He should go purple skinned. They could probably do that now. Go lovely with his new look too. Yeah, come out singin purple skin *to the tune of bacon skin*, nice yellow trousers and that afro...

Get on Pixie!

Fonkyman said:

He should go purple skinned. They could probably do that now. Go lovely with his new look too. Yeah, come out singin purple skin *to the tune of bacon skin*, nice yellow trousers and that afro...

Get on Pixie!

fony fony

my make up everything is possible!

I just don't think that Prince is impressed by Andy, this is IMO, a way of showing his support to someone who's got difficulty to comb the hair lol lol lol

Beside the "joke", whenever he seems to get along with a girl, he also changes his hair style..

It's kind of the way he finds his balance, all is a matter of "equilibrium" according to me, Gemini's style

1725topp said:

Not to be adversarial, but the "matching Andy Allo's hair" theory seems to raise about three questions. One, Prince had a similar 'fro style early during the Musicology era, especially for the "Musicology" video. So, who was he trying to match then? Secondly, in the pictures provided to show that Prince was matching the women in the band, how do we not know that he hadn’t developed his look and then contoured them to match him? Additionally, it could be said that Prince seems to equate effeminacy with being spiritual/metaphysical and the more spiritual/metaphysical an album the more effeminate the look. So, again, it seems that Prince's look is dictated by his ideology, and then the band members are styled or contoured accordingly. Thirdly, yes, each individual has their own tastes and has a right to have their own tastes, but it would be disingenuous not to realize and acknowledge that individuals come from particular cultures that have particular views or perceptions of life that greatly influence the tastes and sensibilities of the individual. And, that is not to say that individuals raised in a particular culture cannot learn to be more inclusive of other cultural sensibilities and perceptions. So, not everyone raised in an Eurocentric or Afrocentric culture thinks that those are the only worthy and valuable sensibilities. However, many of the posts did seem to be driven by Eurocentric sensibilities regarding hair. Of course, I don't know what's in anyone's head and heart but mine so I can only evaluate the language. Further, the commonly used notion of "we just like what we like," to steal from a cereal commercial, is often a misnomer because tastes, likes, and dislikes are partly rooted in one’s culture of origin and partly influenced by how the individual exposes oneself to various cultures or limits one's exposure to various cultures either to find value in other cultural sensibilities or to dismiss or minimize or marginalize other cultural sensibilities. So, yes, a lot of people seemed not to like Princes hair on The View, but the question remains what are the factors that lead to the like or dislike of it. And judging from the language (tone and word choice coding), race or cultural sensibilities played a major factor--for some—in determining whether they liked his hair or not. I have found that when people say they like or don’t like something and don’t have a reason for liking or disliking it they are either being disingenuous or they actually have never taken the time for self-evaluation to realize what drives their aesthetic tastes. Yet, in either case, where race is concerned, naivety or ignorance (limited knowledge) can cause one to perpetuate white supremacy or self-hatred even if it isn’t their desire to do so.

I get where you're coming from. As a Black woman myself, I see your points played out daily, especially in a corporate environment. I just submit to you that sometimes it is just not that deep. Sometimes a person's hair is just jacked up at the moment, regardless of anyone's race. This was the case for Prince on The View (at least for me).

Regarding your response to the pics I posted, right above the pics, I stated, "Actually, I don't know if he's matching them or if he's just creating a total packaged look. Now in the case with Andy, she already had her hair style before linking up to him. But I think like Excited pointed out, Prince was likely impressed with Andy's hair and wanted to match his with hers to create that packaged look." So I do think that you are right in that Prince is looking to create an overall image. He has done this in just about every era of his career.

Now, here's a pic of Prince from last night in Vegas. His afro looked fabulous.

'Fro looked fab, and I am glad to see, he wore more blusher, too.

love,

Spirit

vainandy said:

2elijah said:

Apparently, the overly butch shit hoppers didn't get that memo because they're what have dominated the charts for almost 20 years. Although, most of them are a bunch of closet trade. I agree that in the 1980s, black male entertainers had to tone it down to get onto white radio but I wouldn't say they had to be feminine. They had to be "safe". There's nothing feminine about Lionel Richie, Smokey Robinson, The Four Tops, and Kool and The Gang, all of which had hits on pop radio in the early 1980s but they were "safe" with a clean cut image and didn't really funk it up too much. While over on R&B radio, the only thing feminine over there was Prince. Everyone else was pretty much wearing matching costumes and space type outfits. Space was a big theme back then. Rick James had more of a freaky look more than a gay look, though I still think he secretly lusted for some of that pretty little Prince.

Actually, the gay look was going on much more heavily with white artists back then moreso than black artists. All those new wavers of the early 1980s had the makeup and wild hair and those metal hair bands looked like full fledged drag queens, especially Motley Crue.

.

.

.

[Edited 9/22/12 16:05pm]

Hey Vainandy, still love ya! I love that we could have conversations, disagree or agree and still maintain mature respect for one another without resulting in calling each other names. Much respect to 1725Stopp as well.

