Rebeljuice said:

None of us really know what kind of contract WB and Prince signed back then. But from my POV it seems likely that WB do own anything that Prince recorded during the period of the contract with them. Whether it was released or not. Many companies offer employee contracts where the company owns any intellectual property created by the employee during company time, and in some cases, during the entire period of employment. Maybe thats why Prince has never given us much vault material over the years.

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Anyway, whatever the truth is, Prince is now back in bed with WB. So lets see what they come up with. "Met her in a hotel lobby browsing through a magazine" just aint gonna cut it! But I highly doubt anything will be censored like that.

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I doubt Prince really cares that much about the language contained in his past work, or the sexual content. He still makes songs about fucking he just doesnt say "fuck" on record anymore. Im sure when he stubs his toe he still shouts "fuck!". And Ive no doubt he still likes to fuck. But I do worry a bit about the religious stuff. It will be interesting to see, if it happens, what will happen to the song "The Cross" on SOTT. That's not a case of simply censoring bad language. It is more fundamental to the nonsense JW belief system.

What in the world can b wrong with The Cross from a JW's POV??? It's a ultra-religious song.

No, because The Christ died on a Stauros...

Pentacle said:

No, because The Christ died on a Stauros...

I thought he dies at a KFC because of a chicken bone?

prince thinks worshiping the cross is like wearing a gun around your neck if jesus had been killed with a gun .. thats why he changed it to 'the chist' .. i get it but i still find the use of the cross to resonate more in meaning .. its more of a pure sentiment at the time of its writing as opposed to intellecutalizing a concept and deflating its meaning .. i am going to be sad when they remaster lets pretend we're married .. how can prince release that with his new found self censorship .. this remaster project will either be a huge collective sigh of releif or another nail in the coffin of prince career and artistic merit

TrevorAyer said:

prince thinks worshiping the cross is like wearing a gun around your neck if jesus had been killed with a gun .. thats why he changed it to 'the chist' .. i get it but i still find the use of the cross to resonate more in meaning .. its more of a pure sentiment at the time of its writing as opposed to intellecutalizing a concept and deflating its meaning .. i am going to be sad when they remaster lets pretend we're married .. how can prince release that with his new found self censorship .. this remaster project will either be a huge collective sigh of releif or another nail in the coffin of prince career and artistic merit

I wanna... I wanna.... I wanna... feed you.

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I sincerely wanna feed the taste into your mouth.

databank said:

Prince obtained WB's permission ("courtesy of" on the back cover) for TMBGITW

More like: WB allowed him to go the independent route but FORBADE him to use any WB company.

BartVanHemelen said:

databank said:

Prince obtained WB's permission ("courtesy of" on the back cover) for TMBGITW

More like: WB allowed him to go the independent route but FORBADE him to use any WB company.

Huh? I don't understand.

databank said:

BartVanHemelen said:

More like: WB allowed him to go the independent route but FORBADE him to use any WB company.

Huh? I don't understand.

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P wanted to release TMBGITW, but WB didn't care for it after research told them it wouldn't be a hit, so P begged WB for a one-time only experiment where he'd release the thing independently, which they allowed but with the condition that P could not use any WB-related company. Which is why he went with the small company Bellmark, which had previously only really scored with "Whoomp! (There It Is)". And why he went with Edel in Europe.

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P was also only allowed to release one single song, hence the kazillion "remixes" of TMBGITW which were sometimes very different, e.g. "Beautiful" being more or less a copy of "New World" which he wanted to use as the B-Side but was refused by WB.

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(Rumor is it that tens of thousands of copies of TMBGITW occupied a warehouse in Minneapolis for years, the result of ringers buying copies in record shops to get the single to chart and score P a hit so he could throw that in WB's faces.)

From Prince: Inside the Music and the Masks by Ronin Ro as found on Google Books (pages 223-234):

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[img:$uid]http://i.imgur..../img:$uid]

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[img:$uid]http://i.imgur..../img:$uid]

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[img:$uid]http://i.imgur..../img:$uid]

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[img:$uid]http://i.imgur..../img:$uid]

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[img:$uid]http://i.imgur..../img:$uid]

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(pages missing)

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[img:$uid]http://i.imgur..../img:$uid]

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[img:$uid]http://i.imgur..../img:$uid]

BartVanHemelen said:

From Prince: Inside the Music and the Masks by Ronin Ro as found on Google Books (pages 223-234):

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[img:$uid]http://i.imgur..../img:$uid]

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(page missing)

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[img:$uid]http://i.imgur..../img:$uid]

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[img:$uid]http://i.imgur..../img:$uid]

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[img:$uid]http://i.imgur..../img:$uid]

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[img:$uid]http://i.imgur..../img:$uid]

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[img:$uid]http://i.imgur..../img:$uid]

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(pages missing)

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[img:$uid]http://i.imgur..../img:$uid]

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[img:$uid]http://i.imgur..../img:$uid]

Thanks

I am puzzled for I have never read that info before, anywhere, neither on Scififilmnerd's awesome articles about the whole 93-95 era nor in Alex Hahn's Possessed (a well documented book for one thing, but also a book whose writer was desperate to shoot Prince down every possible way, so I doubt he'd have neglected that info had he been aware of it). ALL the sources I've ever read so far always claimed that P asked WB for permission to release his song independently from the beginning.

