Spinlight said:

NDRU said:

including Sign of the Times? So maybe it's a valid comparison?

Not including Sign o the Times.

Sign o the Times was released in 1987. Initial Prince-related fervor lent sales to his previous albums. Purple Rain had no visible effect on the sales of Sign o the Times, obviously, as it was released 3 years prior.

Ah, so you meant it had an effect on the sales of the pre-purple rain albums?

NDRU said:

Spinlight said:

Not including Sign o the Times.

Sign o the Times was released in 1987. Initial Prince-related fervor lent sales to his previous albums. Purple Rain had no visible effect on the sales of Sign o the Times, obviously, as it was released 3 years prior.

Ah, so you meant it had an effect on the sales of the pre-purple rain albums?

Yep.

And also consider that the figures we're listing here in this thread are updated and recent. The 4 million that SOTT is on record for selling was a lot less back when the album was relevant. 1999 got a huge boost from Purple Rain for several reasons, not the least of which would be the fact LRC was a hit and would still get MTV airplay alongside videos like LGC and WDC.

Spinlight said:

1999 got a huge boost from Purple Rain for several reasons, not the least of which would be the fact LRC was a hit and would still get MTV airplay alongside videos like LGC and WDC.

I confess that, after seeing and hearing Purple Rain, I ran immediately to the record store and stole 1999. But your point still stands!

ernestsewell said:

Marrk said:

BAD was out.

Not it at all. SOTT was released in March of 1987. BAD wasn't out until August or September, and SOTT film was released near the end of the year. SOTT had a huge head start on BAD. Prince didn't bother to put that much into it, esp once the European tour was over. He was over it.

However, to the original poster, again, 4 million is average for Prince. He's never been a HUGE record seller. There are exceptions - but those aren't the rule of thumb with him.

My take on SOTT sales...

SOTT sold "poorly" because Prince relied on the movie to promote the album. The Movie hit theaters nationwide in the US to dismal reviews because many people thought it would be Purple Rain #2. It was a concert movie, and when MTV aired the official Sign O the Times Video with just text, many people fell off the bandwagon. Prince's actions solidified his reputation for being "unrelatable" by not granting many interviews being reclusive. People just didn't get Prince and got tired of trying to figure him out. Only black radio stations played Adore, and If I was Your Girlfriend, the top 40 stations moved on to other more trendy songs by new artists, but Sign O The Times got lots of airtime back in the day and that was it.

The music sold itself to true music fans, most people just got bored with the movie (and all things Prince) and within one week many theaters stopped showing the movie due to poor ticket sales.

paintedlady said:

SOTT sold "poorly" because Prince relied on the movie to promote the album. The Movie hit theaters nationwide in the US to dismal reviews because many people thought it would be Purple Rain #2.

I think you are confusing Sign O' The Times with Under The Cherry Moon. Sign O' The Times (the film) received a limited release in the US and received outstanding/positive reviews.

skywalker said:

paintedlady said:

SOTT sold "poorly" because Prince relied on the movie to promote the album. The Movie hit theaters nationwide in the US to dismal reviews because many people thought it would be Purple Rain #2.

I think you are confusing Sign O' The Times with Under The Cherry Moon. Sign O' The Times (the film) received a limited release in the US and received outstanding/positive reviews.

Nope... not confusing the two. Under the Cherry Moon did OK considering many saw it as corny. Prince promoted Under the Cherry Moon heavily. Even did a contest for UTCM. Teen girls like me ate it up!

I was a teen, and I remember people complaining heavily about that SOTT being just a concert and they wanted a live tour and not the movie.

Critics like SOTT movie.... people didn't. If it was Limited release, then why did it play in every theater in Boston? They promoted SOTT like it was Purple Rain the second coming because of the music and WB didn't let on that it was a concert film, so the masses felt jilted. They wanted an actual movie, like PR. DJ's were cracking jokes about the empty theaters and that many managers pulled the movie after ONE week of showing it. That was the first time I ever heard of any movie lasting only one week, they didn't pump out movies back then like they do now so movies had a longer play run in theaters. Heck PR ran for 4 months in theaters here!