Vain, I have to say that you had me laughing about the references to Black groups back in the 70s wearing space outfits. LOL, because you're so right, and I used to love the outfiits many of them wore. They made sure their group members were in sync with the costumes and all. I miss those days.

You are also correct though about many of the White rock artists who presented a feminine look like Alice Cooper, Ozzy Osbourne, and a few others, that sported an effiminate look. Terrence Trent D'Arby aka Sananda Maitreya, well to me, he was just the kind of male that when he was younger, his face was feminine like, long eyelashes, no makeup, but had a very, distinct and pretty face.

[Edited 9/23/12 9:10am]

PurpleChi said:

I get where you're coming from. As a Black woman myself, I see your points played out daily, especially in a corporate environment. I just submit to you that sometimes it is just not that deep. Sometimes a person's hair is just jacked up at the moment, regardless of anyone's race. This was the case for Prince on The View (at least for me).

Regarding your response to the pics I posted, right above the pics, I stated, "Actually, I don't know if he's matching them or if he's just creating a total packaged look. Now in the case with Andy, she already had her hair style before linking up to him. But I think like Excited pointed out, Prince was likely impressed with Andy's hair and wanted to match his with hers to create that packaged look." So I do think that you are right in that Prince is looking to create an overall image. He has done this in just about every era of his career.

Now, here's a pic of Prince from last night in Vegas. His afro looked fabulous.

After reading your posts on another thread and your clarification, I understand that you were not objecting to the Afro, but that it wasn't shaped well. And, your particular dislike of his 'fro on The View is not about cultural indexes or race history and more about the execution of the 'fro. I currently wear a baby 'fro, and if I sit somewhere for a period of time, especially on a couch or something, I become conscious of whether the back of my 'fro has become flattened. So I can understand from where you were coming. (Still I think that some people, like Cornel West, purposely wear a 'fro that is not pefectly rounded or not shapped in the normal manner as a socio-political statement. I don't think that is the case with Prince, but sometimes people will even use a misshaped 'fro as a way to denouce or marginalized African culture.) Because of this, I do think that others were objecting to the 'fro for cultural biases based on their language. So much racially charged stuff is said on this site, and combined with the notion that some will even use the notion of a misshaped afro or a poorly shaped afro as an excuse to vent about anything that makes Prince appear more Afrocentric that I think that it is always good to raise questions for clarification, especially when so much of what Prince does and so much of why so many people gravitate to or from Prince is based on racial and gender issues. So, while I yield to your clarification, I still think that others were making racial statements.

*

And, yes, you did say that you were not sure if he was trying to match the women in the presented pictures. However, I just wanted to also show that Prince had embraced this style before, and people have articulated similar negative comments. And, yes, his 'fro does look fabulous in the pic with Blige, but I can't take my eyes off that guitar.

vitriol said:

Bohemian67 said:

Gee Vitriol, every time I get excited, thinking you're going to launch into a fully fledged, Jonathan Swift Modest Proposal satire, and then you just go and throw a one-liner. (?)

More than enough for people like you.

What did you expect? Want more? So, pay for it!

You little hooker Here you go then ....and don't forget to Prince a new supply of blusher! I am sure you can afford it now, whether you like his circus or not.

..

1725topp said:

PurpleChi said:

I get where you're coming from. As a Black woman myself, I see your points played out daily, especially in a corporate environment. I just submit to you that sometimes it is just not that deep. Sometimes a person's hair is just jacked up at the moment, regardless of anyone's race. This was the case for Prince on The View (at least for me).

Regarding your response to the pics I posted, right above the pics, I stated, "Actually, I don't know if he's matching them or if he's just creating a total packaged look. Now in the case with Andy, she already had her hair style before linking up to him. But I think like Excited pointed out, Prince was likely impressed with Andy's hair and wanted to match his with hers to create that packaged look." So I do think that you are right in that Prince is looking to create an overall image. He has done this in just about every era of his career.

Now, here's a pic of Prince from last night in Vegas. His afro looked fabulous.

After reading your posts on another thread and your clarification, I understand that you were not objecting to the Afro, but that it wasn't shaped well. And, your particular dislike of his 'fro on The View is not about cultural indexes or race history and more about the execution of the 'fro. I currently wear a baby 'fro, and if I sit somewhere for a period of time, especially on a couch or something, I become conscious of whether the back of my 'fro has become flattened. So I can understand from where you were coming. (Still I think that some people, like Cornel West, purposely wear a 'fro that is not pefectly rounded or not shapped in the normal manner as a socio-political statement. I don't think that is the case with Prince, but sometimes people will even use a misshaped 'fro as a way to denouce or marginalized African culture.) Because of this, I do think that others were objecting to the 'fro for cultural biases based on their language. So much racially charged stuff is said on this site, and combined with the notion that some will even use the notion of a misshaped afro or a poorly shaped afro as an excuse to vent about anything that makes Prince appear more Afrocentric that I think that it is always good to raise questions for clarification, especially when so much of what Prince does and so much of why so many people gravitate to or from Prince is based on racial and gender issues. So, while I yield to your clarification, I still think that others were making racial statements.

