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Thread started 10/13/04 2:44pm

Number23

Do Prince 'fans' really understand the man's art?

There's no such thing as r&b. No such thing as 'artsy', 'avante-guarde', 'weird' or 'out there'. They're words. Words are labels. Language only exists to cage the inexplicable. It halts our sense of wonder. Is red 'red'? What is colour? Does anyone wonder what 'red' really is or merely accept it as the one syllable label 'red'? The walls are built in the mind. The inquisitiveness is immediately denied entry to the infinite thought processes of the human brain. I don't believe anything can be labeled unless the actual emotion/implication/genre/whatever is espiring to define the definition. In other words, everything is new unless it is repeating the past - therefore making any definition redundant.

Maybe I'm taking off too vertically here for actual flight. Prince Rogers Nelson...did what he had to do to become 'Prince' the icon. Naturally, applying heart not head, the man's music sounds like nothing else on earth. Forced, it sounds stale and, for want of a better word, outrageously cheesy. No wonder most people don't know what to make of him. How many times do we hear "I know he's talented, but..." It only makes sense to some people 'live'.

Personally, I'm amazed at the tastes of personality I detect from some orgers. I refuse to believe some are actually interested in true art/defining the age/raping history to fertilise the future...and so on ad infinitum. Maybe it's the fame/legend/celebrity of 'Prince' the really like, this creature Prince Nelson invented. Maybe they force themselves to dig the music. Truly, and at the very real risk of arrogance, I don't think many of the personalities who post on this site harbour the intellect to truly understand Prince and what he is attempting to express with his projects.

And...well, I would say more but I've probably intimidated the newbies, offended the insecure and outraged the hardcore so I will cease to infect prince.org with anymore negativity and whisper 'stop' to the voices in my head with immediate effect.

.
[Edited 10/18/04 8:38am]
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Reply #1 posted 10/13/04 2:53pm

Fleshofmyflesh

I don't see how people can read some of the recent threads and not ask this question. Most of us have asked it in our heads. You took the bold step to put it in print. I have a genuine affection for anyone who digs Prince. I feel a kinship. But I get discouraged when I read some of the drivel.
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Reply #2 posted 10/13/04 3:04pm

paintsprayer

avatar

Remember that Shakespear sold to the masses.
As I replied in your other thread they provide funds.
Now I'm older than movies, Now I'm wiser than dreams, And I know who's there
When silhouettes fall
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Reply #3 posted 10/13/04 3:08pm

paintsprayer

avatar

I would also like to add that no one thinks twice about the idea of say a Mozart needing to be studied, and apreciated over the centuries. But the man who we are all here to discuss gets dissmissed off hand when theese suggestions are made. Something about Rick James getting high.
Now I'm older than movies, Now I'm wiser than dreams, And I know who's there
When silhouettes fall
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Reply #4 posted 10/13/04 3:16pm

Fleshofmyflesh

paintsprayer said:

Remember that Shakespear sold to the masses.
As I replied in your other thread they provide funds.


I understand that. The green has its place (right at the top.) But what I'm saying is for me, there was always a sense of pride in being a Prince disciple. I always felt a bit smarter than the rest of the people who were digging on MJ. I felt deeper. I know it's smug, but I'm being honest.

But now Prince has become the "hot new thing" and people who really don't know *&%* are acting as if they just discovered him. Puleezz.

I just want to feel good again about loving him so much. And part of feeling good derives from being in the minority...the elite minority.
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Reply #5 posted 10/13/04 3:38pm

Number23

Fleshofmyflesh said:

paintsprayer said:

Remember that Shakespear sold to the masses.
As I replied in your other thread they provide funds.


I understand that. The green has its place (right at the top.) But what I'm saying is for me, there was always a sense of pride in being a Prince disciple. I always felt a bit smarter than the rest of the people who were digging on MJ. I felt deeper. I know it's smug, but I'm being honest.

