robinhood said:

Tremolina said:

Seriously. take a look at the state of music since the early nineties.

purely subjective and i'm not sure how that changes that prince has moved humanity forward through music.

Sorry but your opinion that he has moved humanity froward through his music is purely subjective. And unsubstantiated too. It's not just my opinion that the quality of popular music has steadily declined the past 20 years, but a widely held one.

Tremolina said:

robinhood said:

imo, he was part of a wave of performers who brought a new intensity to millions of people through music.

he was part of a wave that emphasized sexual freedom of expression, love, spirituality, standing up for your rights and peace.

though not all of his songs are along these lines and he dipped into darker territories, i think he can still be held amongst those who, as a group, moved humanity forward, through music.

as a musician only, i think he led the way for many other musicians, and in this sense, he definitely moved them forward, as musicians and song-writers.

all waves roll into the shore eventually, but i guess the main thing is what the tide brings to our feet.

If there is any credit that Prince can be given for "moving humanity forward" it's through music.

tremolina i dont understand your posts after this one ^. it's not really an argument.

we're just being asked what we think. i'm not here to argue or defend my opinion.

arguing for the sake of it really tires me out. i just dont see the point i guess.

semantics and i dont get get along very well but thanks for the chat anyway.

I'm truly flabbergasted at some of the nonsense being spouted in this thread. He's a fucking pop singer kids.

robinhood said:

Tremolina said:

If there is any credit that Prince can be given for "moving humanity forward" it's through music.

tremolina i dont understand your posts after this one ^. it's not really an argument.

we're just being asked what we think. i'm not here to argue or defend my opinion.

arguing for the sake of it really tires me out. i just dont see the point i guess.

semantics and i dont get get along very well but thanks for the chat anyway.

robinhood, when you challenge my point, it's not unreasonable to expect me to defend it and challenge yours the same.

Tremolina said:

robinhood said:

tremolina i dont understand your posts after this one ^. it's not really an argument.

we're just being asked what we think. i'm not here to argue or defend my opinion.

arguing for the sake of it really tires me out. i just dont see the point i guess.

semantics and i dont get get along very well but thanks for the chat anyway.

robinhood, when you challenge my point, it's not unreasonable to expect me to defend it and challenge yours the same.

i never challenged your point. you challenged mine. i only gave my opinion. i dont see the point in debating it. its just an opinion. i dont like arguing for the sake of it when it doesnt change anything.

if you think his music isnt that great from the 90's then so be it. it doesnt change my opinion. you agreed with my opinion anyway so i dont get what our discussion is even about.

sorry.

TwiliteKid said:

I'm truly flabbergasted at some of the nonsense being spouted in this thread. He's a fucking pop singer kids.

he's a musician. ancient cultures understood the power of music.

i'm truly flabbergasted at how hard people will argue that he hasnt moved humanity forward'.

of course he did. he's not just a 'fucking pop singer'

he's PRINCE.

robinhood said:

Tremolina said:

robinhood, when you challenge my point, it's not unreasonable to expect me to defend it and challenge yours the same.

i never challenged your point. you challenged mine. i only gave my opinion. i dont see the point in debating it. its just an opinion. i dont like arguing for the sake of it when it doesnt change anything.

if you think his music isnt that great from the 90's then so be it. it doesnt change my opinion. you agreed with my opinion anyway so i dont get what our discussion is even about.

sorry.

I get the sense that you feel personally attacked or something when you really aren't. But, yes you challenged my point. You called it "purely subjective". See a couple of posts above. And you are really not "just giving an opion" when you repeatedly bluntly state that Prince has move humanity forward but you do not substantiate such a bold declaration in any way.

It's not unreasonable, let alone unusual for someboy to challenge such a statement in a discusion forum. You know that, but when it happens to you, you back off and accuse me of "arguing for the sake of it" and "purely subjective" opinions. But you also know that the state of popular music has steadily declined while such things as sexual explicitness and throw away girl groups have become the norm.