*

And, yes, you did say that you were not sure if he was trying to match the women in the presented pictures. However, I just wanted to also show that Prince had embraced this style before, and people have articulated similar negative comments. And, yes, his 'fro does look fabulous in the pic with Blige, but I can't take my eyes off that guitar.

do we have pictures of ancient or current african cultures where the ethnic groups where afros

and yes I love the guitar too

What a funny question. Prince is a black man, so what difference does it make if he goes white or black? He'll be black regardless. Now if he goes african as if he were from Cameroon or Nigeria, this could obviously alienate some afro americans I guess. At the moment I don't see it, but with the influences he's having around, I can predict a little of the outcome.

Somebody posted something here last week who said his boss (black dude in his 50s...thought of Prince "....hmmm.. a little suspect"...LOL

[Edited 9/23/12 12:08pm]

Now although there's many Black African ethnic groups, of various complexions and cultures, here's a few pics of some Africans with afros. By the way most Black and some mixed Africans share many of the same 'various' textures (key word 'various') of hair just like Black Americans, regardless of our cultural differences and geographic locations. In my community there are many African ethnic groups of various complexions/similar hair textures as Black Americans. Unless those Africans are in traditional dress, if one was standing next to a Black American, often times you would not know if one was born and raised in Africa or the other born in America, and identify as Black American.unless distinctive features stand out that one can connect to a specific African ethnic group. Afro hairdos have been around, whether close to the scalp or an inch or higher from the scalp, since ancient times. Nothing new really. I don't thing Prince or any other Black American musician/artist wearing an afro takes anything away from connecting with 'any' of his fans, because his air isn't his music. His natural hair is just simply hair he was born with.

An Oromo man

Fela Kuti with his baby afro

Other African men with their natural 'dos.

[Edited 9/23/12 12:30pm]

2elijah said:

Now although there's many Black African ethnic groups, of various complexions and cultures, here's a few pics of some Africans with afros. By the way most Black and some mixed Africans share many of the same 'various' textures (key word 'various') of hair just like Black Americans, regardless of our cultural differences and geographic locations. In my community there are many African ethnic groups of various complexions/similar hair textures as Black Americans. Unless those Africans are in traditional dress, if one was standing next to a Black American, often times you would not know if one was born and raised in Africa or the other born in America, and identify as Black American.unless distinctive features stand out that one can connect to a specific African ethnic group. Afro hairdos have been around, whether close to the scalp or an inch or higher from the scalp, since ancient times. Nothing new really. I don't thing Prince or any other Black American musician/artist wearing an afro takes anything away from connecting with 'any' of his fans, because his air isn't his music. His natural hair is just simply hair he was born with.

An Oromo man

Fela Kuti with his baby afro

Other African men with their natural 'dos.

[Edited 9/23/12 12:30pm]

Yeah I do remember a lot of Egyptian/Nubian images with afro like hair

Its interesting, (off topic ) a lot of women dont wear the afro some places men have lots of hair and women shaved

OldFriends4Sale said:

2elijah said:

Now although there's many Black African ethnic groups, of various complexions and cultures, here's a few pics of some Africans with afros. By the way most Black and some mixed Africans share many of the same 'various' textures (key word 'various') of hair just like Black Americans, regardless of our cultural differences and geographic locations. In my community there are many African ethnic groups of various complexions/similar hair textures as Black Americans. Unless those Africans are in traditional dress, if one was standing next to a Black American, often times you would not know if one was born and raised in Africa or the other born in America, and identify as Black American.unless distinctive features stand out that one can connect to a specific African ethnic group. Afro hairdos have been around, whether close to the scalp or an inch or higher from the scalp, since ancient times. Nothing new really. I don't thing Prince or any other Black American musician/artist wearing an afro takes anything away from connecting with 'any' of his fans, because his air isn't his music. His natural hair is just simply hair he was born with.

An Oromo man

Fela Kuti with his baby afro

Other African men with their natural 'dos.

[Edited 9/23/12 12:30pm]

Yeah I do remember a lot of Egyptian/Nubian images with afro like hair

Its interesting, (off topic ) a lot of women dont wear the afro some places men have lots of hair and women shaved

True. I guess it depends on the culture of a particular African ethnic group, especially those that stick to more traditional or ancient ways of their culture, but I'm noticing how many Africans who are now living in the states are becoming more 'Westernized' in hairstyles/fashion.

1725topp said:

2elijah said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Yeah I do remember a lot of Egyptian/Nubian images with afro like hair

Its interesting, (off topic ) a lot of women dont wear the afro some places men have lots of hair and women shaved

True. I guess it depends on the culture of a particular African ethnic group, especially those that stick to more traditional or ancient ways of their culture, but I'm noticing how many Africans who are now living in the states are becoming more 'Westernized' in hairstyles/fashion.

