julia319 said:

laurarichardson said:

How in the hell do you know if he shaved his armpits. It looks like he got a hair cut and has to much gel or grease in his hair. I do not like the sparkly shirt.

I have the eyes, so I can see.

[img:$uid]http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/182086_157254734329175_132691213452194_296535_997035_n.jpg[/img:$uid]

Those boots, no Prince...just....NO!

I wanna feel your booty though.

jpark6996 said:

KidaDynamite said:

Yes!

Prince now....

Prince after some 40something yr old pussy...

[img:$uid]http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w9/Purplemistress/princeafter40yroldpussy.jpg[/img:$uid]

we can't allow that to happen.

I am laughin my azz off!!! this sh!t is the truth!!! It is a unwritten law that a old man must have young poon and a young man must have old poon !!!!

Must be an unwritten law for women too cuz lord knows I love me some older men.

[Edited 3/7/11 8:54am]

jaybendy said:

Tom509 said:

Hey Purple Yoda! Chewbaca's Grandmother called, and she wants her boots back!

ANd I'm mad that those boots have CLEAR HEELS! But that WONDERFUL ASS and those shaved pits totally make up for that fashion faux pas.

The clear heels are great! Thanks for pointing them out, I didn't even see them! I thought P was just a floatin'. "Use the force P!"

KidaDynamite said:

prodigalfan said:

Are these women "black" enough for you?

I love Nona's boobies in this picture.

He does have Italian in his family lineage. I forgot if it is from his mother's or father's side of the family. That would explain why he would be attracted to white and other/all races of women.

Dalia11 said:

KidaDynamite said:

I love Nona's boobies in this picture.

He does have Italian in his family lineage. I forgot if it is from his mother's or father's side of the family. That would explain why he would be attracted to white and other/all races of women.

I don't know about all of that I was just looking at Nona's boobage.

But regarding your comment...just because a person is mixed or has a mixed background doesn't mean that they will automatically be attracted to different nationalities and or races.

KidaDynamite said:

Dalia11 said:

He does have Italian in his family lineage. I forgot if it is from his mother's or father's side of the family. That would explain why he would be attracted to white and other/all races of women.

I don't know about all of that I was just looking at Nona's boobage.

But regarding your comment...just because a person is mixed or has a mixed background doesn't mean that they will automatically be attracted to different nationalities and or races.

That's true. Somewhat. It can vary, e.t.c. My family origin is Polish and Lithuanian, and I am attracted to other races.

Dalia11 said:

KidaDynamite said:

I don't know about all of that I was just looking at Nona's boobage.

But regarding your comment...just because a person is mixed or has a mixed background doesn't mean that they will automatically be attracted to different nationalities and or races.

That's true. Somewhat. It can vary, e.t.c. My family origin is Polish and Lithuanian, and I am attracted to other races.

See.

Dalia11 said:

KidaDynamite said:

I love Nona's boobies in this picture.

He does have Italian in his family lineage. I forgot if it is from his mother's or father's side of the family. That would explain why he would be attracted to white and other/all races of women.

Um, wow. I have to say this made me wince and then laugh out loud hysterically.

[Edited 3/7/11 10:59am]

prodigalfan said:

Prince has Italian ancestry? I thought that was a false rumor that he himself started early in his career to appear more "different" for PR purposes (just like saying he was 16 when he debut). I thought his father was Black and his mother was Black/creole. They had family from the Louisiana region. I have never heard Italian after that initial PR propaganda.

That is what I read in the book, Purple Reign: The Artist Foremerly Known as Prince, by Liz Jones(1999). Did everyone read that book? And other books about Prince. Fans should know these things. It is a great book. I read it several times. Prince needs to (write) his autobiography. His fans should know the Real Story of his life, and the positive aspects of being a talented musician, and growing up in a musical family, e.t.c.

[Edited 3/7/11 12:48pm]

^ Prince has not written an AUTObiography. all those books are UNauthorized biographies. Some are better than others. It is in another biography and repeated on the org many times that Prince is black, not mixed with Italian and that his people are originally from Louisiana, aka Creole.

[Edited 3/7/11 16:09pm]

prodigalfan said:

^ Prince has not written an AUTObiography. all those books are UNauthorized biographies. Some are better than others. It is an autobiography and repeated on the org many times that Prince is black, not mixed with Italian and that his people are originally from Louisiana, aka Creole.

HELL -O!

Angelic1302 said:

prodigalfan said:

^ Prince has not written an AUTObiography. all those books are UNauthorized biographies. Some are better than others. It is an autobiography and repeated on the org many times that Prince is black, not mixed with Italian and that his people are originally from Louisiana, aka Creole.

HELL -O!

The book stated that he also has indian in his genes. Whatever. The point is that many people have more than one race in their family's origins. Creole, Cool. The Santeria religion has some roots there. That is interesting. His lawyers should be very, very AFRAID.

[Edited 3/7/11 13:11pm]

Dalia11 said:

Angelic1302 said:

HELL -O!

The book stated that he also has indian in his genes. Whatever. The point is that many people have more than one race in their family's origins. Creole, Cool. The Santeria religion has some roots there. That is interesting. His lawyers should be very, very AFRAID.

[Edited 3/7/11 13:11pm]

I can't help but admit this... when I first saw Purple Rain many years ago, and that scene when Prince is playing with that sort of hand puppet doll and he is doing that vintroloquist bit... I thought

"is this some sort of Voodoo?" I'm sure that was put in for shock value.

prodigalfan said:

Prince has Italian ancestry? I thought that was a false rumor that he himself started early in his career to appear more "different" for PR purposes (just like saying he was 16 when he debut). I thought his father was Black and his mother was Black/creole. They had family from the Louisiana region. I have never heard Italian after that initial PR propaganda.

