For those wondering, the Montreal 'jazz' gig has been circulating for ages at least in two different releases.

Couldn't say which one is more incomplete, chopped and crappy sounding.

They're both fierce contenders for these dubious honors.

[Edited 8/23/10 15:06pm]

databank said:

I can hardly agree to Xpectation being called "elevator music". I saw David Sanborn live last year and this was elevator music. Kenny G records are elevator music. Xpectation, weither one like it or not, was a bit more ambitious than that.

Xpectation is a great album. The music really is sophisticated and it sounds quite rough and wild even though it's not (and doesn't try to be) Bitches' Brew or an Alice Coltrane album. I really think that Prince surpassed himself with this one, and his band is tight and very talented. Once again it's not a major album in regards of the 70 years of jazz history that precessed it, but from the perspective of Prince's career it's really impressive. Obviously Prince chose to release it online because he knew that his audience wouldn't follow (neither 8, 16, Times Squared or N.E.W.S. sold well) but if you put in in perspective and compare it to Musicology, 3121 or Planet Earth to name a few, where Prince just does what he knows how to do, it's really a daring album. Another interesting aspect is that Prince takes Rhonda and Candy way beyond the limits of what they do in their own solo careers.

[Edited 8/23/10 15:03pm]

Enjoyed reading your review, even if I don't share your same sentiment on many of the albums, I most definitely agree with you on Xpectation.

Briefly on where we disagree, I think NEWS is OK at best. Too much meandering without real songs, but it does have a few moments. I also think CNOTE and Karmasutra are absolute train wrecks. (Obviously not trying to argue, they just don't work for me at all).

Xpectation is where we strongly agree. It has quite a few good songs to my ears as well. I do wish he had left Xenophobia on there as the album certainly could have benefitted from having another track with some nice lead guitar. That being said, the arrangements are tight and the actual song structures on most of the album are quite compelling. Great drum and bass work too.

Sometimes the addition of the violins feels forced/dated. Like I'm listening to a bad King Crimson album. But there are moments where their addition adds a nice balance too. Witout a doubt, Xpectation is my fav of the 2000 instrumental albums.

^Xpectation would only need -apart from the title track being included- that Vanessa Mae's butt was kicked before entering the studio in such a way that made her land several solar systems away, so that it wasn't easy for her to crawl back to the studio. Then it would be perfect... for Prince's standards.

N.E.W.S could be an interesting album but he fucked it up with the 4x14" thing. The different musical ideas explored on the performances, should have been split into several shorter independent tracks. And possibly would've needed to be credited to Madhouse.

I agree on C Note and Kakasutra.

[Edited 8/23/10 15:31pm]

[Edited 8/23/10 15:32pm]

Fenwick said:

databank said:

I can hardly agree to Xpectation being called "elevator music". I saw David Sanborn live last year and this was elevator music. Kenny G records are elevator music. Xpectation, weither one like it or not, was a bit more ambitious than that.

Xpectation is a great album. The music really is sophisticated and it sounds quite rough and wild even though it's not (and doesn't try to be) Bitches' Brew or an Alice Coltrane album. I really think that Prince surpassed himself with this one, and his band is tight and very talented. Once again it's not a major album in regards of the 70 years of jazz history that precessed it, but from the perspective of Prince's career it's really impressive. Obviously Prince chose to release it online because he knew that his audience wouldn't follow (neither 8, 16, Times Squared or N.E.W.S. sold well) but if you put in in perspective and compare it to Musicology, 3121 or Planet Earth to name a few, where Prince just does what he knows how to do, it's really a daring album. Another interesting aspect is that Prince takes Rhonda and Candy way beyond the limits of what they do in their own solo careers.

[Edited 8/23/10 15:03pm]

Enjoyed reading your review, even if I don't share your same sentiment on many of the albums, I most definitely agree with you on Xpectation.

Briefly on where we disagree, I think NEWS is OK at best. Too much meandering without real songs, but it does have a few moments. I also think CNOTE and Karmasutra are absolute train wrecks. (Obviously not trying to argue, they just don't work for me at all).

Xpectation is where we strongly agree. It has quite a few good songs to my ears as well. I do wish he had left Xenophobia on there as the album certainly could have benefitted from having another track with some nice lead guitar. That being said, the arrangements are tight and the actual song structures on most of the album are quite compelling. Great drum and bass work too.

Sometimes the addition of the violins feels forced/dated. Like I'm listening to a bad King Crimson album. But there are moments where their addition adds a nice balance too. Witout a doubt, Xpectation is my fav of the 2000 instrumental albums.