I see the same, i dont know the name of the group but its usually younger men very tall thin very dark sometimes it looks like they may have markings on their forehead. I see them dressed similar to Americans but I have yet to see any with hair styles other than the short cuts they prob wore in africa

Im in Canada alot and I noticed that alot Black and mixed Canadian females tend to not do alot as far as perming their hair if its kinky. But Canada has a different ideal of black people.

OldFriends4Sale said:

2elijah said:

True. I guess it depends on the culture of a particular African ethnic group, especially those that stick to more traditional or ancient ways of their culture, but I'm noticing how many Africans who are now living in the states are becoming more 'Westernized' in hairstyles/fashion.

I see the same, i dont know the name of the group but its usually younger men very tall thin very dark sometimes it looks like they may have markings on their forehead. I see them dressed similar to Americans but I have yet to see any with hair styles other than the short cuts they prob wore in africa

Im in Canada alot and I noticed that alot Black and mixed Canadian females tend to not do alot as far as perming their hair if its kinky. But Canada has a different ideal of black people.

Because each African ethnic group follow their own traditions, just like European, Asian, Native Americans, etc. African ethnic groups are varied in complexion as well.

I haven't been to Canada for years, but as far as Black or mixed females in the U.S. there are a multitude of Black women that are wearing their hair in its natural state, especially now that there are hair being created that work with their hair types/ 'varied' hair textures. Also, just to meniton many have also been wearing braided extensions to their natural hair, because they don't want to perm it. But for the past 5 years, many Black women who have gone natural, wear twists, twist=outs, dreds, braids, afros, and also some straighten their natural hair with non-perm methods, such as, with a hot comb/flat iron.

When you say 'kinky' textured hair, there are various textures of it. All Blacks don't have the same kinky-type textured hair. There are Blacks with kinky, kinky-wavy, kinky-curly, and some who actually have a fine-wavy texture, and it has nothing to with complexion. I think many who are not aware of the various hair textures of Blacks, regardless of their 'varied' complexions as a whole, tend to lump them as having the 'same' types of hair textures.

[Edited 9/23/12 16:47pm]

PurpleChi said:

1725topp said:

I get where you're coming from. As a Black woman myself, I see your points played out daily, especially in a corporate environment. I just submit to you that sometimes it is just not that deep. Sometimes a person's hair is just jacked up at the moment, regardless of anyone's race. This was the case for Prince on The View (at least for me).

Regarding your response to the pics I posted, right above the pics, I stated, "Actually, I don't know if he's matching them or if he's just creating a total packaged look. Now in the case with Andy, she already had her hair style before linking up to him. But I think like Excited pointed out, Prince was likely impressed with Andy's hair and wanted to match his with hers to create that packaged look." So I do think that you are right in that Prince is looking to create an overall image. He has done this in just about every era of his career.

Now, here's a pic of Prince from last night in Vegas. His afro looked fabulous.

Two questions: Isn't this the same outfit P had on under the jacket on The View? Also, what was Prince doing in Vegas?

2elijah said:

Now although there's many Black African ethnic groups, of various complexions and cultures, here's a few pics of some Africans with afros. By the way most Black and some mixed Africans share many of the same 'various' textures (key word 'various') of hair just like Black Americans, regardless of our cultural differences and geographic locations. In my community there are many African ethnic groups of various complexions/similar hair textures as Black Americans. Unless those Africans are in traditional dress, if one was standing next to a Black American, often times you would not know if one was born and raised in Africa or the other born in America, and identify as Black American.unless distinctive features stand out that one can connect to a specific African ethnic group. Afro hairdos have been around, whether close to the scalp or an inch or higher from the scalp, since ancient times. Nothing new really. I don't thing Prince or any other Black American musician/artist wearing an afro takes anything away from connecting with 'any' of his fans, because his air isn't his music. His natural hair is just simply hair he was born with.

2elijah, thanks for posting the pics of the variations of the 'fro on Black Africans. I'm especially glad that you included pics from ancient Egypt as most university scholars and Western media still will not acknowledge that the ancient Egyptians were Negroid peoples, mostly the descendants of the Nubians, but that's another discussion for another time.

*

And, Oldfriends4sale, you are right that many African women, living in the West, especially in America, straighten their hair. I often use it as a way to teach students or anywhere I may be lecturing that the psychological attack and oppression was not just an American or European act; it began in Africa with the colonization of the continent. Of course, it varied based on whether it was a French, British, or Dutch system--having people understand that there were variations in how they enslaved and oppressed Africans provides a better insight into the complexity of the issue as well as the varying and complex responses of African people living within those different systems.

*

So, thanks to both for insightful information.

Interesting that this thread about Prince's skin shade is still going on and the one on Prince's afro is suddenly missing... Are people more well behaved on this thread than the hair thread--out of curiosity?

what?