It is. People just can't get of of it! The man has said that both of his parents are Black yet people still believe......

prodigalfan said:

^ Prince has not written an AUTObiography. all those books are UNauthorized biographies. Some are better than others. It is in another biography and repeated on the org many times that Prince is black, not mixed with Italian and that his people are originally from Louisiana, aka Creole.

[Edited 3/7/11 16:09pm]

Just because you are Black and from Louisana doens't mean that you are mixed with Creole or are Creole.

Prince's family is not just from Louisana, yeesh

Dalia11 said:

Angelic1302 said:

HELL -O!

The book stated that he also has indian in his genes. Whatever. The point is that many people have more than one race in their family's origins. Creole, Cool. The Santeria religion has some roots there. That is interesting. His lawyers should be very, very AFRAID.

[Edited 3/7/11 13:11pm]

If I had a dime for every time some Black person said "they got Indian" in their family, I could pay off my Student Loans and buy a BMW, paid in full!

I don't know if you African American or not but Black people in this country, for years have been notorious for "adding" different races and ethnic groups in their ancestry. I remember when I first went to college, I used to say that my father was part Puerto Rican! So many of us, including Black celebs we know, do it all the time! Especially back in the 80s and 90s.

It means nothing. It something that alot of Black people used to do and still do.

Ottensen said:

3121TV said:

Armpit - Do not make assumptions. I think you missed my key point about people acknowledging who lead the way to open doors for them rather than implying they have made "history" for promotion of their own selfish goals. There was no humility in her interview and her motives are apparent.

Do not make assumptions about my purpose in providing additional information. I think anyone who has a friend would not like false information being noted about them or someone trying to take advantage of them. All I can say is in the years I have been around artists in the industry in due time eventually Jehovah reveals everything at the right time and Prince is an intelligent man.

3121.TV

Prince I Got Your Back

-Telling the Funk the Whole Funk and Nothing but the Funk-

I LOVE Ballet....always have since I was a kid. I used to study under the (now defunct) Footpath Dance Company, then later at a school founded and headed by Dennis Nahat, himself a former member of ABT . I can testify (yes I mean testify ) that while Ailey and DTH are undeniably national treasures ( I have friends in both comapnies), they are in a different league than ABT. Ailey is a modern dance company that infuse all styles together, ballet with modern and jazz. Additionally, as every dance company has it's creative roots in a particular technique or physical vocaulary of movement, it should be noted that Ailey technique is genrally comprised of a neo-classical ballet bottom and a modern top.

DTH is a beloved ballet company, one of the finest in our nation, founded by a New York City Ballet member who danced under the great Ballanchine (love you, Mr. Mitchell ), it's a smaller with less influence. American Ballet Theatre is the defining face of America's interpretation of classical ballet in the world, along with New York City Ballet and San Francisco Ballet. Together, these three companies represent the Holy Trinity of American Classical Ballet, if you will, and among the top 20 or so ballet companies on planet Earth. We're talking on the same level as the Ballet de l'Opera National de Paris, The Royal Ballet, and...the Russian Motherload of Classical dance, the Kirov and the Bolshoi . The fact that Copeland has made it to those ranks and has finally become a soloist is a big deal and yes, makes her all that in the world of dance. No one ever said that she was the first African American to become a ballet soloist nor did she; any dancer would be aware and cognizant of those who came before them and paved the way for her to get to this point. Trying to twist her achievements out of context and villainize the child for something she hasn't done looks rather desperate.

Essentially, it's New York, the center of Americ's cultural universe, and she has worked hard in one of the leading companies in the world to earn a coveted position there. Some want to admit it or not, but the reality in the world of dance is that has made history. She was able to accomplish what a lot of dancers fresh off the unemployment lines from Ailey and DTH couldn't do. While everyone couldn't make it, one did. I personally found it to be something to celebrate for black history month, indeed.

Sorry, but fuck-a-Prince. Copeland's artistic achievements stand on her own merits.

[Edited 3/3/11 2:39am]

[Edited 3/3/11 2:40am]

Ottensen - Again you have missed my entire point of stating Misty Copeland is not acknowledging in a modest manner those who historically paved the way for her. I am in no way desperate in any manner and have stated before that she is a business associate of Prince, which she confirmed by the way after my original post. And she maybe known in the ballet arena, however, she has gained recent exposure she would not normally obtain through her business association.

I do not agree with your assumption that certain ballet company names automatically equate to a "level" of an artist capabilities or the "level" of company. Based on your assumptions would you also assume Harvard or Yale is a better college than Howard University? The irony of someone trying to say they made Black History by becoming the first African American to break a supposed barrier - but then within the same breath to possibly imply dance companies which happen to be predominantly African American are not on the same "level" gives a tone of arrogance and not owning your own culture.

I think it is sad for anyone to possibly fall for the game society will play with the "level" illusion. Rather than realizing the true goal you are reaching for must come from within and modestly accepting how others have paved the way. If I used your same philosophy regarding what is considered an artist of high caliber, any unemployed struggling artist who is not associated with a specific named company is not on the same "level." Well I guess you have described most of the most talented and gifted artists in the world who started out struggling and independent and marching to their own inner goals and not what society defined.

I would also like to point out when many talented musicians and artists are not touring, doing local or studio gigs they are unemployed - does that make them any less talented or not on a specific "level". I have no doubt Jehovah has given gifts of talent to everyone and you just have to discover what it is for you. Some people obtain more public exposure than others in regards to their talent - however in the eyes of Jehovah everyone is equal. Jehovah is not partial.