This is what I remember from that time period. The music was excellent on the double CD set, the critics said it was "classic Prince... better than PR" so people thought that the SOTT movie was a sequel to PR for some reason. People expected much from the SOTT movie because of the reviews.

People also complained about the cost of the SOTT album. People were not used to buying "double albums" back then and thought the price was ridiculus.

I was a teen then, and that demographic (MTV generation) was his target audience. Prince became UNPOPULAR when these teens found out it was a concert movie. It didn't go over too well here in the northeast.

It was the first time I heard Phrases like "Prince sucks... WTH is he thinking?" "First UTCM then this crap movie?"

Prince killed his "box office draw" with SOTT.... the final nail in the coffin would be Grafitti Bridge, and only ONE theater played that movie here when it came out. I had to travel to the damn suburbs to see that crap film.

LinnLM1 said:

It sold what it sold b/c:

(1) Prince's popularity was scaling downward by then. He lost a ton of momentum with ATWIAD and even moreso with Parade (despite Kiss being a hit). The general music buying public was majorly turned off by Prince's departure from his 1999/Purple Rain type sound. He traded his synth/New Wave/Funk/Rock sound (the MPLS Sound) for an "arty", more refined type sound.

and

(2) Prince was still viewed as a jerk by the public for not participating in "We Are The World" and for having Big Chick stand by him when he accepted awards at the Grammys, American Music Awards, and Oscars in '85. That came off horribly and turned people off.

and

(3) SOTT started off strong with the title track as the first single but then for some inexplicable reason Prince chose "If I Was Your Girlfriend" as the follow up single. That killed the album. IIWYG is a very good song within the context of the album but its not a commercial single - kinda like say "Ballad Of Dorothy Parker". IIWYG did poorly and the album never really recovered despite "U Got The Look" and "I Could Never Take The Place Of Your Man" doing well as the 3rd and 4th singles. I so wish Prince had chosen "U Got The Look" as the follow-up single instead of IIWYG. I believe SOTT would have sold much more if he had done that.

I've always thought that SOTT was Prince's last gasp of greatness and have wondered what would have happened to Prince's career if that album had done better commercially like it should have. I think it discouraged him that it didn't sell well and I also think he lost a little bit of confidence in himself. His studio engineers are on record as saying it was post-SOTT that they noticed his music was less inspired for the first time.

I remember the album came back to the Top 10 when I Could Never Take The Place Of Your Man hit the Top 10, like a year later of the official SOT release.

^ Then that must have been a problem limited to your area then.

SOTT was very clearly and consistently promoted as a "concert movie". Which is why it only got a very limited release, as it was not a 'proper movie' and would only have limited interest. I don't remember anyone mistaking it, or expecting it to be Purple Rain 2 anywhere. It was never promoted that way, and no previews or reviews ever even mentioned any comparison with Purple Rain.

I do know a lot of people didn't watch it because it was 'just a concert' and didn't see the point of going to the cinema to see a movie of a concert. . Concert movies were fairly common then, but they were always released straight to video. I certainly don't remember a straight concert movie being shown in theatres like that before, so it definitely was a very unusual situation.

.

[Edited 9/9/10 13:51pm]

thedance said:

^^ Afaik, the masterpiece Lovesexy was a flop in US but very successful in Europe. (UK #1).....

Come was also a #1 in the UK yet nobody ever calls it successful. The debut week is more due to the artists' fanbase and his previous achievements (and is affected by the competition). It's definitely not because of "Alphabet St." or the album itself that it managed to be a #1 debut. It's often mentioned because of the dismal US peak (outside the top 10 ) and because the tour did better in Europe, but I really don't think Lovesexy was an actual hit album in Europe.

