Uptown said:

That just what i was gonna say to: what makes Prince so much more then an average musician is his ability to create. It's easy (to a deagree) to play the music, It's a whole other thing to create it.I'm sure Prince could play any music you put in front of him. It's his skill of creation that makes him like no other.

P2daP said:

You know it. I just saw Billy Joel last week and he's the same way. Monster Piano player for sure, but I personally know several people that can play all of his songs just as good as he (except for Root Beer Rags, I don't know ANYONE who can play that). But the point is Billy came up with the sound in the first place which makes him a great musician. Copycat is fairly EASY. If one wants to second guess Prince's guitar efforts have em check out "If I had a Harem" from Livesexy, or "My Guitar Gently Weeps" from HOF induction. That should shut em up...

It's music. You get virtuosos who never write a single piece of great music and then you get three stringed hobos that make fantastic music.

A handful of chords is all you need to speak to people.

He has been a jack of all trades master of none. However he has his own unique sound and his music has appealed to all sorts of people with all sorts of tastes.

I think he's wonderful. A like the whole package despite the fact that there are other musicians that I listen to that I would class as better players/composers.

I now wait for chilli to pick up on the 'package' comment...

Does anybody stop and think that perhaps it's just 'the thing to say' when talking about Prince and his ability?

"Don't you just love Prince?" "More than life itself," came the reply.

Perhaps it's just ingrained within public opinion to refer to Prince as fantastic in the same way that everyone is supposed to love parfait?

iloveannie said:

Well I remember reading an article in Guitar Player magazine which stated that Prince's image has really hidden the fact that he is a tremendous Guitar player. It had some of his music and challenged guitarists to "just try playing these licks". What I find is that most Prince fans will think he's great musician while most non prince fans will not think much of him as a musician. People that REALLY know music though, and I would say that successful musicians in their own right qualify in that regard, almost 100% comment on how good of a musician he is whether they like his music or not.

if anyone wants 2 question prince's musicianship ..tell them 2 try and play things from lovesexy and or watch his guitar playing during the lovesexy tour ..nuff said

Prince will always win any Prince compared to whoever or whatever on this site.

While Prince is a great musician, there's alot of thing he can't do as a musician,

one of them is sit with an orchastra on any instrument and site read on the spot with no rehearsal. Which is not an insult to him. It's just a fact. He's not a technical musician, he plays by ear and feel. He doesn't play wind instruments either. To say that he's average is a little far fetched though, just listen to the 94East album with Pepe Willie, he was just a in his mid teenage years and he kicked ass on that whole cd.

There are other musicians that can play multiple instruments just like Prince, when Prince first came out they were comparing him to Stevie Wonder for this very reason. Two other people that, in my opinion are just as good musicians as Prince, but not as good songwriters are Charlie Singleton, the guitar player for cameo, he put out a album in the 80's where he played everything on the album and it's damn good. And last but not least is Andre Cymone (I know I'm in the minority when I say this), but he's just as good a musician as Prince, his songs are not as good though, the man can write hits (Jody Wotley) but he got too experimental with his music before he ever found a solid fan base for what he was doing at that time. He's even said in interviews that he has just as much talent as Prince. While I agree with him on the musicianship part, his music is not as good as Prince's. One more thing, a friend of mine who is a big Fish fan told me that every member of that group can play multiple instruments as well just like Prince. He told me this when I was trying to argue that Prince was was the man in alot of instruments, this was about 6-8 years ago.

I think his ability to write great, awsome, hypnotic, exciting, inspirational music is higher and better than his musicianship. He writes better than his playing.

misiu, good luck convincing everyone of your argument, but it won't happen, not on this site it won't.

P.S misiu, you never really gave a definition of an average musician.
[Edited 11/24/08 11:59am]

iloveannie said:

I have nooooo idea what ure talking about...

L4OATheOriginal said:

I really dont think that its a problem for the person i have a conversation about prince for over 17 years.....really no problem, he is great multi musician by himself!

BTW you point out the lovesexy tour! we were once watching the tour and he told me that the piano set was a great peace of music and asked me why he cant do a tour like that! on the other hand while showing him the guitar playing he said that those things he do there with effects some people can do without, so not that much impressed ( he can see and hear it..what he played...Really, for myself not possible, but some people can really see it and hear it!!!!!

misiu said:

You should let him listen "Rave unto the joy fantasitc" on small club

misiu said:

"seeing and hearing" and then playing what somebody else created is one thing, somewhat impressive but like I've said before, MANY people can do that. But being the creator of that is something else. THAT'S why Prince is considered a great musician. As for Guitar effects, very little effects were used on the Lovesexy live part I mentioned, especially when he was using the Hohner telecaster, which is the amazing parts I was talking about. Also I'd love to meet the guitar player that can create the same sound without effects anyway. That's actually impossible. But nice try...

misiu said:

.