3121.TV

Prince I Got Your Back

-Telling the Funk the Whole Funk and Nothing but the Funk-

[Edited 3/7/11 18:44pm]

Avaspeaks said:

prodigalfan said:

^ Prince has not written an AUTObiography. all those books are UNauthorized biographies. Some are better than others. It is in another biography and repeated on the org many times that Prince is black, not mixed with Italian and that his people are originally from Louisiana, aka Creole.

[Edited 3/7/11 16:09pm]

Just because you are Black and from Louisana doens't mean that you are mixed with Creole or are Creole.

Prince's family is not just from Louisana, yeesh

First statement: You and I agree with this statement. Did you think that I thought that JUST because you are from Louisiana, that you must be Creole? If you do, then sorry to give you that impression... that was not my intention.

Second statement: We agree with the second statement. I don't believe I ever said the word "just" or for that matter even the word "only".

please watch that word "just" and don't add that word to any sentence or idea convey. The word "just" really changes the message.

Avaspeaks said:

Dalia11 said:

The book stated that he also has indian in his genes. Whatever. The point is that many people have more than one race in their family's origins. Creole, Cool. The Santeria religion has some roots there. That is interesting. His lawyers should be very, very AFRAID.

[Edited 3/7/11 13:11pm]

If I had a dime for every time some Black person said "they got Indian" in their family, I could pay off my Student Loans and buy a BMW, paid in full!

I don't know if you African American or not but Black people in this country, for years have been notorious for "adding" different races and ethnic groups in their ancestry. I remember when I first went to college, I used to say that my father was part Puerto Rican! So many of us, including Black celebs we know, do it all the time! Especially back in the 80s and 90s.

It means nothing. It something that alot of Black people used to do and still do.

^ right.

Also, many African Americans are really mixed with other races... they just don't "say" it. It is the truth. Expecially Native American. It seems to me that Indians and Black intermingled for a long time... since the 1800's easily. A lot of people I have seen who were "full blood" Indians, I have indentified as looking African American. Probably because Indians race has been mixed with African race for so many generations, that it certian facial features that are commonly identified as "black" actually orginated in the Indian race.

For instance...I have Indian in my ancestory as well; the Combahee nation from South Carolina. on my mother's paternal side. Also 1/8 Indian on my father's side. His Grandmother was full blooded Indian.

But what does it mean? I bet most AA on this board can relate something similar. But like me, and Prince.. when you see us you don't see Indian... you see African American.

Avaspeaks said:

If I had a dime for every time some Black person said "they got Indian" in their family, I could pay off my Student Loans and buy a BMW, paid in full!

3121TV said:

Ottensen said:

I LOVE Ballet....always have since I was a kid. I used to study under the (now defunct) Footpath Dance Company, then later at a school founded and headed by Dennis Nahat, himself a former member of ABT . I can testify (yes I mean testify ) that while Ailey and DTH are undeniably national treasures ( I have friends in both comapnies), they are in a different league than ABT. Ailey is a modern dance company that infuse all styles together, ballet with modern and jazz. Additionally, as every dance company has it's creative roots in a particular technique or physical vocaulary of movement, it should be noted that Ailey technique is genrally comprised of a neo-classical ballet bottom and a modern top.

DTH is a beloved ballet company, one of the finest in our nation, founded by a New York City Ballet member who danced under the great Ballanchine (love you, Mr. Mitchell ), it's a smaller with less influence. American Ballet Theatre is the defining face of America's interpretation of classical ballet in the world, along with New York City Ballet and San Francisco Ballet. Together, these three companies represent the Holy Trinity of American Classical Ballet, if you will, and among the top 20 or so ballet companies on planet Earth. We're talking on the same level as the Ballet de l'Opera National de Paris, The Royal Ballet, and...the Russian Motherload of Classical dance, the Kirov and the Bolshoi . The fact that Copeland has made it to those ranks and has finally become a soloist is a big deal and yes, makes her all that in the world of dance. No one ever said that she was the first African American to become a ballet soloist nor did she; any dancer would be aware and cognizant of those who came before them and paved the way for her to get to this point. Trying to twist her achievements out of context and villainize the child for something she hasn't done looks rather desperate.

Essentially, it's New York, the center of Americ's cultural universe, and she has worked hard in one of the leading companies in the world to earn a coveted position there. Some want to admit it or not, but the reality in the world of dance is that has made history. She was able to accomplish what a lot of dancers fresh off the unemployment lines from Ailey and DTH couldn't do. While everyone couldn't make it, one did. I personally found it to be something to celebrate for black history month, indeed.

Sorry, but fuck-a-Prince. Copeland's artistic achievements stand on her own merits.

[Edited 3/3/11 2:39am]

[Edited 3/3/11 2:40am]

Ottensen - Again you have missed my entire point of stating Misty Copeland is not acknowledging in a modest manner those who historically paved the way for her. I am in no way desperate in any manner and have stated before that she is a business associate of Prince, which she confirmed by the way after my original post. And she maybe known in the ballet arena, however, she has gained recent exposure she would not normally obtain through her business association.

I do not agree with your assumption that certain ballet company names automatically equate to a "level" of an artist capabilities or the "level" of company. Based on your assumptions would you also assume Harvard or Yale is a better college than Howard University? The irony of someone trying to say they made Black History by becoming the first African American to break a supposed barrier - but then within the same breath to possibly imply dance companies which happen to be predominantly African American are not on the same "level" gives a tone of arrogance and not owning your own culture.

I think it is sad for anyone to possibly fall for the game society will play with the "level" illusion. Rather than realizing the true goal you are reaching for must come from within and modestly accepting how others have paved the way. If I used your same philosophy regarding what is considered an artist of high caliber, any unemployed struggling artist who is not associated with a specific named company is not on the same "level." Well I guess you have described most of the most talented and gifted artists in the world who started out struggling and independent and marching to their own inner goals and not what society defined.

