collaborate or work with an outside producer. Unwilling to write from a more introspective place. How is it that work, from when Prince was in his 20's, can be deeper or more mature lyrically than today?

You ask great questions. I will say that it's not uncommon for young artists to be much more mature in their songwriting than older artists. I think it has to do with life perspective, which changes a lot as one ages.

I am not sure Prince's studio output has dropped. Maybe it has but then again - maybe he's released almost all of what he's recorded over the past few years. Who knows? Probably only Prince. So why not assume he's released everything?

I have found that looking back over Prince's career in terms of decades ('70's, '80's, '90's, etc) I find that there are many songs from each decade that I love tremendously. I place "Guitar" and "Screwdriver" among my all-time Prince favorites, just as I do "Computer Blue" and "The Holy River".

No artist is ever going to release a catalogue in which every single song is a classic. Individual tastes vary so much that it would be impossible for any artist to always please everyone. I have a theory that you can take any song by a popular artist and you will find someone for whom that is/recently was their favorite song of all time. I'm sure that in 1991 or 1992, there was at least one person that thought "Jughead" was the best song ever (that person wasn't me!).

So I just take the ride in confidence knowing that while I might not like this release or that release, in any given one- or two-year period Prince is going to release some songs that I really like. And probably one or two that I'll consider all-time classics.

The critical moment has pretty much come and gone. Prepare for a war that Prince can't win. I said it when the deal was announced FAMS better start buying multiple copies. If "The Breakdown" tanked shit would fly. Breakdown tanked and shit is flying. Prince is probably not taking instruction from the label, and what he does on his own, is a bit of a mixed bag: Arsenio was a fine effort, The New Girl was good, but the Essence article was the exact wrong message. I don't think any A&R rep on the planet wants Prince songs produced by Joshua. I'd bet Prince was supplied a list of names that the label would like to produce his new record and he balked at the idea. Personally since any new albums at this time are only useful as a gimmick to push the remasters onto a new generation of fans... and Prince makes new albums largely for shits and giggles anyway... he may as well play their game.

RodeoSchro said:

LMAO at this.

Prince records what he wants, when he wants. He releases it however he wants.

No he doesn't. Rave wasn't released when he wanted it, for instance. It's clear the 3EG record wasn't released when he wanted it. The Kobalt doal hasn't resulted in anything and I bet that's not his choice.

He owns his masters.

No he doesn't. He'll get those one at a time when WB gets a shot at releasing a remastered version first. And I bet there's a significant period before he can do something with a master after he gets it.

funksterr said:

The critical moment has pretty much come and gone. Prepare for a war that Prince can't win. I said it when the deal was announced FAMS better start buying multiple copies. If "The Breakdown" tanked shit would fly. Breakdown tanked and shit is flying. Prince is probably not taking instruction from the label, and what he does on his own, is a bit of a mixed bag: Arsenio was a fine effort, The New Girl was good, but the Essence article was the exact wrong message. I don't think any A&R rep on the planet wants Prince songs produced by Joshua. I'd bet Prince was supplied a list of names that the label would like to produce his new record and he balked at the idea. Personally since any new albums at this time are only useful as a gimmick to push the remasters onto a new generation of fans... and Prince makes new albums largely for shits and giggles anyway... he may as well play their game.

I've always wanted Prince to play the game. A world with Prince in control has been a consistent, unvarying horror show.

Prince should have just shut up and let WB do the talking. Just think how great the last 20 years could have been. There, I said it.

RodeoSchro said:

Of course, my advice to quit listening to BartVanHemelen play out his 20-year-old one-sided argument with a man he's never met is directed to everyone. I wish Bart would go away, or at least go find Prince and settle up with him man-to-man. We're all innocent bystanders in his grude and we should all be tired by now of his constant bellyaching that Prince won't listen to him.

The simple fact that you make up lies about me and PROJECT YOUR DELUDED FANTASIES onto me says all one needs to know.

The simple fact that you once again attack me personally instead of providing arguments says all one needs to know.

Who needs a career when you are worth 300 mill......

He will keep performing and pumping out the music regardless of how the dust settles with all of this.