That's not arguing for the sake of it. That's making a fair point based on facts. But if you just want to give your opinion and run while not having to interact with anybody, then why engage with anybody either on it, as you just did? Why do you even bother going onto a discussion board then?

--

[Edited 10/10/10 5:46am]

IMO, With myself being part of the human race Prince has moved humanity forward.

During some very trying times in the past 30 years Princes' messages of love and unity have helped guide me thru stormy weather. The way in which I was able to navigagte some of the waters was directly linked to an awareness given to me by listening to certain Prince songs.

Beginning with two examples that come to mind are Walk don't run and New power Generation.

These two songs alone not only affected how I was dealing with some situations, but undoubtly left an effect on those that I was dealing with. It also served the purpose of setting an example for a younger generation, and what they might be capable of

Walk Don't Run

robinhood said:

TwiliteKid said:

I'm truly flabbergasted at some of the nonsense being spouted in this thread. He's a fucking pop singer kids.

he's a musician. ancient cultures understood the power of music.

i'm truly flabbergasted at how hard people will argue that he hasnt moved humanity forward'.

of course he did. he's not just a 'fucking pop singer'

he's PRINCE.

I know his name, thanks. He's still just a pop singer.

Prince has moved humanity forward, I suppose, if he's opened 1 person's mind to something, anything. About 1/58th of a billionth of a millimeter, which is about the same as every other human being in the world. Too bad he doesn't join us up here in this new incremental move forward and is stuck back in the philosophical dark ages.

Whether humanity "from individual to collective" moves forward or not is entirely humanity's choice.

Has Prince asked thought provoking questions, drawn attention to societal issues and encouraged love and happiness? Yes I think he has. And his audience is wider than your average Joe.

Tremolina said:

robinhood said:

i never challenged your point. you challenged mine. i only gave my opinion. i dont see the point in debating it. its just an opinion. i dont like arguing for the sake of it when it doesnt change anything.

if you think his music isnt that great from the 90's then so be it. it doesnt change my opinion. you agreed with my opinion anyway so i dont get what our discussion is even about.

sorry.

I get the sense that you feel personally attacked or something when you really aren't.

not at all. i dont understand why ur arguing the point with me when you already agreed with it.

you challenged my original post and i paid you the courtesy of replying, even though i didnt understand why you were agreeing with me one minute then arguing semantics the next.

but if you really wanna go there then sure, ok. today's music? what about it? in my opinion, prince moved humanity forward through his music, as part of a wave of performers, as i said in my original post, which you agreed with.

if 'humanity' dropped the ball, how does that change prince's contribution? it doesnt.

on one of your other points, about this being a discussion board, i agree its DISCUSSION board, not an 'argument board'.

you used the term 'realistically speaking', when you first responded to me. was that to suggest my post was unrealistic?

if you dont think he moved humanity forward then so be it, but why agree with me in the first place?

over-all, if the argument you were making was clear and not contradictory, then i guess i'd have an easier time discussing it with you. but so far you've challenged two of my responses to this thread, but for what purpose?

our opinions change nothing. they have no effect whatsoever on the impact prince made on music, as a musician, in the era he was born into, as part of a wave of musicians, who affected positive change for many, many people.

this isnt a courtroom. no one has to back up their 'claims'. we are not on witness stands. we are everyday people sharing our thoghts with each other and quite frankly, the 'challenging' and 'argumentative' approach some people take a really simple topic is not only unnecessary, but tiring, and ultimately futile.

i enjoy discussions. arguments? not so much. but if you'd like to spend precious moments of your life arguing then so be it. but it wont happen with me.

take care.

Do U think Prince has moved humanity forward through his music?

No...

I think he moved music forward though his humanity.

That's all.

TwiliteKid said:

I know his name, thanks. He's still just a pop singer.

you mean like Justin Bieber?

robinhood said:

TwiliteKid said:

I know his name, thanks. He's still just a pop singer.

you mean like Justin Bieber?