I haven't read Ro's book yet but I guess eventually I will. Nonetheless I've read here on several occasions that it contains a certain amount of factual mistakes and approximations, some of them gross. I have to admit that the samples u've posted here sound a bit messy to me in terms of chronology and are missing some rather important events in the chain of events.

So in the end my point isn't, of course, to say that Ronin Ro (what a funny name!) is lying or mistaken here but that unless other reliable sources back up his claims I'll remain a bit skeptical about this "WB declines to release TMBGITW" theory. Now maybe there ARE other sources and I've missed them?

As for the theory of P buying his own records IDK about that being more than a rumor. What I do know, on the other end, is that at least in France the song was played to death by radios and TV stations, and that MTV Europe was airing the video in a loop as well. Now WHO bought that single? IDK, certainly not my teenage friends who were into more "rebellious" music than that, but Céline Dion was selling millions of cheesy ballads at the time, so maybe her audience bought TMBGITW

BartVanHemelen said:

(Rumor is it that tens of thousands of copies of TMBGITW occupied a warehouse in Minneapolis for years, the result of ringers buying copies in record shops to get the single to chart and score P a hit so he could throw that in WB's faces.)

Never heard about that rumor, Bart. Source?

databank said:

As for the theory of P buying his own records IDK about that being more than a rumor. What I do know, on the other end, is that at least in France the song was played to death by radios and TV stations, and that MTV Europe was airing the video in a loop as well. Now WHO bought that single? IDK, certainly not my teenage friends who were into more "rebellious" music than that, but Céline Dion was selling millions of cheesy ballads at the time, so maybe her audience bought TMBGITW

I was working at a record store at the time TMBGITW was released. The single sold well to people who weren't necessarily Prince fans buying every release, but also to the people just into the current big pop love song. This was short lived though, as the maxi didn't do as well. I think the store ended up with a stack of unsold 12" & CDs of TBE.

This was in the days where all anyone came in to the store to buy was Seattle grunge, so, it wasn't a total surprise to me...

James Brown, Funkadelic, KISS, Johnny Cash and most recently Def Leppard re-recorded their songs or even entire albums...

see also here:

http://www.legendaryrocki...sic-songs/

http://www.theguardian.co...g-old-hits

dolphin said:

James Brown, Funkadelic, KISS, Johnny Cash and most recently Def Leppard re-recorded their songs or even entire albums...

see also here:

http://www.legendaryrocki...sic-songs/

http://www.theguardian.co...g-old-hits

Great articles, especially the first one. Thanks for the links!!

databank said:

I haven't read Ro's book yet but I guess eventually I will. Nonetheless I've read here on several occasions that it contains a certain amount of factual mistakes and approximations, some of them gross. I have to admit that the samples u've posted here sound a bit messy to me in terms of chronology and are missing some rather important events in the chain of events.

Oh, for sure. I'm not saying his is the definite source.

So in the end my point isn't, of course, to say that Ronin Ro (what a funny name!) is lying or mistaken here but that unless other reliable sources back up his claims I'll remain a bit skeptical about this "WB declines to release TMBGITW" theory. Now maybe there ARE other sources and I've missed them?

I recall this from rumors at the time. Record companies used to do (and probably still do) market research on the feasibility of songs becoming hits, so it doesn't seem impossible that WB didn't care to release it.

As for the theory of P buying his own records IDK about that being more than a rumor. What I do know, on the other end, is that at least in France the song was played to death by radios and TV stations, and that MTV Europe was airing the video in a loop as well.

Don't forget that Europe only got TMBGITW after it already was a hit in the US. And yeah, it was all over radio and TV.

djThunderfunk said:

BartVanHemelen said:

(Rumor is it that tens of thousands of copies of TMBGITW occupied a warehouse in Minneapolis for years, the result of ringers buying copies in record shops to get the single to chart and score P a hit so he could throw that in WB's faces.)

Never heard about that rumor, Bart. Source?

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I think T on a.m.p, but I'm not 100% sure.

BartVanHemelen said:

djThunderfunk said:

Never heard about that rumor, Bart. Source?