But now Prince has become the "hot new thing" and people who really don't know *&%* are acting as if they just discovered him. Puleezz.

I just want to feel good again about loving him so much. And part of feeling good derives from being in the minority...the elite minority.


Mmm...I actually used to think similarly. But now, to me, appreciation of art is all about personal truth. Not only would time itself be insufficient in regards to the human lifespan, but Prince hasn't been gifted with the energy or patience to hear out everyone's justifications of admiration - so what's the difference if he's a megastar or figure of fun?
Personally, I'm secure in the knowledge of my own mindset and taste, even if I was the only supporter of the man's music left on this inexplicable glowing space orb.
His worldly fame, whether it be millions or miniscule, should really mean nothing to the individual. People digging Prince on their own level is cool whether it be above or below my own. We were all newbies once, man. wink

.
[Edited 10/13/04 15:41pm]
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Reply #6 posted 10/13/04 3:44pm

Fleshofmyflesh

Number23 said:

Fleshofmyflesh said:



I understand that. The green has its place (right at the top.) But what I'm saying is for me, there was always a sense of pride in being a Prince disciple. I always felt a bit smarter than the rest of the people who were digging on MJ. I felt deeper. I know it's smug, but I'm being honest.

But now Prince has become the "hot new thing" and people who really don't know *&%* are acting as if they just discovered him. Puleezz.

I just want to feel good again about loving him so much. And part of feeling good derives from being in the minority...the elite minority.


Mmm...I actually used to think similarly. But now, to me, appreciation of art is all about personal truth. Not only would time itself be insufficient in regards to the human lifespan, but Prince hasn't been gifted with the energy or patience to hear out everyone's justifications of admiration - so what's the difference if he's a megastar or figure of fun?
Personally, I'm secure in the knowledge of my own mindset and taste, even if I was the only supporter of the man's music left on this inexplicable glowing space orb.
His worldly fame, whether it be millions or miniscule, should really mean nothing to the individual. People digging Prince on their own level is cool whether it be above or below my own. We were all newbies once, man. wink

.
[Edited 10/13/04 15:41pm]




You're a nicer person than me. lol
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Reply #7 posted 10/13/04 3:58pm

priceless

Number 23,
[Edited 10/27/04 23:08pm]
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Reply #8 posted 10/13/04 4:20pm

MrSquiggle

Number23 said:

Well, I've done it again. Replied to a post and written what I perceive to be an interesting new topic. I'm repeating my own response. Yes, you may think me an egotistical manic, an arrogant bastard, a clueless c**t (I know. I'm not a supporter of censorship but I don't want people thinking I'm all surface and no feeling), but that's your truth and this is mine. And, of course, as all soulswimmers know, there is no actual 'truth'.

There's no such thing as r&b. No such thing as 'artsy', 'avante-guarde', 'weird' or 'out there'. They're words. Words are labels. Language only exists to cage the inexplicable. It halts our sense of wonder. Is red 'red'? What is colour? Does anyone wonder what 'red' really is or merely accept it as the one syllable label 'red'. The walls are built in the mind. The inquisitiveness is immediately denied entry to the infinite thought processes of the human mind. I don't believe anything can be labeled unless the actual emotion/implication/genre/whatever is espiring to define the definition. In other words, everything is new unless it is repeating the past - therefore making any definition redundant.

Maybe I'm taking off too vertically here for actual flight. Prince Rogers Nelson...did what he had to do to become 'Prince' the icon. Naturally, applying heart not head, the man's music sounds like nothing else on earth. Forced, it sounds stale and, for want of a better word, outrageously cheesy. No wonder most people don't know what to make of him. How many times do we hear "I know he's talented, but..." It only makes sense to some people 'live'.