Yes, actually.

I don't mean to be flip here: Prince is/was a musical genius whose his best work broke new ground for pop, and he's my all time favourite artist, but that doesn't change the fact that that's all he is. The idea that his music has had some lasting, meaninful impact on humanity as a whole is laughable and naive.

So, yes. He may be more talented and more worthy of acclaim than Bieber, but when you break it down the essentials, he's just a pop singer, just like Justin Bieber.

TwiliteKid said:

robinhood said:

you mean like Justin Bieber?

Yes, actually.

I don't mean to be flip here: Prince is/was a musical genius whose his best work broke new ground for pop, and he's my all time favourite artist, but that doesn't change the fact that that's all he is. The idea that his music has had some lasting, meaninful impact on humanity as a whole is laughable and naive.

So, yes. He may be more talented and more worthy of acclaim than Bieber, but when you break it down the essentials, he's just a pop singer, just like Justin Bieber.

i've sat here for the last five minutes trying to think of something to say in response to you but its no use.

thanks for the chat. oh baby baby oh

in my opinion, prince moved humanity forward through his music, as part of a wave of performers, as i said in my original post, which you agreed with.

if 'humanity' dropped the ball, how does that change prince's contribution? it doesnt.

on one of your other points, about this being a discussion board, i agree its DISCUSSION board, not an 'argument board'.

you used the term 'realistically speaking', when you first responded to me. was that to suggest my post was unrealistic?

if you dont think he moved humanity forward then so be it, but why agree with me in the first place?

I think you misunderstand me. I said that I agree with you, that realistically speaking, the only way Prince could have moved humanity forward is through his music.

Not meaning that he did, but meaning not through any other means than his music, as was suggested at the beginning of this discussion.

I do not agree with you that Prince moved humanity forward through his music, despite all his talent and efforts.

The sad, yet simple fact is that the state of music has only declined since Prince had his reign. Prince himself has to agree with this too because he has been complaining about the sorry state of affairs for more than a decade as well.

This means that all that wonderful talent and music Prince has shared with us, has not lifted the rest of the music world up to higher levels.

What we have witnessed however is a record industry ruled by producers with an endless batch of useless singers and dancers that can't sing and are only there to sell records with good looks and sex. Everybody knows that it was Prince who did this first.

Now we can "argue", "discuss" or "debate" this untill eternity, but you know that is not necessary.

Realistically speaking Prince has NOT moved humanity forward through his music. Quite the contrary even.

That does not take away one bit from all the pleasure he gave so many people with his music. Nor does it take away the from the bits of wisdom he shared. But that is not the same as moving humanity forward. That's the same as what any other great singer or entertainer has done: enjoyed the people and that's it.

--

[Edited 10/11/10 4:34am]

Tremolina said:

What we have witnessed however is a record industry ruled by producers with an endless batch of useless singers and dancers that can't sing and are only there to sell records with good looks and sex. Everybody knows that it was Prince who did this first.

Now we can "argue", "discuss" or "debate" this untill eternity, but you know that is not necessary.

Realistically speaking Prince has NOT moved humanity forward through his music. Quite the contrary even.

That does not take away one bit from all the pleasure he gave so many people with his music. Nor does it take away the from the bits of wisdom he shared. But that is not the same as moving humanity forward. That's the same as what any other great singer or entertainer has done: enjoyed the people and that's it.

unfortunately many assume the commercial music industry to be the primary and most important industry for music simply because it gets the most attention.

and yet somewhere over the rainbow, 'blue birds fly', thanks to prince. and you know what they say.. one drop in the ocean, becomes the whole ocean.

i respect your opinion, but from where i sit, 'musical humanity' is a much bigger slice of pie than the tiny little commercial music industry of the old dying world.

how blinded we've become by the media smokescreen, allowing it to limit our vision to the point where we assume nothing else could possibly exist.

how obtuse we've become to think for a minute that the latest pop tarts qualify as being worthy of our consideration, or even a goal post, in a topic like this.

new can of worms: the universe is made of vibration. musicians are among the most powerful people on the planet. pity they dont know it.

leavin you guys to it for now. hope you enjoy the rest of your discussion. may it broaden your horizons.

robinhood said:

Tremolina said:

What we have witnessed however is a record industry ruled by producers with an endless batch of useless singers and dancers that can't sing and are only there to sell records with good looks and sex. Everybody knows that it was Prince who did this first.