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I think T on a.m.p, but I'm not 100% sure.

Very interesting...

BartVanHemelen said:

databank said:

I haven't read Ro's book yet but I guess eventually I will. Nonetheless I've read here on several occasions that it contains a certain amount of factual mistakes and approximations, some of them gross. I have to admit that the samples u've posted here sound a bit messy to me in terms of chronology and are missing some rather important events in the chain of events.

Oh, for sure. I'm not saying his is the definite source.

I recall this from rumors at the time. Record companies used to do (and probably still do) market research on the feasibility of songs becoming hits, so it doesn't seem impossible that WB didn't care to release it.

As for the theory of P buying his own records IDK about that being more than a rumor. What I do know, on the other end, is that at least in France the song was played to death by radios and TV stations, and that MTV Europe was airing the video in a loop as well.

Don't forget that Europe only got TMBGITW after it already was a hit in the US. And yeah, it was all over radio and TV.

They were definitely "test listenings" before releasing singles, I remember reading it several times at the time and yeah, the single was a bit late in Europe (I think my first copy was an import).

djThunderfunk said:

databank said:

As for the theory of P buying his own records IDK about that being more than a rumor. What I do know, on the other end, is that at least in France the song was played to death by radios and TV stations, and that MTV Europe was airing the video in a loop as well. Now WHO bought that single? IDK, certainly not my teenage friends who were into more "rebellious" music than that, but Céline Dion was selling millions of cheesy ballads at the time, so maybe her audience bought TMBGITW

I was working at a record store at the time TMBGITW was released. The single sold well to people who weren't necessarily Prince fans buying every release, but also to the people just into the current big pop love song. This was short lived though, as the maxi didn't do as well. I think the store ended up with a stack of unsold 12" & CDs of TBE.

This was in the days where all anyone came in to the store to buy was Seattle grunge, so, it wasn't a total surprise to me...

Clearly no one but fans gave a fuck about The Beautiful Experience and Staxowax maxis, what they bought was the basic single.

BartVanHemelen said:

djThunderfunk said:

Never heard about that rumor, Bart. Source?

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I think T on a.m.p, but I'm not 100% sure.

If it was indeed T it would be reliable I guess. Now if u're 100% sure it was him it remains doubtful. I remember an orger once here said that he personally knew people who sold the City Lights and Studio Nights tapes to bootlegger as direct intermediates for Prince who was trying to make quick cash outside of his WB contract. I don't remember who that orger was but if u ask me that was obvious BS.

databank said:

BartVanHemelen said:

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I think T on a.m.p, but I'm not 100% sure.

If it was indeed T it would be reliable I guess. Now if u're 100% sure it was him it remains doubtful.

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It's been 10+ years and unfortunately old amp is hard to research and T's posts included a "do not archive" header anyway. But AFAIK he is one of the few people who actually had access to such locations and/or connections to people in the know. This rumor is also mentioned on Pincevault, BTW.

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And it just makes sense. In retrospect TMBGITW becoming a hit is quite baffling, unless you factor in someone doing a jumpstart. Which also aligns with P's feelings about the record industry and radio at the time (bitching about payola etc).

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I remember an orger once here said that he personally knew people who sold the City Lights and Studio Nights tapes to bootlegger as direct intermediates for Prince who was trying to make quick cash outside of his WB contract. I don't remember who that orger was but if u ask me that was obvious BS.

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That is BS, for sure. Bootleggers just don't have that amount of cash, and it just goes against P's character. The rumored sources are far more likely.

BartVanHemelen said:

databank said:

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It's been 10+ years and unfortunately old amp is hard to research and T's posts included a "do not archive" header anyway. But AFAIK he is one of the few people who actually had access to such locations and/or connections to people in the know. This rumor is also mentioned on Pincevault, BTW.

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And it just makes sense. In retrospect TMBGITW becoming a hit is quite baffling, unless you factor in someone doing a jumpstart. Which also aligns with P's feelings about the record industry and radio at the time (bitching about payola etc).

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I remember an orger once here said that he personally knew people who sold the City Lights and Studio Nights tapes to bootlegger as direct intermediates for Prince who was trying to make quick cash outside of his WB contract. I don't remember who that orger was but if u ask me that was obvious BS.

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That is BS, for sure. Bootleggers just don't have that amount of cash, and it just goes against P's character. The rumored sources are far more likely.

Reportedly, majors also sometimes bought copies of singles to give 'em a push, so using the industry's methods to make a point against the industry isn't unthinkable indeed. I wonder where Pvault took the info from BTW, there's no source quoted

As for the bootlegs leaks by it's unfortunately one of the most enduring bullshitty urban legends in the fans community