Kamasutra is definitely corny and on the fringe of complete disaster at some points, i cannot resolve myself to fight for this record even though i enjoyed it 12 years ago. I'm listening to it right now (hadn't done it in a long while) and stuff like Barcelona is so ridiculous that it just makes me wanna laugh I'm quite sure that the whole thing could have made sense if completely re-recorded with Clare Fischer's orchestra (Coincidence Or Fate isn't worse than many films soundtracks), but these stupid cheap synths and kitsch arrangements just kill the whole record!!!

As for N.E.W.S., i completely agree with you: it IS meandering, and that's exactly why i love it, but i do like meandering music in general: i like when it goes beyond a classical song structure and music gets wherever it just happen to go without an obvious plan. So here it's really a matter of personnal taste in the end...

vitriol said:

^Xpectation would only need that Vanessa Mae's butt was kicked before entering the studio in such a way that made her land several solar systems away.

N.E.W.S could be an interesting album but he fucked it up with the 4x14" thing. The different musical ideas explored on the performances, should have been split into several shorter independent tracks.

As said above, i like them long and meandering, i think that splitting them into several tracks would ruin the whole narrative aspects of these instrumentals. But i DO see a cohesiveness inside each of them and then maybe that's just me

I agree on C Note and Kakasutra.

Not sure if u did it on purpose but "Caca" means "poo" in Franch, so "Kakasutra" definitely is funny for my french ears

vitriol said:

^Xpectation would only need -apart from the title track being included- that Vanessa Mae's butt was kicked before entering the studio in such a way that made her land several solar systems away, so that it wasn't easy for her to crawl back to the studio. Then it would be perfect... for Prince's standards.

N.E.W.S could be an interesting album but he fucked it up with the 4x14" thing. The different musical ideas explored on the performances, should have been split into several shorter independent tracks. And possibly would've needed to be credited to Madhouse.

I agree on C Note and Kakasutra.

[Edited 8/23/10 15:31pm]

[Edited 8/23/10 15:32pm]

Greatness. She definitely takes away more than she adds for me. But there were a few moments that worked.

And we feel the same way about NEWS. It could/should have worked better but he got too cute. You can't have it be a "adventures in new music with no boundaries" concept and then put four songs of the exact same length out.

^Especially when if you don't reach the desired length on a given track you... you just fill it WITH WIND SOUNDS!!

He should forget numerology and pyramid science for a bit and just make some music.

databank said:

Fenwick said:

Kamasutra is definitely corny and on the fringe of complete disaster at some points, i cannot resolve myself to fight for this record even though i enjoyed it 12 years ago. I'm listening to it right now (hadn't done it in a long while) and stuff like Barcelona is so ridiculous that it just makes me wanna laugh I'm quite sure that the whole thing could have made sense if completely re-recorded with Clare Fischer's orchestra (Coincidence Or Fate isn't worse than many films soundtracks), but these stupid cheap synths and kitsch arrangements just kill the whole record!!!

As for N.E.W.S., i completely agree with you: it IS meandering, and that's exactly why i love it, but i do like meandering music in general: i like when it goes beyond a classical song structure and music gets wherever it just happen to go without an obvious plan. So here it's really a matter of personnal taste in the end...

I like meandering at times too. I mentioned King Crimson before, and they have a TON of stuff that meanders all over the place. I dig a lot of their stuff.

It's just that the meandering on NEWS isn't Lewis and Clark meandering for me. It feels more like trying to meander down the street on a sit and spin.

Of course, my spelling of Cacasutra is the one you suspected. The same for Lady Caca...

vitriol said:

^Especially when if you don't reach the desired length on a given track you... you just fill it WITH WIND SOUNDS!!

He should forget numerology and pyramid science for a bit and just make some music.

C'mon Vitriol, u DO KNOW that u're being too harsh on Prince on this one, as in "bad faith", don't u?

Well, on the other hand what could i expect from someone who chose "vitriol" as an orgname?

vitriol said:

Of course, my spelling of Cacasutra is the one you suspected. The same for Lady Caca...

I'll follow you on Lady Caca

databank said:

Well, on the other hand what could i expect from someone who chose "vitriol" as an orgname?

Bingo! You got me! My words can burn the eyes of those who read them at times...

In fact, when I found my current avatar, I was undecided between Regan from 'The Exorcist' or the nurse from 'One flew over the cuckoo's nest'.

..and now that I think of it, the maid from Hitchcock's 'Rebecca' would've also made a great choice!!

The Flesh Sessions would be great to hear, and one day i really hope we do.

Some info from The Vault for those who do not know or may not have heard of these recordings...

The Flesh Sessions took place at Sunset Sound Studio in late '85 early '86. The sessions were regarded as a forerunner to the Madhouse project, with the focus being on "jazz" flavoured instrumental music. An album was assembled on 22nd Jan '86, which contained a 20 minute piece titled Junk Music. Other tracks were Up From Below, Y'All Want Some More? and A Couple Of Miles.