Don't know for sure, but I guess SOTT would've sold much better if he had recorded it with a real band...

[Edited 9/9/10 5:01am]

paintedlady said:

skywalker said:

I think you are confusing Sign O' The Times with Under The Cherry Moon. Sign O' The Times (the film) received a limited release in the US and received outstanding/positive reviews.

Nope... not confusing the two. Under the Cherry Moon did OK considering many saw it as corny. Prince promoted Under the Cherry Moon heavily. Even did a contest for UTCM. Teen girls like me ate it up!

I was a teen, and I remember people complaining heavily about that SOTT being just a concert and they wanted a live tour and not the movie.

Critics like SOTT movie.... people didn't. If it was Limited release, then why did it play in every theater in Boston? They promoted SOTT like it was Purple Rain the second coming because of the music and WB didn't let on that it was a concert film, so the masses felt jilted. They wanted an actual movie, like PR. DJ's were cracking jokes about the empty theaters and that many managers pulled the movie after ONE week of showing it. That was the first time I ever heard of any movie lasting only one week, they didn't pump out movies back then like they do now so movies had a longer play run in theaters. Heck PR ran for 4 months in theaters here!

This is what I remember from that time period. The music was excellent on the double CD set, the critics said it was "classic Prince... better than PR" so people thought that the SOTT movie was a sequel to PR for some reason. People expected much from the SOTT movie because of the reviews.

People also complained about the cost of the SOTT album. People were not used to buying "double albums" back then and thought the price was ridiculus.

I was a teen then, and that demographic (MTV generation) was his target audience. Prince became UNPOPULAR when these teens found out it was a concert movie. It didn't go over too well here in the northeast.

It was the first time I heard Phrases like "Prince sucks... WTH is he thinking?" "First UTCM then this crap movie?"

Prince killed his "box office draw" with SOTT.... the final nail in the coffin would be Grafitti Bridge, and only ONE theater played that movie here when it came out. I had to travel to the damn suburbs to see that crap film.

I disagree.The SOTT concert didn't have much to do with the album sales at all.The album sales suffered because of several factors.He released an offbeat second single ("If I Was Your Girlfriend") which sent the album tumbling down the charts at a rapid pace.In the late summer of '87,the more conventional "U Got The Look" was released as a single and the album began climbing back up the charts.The third single "I Could Never Take The Place Of Your Man" kept the momentum going,but at this point,Prince was done with the project.He was busy preparing 'The Black Album' for release when he should have been concentrating on a US tour.If he had toured in the fall/winter of 87 and released more singles throughout the first half of 1988 (which Warners wanted to do),the album would have done so much better.He gave up the project too soon.

It's sad because Prince didn't seem to realize how much momentum he had with this album.In my area,even the non-singles ("Housequake","Hot Thing","Adore") were getting heavy airplay on the R&B stations.A US tour in the fall of '87 would have been the icing on the cake.

Regarding the SOTT concert film....it suffered from a hasty release and lack of promotion.It wasn't even distributed by Warner Films.Prince chose a smaller distributor which meant that promotional dollars were limited.That's why it didn't do very well,not because people thought it would be another Purple Rain!

....

[Edited 9/10/10 4:58am]

paintedlady said:

My take on SOTT sales...

SOTT sold "poorly" because Prince relied on the movie to promote the album. The Movie hit theaters nationwide in the US to dismal reviews because many people thought it would be Purple Rain #2. It was a concert movie, and when MTV aired the official Sign O the Times Video with just text, many people fell off the bandwagon. Prince's actions solidified his reputation for being "unrelatable" by not granting many interviews being reclusive. People just didn't get Prince and got tired of trying to figure him out. Only black radio stations played Adore, and If I was Your Girlfriend, the top 40 stations moved on to other more trendy songs by new artists, but Sign O The Times got lots of airtime back in the day and that was it.