I would also like to point out when many talented musicians and artists are not touring, doing local or studio gigs they are unemployed - does that make them any less talented or not on a specific "level". I have no doubt Jehovah has given gifts of talent to everyone and you just have to discover what it is for you. Some people obtain more public exposure than others in regards to their talent - however in the eyes of Jehovah everyone is equal. Jehovah is not partial.

3121.TV

Prince I Got Your Back

-Telling the Funk the Whole Funk and Nothing but the Funk-

[Edited 3/7/11 18:44pm]

In all sincerity, I'm not missing anything. In spite of my typos and never ending usage of slang in my posts, I have a fairly high SAT verbal score, and my reading comprehension is just fine, thank you. It's not that I don't understand you, I just simply don't agree with you. Frankly, I think you're talking out the side of your neck. Futhermore, I don't need a crash course from you on the world of musicians, or fine and performing artists because I've worked with them, lived amongst them, traveled with them, ate their food, baby sat their kids, and married a few over the last few decades... so I'm pretty familiar with how that life works, how the world sees these people, and how they see themselves....but thanks anyway for the input. As for the school analogy; that's comparing apples and turnips. I think it's a sophmoric comparison and I'm not engaging that foolishness because it reeks of bait.

Listen, I'll give you the first paragraph, and say that I understand your first point; people who wouldn't normally be ballet fans are now interested in Copeland due to her association with Prince. Fair enough. But trust that those new fans will not make nor break Copeland's career. I dare say that privilege goes to Kevin McKenzie and the current board of Directors at American Ballet Theatre.

As for the rest of what you've written:

1. Nothing that I have written here is an assumption. Let us be very clear here that when it comes to this topic, you are dealing with neither sycopant nor dilettante, Dear. I don't know what part of 'I studied under the direction of a former ABT dancer who performed under the great George Ballanchine' you didn't understand- but if you can't piece 1+1 together that comment alone, then this is going to be a useless conversation because not only are we not on the same page, it is abundantly clear to me that you haven't even cracked open the metaphorical book on this subject

I would also like to add that as a middle aged woman, I'm pretty proud to say that I have volunteered for world class organizations allowing me the opportunity to be a fundraiser for ballet across North America. I have a personal track record of having raised over $250,000 worth of donations...yup, I have squeezed over quarter of a million duckets from donors in 20 years of my life...all for this art form. When it comes to ballet, while I am not a dancer, it is a world that I am intimately familiar with to the point that I am quite capable of saying what it is and what it isn't, and I guarantee you has not a thing to do with assumption or illusion. What I have said here is based on experience, active involvement, passion for the art form, and cold hard truth- not some fucking esoteric diatribe on the equality of man and the fairness of God. Whether you like it or not, whether you choose to recognize it or not, there are tiers in professional performing arts on planet Earth, period...and while I too believe in God and trust that He is a God of grace, mercy, and impartiality, this utopic world of equality you speak of currently does not not exist in this realm, and it most certainly does not exist in the world of DANCE . So let it exist in your heart if that's what you need, but um, don't play yourself with what's up in this world, on this dimension

2. Let me state here for the record that I am not saying in any way, shape, form or fashion that the Alvin Ailey company or the Dance Theatre of Harlem are lesser companies because they are predominantly African American. As a black woman with friends in both of those companies you can get the hell out of here with trying to twist my words into that bullshit, and I'm not even going to touch the nonsense about not owning my culture . First of all, please note that Ailey is a MODERN dance company, so they aren't even applicable to this conversation on ballet. In the same way that you don't compare the fucking Isadora Duncan Dance Troup to the former Imperial Ballet of Russia or Royal Ballet of London- Ailey, like Katherine Dunham, Mercer Cunningham, and Martha Graham is moot to this conversation. Get the analogy ?

3. As for DTH, allow me to point out that in 2006 when the company nearly collasped from lack of funds many of the dancers there tried their damndest to get into ABT and NCB, and sadly none of them made the cut during auditions. Are the members of DTH among the most talent ballet dancers in the nation? Absolutely. But what we're talking about here is not about them being predominantly African American, it's purely about the rigors of interpretation and technique, and unfortunately they could not make the cut, while Copeland could. DTH is exquisite to be sure, it's a company with 40 years of "firsts" , and stands strongly as a pillar of neo-classical ballet interpretation. But while DTH is a national treasure with their own unique ownership to classical movement, they are not THE face nor leading interpreter for the American style of classical ballet on the GLOBAL 1st tier. Even Virginia Johnson herself will tell you that.

The idea that Copeland's opportunity isn't something to be celebrated and the insistence that it only had a "supposed barrier" reads stuck on stupid to me. If you have a problem with the direction and the context of her interviews, then that should be taken up with the segment producer or the person posing the questions, not the person being interviewed. She's answering questions based within the context of her position in the American Ballet Theatre, and what that entity represents as a global force in classical dance, not more not less. People seriously need to stop digging for issues with this woman where there clearly are none. While you're at it you can also stop telling people what she's modestly accepted or not in who paved the way for her career at ABT; because if you want to talk about assumptions, you don't know that any more than you know what color drawers that chile put on this morning.

Fin.

Ottensen said:

3121TV said:

In all sincerity, I'm not missing anything. In spite of my typos and never ending usage of slang in my posts, I have a fairly high SAT verbal score, and my reading comprehension is just fine, thank you. It's not that I don't understand you, I just simply don't agree with you. Frankly, I think you're talking out the side of your neck. Futhermore, I don't need a crash course from you on the world of musicians, or fine and performing artists because I've worked with them, lived amongst them, traveled with them, ate their food, baby sat their kids, and married a few over the last few decades... so I'm pretty familiar with how that life works, how the world sees these people, and how they see themselves....but thanks anyway for the input. As for the school analogy; that's comparing apples and turnips. I think it's a sophmoric comparison and I'm not engaging that foolishness because it reeks of bait.