1725topp said:

2elijah said:

Now although there's many Black African ethnic groups, of various complexions and cultures, here's a few pics of some Africans with afros. By the way most Black and some mixed Africans share many of the same 'various' textures (key word 'various') of hair just like Black Americans, regardless of our cultural differences and geographic locations. In my community there are many African ethnic groups of various complexions/similar hair textures as Black Americans. Unless those Africans are in traditional dress, if one was standing next to a Black American, often times you would not know if one was born and raised in Africa or the other born in America, and identify as Black American.unless distinctive features stand out that one can connect to a specific African ethnic group. Afro hairdos have been around, whether close to the scalp or an inch or higher from the scalp, since ancient times. Nothing new really. I don't thing Prince or any other Black American musician/artist wearing an afro takes anything away from connecting with 'any' of his fans, because his air isn't his music. His natural hair is just simply hair he was born with.

2elijah, thanks for posting the pics of the variations of the 'fro on Black Africans. I'm especially glad that you included pics from ancient Egypt as most university scholars and Western media still will not acknowledge that the ancient Egyptians were Negroid peoples, mostly the descendants of the Nubians, but that's another discussion for another time.

*

And, Oldfriends4sale, you are right that many African women, living in the West, especially in America, straighten their hair. I often use it as a way to teach students or anywhere I may be lecturing that the psychological attack and oppression was not just an American or European act; it began in Africa with the colonization of the continent. Of course, it varied based on whether it was a French, British, or Dutch system--having people understand that there were variations in how they enslaved and oppressed Africans provides a better insight into the complexity of the issue as well as the varying and complex responses of African people living within those different systems.

*

So, thanks to both for insightful information.

No problem. Here's a few more I thought may interest you that I ran across. Looks like short, big afros were around for a long time, as well as braids. Interesting how Prince's afro hairdo sparked a conversation and questions.

Afro and braids - the side braids in young boys, in some ancient egyptian cultures signified some form of nobility. (Somehow I lost the link on this one or I would have provided it for you) Just found this one very interesting.

[Edited 9/24/12 8:15am]

2elijah said:

No problem. Here's a few more I thought may interest you that I ran across. Looks like short, big afros were around for a long time, as well as braids. Interesting how Prince's afro hairdo sparked a conversation and questions.

Afro and braids - the side braids in young boys, in some ancient egyptian cultures signified some form of nobility. (Somehow I lost the link on this one or I would have provided it for you) Just found this one very interesting.

Yeah, the 'fro has been the ultimate “on the go” style for centuries--pick, pat, and go. Even on the days when my 'fro is a bit misshaped, it's still funky, and I’m never late for where I need to be. Thanks again.

it don't matter if he's black or white

alphastreet said:

it don't matter if he's black or white

lol dont dont dont Prince is 'clear'

2elijah said:

1725topp said:

2elijah, thanks for posting the pics of the variations of the 'fro on Black Africans. I'm especially glad that you included pics from ancient Egypt as most university scholars and Western media still will not acknowledge that the ancient Egyptians were Negroid peoples, mostly the descendants of the Nubians, but that's another discussion for another time.

*

And, Oldfriends4sale, you are right that many African women, living in the West, especially in America, straighten their hair. I often use it as a way to teach students or anywhere I may be lecturing that the psychological attack and oppression was not just an American or European act; it began in Africa with the colonization of the continent. Of course, it varied based on whether it was a French, British, or Dutch system--having people understand that there were variations in how they enslaved and oppressed Africans provides a better insight into the complexity of the issue as well as the varying and complex responses of African people living within those different systems.

*

So, thanks to both for insightful information.

No problem. Here's a few more I thought may interest you that I ran across. Looks like short, big afros were around for a long time, as well as braids. Interesting how Prince's afro hairdo sparked a conversation and questions.

Afro and braids - the side braids in young boys, in some ancient egyptian cultures signified some form of nobility. (Somehow I lost the link on this one or I would have provided it for you) Just found this one very interesting.

[Edited 9/24/12 8:15am]

yes as far as egyptian male nobility, the shaved head with the long braid of hair on the side...

I'll look into but i believe there is a native american tribe that had something similar

and jewish/hebrew culture where the boys have short hair but the long twists on the sides

NOOOO PRINCE dont go bald except 4 the sign o the time braid noooo lol

OldFriends4Sale said:

2elijah said:

No problem. Here's a few more I thought may interest you that I ran across. Looks like short, big afros were around for a long time, as well as braids. Interesting how Prince's afro hairdo sparked a conversation and questions.

Afro and braids - the side braids in young boys, in some ancient egyptian cultures signified some form of nobility. (Somehow I lost the link on this one or I would have provided it for you) Just found this one very interesting.

[Edited 9/24/12 8:15am]

yes as far as egyptian male nobility, the shaved head with the long braid of hair on the side...

I'll look into but i believe there is a native american tribe that had something similar

and jewish/hebrew culture where the boys have short hair but the long twists on the sides

NOOOO PRINCE dont go bald except 4 the sign o the time braid noooo lol

Yes re: the shaved head/half short afro w/braid on side, first time I've heard of that being a sign of nobility in eyptian culture for young boys, although I've seen that style in ancient egyptian culture, just never knew its significance.

Also @ the last bolded part of your post.