The music sold itself to true music fans, most people just got bored with the movie (and all things Prince) and within one week many theaters stopped showing the movie due to poor ticket sales.

"dismal reviews"? I seem to recall the SOTT concert film getting better reviews than the other three Prince films combined!

paintedlady said:

If it was Limited release, then why did it play in every theater in Boston?

By limited release, I think they mean only major cities. Boston is a major city.

Down here in Jackson, Mississippi, we did get the movie in only one theater but it was what we called "The Dollar Theater" at the time. This theater would play a few movies after they had recently left the regular theaters and only charge a dollar for you to see them. Both "Purple Rain" and "Under The Cherry Moon" played in the regular theaters down here and opened on the same night that they opened nationwide. "Sign O The Times" didn't and once it got older, then it went straight to the dollar theater.

SoulAlive said:

paintedlady said:

My take on SOTT sales...

SOTT sold "poorly" because Prince relied on the movie to promote the album. The Movie hit theaters nationwide in the US to dismal reviews because many people thought it would be Purple Rain #2. It was a concert movie, and when MTV aired the official Sign O the Times Video with just text, many people fell off the bandwagon. Prince's actions solidified his reputation for being "unrelatable" by not granting many interviews being reclusive. People just didn't get Prince and got tired of trying to figure him out. Only black radio stations played Adore, and If I was Your Girlfriend, the top 40 stations moved on to other more trendy songs by new artists, but Sign O The Times got lots of airtime back in the day and that was it.

The music sold itself to true music fans, most people just got bored with the movie (and all things Prince) and within one week many theaters stopped showing the movie due to poor ticket sales.

"dismal reviews"? I seem to recall the SOTT concert film getting better reviews than the other three Prince films combined!

Critics loved SOTT.... the fans didn't, many didn't.

People, regular people thought it was corny, they hated the movie. I'm going by what I saw as a fan.

[Edited 9/9/10 7:17am]

vainandy said:

paintedlady said:

If it was Limited release, then why did it play in every theater in Boston?

By limited release, I think they mean only major cities. Boston is a major city.

Down here in Jackson, Mississippi, we did get the movie in only one theater but it was what we called "The Dollar Theater" at the time. This theater would play a few movies after they had recently left the regular theaters and only charge a dollar for you to see them. Both "Purple Rain" and "Under The Cherry Moon" played in the regular theaters down here and opened on the same night that they opened nationwide. "Sign O The Times" didn't and once it got older, then it went straight to the dollar theater.

Ok... I understand now. As a teen I saw those posters EVERYWHERE! That poster with Cat with the heart over the face was on every billboard and that poster was widely circulated here.

paintedlady said:

SoulAlive said:

"dismal reviews"? I seem to recall the SOTT concert film getting better reviews than the other three Prince films combined!

Critics loved SOTT.... the fans didn't, many didn't.

People, regular people thought it was corny, they hated the movie. I'm going by what I saw as a fan.

[Edited 9/9/10 7:17am]

Everyone I knew that saw the SOTT movie, even if they hated Prince, thought it was cool. I've never heard any bad word of mouth from the few that saw it back in the day. I personally saw it afterwards at a university theater screening after the real release.

paintedlady said:

skywalker said:

I think you are confusing Sign O' The Times with Under The Cherry Moon. Sign O' The Times (the film) received a limited release in the US and received outstanding/positive reviews.

Nope... not confusing the two. Under the Cherry Moon did OK considering many saw it as corny. Prince promoted Under the Cherry Moon heavily. Even did a contest for UTCM. Teen girls like me ate it up!

I was a teen, and I remember people complaining heavily about that SOTT being just a concert and they wanted a live tour and not the movie.