Now we can "argue", "discuss" or "debate" this untill eternity, but you know that is not necessary.

Realistically speaking Prince has NOT moved humanity forward through his music. Quite the contrary even.

That does not take away one bit from all the pleasure he gave so many people with his music. Nor does it take away the from the bits of wisdom he shared. But that is not the same as moving humanity forward. That's the same as what any other great singer or entertainer has done: enjoyed the people and that's it.

unfortunately many assume the commercial music industry to be the primary and most important industry for music simply because it gets the most attention.

i respect your opinion, but from where i sit, 'musical humanity' is a much bigger slice of pie than the tiny little commercial music industry of the old dying world.

Yet it is that "tinly little part" of the musical world in which Prince plays his part, and which you credit as "moving humanity forward".

Socially speaking, the commercialised world of popular music is very much more relevant than any other niche part in music, precisely because it deals with the masses and not some alternative or elite branche that says little to nothing about the state of society as a whole.

"Society reflects art" or was it the other way around? Prince knows.

--

[Edited 10/11/10 7:47am]

robinhood said:

TwiliteKid said:

Yes, actually.

I don't mean to be flip here: Prince is/was a musical genius whose his best work broke new ground for pop, and he's my all time favourite artist, but that doesn't change the fact that that's all he is. The idea that his music has had some lasting, meaninful impact on humanity as a whole is laughable and naive.

So, yes. He may be more talented and more worthy of acclaim than Bieber, but when you break it down the essentials, he's just a pop singer, just like Justin Bieber.

i've sat here for the last five minutes trying to think of something to say in response to you but its no use.

thanks for the chat. oh baby baby oh

It's no use because your argument is completley without merit? Yes, I agree.

TwiliteKid said:

I'm truly flabbergasted at some of the nonsense being spouted in this thread. He's a fucking pop singer kids.

I take your message seriously, and you are right there is only so much of humanity's advances we can attribute to the song Little Red Corvette. I had to laugh though, when I read your comment being directed to kids with the use of your forum icon. I can actually hear that announcer's voice saying it. Hilarious. It sets me up to see Miss Piggy's 6 minute news segment, Scenes from the Glamerous Life.

Tremolina said:

robinhood said:

unfortunately many assume the commercial music industry to be the primary and most important industry for music simply because it gets the most attention.

i respect your opinion, but from where i sit, 'musical humanity' is a much bigger slice of pie than the tiny little commercial music industry of the old dying world.

Yet it is that "tinly little part" of the musical world in which Prince plays his part,

says who? and yeah. society does reflect art, but it might not be wise to assume that your idea of 'society' is the only society there is.

by the way, and no offense intended, but are you the guy who wont let me hang up the phone?

are you the guy who wont let me leave the room no matter how many times i head for the door?

are you the guy who keeps talking when i've turned my head the other way at least 4 times?

whilst i appreciate your desire to 'discuss' this issue and drive your point home repeatedly, i'm hoping you can appreciate my desire to walk away from this conversation.

i' ve already told you quite a few times. just not sure how you could've missed it?

or am i merely here to enable you to voice your opinion as an authoritative fact? just someone to rebound off so you can extrapolate in finite terms?

maybe there's someone else here who will be more than happy to go tit for tat with you on this subject.

for the 4th time ... "take care, i'll leave u guys to it, enjoy the rest of ur discussion" ...