[Edited 6/24/14 15:34pm]

BartVanHemelen said:

No he doesn't. Rave wasn't released when he wanted it, for instance. It's clear the 3EG record wasn't released when he wanted it. The Kobalt doal hasn't resulted in anything and I bet that's not his choice.

Bart, you know damn well he could release any album when he wants to at this point. It would just be at his own expense, and that is all that is holding him back....oh wait, Prince is batshit crazy, so that's all that is really holding him back. There is little expense in recording and releasing an album. The physical cds would cost a bit, since he'd probably over estimate how many he would sell, but he could if he really wanted to. A friend of mine has a band, and he's broke, and got 10,000 cds pressed up for his shows. Prince could easily put up a cheap website with download links for full albums. You know for sure he can put up a cheap website.

i think he should communicate the process ...wasnt he trying to teach youngins how not to let rec cos. get over on you....he should say what the delay is and what hes trying to do

luvsexy4all said:

i think he should communicate the process ...wasnt he trying to teach youngins how not to let rec cos. get over on you....he should say what the delay is and what hes trying to do

You expect straight talk from prince? Really?

SoulAlive said:

Am I the only fan who doesn't really care if Prince releases a new album or not? I just want the remasters of the old albums

RodeoSchro said:

LMAO at this.

Prince records what he wants, when he wants. He releases it however he wants.

He owns his masters.

.

I'm guessing you didn't actually read the article?

In it, Prince complains a lot about how he has music ready to release but can't get it out. It also mentions he hasn't released an album in the US since Lotusflower. So, you think he wrote and recorded 20ten specifically for some European countries?

.

He doesn't own his masters - not the ones WB owns. Which happens to be a large chunk of his catalogue, encompassing all of his biggest commercial successes.

.

No one is saying he has ruined his career. What I think people are saying is that he has caused a large percentage of his fanbase to become disillusioned with his actions; by constantly saying he is going to do something and never following through, he has damaged his fanbase to the point where we still don't have a lot of faith in what will come from these 'remasters'. Me, personally, I still have love and respect for the guy in every way. But I can also appreciate how crazy the man is - I mean, we're talking about a guy who claimed 4 years ago that "The internet is completely over" and also releases songs insulting his fans. It is hilarious

.

Besides, Prince has tried it his way for almost 20 years and quite frankly it hasn't worked. Especially not from a business point of view.

That's not opinion - it is fact. Do I like his modern music? For sure. But some of it is almost impossible to attain legally.

stillwaiting said:

Bart, you know damn well he could release any album when he wants to at this point.

No, he can't. Right now the WB deal is preventing him from doing so.

Also, I pointed out several instances where Prince couldn't do what he wanted to when he wanted to. In fact, that's true for almost every "independent" release of his.

If he was so sure/proud of the 3EG record, why isn't it out? The same can be said about so many abandoned projects of the past 15+ years. Why does he require a deal that pays him lotsa money upfront? Why hasn't he set up a system that allows him to do what he wants to do when he wants to do it? Why do we keep getting these interviews with him bitching about companies not doing things when/how he wanted things to go?

Hell, we're talking about a man who cannot manage to maintain anything. How much of his post-WB back catalogue can be obtained easily + legally? Hell, how much of his output of the past 18 months can? How many YouTube videos have come and gone? Nearly two dozen. Almost everything sold via 3rdEyeGirl.com: deleted.

Sure, printing up CDs is easy. Selling digital music: ditto. Yet it isn't happening, now is it? And when it was happening, it failed on a massive scale. CB was in shops before it arrived in the homes of people who had pre-ordered it months earlier. LotusFlow3r.com was abandoned in weeks, yet this sham was kept alive for nearly a year -- and only then we learned what had really happened.

I was saying the "printing up a bunch of CDs is easy and cheap" thing back in the late 1990s, and yet somehow each and every time Prince has partnered with major labels or companies like Target or newspaper publishers. Oh yes, and a couple of small independent labels who were in way over their head. Remember the single that got licensed to some third rate rap label that then released it and added a couple of bonus tracks? Yeah, that was a great idea, wasn't it?

BartVanHemelen said:

RodeoSchro said:

LMAO at this.

Prince records what he wants, when he wants. He releases it however he wants.