Critics like SOTT movie.... people didn't. If it was Limited release, then why did it play in every theater in Boston? They promoted SOTT like it was Purple Rain the second coming because of the music and WB didn't let on that it was a concert film, so the masses felt jilted. They wanted an actual movie, like PR. DJ's were cracking jokes about the empty theaters and that many managers pulled the movie after ONE week of showing it. That was the first time I ever heard of any movie lasting only one week, they didn't pump out movies back then like they do now so movies had a longer play run in theaters. Heck PR ran for 4 months in theaters here!

This is what I remember from that time period. The music was excellent on the double CD set, the critics said it was "classic Prince... better than PR" so people thought that the SOTT movie was a sequel to PR for some reason. People expected much from the SOTT movie because of the reviews.

People also complained about the cost of the SOTT album. People were not used to buying "double albums" back then and thought the price was ridiculus.

I was a teen then, and that demographic (MTV generation) was his target audience. Prince became UNPOPULAR when these teens found out it was a concert movie. It didn't go over too well here in the northeast.

It was the first time I heard Phrases like "Prince sucks... WTH is he thinking?" "First UTCM then this crap movie?"

Prince killed his "box office draw" with SOTT.... the final nail in the coffin would be Grafitti Bridge, and only ONE theater played that movie here when it came out. I had to travel to the damn suburbs to see that crap film.

I guess a lot of what you are saying is how things were for you/from your perspective as a teenage girl in Boston, etc.

The fact is, the movie was NOT promoted as Purple Rain 2. It was touted as a concert film. Maybe you and your peer group thought it was a proper movie, and not a concert film, but there was not some secret swindle in the marketing. Check the tag line on the poster.

It was limited release, but Boston is a major market city. The film simply wasn't promoted as heavily as Purple Rain or Under The Cherry Moon. It was not the success that Purple Rain was, nor was it the thunderous flop that was Under The Cherry Moon.

skywalker said:

paintedlady said:

I guess a lot of what you are saying is how things were for you/from your perspective as a teenage girl in Boston, etc.

The fact is, the movie was NOT promoted as Purple Rain 2. It was touted as a concert film. Maybe you and your peer group thought it was a proper movie, and not a concert film, but there was not some secret swindle in the marketing. Check the tag line on the poster.

It was limited release, but Boston is a major market city. The film simply wasn't promoted as heavily as Purple Rain or Under The Cherry Moon. It was not the success that Purple Rain was, nor was it the thunderous flop that was Under The Cherry Moon.

that was how I perceived it, too. I was still a kid, but UTCM was promoted on MTV and was a huge flop, panned by everyone (except some girls I knew who loved Prince)

I did not even know Sign of the Times was a movie until after it was not in the theater anymore

BorisFishpaw said:

^ Then that must have been a problem limited to your area then.

I certainly don't remember a straight concert movie being shown in theatres like that before, so it definitely was a very unusual situation.

stop making sense - talking heads.

[Edited 9/9/10 11:52am]

ufoclub said:

paintedlady said:

Critics loved SOTT.... the fans didn't, many didn't.

People, regular people thought it was corny, they hated the movie. I'm going by what I saw as a fan.

[Edited 9/9/10 7:17am]

Everyone I knew that saw the SOTT movie, even if they hated Prince, thought it was cool. I've never heard any bad word of mouth from the few that saw it back in the day. I personally saw it afterwards at a university theater screening after the real release.

It was the opposite experience for me. Back then lots of older guys I knew that DJ'd and follwed Prince decided to stop. Nubian Notions in Boston was the most loyal Prince promoter of his music and that Store was your go to place for any Prince and Prince related material. Well, the owner told me that they were dissappointed.

"Who makes a movie about a concert? Why not just tour? What a jip!" (ripoff) and this was the common feeling among Purple heads in Boston. People were done with Prince with the SOTT movie and they didn't "get" his music when it came out.

I myself grew to love the SOTT CD later on.... but everyone loved the song Adore. Folks thought Prince was dumb for not putting Adore out as a single so many bootleggers sold it seperately.