However, no test pressings were made and the album was aborted when other projects demanded Prince's attention.

Also as mentioned in databanks post, the 8 Loring Park instrumentals are to my ears fantastic stuff.

I knew i was going to enjoy these the first time i heard them and with each subsequent listen i like them more and more, they sound so fresh even by todays standards. As mentioned by databank, for a trio of guys so young these "jams" sound very accomplished.

Bobby Z's drumming is quite a surprise on these recordings, he is a far better drummer than i thought he was.

It would be great to have these recordings in BOC quality one day (not that the current circulating recordings are bad), one can only hope.

Does anyone know the lineup for The Flesh Sessions?

I assume Eric Leeds was involved?

Can someone give me the full lineup?

MikeyB71 said:

Does anyone know the lineup for The Flesh Sessions?

I assume Eric Leeds was involved?

Can someone give me the full lineup?

Replying to my own question here, but i found some info i can share if anyone is interested.

The Flesh Sessions featured Prince, Eric leeds, Sheila E and Levi Seacer Jr. Prince played guitar and piano during the recordings.

8 instrumentals were recorded, Slaughterhouse, U just Can't Stop, Run Amok, Mobile, Madrid, Breathless, High Calonic and 12 Keys. The titles were temporary as some tracks were given new titles when The Flesh album was assembled.

Also in early '86, Wendy, Lisa and her brother Jonathan joined the Flesh Sessions lineup and recorded more tracks, included in these was Junk Music which was edited down to 20 minutes from it's original 45 minute length.

[Edited 8/23/10 17:01pm]

^Here you go:

THE FLESH SESSIONS

-Paisley Jam (Dec 28th 85)

Musicians: Eric Leeds (sax), Sheila E (drums), Levi Seacer jr (Bass), Prince (guitar and piano)

Tracks: “Slaughterhouse”, “U Just Can’t Stop”, “Run Amok”, “Mobile”, “Madrid”, “Breathless”, “High Calonic” and “12 Keys”

Eric was called in the following day for sax and flute overdubs

-Second Jam (Dec 30th 85)

Same line-up.

Tracks: “U Gotta Shake Something”, “Voodoo Who” and “Finest Whiskey”

-Everybody's Jam (Jan 5th 86) A 7 hour session

Musicians: Wendy (guitar & bass) & Jonathan Melvoin (percussion), Lisa Coleman (piano), Prince (mainly drums), Eric Leeds (saxes), Sheila E. (percussion) and Levi Seacer jr (bass).

Tracks: “Groove In C Minor”, “Slow Groove In G Major”, “Groove In G Flat Minor”, “Junk Music”, “Up From Below” and “Y’all Want Some More”.

'Junk Music' was edited from the original 45' version to the 20' version that covered the full side one on the never released album.

The track 'A couple of Miles' (honouring Miles Davis) that was also slated for the album was recorded on Dec 26th 85.

Honestly, I don't see any of us listening to these jewels even if we lived 3 lifetimes...

^^Aw, Mickey! You posted while I was still typing!!

^ Thanks vitriol, i found the info before you had time to post, it is such a shame we will probably never get to hear those sessions.

^And the fact that we actually got 'U gotta shake something' as an appetizer makes me want'em even more!!

vitriol said:

^And the fact that we actually got 'U gotta shake something' as an appetizer makes me want'em even more!!

And with U Gotta Shake Something being in such good quality too is even more of a tease.

^The fact of having some seconds of 'Junk Music' on UTCM instead of the original 45' or even the edited 20' is not exactly 'solacing'.

(BTW, those seconds are played after Life can be so nice, during the car race -chapter 16 on the DVD- and NOT when Prince and Tricky are discussing the type of man Mary prefers as stated by Per Nilsen. Tha's the instrumental version of 'It's a wonderful day'.)

vitriol said:

^The fact of having some seconds of 'Junk Music' on UTCM instead of the original 45' or even the edited 20' is not exactly 'solacing'.

(BTW, those seconds are played after Life can be so nice, during the car race -chapter 16 on the DVD- and NOT when Prince and Tricky are discussing the type of man Mary prefers as stated by Per Nilsen. Tha's the instrumental version of 'It's a wonderful day'.)

Thanks.

vitriol said:

For those wondering, the Montreal 'jazz' gig has been circulating for ages at least in two different releases.

Couldn't say which one is more incomplete, chopped and crappy sounding.

They're both fierce contenders for these dubious honors.