Listen, I'll give you the first paragraph, and say that I understand your first point; people who wouldn't normally be ballet fans are now interested in Copeland due to her association with Prince. Fair enough. But trust that those new fans will not make nor break Copeland's career. I dare say that privilege goes to Kevin McKenzie and the current board of Directors at American Ballet Theatre.

As for the rest of what you've written:

1. Nothing that I have written here is an assumption. Let us be very clear here that when it comes to this topic, you are dealing with neither sycopant nor dilettante, Dear. I don't know what part of 'I studied under the direction of a former ABT dancer who performed under the great George Ballanchine' you didn't understand- but if you can't piece 1+1 together that comment alone, then this is going to be a useless conversation because not only are we not on the same page, it is abundantly clear to me that you haven't even cracked open the metaphorical book on this subject

I would also like to add that as a middle aged woman, I'm pretty proud to say that I have volunteered for world class organizations allowing me the opportunity to be a fundraiser for ballet across North America. I have a personal track record of having raised over $250,000 worth of donations...yup, I have squeezed over quarter of a million duckets from donors in 20 years of my life...all for this art form. When it comes to ballet, while I am not a dancer, it is a world that I am intimately familiar with to the point that I am quite capable of saying what it is and what it isn't, and I guarantee you has not a thing to do with assumption or illusion. What I have said here is based on experience, active involvement, passion for the art form, and cold hard truth- not some fucking esoteric diatribe on the equality of man and the fairness of God. Whether you like it or not, whether you choose to recognize it or not, there are tiers in professional performing arts on planet Earth, period...and while I too believe in God and trust that He is a God of grace, mercy, and impartiality, this utopic world of equality you speak of currently does not not exist in this realm, and it most certainly does not exist in the world of DANCE . So let it exist in your heart if that's what you need, but um, don't play yourself with what's up in this world, on this dimension

2. Let me state here for the record that I am not saying in any way, shape, form or fashion that the Alvin Ailey company or the Dance Theatre of Harlem are lesser companies because they are predominantly African American. As a black woman with friends in both of those companies you can get the hell out of here with trying to twist my words into that bullshit, and I'm not even going to touch the nonsense about not owning my culture . First of all, please note that Ailey is a MODERN dance company, so they aren't even applicable to this conversation on ballet. In the same way that you don't compare the fucking Isadora Duncan Dance Troup to the former Imperial Ballet of Russia or Royal Ballet of London- Ailey, like Katherine Dunham, Mercer Cunningham, and Martha Graham is moot to this conversation. Get the analogy ?

3. As for DTH, allow me to point out that in 2006 when the company nearly collasped from lack of funds many of the dancers there tried their damndest to get into ABT and NCB, and sadly none of them made the cut during auditions. Are the members of DTH among the most talent ballet dancers in the nation? Absolutely. But what we're talking about here is not about them being predominantly African American, it's purely about the rigors of interpretation and technique, and unfortunately they could not make the cut, while Copeland could. DTH is exquisite to be sure, it's a company with 40 years of "firsts" , and stands strongly as a pillar of neo-classical ballet interpretation. But while DTH is a national treasure with their own unique ownership to classical movement, they are not THE face nor leading interpreter for the American style of classical ballet on the GLOBAL 1st tier. Even Virginia Johnson herself will tell you that.

The idea that Copeland's opportunity isn't something to be celebrated and the insistence that it only had a "supposed barrier" reads stuck on stupid to me. If you have a problem with the direction and the context of her interviews, then that should be taken up with the segment producer or the person posing the questions, not the person being interviewed. She's answering questions based within the context of her position in the American Ballet Theatre, and what that entity represents as a global force in classical dance, not more not less. People seriously need to stop digging for issues with this woman where there clearly are none. While you're at it you can also stop telling people what she's modestly accepted or not in who paved the way for her career at ABT; because if you want to talk about assumptions, you don't know that any more than you know what color drawers that chile put on this morning.

Fin.

And that is how you do it. Shut her DOWN girl! Ottensen.... you rock! And once again, thank you for the enlightening. I did not realize that DHT was not classic ballet interpretation (in fact I didn't realize there were different forms of ballet.) They all looked like they were doing ballet to me. But I am not an avid fan of the art. It is true the Copeland's association with Pricne has introduced people to the art of ballet. I'm one of them. I am fast becoming a fan of Copeland thanks to you sharing knowledge on the subject. Wow... many DHT dancers tried for classic ballet companies and could not make the cut. It just goes to show that if you don't use it, you will lose. I'm sure that at some point in their training history they learned classic ballet, but by working in company that was neo-classic ballet, they lost the edge on some of those classic ballet skills. Once again Madam

KidaDynamite said:

Dalia11 said:

He does have Italian in his family lineage. I forgot if it is from his mother's or father's side of the family. That would explain why he would be attracted to white and other/all races of women.

I don't know about all of that I was just looking at Nona's boobage.

But regarding your comment...just because a person is mixed or has a mixed background doesn't mean that they will automatically be attracted to different nationalities and or races.

Agree. That is the funniest sh*t I've ever heard. Looks like someone needs to be re-educated.

It's funny to me, how some people sometimes want so much to relate to their musical heros. I remember being excited when I was a kid, thinking Prince was half Italian, and somehow I too could be a musical genius being that I am part Italian. It's like the Eddie Murphy skit (from RAW), where the Italian guys think their bad-ass after coming out of the Rocky movie, because Rocky (a fictional character I might add) was bad-ass. I watched that dvd last year (with a few beers in me) and it still made me cry, it was so funny. Could have been the beers.