[Edited 9/24/12 18:56pm]

2elijah said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I see the same, i dont know the name of the group but its usually younger men very tall thin very dark sometimes it looks like they may have markings on their forehead. I see them dressed similar to Americans but I have yet to see any with hair styles other than the short cuts they prob wore in africa

Im in Canada alot and I noticed that alot Black and mixed Canadian females tend to not do alot as far as perming their hair if its kinky. But Canada has a different ideal of black people.

Because each African ethnic group follow their own traditions, just like European, Asian, Native Americans, etc. African ethnic groups are varied in complexion as well.

I haven't been to Canada for years, but as far as Black or mixed females in the U.S. there are a multitude of Black women that are wearing their hair in its natural state, especially now that there are hair being created that work with their hair types/ 'varied' hair textures. Also, just to meniton many have also been wearing braided extensions to their natural hair, because they don't want to perm it. But for the past 5 years, many Black women who have gone natural, wear twists, twist=outs, dreds, braids, afros, and also some straighten their natural hair with non-perm methods, such as, with a hot comb/flat iron.

When you say 'kinky' textured hair, there are various textures of it. All Blacks don't have the same kinky-type textured hair. There are Blacks with kinky, kinky-wavy, kinky-curly, and some who actually have a fine-wavy texture, and it has nothing to with complexion. I think many who are not aware of the various hair textures of Blacks, regardless of their 'varied' complexions as a whole, tend to lump them as having the 'same' types of hair textures.

[Edited 9/23/12 16:47pm]

right, part of my issue 4 the 4 races limitations: red white black yellow, when there are 1000's of diverse ethnic groups across the world and overlaps where each continent and country meets

But because of Canadas different history african/black peoples are viewed differently which of course will give those african/black people a different view of themselves. From my experiences they are viewed very similar to those in europe as 'exotic' not a reminder of slavery heritage

Ive been a regular in Canada ie Toronto Montreal and surrounding areas since the late 70s and Ive always noticed women didn't do a lot of the thing american women were doing (to the same degree)

OldFriends4Sale said:

right, part of my issue 4 the 4 races limitations: red white black yellow, when there are 1000's of diverse ethnic groups across the world and overlaps where each continent and country meets

But because of Canadas different history african/black peoples are viewed differently which of course will give those african/black people a different view of themselves. From my experiences they are viewed very similar to those in europe as 'exotic' not a reminder of slavery heritage

Ive been a regular in Canada ie Toronto Montreal and surrounding areas since the late 70s and Ive always noticed women didn't do a lot of the thing american women were doing (to the same degree)

I agree that Canada's different history with African/black people creates a different relationship with and for African people, but I wonder (this is an actual question, not an assertion) if it is healthy for the psyche of African/black people not to understand the reasons why so many African/black people are in Canada, especially those who are there as a result of the journey of their ancestors who went to Canada to escape slavery or oppression.

*

And, accordingly, I've always found it interesting (for lack of a better term) how pristine Europe--especially England and France--appears when it comes to the African slave trade when they were some of the original slave traders. Of course, the fact that they stopped before America and that their countries--unlike America--were not built on the African slave trade (though they both profited greatly from it) these two counties get to thumb their noses at America for its past and continued treatment of Africans/African Americans. And while African Americans, especially artists, have been able to flee to Europe for better somewhat treatment I still see that treatment as somewhat objectified as he African American is usually seen as mostly exotic, which is not that same as being seen as human or equally human.

1725topp said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

right, part of my issue 4 the 4 races limitations: red white black yellow, when there are 1000's of diverse ethnic groups across the world and overlaps where each continent and country meets

But because of Canadas different history african/black peoples are viewed differently which of course will give those african/black people a different view of themselves. From my experiences they are viewed very similar to those in europe as 'exotic' not a reminder of slavery heritage

Ive been a regular in Canada ie Toronto Montreal and surrounding areas since the late 70s and Ive always noticed women didn't do a lot of the thing american women were doing (to the same degree)

I agree that Canada's different history with African/black people creates a different relationship with and for African people, but I wonder (this is an actual question, not an assertion) if it is healthy for the psyche of African/black people not to understand the reasons why so many African/black people are in Canada, especially those who are there as a result of the journey of their ancestors who went to Canada to escape slavery or oppression.

*

And, accordingly, I've always found it interesting (for lack of a better term) how pristine Europe--especially England and France--appears when it comes to the African slave trade when they were some of the original slave traders. Of course, the fact that they stopped before America and that their countries--unlike America--were not built on the African slave trade (though they both profited greatly from it) these two counties get to thumb their noses at America for its past and continued treatment of Africans/African Americans. And while African Americans, especially artists, have been able to flee to Europe for better somewhat treatment I still see that treatment as somewhat objectified as he African American is usually seen as mostly exotic, which is not that same as being seen as human or equally human.

1.) No its not healthy. Of course educatored & self-educated on the history of the descendants of the African slave in the states tend to know this. But I think only people who actually 'experience' being in Canada (and outside of the States 2 go along with your 2nd statement) understand who different it is. A good sized population in France as well that came from the states. But even though slavery didn't official exist in the union states, the fear of offers of reward of return of slaves caused many to continue on to Canada. Knowledge is power it could only help for AA descendant people to understand historically 'race relations' in the 2 countries.