[Edited 8/23/10 15:06pm]

jazz and run seems to be complete, the other one "montreal jazz festival 2001" looks incomplete to me. i don't think i've listened to this since it came out, likewise the other one, probably as the sound is so crap

Jazz N Run

Montreal International Jazz Festival

Salle Wilfried-Pelletier, Montreal

6th July 2001

• Disc 1

1. Instrumental 2. The Ballad Of Dorothy Parker - Four 3. Instrumental 4. Eye'magettin' 5. Instrumental 6. Girls And Boys 7. Instrumental 8. Talkin' Loud And Sayin' Nothing 9. Forever In My Life 10. A Case Of You 11. Najee Solo 12. John Blackwell Solo

• Disc 2

1. Intro 2. Uptown 3. Controversy 4. Let's Work 5. The Work, Part 1 6. Cream 7. Little Red Corvette 8. I Wanna Be Your Lover 9. Sexy Dancer 10. Housequake 11. I Could Never Take The Place Of Your Man 12. Do Me, Baby 13. Scandalous 14. Diamonds And Pearls 15. The Beautiful Ones 16. Nothing Compares 2 U

PurpleLove7 said:

ernestsewell said:

Why? Look at how much material all that entails. Plus after the Madhouse set, it's just garbage. Never was such a boring period as that early 00's period where he was dishing out that rubbish. I partially blame it on Reneto Nato's (sp) presence. Prince claims to be this funky man, and then he plays this horrid shit that even the most desperate steak house would reject as piped in music.

For me - no thanks.

It may have not been your taste ernest but, I on the other hand love when P does Jazz or I should say experimental Jazz.

Pur-lease. This "look mom I'm doing jazz" nonsense is so prevalent in musicians thinking they're above all that "pop shit" that made them rich and famous in the first place. It isn't good and it isn't clever and it isn't interesting.

BartVanHemelen said:

PurpleLove7 said:

It may have not been your taste ernest but, I on the other hand love when P does Jazz or I should say experimental Jazz.

Pur-lease. This "look mom I'm doing jazz" nonsense is so prevalent in musicians thinking they're above all that "pop shit" that made them rich and famous in the first place. It isn't good and it isn't clever and it isn't interesting.

Your point of view, not mine ...

PurpleLove7 said:

BartVanHemelen said:

Pur-lease. This "look mom I'm doing jazz" nonsense is so prevalent in musicians thinking they're above all that "pop shit" that made them rich and famous in the first place. It isn't good and it isn't clever and it isn't interesting.

Your point of view, not mine ...

But a popular one. Prince isn't a jazz musician, and he's not even really a funk musician. He can play funk songs, but that's not his main thrust. Prince should stay away from jazz. It's boring as all fuckery to hear some old pop star "experimenting" with jazz music. I can't think of anything less interesting. It puts the "mental" in "experiMENTAL" music.

ernestsewell said:

PurpleLove7 said:

Your point of view, not mine ...

But a popular one. Prince isn't a jazz musician, and he's not even really a funk musician. He can play funk songs, but that's not his main thrust. Prince should stay away from jazz. It's boring as all fuckery to hear some old pop star "experimenting" with jazz music. I can't think of anything less interesting. It puts the "mental" in "experiMENTAL" music.

LoL ... Again, you said 'I' we are not going agree about that. When it comes to music in my past I 'adopted' what I loved about music from other sources or areas (personally). I know Prince is not a true Jazz artist or Funk artist. I know his music is mostly 'Pop'.

You know you always have my respect (Bart and Ernest) I believe you to are a valuable resource when it comes to musical knowledge and Prince's music career. [img:$uid]http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/77.gif[/img:$uid] *seriously*

ernestsewell said:

PurpleLove7 said:

Your point of view, not mine ...

But a popular one. Prince isn't a jazz musician, and he's not even really a funk musician. He can play funk songs, but that's not his main thrust. Prince should stay away from jazz. It's boring as all fuckery to hear some old pop star "experimenting" with jazz music. I can't think of anything less interesting. It puts the "mental" in "experiMENTAL" music.

I've enjoyed most of prince's instumental work. i don't care whether it is labeled jazz or whatever. Prince should do exactly what his heart tells him do. If its "jazz" or polka its for him to decide. I'm sure if u were to play your music to the org in general there would be many who would want u do something else or be silent altogether. But that would be beside the point because art is for the artist to make. The rest of us are just shouting from the peanut gallery..

tricky99 said:

I've enjoyed most of prince's instumental work. i don't care whether it is labeled jazz or whatever. Prince should do exactly what his heart tells him do. If its "jazz" or polka its for him to decide. I'm sure if u were to play your music to the org in general there would be many who would want u do something else or be silent altogether. But that would be beside the point because art is for the artist to make. The rest of us are just shouting from the peanut gallery..

It's still garbage.