It took me weeks to save up enough cash to buy my SOTT CD. and at Nubian Notions, Skippy White's and Strawberries... SOTT was NOT selling. Those copies stayed on the shelves. I think it was because it was pricey considering the fact that people just were not used to buying double albums/cassettes. I lived in record stores back then.

I am sure it was just regional... its cool to hear that folks liked SOTT in your area from day one.

paintedlady said:

vainandy said:

By limited release, I think they mean only major cities. Boston is a major city.

Down here in Jackson, Mississippi, we did get the movie in only one theater but it was what we called "The Dollar Theater" at the time. This theater would play a few movies after they had recently left the regular theaters and only charge a dollar for you to see them. Both "Purple Rain" and "Under The Cherry Moon" played in the regular theaters down here and opened on the same night that they opened nationwide. "Sign O The Times" didn't and once it got older, then it went straight to the dollar theater.

Ok... I understand now. As a teen I saw those posters EVERYWHERE! That poster with Cat with the heart over the face was on every billboard and that poster was widely circulated here.

Those were posters for the single release, not the movie.

The movie poster was the same shot of Prince playing the guitar that was used on the subsequent video and DVD covers.

BorisFishpaw said:

paintedlady said:

Ok... I understand now. As a teen I saw those posters EVERYWHERE! That poster with Cat with the heart over the face was on every billboard and that poster was widely circulated here.

Those were posters for the single release, not the movie.

The movie poster was the same shot of Prince playing the guitar that was used on the subsequent video and DVD covers.

Yes, but that poster (Cat's image)caused people to speculate if it was Prince in drag, and it generated lots of interest. So that image was the more popular image, I seen the other poster (Prince playing guitar) on the larger billboards downtown, but on the busses, magazines, papers and windows of record stores and Pi Alley (Movie house) was Cat's Poster.

It was a great image!

I blame Wendy and Lisas arty influence on the under-achieving albums ATWIAD and Parade! they got him into 60s hippy music and he gave up on his new wave/rock sound

end of the day.....it didnt sell poorly....it sold 4 million at the time and was critically acclaimed...it is seen as one of the greatest albums of the 80s and prince was at his creative peak....it was TOO GOOD to sell 20 million imo...purple rain was great because it had mass appeal and it was a damn good album but it isnt as good or has the eclectic appeal that sign o the times has....i remember playing this album for months in 1987 and never tiring of hearing how brilliant it was...he was just soo good at this time...the drum programme on forever in my life.....the brilliant madness of speeded up vocals and backward organs of if i was your girlfriend...the stunningly catchy pop of i could never take the place of your man turning into some grateful dead type breakdown before coming back to the pop on the outro....then you have the cross....starfish and coffee...and closing with adore....cant get any better than this...

blackbob said:

end of the day.....it didnt sell poorly....it sold 4 million at the time and was critically acclaimed

It did not sell 4 million at the time. It has sold 4 million as of 2010.

Bainne said:

I blame Wendy and Lisas arty influence on the under-achieving albums ATWIAD and Parade! they got him into 60s hippy music and he gave up on his new wave/rock sound

Wow, that's pretty off...

I think nobody should blame the girls for anything. Instead we all should praise them forever for being the most important musical influence on Prince EVER.

FunkyDissCo said:

Bainne said:

I blame Wendy and Lisas arty influence on the under-achieving albums ATWIAD and Parade! they got him into 60s hippy music and he gave up on his new wave/rock sound

Wow, that's pretty off...

I think nobody should blame the girls for anything. Instead we all should praise them forever for being the most important musical influence on Prince EVER.

lmao, no

bigd74 said:

I can't believe that people think the singles were poor choices, i think they were perfect choices and probably the most commercial on the album. IWNTTPOYM, UGTL, IIWYG and SOTT were catchy pop songs, it would have worked as well as the others.

You really think that "If I Was Your Girlfriend" was a good choice for a single? I love this song,but it's NOT commercial at all.Radio programmers were afraid of this tune.