Well, at some point I figured out that I'm a lover not a fighter, and I'm only so-so at playing the guitar. Not because I'm part Italian, but because I'm also part Irish. nooo. . .just kidding. It's just because that's just me, and I'm cool with that. Although I do wish I had Prince's musical skills from time to time!

prodigalfan said:

Avaspeaks said:

If I had a dime for every time some Black person said "they got Indian" in their family, I could pay off my Student Loans and buy a BMW, paid in full!

I don't know if you African American or not but Black people in this country, for years have been notorious for "adding" different races and ethnic groups in their ancestry. I remember when I first went to college, I used to say that my father was part Puerto Rican! So many of us, including Black celebs we know, do it all the time! Especially back in the 80s and 90s.

It means nothing. It something that alot of Black people used to do and still do.

^ right.

Also, many African Americans are really mixed with other races... they just don't "say" it. It is the truth. Expecially Native American. It seems to me that Indians and Black intermingled for a long time... since the 1800's easily. A lot of people I have seen who were "full blood" Indians, I have indentified as looking African American. Probably because Indians race has been mixed with African race for so many generations, that it certian facial features that are commonly identified as "black" actually orginated in the Indian race.

For instance...I have Indian in my ancestory as well; the Combahee nation from South Carolina. on my mother's paternal side. Also 1/8 Indian on my father's side. His Grandmother was full blooded Indian.

But what does it mean? I bet most AA on this board can relate something similar. But like me, and Prince.. when you see us you don't see Indian... you see African American.

Let me just interject here for a minute. No harm or disrespect intended of course to either of you . There's a book and DVD called " The Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey, by author and geneticist, anthropologist, and historian, Spencer Wells, who pretty much breaks down the history of the the human species, from hair textures, bone structures, eye color, skin tones, and explains how the ancient/earliest humans (human ancestors) travelled from Africa and populated the entire globe. Also, it is true that Black Americans have the most diverse DNA. That is a fact and anyone specializing in human genetics can confirm this.

However, Black people can't go around with signs advertising and breaking down the percentages of their DNA, just to gain respect or be accepted by everyone else in the human species, who gets confused when they see many of our skin tones. So many (not speaking for the entire group) are comfortable with defining themselves as Black or African-American, etc., which is truly more than just "skin color". Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying either of you are not aware of that. Although it is not surprising that no matter how "light or dark" many of us appear to be to others, the lightness or darkness of one's skin tone will not give anyone a "step higher" on the human chain, so it doesn't really make sense to argue about it, but rather educate yourselves about it instead.

However a person decides to define themself, on a racial basis, is that individual's personal choice, and not the choice of others. As we all know, both Prince's parents were African-American, so he is whatever they are, and only he can be the one to make his decision on how he chooses to be defined. So what's the point of the back and forth? It's a waste of time. Respect to both of you.

Here's a link to Spencer Wells: Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey video: http://www.youtube.com/wa...9DBF14F73D

Here's another one on a lecture he did on the "Journey of Man" in 2003, that's on the cspan website. Video is about 1 hour, 13 minutes:

http://www.yidio.com/the-...3342364009 At mark 16:17 is where he indicates we're all from the same human species. Enjoy.

"few edits" - edit

[Edited 3/10/11 6:29am]

Ottensen said:

3121TV said:

Ottensen - Again you have missed my entire point of stating Misty Copeland is not acknowledging in a modest manner those who historically paved the way for her. I am in no way desperate in any manner and have stated before that she is a business associate of Prince, which she confirmed by the way after my original post. And she maybe known in the ballet arena, however, she has gained recent exposure she would not normally obtain through her business association.

I do not agree with your assumption that certain ballet company names automatically equate to a "level" of an artist capabilities or the "level" of company. Based on your assumptions would you also assume Harvard or Yale is a better college than Howard University? The irony of someone trying to say they made Black History by becoming the first African American to break a supposed barrier - but then within the same breath to possibly imply dance companies which happen to be predominantly African American are not on the same "level" gives a tone of arrogance and not owning your own culture.

I think it is sad for anyone to possibly fall for the game society will play with the "level" illusion. Rather than realizing the true goal you are reaching for must come from within and modestly accepting how others have paved the way. If I used your same philosophy regarding what is considered an artist of high caliber, any unemployed struggling artist who is not associated with a specific named company is not on the same "level." Well I guess you have described most of the most talented and gifted artists in the world who started out struggling and independent and marching to their own inner goals and not what society defined.

I would also like to point out when many talented musicians and artists are not touring, doing local or studio gigs they are unemployed - does that make them any less talented or not on a specific "level". I have no doubt Jehovah has given gifts of talent to everyone and you just have to discover what it is for you. Some people obtain more public exposure than others in regards to their talent - however in the eyes of Jehovah everyone is equal. Jehovah is not partial.

3121.TV

Prince I Got Your Back

-Telling the Funk the Whole Funk and Nothing but the Funk-

[Edited 3/7/11 18:44pm]

In all sincerity, I'm not missing anything. In spite of my typos and never ending usage of slang in my posts, I have a fairly high SAT verbal score, and my reading comprehension is just fine, thank you. It's not that I don't understand you, I just simply don't agree with you. Frankly, I think you're talking out the side of your neck. Futhermore, I don't need a crash course from you on the world of musicians, or fine and performing artists because I've worked with them, lived amongst them, traveled with them, ate their food, baby sat their kids, and married a few over the last few decades... so I'm pretty familiar with how that life works, how the world sees these people, and how they see themselves....but thanks anyway for the input. As for the school analogy; that's comparing apples and turnips. I think it's a sophmoric comparison and I'm not engaging that foolishness because it reeks of bait.