No he doesn't. Rave wasn't released when he wanted it, for instance. It's clear the 3EG record wasn't released when he wanted it. The Kobalt doal hasn't resulted in anything and I bet that's not his choice.

He owns his masters.

No he doesn't. He'll get those one at a time when WB gets a shot at releasing a remastered version first. And I bet there's a significant period before he can do something with a master after he gets it.

Bart u know well that he does now own all of them. That he licenced them exclusively to WB is another thing entirely but he owns them, he just can't do anything with them outside of WB for the time being.

Has anyone got a link to the actual press release?

starguitar said:

RodeoSchro said:

LMAO at this.

Prince records what he wants, when he wants. He releases it however he wants.

He owns his masters.

.

I'm guessing you didn't actually read the article?

In it, Prince complains a lot about how he has music ready to release but can't get it out. It also mentions he hasn't released an album in the US since Lotusflower. So, you think he wrote and recorded 20ten specifically for some European countries?

.

He doesn't own his masters - not the ones WB owns. Which happens to be a large chunk of his catalogue, encompassing all of his biggest commercial successes.

.

No one is saying he has ruined his career. What I think people are saying is that he has caused a large percentage of his fanbase to become disillusioned with his actions; by constantly saying he is going to do something and never following through, he has damaged his fanbase to the point where we still don't have a lot of faith in what will come from these 'remasters'. Me, personally, I still have love and respect for the guy in every way. But I can also appreciate how crazy the man is - I mean, we're talking about a guy who claimed 4 years ago that "The internet is completely over" and also releases songs insulting his fans. It is hilarious

.

Besides, Prince has tried it his way for almost 20 years and quite frankly it hasn't worked. Especially not from a business point of view.

That's not opinion - it is fact. Do I like his modern music? For sure. But some of it is almost impossible to attain legally.

Sure I read it. My comments were directed to the posters who were wailing about how Prince hasn't done this, or has screwed up that.

I look at the big picture: In 35 years of following Prince, I've accumulated days and days worth of music. I have hours of his movies and concert videos. I've seen him live more than a dozen times. I've seen hours and hours of his interviews and performances on TV.

Would I like more? Sure, who wouldn't! I'd love for Prince to come back to Houston. He's played nearly 40 concerts in England since the last time he played in Houston. But I'm not his manager and I have no control over where he goes.

Would I like albums? Yeah, sure. But Prince has released hours of music in the last couple years, and a lot of it has been free. Who can complain about that?

I guess I'm not changing any minds, but the fact to me is that Prince will do what Prince wants to do, whenever Prince wants to do it. The best thing is to anticipate nothing, and then when something comes, it's a pleasant surprise.

Fans come on this site after every album/CD release and say that Prince should take a break and come back with something great or some similar shit. Well guess what bitches? He took a break!!!

databank said:

peedub said:

i kinda gotta agree....dude needs to embrace his icon status and just record and release, knowing he's got guaranteed sales. why is he still talking about record companies and radio? that shit's irrelevant, especially to his career.

I agree with Bart and I'll add that it's 's paradox since 1985. The guy wants to b a major superstar on top of the charts and at the same time wants 2 be an independent artist, wants recognition by the masses and at the same time underground cult status, and somehow has always been under the illusion that he can b both with the same things when it actually takes different products. U can make Madhouse or The Black Album but u won't sell many copies or u can make D&P or Batman and sell millions but u can't expect a triple Crystal Ball album being released under the name Camille selling as much as Purple Rain, or an ego-trip without a melody like My Name Is Prince to score as much as Cream. In the early 00's I thought had somewhat solved that dilemma by releasing some more experimental albums (TRC, NEWS, Xpectation, C-Note, ONA...) either thru small indy labels or by himself and giving more commercial records (Rave, Musicology, 3121, Planet Earth) to majors, I really expected him 2 go back and forth and b happy with it. It could have went on like that and worked but IDK what the hell happened, all of a sudden he started releasing albums thru newspapers and record stores chains, he created a highly expensive website and gave up on us after 2 weeks, running away with our money, and then nothing but isolated tracks and snippets online as in a bigger and bigger rejection of the whole music industry both indy, self-distributed and majors altogether. It's like he's been on a semi-strike for several years but what's the point, where is this going, and as Bart says who is he hurting save himself? has achieved cult status BOTH as a mainstream superstar and as a daring independant artist, he could just stop bothering with this, release his stuff thru the internet or small labels and every once in a while make a big coup with a major. But no, it's like he's denying the success he's achieved, like he's still stuck in the same loop he's been stuck in since 1985, the same contradictions, and it's like instead of solving those contradictions he's been blaming the world 4 not being able 2 resolve his inner conflicts. I don't know what he wants: he wants freedom and majors, he wants 2 b underground and #1 on the charts, all at the same time, all with the same records, this is absurd and who's getting frustrated in the process: us, the hardcore fanbase!