2.) I would have to look at that from a wider view, ... what part of the world even African nations did not profit from slavery in general. And I think looking back on it all we know what we know, did England/France take it as such a 'human crime' even early America when slavery started prob didn't see it as what it became later. The idea of Black & White didn't even exist as we know it then. Not sugar coating anything, but while Africans were being inslaved by other Africans ethnic groups and Europeans, different Euro ethnic groups were at war with each other, the Irish were still enslaved to the English, many poor Europeans were almost on the same level as the African slaves as endentured servants who's family members could be sold off for payments. And American leaders were having a struggle with it early on this country being so founded on religion, the South evenmoreso people tried to justify slavery thru religion and created myths. I think that burned race issues into the country in a way it couldn't have in Europe or Canada

Not all of course, but (black)Jamaicans also thumb their noses at African-American because AA's were in slavery for a longer period of time than them. And everyone looks down on the Haitians.

I think the term exotic can be taken different ways. I've never associated that with 'not being seen as human/unequal' Any time a group of people who look alike have a different look come into their group that person/people can be seen as exotic. Vanity was described as 'exotic looking' I doubt it was saying she was less than human. And Asian(women) more than Africans have been described as Exotic looking. the 1st time I heard that word to describe me and some friends was maybe around 1986 in Toronto, about 10 of us male and female all obvious mutts, and it came from 3 women with strong English accents (they were on a sports team) Beautiful and Exotic were used, and they proceeded to have a conversation with us.

Now if the feeling of exotic = unequal, its probably in reference to mostly men using it toward women.

I've heard/read terms like Exotic worlds/islands, exotic foods etc so I really believe in most situations it's just describing something different and beautiful. So I am one that tends to see the glass half full. there are some AA who will take anything to create a further disenfranchised mindset or victimized mentality.

For some reason this conv made me think of this song by meshell ndegeocello

So tell me are you free?
While we campaign for every
Dead nigga blvd
So young motherfuckers can
Drive down it in your fancy cars
Free
You try to hold on to some africa of the past
One must remember
It's other africans
That helped enslave your ass
Cuz everybody's
Just trying to make that dollar
Remember what jesse used to say?
I am somebody
No longer do i blame others
For the way that we be
Cuz niggas need to redefine
What it means to be free

I can't even tell my brothers and sisters
That they're fine
This absence of beauty
In their heart and mind
Stopped breastfeeding the child
You put 'em on the cow
And now you wonder why they act wild
You see brown folks are the
Keepers of the earth
Unifiers of the soul and mind
Not these wannabe-gotti pimps and thugs
Wearing diamond watches
From african slave mines

OldFriends4Sale said:

1725topp said:

I agree that Canada's different history with African/black people creates a different relationship with and for African people, but I wonder (this is an actual question, not an assertion) if it is healthy for the psyche of African/black people not to understand the reasons why so many African/black people are in Canada, especially those who are there as a result of the journey of their ancestors who went to Canada to escape slavery or oppression.

*

And, accordingly, I've always found it interesting (for lack of a better term) how pristine Europe--especially England and France--appears when it comes to the African slave trade when they were some of the original slave traders. Of course, the fact that they stopped before America and that their countries--unlike America--were not built on the African slave trade (though they both profited greatly from it) these two counties get to thumb their noses at America for its past and continued treatment of Africans/African Americans. And while African Americans, especially artists, have been able to flee to Europe for better somewhat treatment I still see that treatment as somewhat objectified as he African American is usually seen as mostly exotic, which is not that same as being seen as human or equally human.

1.) No its not healthy. Of course educatored & self-educated on the history of the descendants of the African slave in the states tend to know this. But I think only people who actually 'experience' being in Canada (and outside of the States 2 go along with your 2nd statement) understand who different it is. A good sized population in France as well that came from the states. But even though slavery didn't official exist in the union states, the fear of offers of reward of return of slaves caused many to continue on to Canada. Knowledge is power it could only help for AA descendant people to understand historically 'race relations' in the 2 countries.

2.) I would have to look at that from a wider view, ... what part of the world even African nations did not profit from slavery in general. And I think looking back on it all we know what we know, did England/France take it as such a 'human crime' even early America when slavery started prob didn't see it as what it became later. The idea of Black & White didn't even exist as we know it then. Not sugar coating anything, but while Africans were being inslaved by other Africans ethnic groups and Europeans, different Euro ethnic groups were at war with each other, the Irish were still enslaved to the English, many poor Europeans were almost on the same level as the African slaves as endentured servants who's family members could be sold off for payments. And American leaders were having a struggle with it early on this country being so founded on religion, the South evenmoreso people tried to justify slavery thru religion and created myths. I think that burned race issues into the country in a way it couldn't have in Europe or Canada

Not all of course, but (black)Jamaicans also thumb their noses at African-American because AA's were in slavery for a longer period of time than them. And everyone looks down on the Haitians.