Uptown said:

Yeah, I'd be fairly impressed with any guitarist that can achieve a wah sound with just his fingers. Or how about delay? Hmm, chorus is a little like a twelve-string I guess. How about a flanger? Let's not even mention the Digitech Whammy! If anybody knows how I can create these effects without my pedalboard please tell me

misiu said:

this friend of ur's, if he puts down prince's musician skills so much and ur buying in2 it all, then how come ur friend hasn't made it as big as prince has? from what ur saying he should b wiping the floor with prince and any other musician in the world then

L4OATheOriginal said:

That's not the best argument in the world. There are plenty of acts that never make it big despite having incredible talent and songwriting abilities. Some just happen at the wrong time or get marketed incorrectly. How many musicians are dying to get on Jools Holland so they can get the recognition they want? Plenty.

misiu said:

Im a guitarist myself since very long, care to explain this?

http://www.rollingstone.c...uitarists/

Prince is a fantastic guitarist no not hendrix, santana or eddie van halen but hes very unique in his style which is one of the most crucial parts and lets face it he does use his whammy bar( ) with a serious skill when "shredding"

misiu said:

I don't know if your buddy is jealous or not. Neither do you. No one is going to admit it. I had a teacher who was almost old world in how well mannered and kind he was but once he thought I might be making real progress he started snipping at me, then i realized his critiques were always the same all along only they had gotten more pronounced the more jealous he got. Too damn competitive, the kind of people who's opinions don't even matter. Maybe Prince is not the greatest thing in the whole universe as far as guitar, but he is on a level that not a lot of people are on. Not only that, he's managed to learn competence on the other major rock instruments, how to dance, how to sing, how to write, how to produce. Your friend what can he do? Just play guitar probably. Doesn't really mean anything. Actual technical ability is only worth so much in the world of music. There are a dime a dozen great musicians, that's why you are trying to call Prince average. He's not average but there are tons and tons of gifted people who don't even begin to be called an ARTIST, they only imitate well. Like a great scholastic student, they bring nothing new to the table, they only absorb better than everyone else and thus can only exhibit what's already been done in their subject, not think critically about any of it. Tell your friend to stop worrying about what other musicians can do and go try to do something himself instead of playing, teaching and doing stuff that any goofball with some practice can do. I recall Greil Marcus saying one of his friends and he were watching Elvis play and his friend who was a musician said "I don't get it, those chords are so simple". Well, music is a lot more than that, it is the character and vision of the person making it, how they communicate to humanity, the whole picture is more than being able to play, If that were not the case, some of the greatest musicians in history wouldn't be remembered because most of them are outdone technically by many others. Dylan, Petty, Ellington, many many others who wouldn't light the world on fire with their playing abilities alone but who've made their mark.
[Edited 11/25/08 8:44am]

misiu said:

Maybe the sign of a great musician is not how good they play
or how many tools of the trade they know but by the souls that the music touches
or the feelings it invokes in us .some of the great ones wrote very simple
tunes but the true talent was how they arranged it and how it touched the
listeners so maybe we will now look at twinkle twinkle little star and lets go crazy in a new light now enjoy.
[Edited 11/25/08 8:56am]

iloveannie said:

it wasn't a argument just a question. everyone gets in the business 4 different reasons and then there r those that want out of it

muirdo said:

Haha, no problem. I was just joshin ya anyway. Thanks for paying attention to my sometimes rambling postings. I have a lot on my mind about a lot of issues but sometimes I'm not as concise as I'd like to be,

Uptown said:[quote]

misiu said:

"seeing and hearing" and then playing what somebody else created is one thing, somewhat impressive but like I've said before, MANY people can do that. But being the creator of that is something else. THAT'S why Prince is considered a great musician. As for Guitar effects, very little effects were used on the Lovesexy live part I mentioned, especially when he was using the Hohner telecaster, which is the amazing parts I was talking about. Also I'd love to meet the guitar player that can create the same sound without effects anyway. That's actually impossible. But nice try...[/quot)

Boy/ Girl its not a try, its the way it is! the guy i am talking, and i am 1000% sure that he knows what he is talking about! For real! so please stop that shit like `"nice try"

Thats the same thing when people say prince is the greatest bass player! listen to victor wooten, thats bassplaying!

misiu said:[quote]

Uptown said:

sorry for that "stop that shit" i never meant to cause u any pain

This thread is getting too funky!!

pepper7 said:

Its was completely inane to begin with. I mean really

misiu said:

Trust me, there is no pain here. But then again...nice try.

misiu said:

So what ? ... is there some important instrumental skill-contest going on somewhere that we should care about ?
Why is it even an issue ? ... every artists' style and input is unique and can be appreciated individually without all that superficial nonsense which is a neverending debate anyway ... different strokes.

misiu said:

In the past (and present), i've heard a lot of great musicians in various categories.
A great & innovative pioneer was Miles Davis, who's autobiography described his high regard of Prince's qualities (and they did some live-jams together as well, including an afterparty-jam on a New Year's Eve around 1987/1988 ... another quality of Prince ... the energy to go on at countless afterparties).
I personally take more value in the words & views of Miles , who's input in the music-industry is impressive, and who has been working with a wide variety of musical talents through his career.

misiu said:

Well I may not be an "instrument" expert but his skills seem amazing 2 me, Never have I been so addicted to an artists music, Infact if sum1 had told me id end up being a Prince fan years ago, I would of laughed in there face.....funny old world aint it?

Dude, I can pass as an average musician, and I basically suck. Now it's true I had to re-evaluate my opinion of Prince's playing the better I became, and the more I was exposed to kick ass musicians. Prince (and a ton other musicians) wasn't the all-knowing musical god I thought him to be while I was growing up. I realized he was a cat whom had taken the time to sharpen his skills. But average? Hell naw!

optimus said:

Same here