I agree with the bolded part especially. There is a very fine line between underground artistry and mainstream commercial success, and only very few are able to walk it succesfully. Prince did for a few years in the 80's, but ever since the late 80's /early 90's he has had trouble walking that line. That was when he started adopting new trends like rap in his music and deliberately started to water down the music in the hope of new hits.

-

He has been chasing mainstream success for a long time now, with very little success. The albums often became formulaic, with the songs sounding like watered down versions of earlier tunes. And the lyrics have become worse and worse, especially since he became a JW he had trouble finding interesting and compelling (for the mainstream) subjects to write about.

-

In my opinion he should either hire competent (non-sycophant!) people that can help him make chart tailored pop music, if mainstream success is what he is craving for. Or just stop chasing hit success altogether and focus on making cohesive artistic statements. If he puts his heart and soul into his music again, he might even accidently develop something that would be interesting for the masses. If not, then at least the devote hardcore fans will have something interesting to listen to.

HonestMan13 said:

Fans come on this site after every album/CD release and say that Prince should take a break and come back with something great or some similar shit. Well guess what bitches? He took a break!!!

Not true really, we have been fed nuggets of songs throughout the last couple of years, most of them haven't been great at all. No signs of something great coming up.

funkaholic1972 said:

HonestMan13 said:

Fans come on this site after every album/CD release and say that Prince should take a break and come back with something great or some similar shit. Well guess what bitches? He took a break!!!

Not true really, we have been fed nuggets of songs throughout the last couple of years, most of them haven't been great at all. No signs of something great coming up.

Groovy Potential is a great track.

ludwig said:

funkaholic1972 said:

Not true really, we have been fed nuggets of songs throughout the last couple of years, most of them haven't been great at all. No signs of something great coming up.

Groovy Potential is a great track.

Agreed, that one was pretty good and I would not mind seeing that one appear on a new Prince album. But in general I didn't like many of the new tunes released/showcased in the past few years.

RodeoSchro said:

Quit listening to that bootlegger with a 20-year grudge against a man he's never met, and just enjoy the Prince ride.

Really?!?

Hater would be a more appropriate label than bootlegger, no?

RodeoSchro said:

Last but not least, do NOT listen to a bootlegger with a 20-year-long grudge against a man that he's never met. Yes, I am talking about Bart VanHemlen.

Unless you know something the rest of us don't, and can back it up, I would recommend you not make the leap and label anyone a bootlegger for hating on Prince.

Mods?!? Is this cool?

[Edited 6/25/14 8:05am]

HonestMan13 said:

Fans come on this site after every album/CD release and say that Prince should take a break and come back with something great or some similar shit. Well guess what bitches? He took a break!!!

lol I said the same let him take a break,

I know Warner's made Prince a star. Let's face, without their connections and influence, (and cash backing) Prince would not be the name he is today. They were a part.

The sad thing about Prince and his separation troubles, and I do honor him for his efforts, his want in change is very valid, is that we have seen what kind of a powerful beast a company like Warner's is.

I think the system is even too big for a name like Prince to conquer. But I do commend his David and Goliath attitude.

(Perhaps if he wrote a hit song again, that would have been the perfect stone.)

so according to Bart, Prince entered into a contract with WB again and THEY get to decide when he releases something? where did this come from?

databank said:

Bart u know well that he does now own all of them.

I bet he doesn't. I bet the contract is that P will get the rights to an album after a remaster has been released. I see no reason why WB would give up rights to albums now when they wouldn't be in scope until a decade from now.