I think the term exotic can be taken different ways. I've never associated that with 'not being seen as human/unequal' Any time a group of people who look alike have a different look come into their group that person/people can be seen as exotic. Vanity was described as 'exotic looking' I doubt it was saying she was less than human. And Asian(women) more than Africans have been described as Exotic looking. the 1st time I heard that word to describe me and some friends was maybe around 1986 in Toronto, about 10 of us male and female all obvious mutts, and it came from 3 women with strong English accents (they were on a sports team) Beautiful and Exotic were used, and they proceeded to have a conversation with us.

Now if the feeling of exotic = unequal, its probably in reference to mostly men using it toward women.

I've heard/read terms like Exotic worlds/islands, exotic foods etc so I really believe in most situations it's just describing something different and beautiful. So I am one that tends to see the glass half full. there are some AA who will take anything to create a further disenfranchised mindset or victimized mentality.

For some reason this conv made me think of this song by meshell ndegeocello

So tell me are you free?
While we campaign for every
Dead nigga blvd
So young motherfuckers can
Drive down it in your fancy cars
Free
You try to hold on to some africa of the past
One must remember
It's other africans
That helped enslave your ass
Cuz everybody's
Just trying to make that dollar
Remember what jesse used to say?
I am somebody
No longer do i blame others
For the way that we be
Cuz niggas need to redefine
What it means to be free

I can't even tell my brothers and sisters
That they're fine
This absence of beauty
In their heart and mind
Stopped breastfeeding the child
You put 'em on the cow
And now you wonder why they act wild
You see brown folks are the
Keepers of the earth
Unifiers of the soul and mind
Not these wannabe-gotti pimps and thugs
Wearing diamond watches
From african slave mines

Ok, geez, this is going to be another long one, but I just can't help it. By the way, also don't mean to go off topic, but just have to address a few things. Anyway, Of course I have to say something about that bolded part, because I get so tired of misleading info, (not saying specifically from you) on that topic, especially when it comes to misinformation about various groups of Black Caribbeans vs how they feel about African Americans, don't always believe the hype. You say Jamaicans thumb their noses at AAs born on the mainland, because they were in slavery longer? I'm sorry I just cannot agree with you. That is not the reason. The reason is miseducation; lack of cultural knowledge regarding both groups towards each other; brainwash methods taught to many Caribbeans about African Americans in the states, from foreigners who visit the Caribbean.

Of course I know this for a fact since, both maternal/paternal sides of my family are from the Caribbean, and me and half of my siblings (4)being the first generation of my parents' children to be born stateside, while the other half (4) were born in the Caribbean.

I am telling you, from experience, that many Caribbeans are brainwashed from many foreigners who visit or move to the Caribbean, and tell them they are 'not like AAs' and they believe the bs, while trying to feed Caribbeans ignorant nonsense that's filled with lies. So yes, when many AAs visit the Caribbeans that is why they are sometimes met with the 'thumbing their noses at them' attitude, but not all are like that.

It has nothing to do with the fact that Caribbean slavery ended around the late 1830s-early 1840s, somewhere in there. Especially when both groups AAs and Black Caribbeans have the same African ancestry from various African ethnic groups, as well as European/Native American, mixture, etc., (this mixture can only be proven through DNA of course)within both groups. That kind of brainwashing is part of 'divide and conquer' methods. One who educates themselves about the other group, live among one another, would know some of the nonsense taught to Caribbeans, about AAs are not true.

Let's not forget for if it wasn't for many American-born Blacks, fighting for those who have similar complexions as them, then many Black Caribbeans would not have had the reedoms to take advantage of opportunities in America. They may have a 'different view of life, than an American-born citizen, but that is because of cultural differences. Nothing more. When you lack the education of specific cultural groups, then you allow stereotypical nonsense to be your cultural education of specific groups.

As far as other Caribbean groups thinking they're better than the other, it's a cultural thing. You will find the same attitude throughout history among many groups, i.e. Europeans, Asians, Native Americans, Africans, South/Central American/Hispanic groups, etc. That is nothing new or very different from Jamaicans vs Haitians. I see and hear that type of cultural elitism among Dominicans vs Puerto Ricans as well.

One more thing. I don't have a problem with Black Americans discussing the history of slavery in America or throughout the world, for research and personal knowledge. I don't find that many use it as a form of victimization or mental slavery. I do however, detest those who try to sugarcoat facts of American slavery or try to throw shade on actual events of American slavery. I don't see discussing the past as a 'crutch' or that one should be accused of using it as crutch or some form of victimization, because they choose to acknowledge the historical events/facts, while at the same time can comfortably exist throughout their lives, exploring the opportunities in life, and holding no personal blame to those existing today for the horrific acts of what took place.

I do however, despise those who find it necessary in this day and age to promote/practice and embrace racist beliefs/behavior/attitudes and acts of the past. To know and recognize it, is to expose it, so it does not become an acceptable practice to be embraced in today's society.

[Edited 9/25/12 11:13am]