Listen, I'll give you the first paragraph, and say that I understand your first point; people who wouldn't normally be ballet fans are now interested in Copeland due to her association with Prince. Fair enough. But trust that those new fans will not make nor break Copeland's career. I dare say that privilege goes to Kevin McKenzie and the current board of Directors at American Ballet Theatre.

As for the rest of what you've written:

1. Nothing that I have written here is an assumption. Let us be very clear here that when it comes to this topic, you are dealing with neither sycopant nor dilettante, Dear. I don't know what part of 'I studied under the direction of a former ABT dancer who performed under the great George Ballanchine' you didn't understand- but if you can't piece 1+1 together that comment alone, then this is going to be a useless conversation because not only are we not on the same page, it is abundantly clear to me that you haven't even cracked open the metaphorical book on this subject

I would also like to add that as a middle aged woman, I'm pretty proud to say that I have volunteered for world class organizations allowing me the opportunity to be a fundraiser for ballet across North America. I have a personal track record of having raised over $250,000 worth of donations...yup, I have squeezed over quarter of a million duckets from donors in 20 years of my life...all for this art form. When it comes to ballet, while I am not a dancer, it is a world that I am intimately familiar with to the point that I am quite capable of saying what it is and what it isn't, and I guarantee you has not a thing to do with assumption or illusion. What I have said here is based on experience, active involvement, passion for the art form, and cold hard truth- not some fucking esoteric diatribe on the equality of man and the fairness of God. Whether you like it or not, whether you choose to recognize it or not, there are tiers in professional performing arts on planet Earth, period...and while I too believe in God and trust that He is a God of grace, mercy, and impartiality, this utopic world of equality you speak of currently does not not exist in this realm, and it most certainly does not exist in the world of DANCE . So let it exist in your heart if that's what you need, but um, don't play yourself with what's up in this world, on this dimension

2. Let me state here for the record that I am not saying in any way, shape, form or fashion that the Alvin Ailey company or the Dance Theatre of Harlem are lesser companies because they are predominantly African American. As a black woman with friends in both of those companies you can get the hell out of here with trying to twist my words into that bullshit, and I'm not even going to touch the nonsense about not owning my culture . First of all, please note that Ailey is a MODERN dance company, so they aren't even applicable to this conversation on ballet. In the same way that you don't compare the fucking Isadora Duncan Dance Troup to the former Imperial Ballet of Russia or Royal Ballet of London- Ailey, like Katherine Dunham, Mercer Cunningham, and Martha Graham is moot to this conversation. Get the analogy ?

3. As for DTH, allow me to point out that in 2006 when the company nearly collasped from lack of funds many of the dancers there tried their damndest to get into ABT and NCB, and sadly none of them made the cut during auditions. Are the members of DTH among the most talent ballet dancers in the nation? Absolutely. But what we're talking about here is not about them being predominantly African American, it's purely about the rigors of interpretation and technique, and unfortunately they could not make the cut, while Copeland could. DTH is exquisite to be sure, it's a company with 40 years of "firsts" , and stands strongly as a pillar of neo-classical ballet interpretation. But while DTH is a national treasure with their own unique ownership to classical movement, they are not THE face nor leading interpreter for the American style of classical ballet on the GLOBAL 1st tier. Even Virginia Johnson herself will tell you that.

The idea that Copeland's opportunity isn't something to be celebrated and the insistence that it only had a "supposed barrier" reads stuck on stupid to me. If you have a problem with the direction and the context of her interviews, then that should be taken up with the segment producer or the person posing the questions, not the person being interviewed. She's answering questions based within the context of her position in the American Ballet Theatre, and what that entity represents as a global force in classical dance, not more not less. People seriously need to stop digging for issues with this woman where there clearly are none. While you're at it you can also stop telling people what she's modestly accepted or not in who paved the way for her career at ABT; because if you want to talk about assumptions, you don't know that any more than you know what color drawers that chile put on this morning.

Fin.

Lawd have mercy Ottensen, that's why I luv ya. You are "always" on point, and if orger "3121TV" doesn't get your comments in this post, then one has to wonder about her intentions in going after some folks in this thread, including me, over a ballerina's accomplishments. Not to mention using "Jehovah" as a weapon to get her point across. I have a feeling that orger "3121TV" missed that little yellow school bus... several times.

[Edited 3/8/11 10:15am]

Ottensen said:

2. Let me state here for the record that I am not saying in any way, shape, form or fashion that the Alvin Ailey company or the Dance Theatre of Harlem are lesser companies because they are predominantly African American. As a black woman with friends in both of those companies you can get the hell out of here with trying to twist my words into that bullshit, and I'm not even going to touch the nonsense about not owning my culture . First of all, please note that Ailey is a MODERN dance company, so they aren't even applicable to this conversation on ballet. In the same way that you don't compare the fucking Isadora Duncan Dance Troup to the former Imperial Ballet of Russia or Royal Ballet of London- Ailey, like Katherine Dunham, Mercer Cunningham, and Martha Graham is moot to this conversation. Get the analogy ?

3. As for DTH, allow me to point out that in 2006 when the company nearly collasped from lack of funds many of the dancers there tried their damndest to get into ABT and NCB, and sadly none of them made the cut during auditions. Are the members of DTH among the most talent ballet dancers in the nation? Absolutely. But what we're talking about here is not about them being predominantly African American, it's purely about the rigors of interpretation and technique, and unfortunately they could not make the cut, while Copeland could. DTH is exquisite to be sure, it's a company with 40 years of "firsts" , and stands strongly as a pillar of neo-classical ballet interpretation. But while DTH is a national treasure with their own unique ownership to classical movement, they are not THE face nor leading interpreter for the American style of classical ballet on the GLOBAL 1st tier. Even Virginia Johnson herself will tell you that.

The idea that Copeland's opportunity isn't something to be celebrated and the insistence that it only had a "supposed barrier" reads stuck on stupid to me. If you have a problem with the direction and the context of her interviews, then that should be taken up with the segment producer or the person posing the questions, not the person being interviewed. She's answering questions based within the context of her position in the American Ballet Theatre, and what that entity represents as a global force in classical dance, not more not less. People seriously need to stop digging for issues with this woman where there clearly are none. While you're at it you can also stop telling people what she's modestly accepted or not in who paved the way for her career at ABT; because if you want to talk about assumptions, you don't know that any more than you know what color drawers that chile put on this morning.

Fin.

2elijah said:

prodigalfan said:

^ right.

Also, many African Americans are really mixed with other races... they just don't "say" it. It is the truth. Expecially Native American. It seems to me that Indians and Black intermingled for a long time... since the 1800's easily. A lot of people I have seen who were "full blood" Indians, I have indentified as looking African American. Probably because Indians race has been mixed with African race for so many generations, that it certian facial features that are commonly identified as "black" actually orginated in the Indian race.

For instance...I have Indian in my ancestory as well; the Combahee nation from South Carolina. on my mother's paternal side. Also 1/8 Indian on my father's side. His Grandmother was full blooded Indian.

But what does it mean? I bet most AA on this board can relate something similar. But like me, and Prince.. when you see us you don't see Indian... you see African American.

Let me just interject here for a minute. No harm or disrespect intended of course to either of you . There's a book and DVD called " The Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey, by author and genetic scientist Spencer Wells, that pretty much breaks down the characteristics of the human species, from hair textures, bone structures, eye color, skin tones, where the earliest humans travelled from and where they travelled to around the globe. It is true that Black Americans have the most diverse DNA. That is a fact and you can ask any genetic scientist. However, Black people can't go around with signs advertising and breaking down the percentages of our DNA just to gain respect or be accepted by everyone else in the human species, who gets confused when they see many of our skin tones. So many are comfortable with definining themselves as Black or African-American, etcl, which is truly more than being about "skin color". Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying either of you are not aware of that. Although it is not surprising that no matter how "light or dark" many of us appear to be to others, the lightness or darkness of one's skin tone will not give anyone a "step higher" on the human chain, so it doesn't really make sense to argue about it does it?

However a person decides to define themselves on a racial basis is that individual's personal choice, and not the choice of others. As we all know, both Prince's parents were African-American, so he is whatever they are, and only he can be the one to make his decision on how he chooses to be defined. So what's the point of the back and forth? It's a waste of time. Respect to both of you.

[Edited 3/8/11 8:35am]

prodigalfan said:

Ottensen said:

And that is how you do it. Shut her DOWN girl! Ottensen.... you rock! And once again, thank you for the enlightening. I did not realize that DHT was not classic ballet interpretation (in fact I didn't realize there were different forms of ballet.) They all looked like they were doing ballet to me. But I am not an avid fan of the art. It is true the Copeland's association with Pricne has introduced people to the art of ballet. I'm one of them. I am fast becoming a fan of Copeland thanks to you sharing knowledge on the subject. Wow... many DHT dancers tried for classic ballet companies and could not make the cut. It just goes to show that if you don't use it, you will lose. I'm sure that at some point in their training history they learned classic ballet, but by working in company that was neo-classic ballet, they lost the edge on some of those classic ballet skills. Once again Madam

Thanks. But I don't want there to be mis-information here, though:. While they are now just a school, The Dance Theatre of Harlem (DTH) is absolutely classical ballet at its core...you can't reinterpret classical into neo-classical unless you have the foundation down first. Think of other arts where this could apply, for example "soul" music (which produced the neo-soul explosion of the 90's), or, Greek architecture (which is the basis for the neo-classical design of the federal buildings and monuments in Washington DC).

I wouldn't say that they lost any classical skills in any way, as they are a classical school and (was a classical company-DTH as we knew it- no longer exists)...DTH just happens to be primarily famous for doing neo-classical interpretation in their performances- with their own technical nuances as influenced by Arthur Mitchell ( who don't forget was a Principal dancer at City Ballet/NYCB).

Most ballets the DTH performed had identical choreography to their classical counterparts, and their dancers are trained in both classical and neo-classical repetoire. For the dancers in the current performing "B" ensemble at DTH which is still in operation, their work encompasses all forms of ballet (classical, neo-classical, and contemporary) combined with Afro-Carribbean dance technique, so they definitely are different technically to ABT and NYCB. As for the dancers who tried to audition for the other companies when DTH was imploding, I think it's just that for whatever reason they just didn't have that "extra" something to make the ranks of those other dudes that that go head to head with the Bolshoi..and somehow Misty did.

I think it's cool as hell to see people on the board giving ballet a second look and wanting to check it out since ole Princey is featuring it in his shows. Hopefully people will be inspired to check out ballet performances in their own neck of the woods...not necessarily seeing some big opera house production, but maybe just checking out smaller concerts or recitals in their neighborhoods. When you see how much dance Theatre of Harlem suffered from lack of funds in the last decade, can you imagine how hard it is for even smaller companies to survive? These smaller companies exist on next to nothing and are always in a state of flux and stress. So if people feel like they're really becoming interested in ballet, by all means, please keep your eyes open to your local paper for whatever small performances are happening in your area or support your local ballet school recitals. I always tell people, "buy a ticket.... and preserve a dream"