Personally, I'm amazed at some of the tastes of personality I detect from some orgers. I refuse to believe some are actually interested in true art/defining the age/raping history to fertilise the future...and so on ad infinitum. Maybe it's the fame/legend/celebrity of 'Prince' the really like, this creature Prince Nelson invented. Maybe they force themselves to dig the music. Truly, and at the very real risk of arrogance, I don't think many of the personalities who post on this site harbour the intellect to truly understand Prince and what he is attempting to express with his projects.

And...well, I would say more but I've probably intimidated the newbies, offended the insecure and outraged the hardcore so I will cease to infect prince.org with anymore negativity and whisper 'stop' to the voices in my head with immediate effect.

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Reply #9 posted 10/13/04 11:01pm

Number23

priceless said:

I can't justify or define my love for him because it's so very personal and nobody other than myself could know what he means to me.


Bullseye. wink
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Reply #10 posted 10/14/04 11:27am

Number23

Fleshofmyflesh said:

Number23 said:



Mmm...I actually used to think similarly. But now, to me, appreciation of art is all about personal truth. Not only would time itself be insufficient in regards to the human lifespan, but Prince hasn't been gifted with the energy or patience to hear out everyone's justifications of admiration - so what's the difference if he's a megastar or figure of fun?
Personally, I'm secure in the knowledge of my own mindset and taste, even if I was the only supporter of the man's music left on this inexplicable glowing space orb.
His worldly fame, whether it be millions or miniscule, should really mean nothing to the individual. People digging Prince on their own level is cool whether it be above or below my own. We were all newbies once, man. wink

.
[Edited 10/13/04 15:41pm]




You're a nicer person than me. lol


It's nice to be nice. nod
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Reply #11 posted 10/17/04 8:42am

Number23

MrSquiggle said:

Number23 said:

Well, I've done it again. Replied to a post and written what I perceive to be an interesting new topic. I'm repeating my own response. Yes, you may think me an egotistical manic, an arrogant bastard, a clueless c**t (I know. I'm not a supporter of censorship but I don't want people thinking I'm all surface and no feeling), but that's your truth and this is mine. And, of course, as all soulswimmers know, there is no actual 'truth'.

There's no such thing as r&b. No such thing as 'artsy', 'avante-guarde', 'weird' or 'out there'. They're words. Words are labels. Language only exists to cage the inexplicable. It halts our sense of wonder. Is red 'red'? What is colour? Does anyone wonder what 'red' really is or merely accept it as the one syllable label 'red'. The walls are built in the mind. The inquisitiveness is immediately denied entry to the infinite thought processes of the human mind. I don't believe anything can be labeled unless the actual emotion/implication/genre/whatever is espiring to define the definition. In other words, everything is new unless it is repeating the past - therefore making any definition redundant.

Maybe I'm taking off too vertically here for actual flight. Prince Rogers Nelson...did what he had to do to become 'Prince' the icon. Naturally, applying heart not head, the man's music sounds like nothing else on earth. Forced, it sounds stale and, for want of a better word, outrageously cheesy. No wonder most people don't know what to make of him. How many times do we hear "I know he's talented, but..." It only makes sense to some people 'live'.

Personally, I'm amazed at some of the tastes of personality I detect from some orgers. I refuse to believe some are actually interested in true art/defining the age/raping history to fertilise the future...and so on ad infinitum. Maybe it's the fame/legend/celebrity of 'Prince' the really like, this creature Prince Nelson invented. Maybe they force themselves to dig the music. Truly, and at the very real risk of arrogance, I don't think many of the personalities who post on this site harbour the intellect to truly understand Prince and what he is attempting to express with his projects.

And...well, I would say more but I've probably intimidated the newbies, offended the insecure and outraged the hardcore so I will cease to infect prince.org with anymore negativity and whisper 'stop' to the voices in my head with immediate effect.



talk to the hand
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Reply #12 posted 10/17/04 8:44am

AsianBomb777

I don't understand shit Prince does.

I just like it.
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Reply #13 posted 10/17/04 8:48am

Number23

AsianBomb777 said:

I don't understand shit Prince does.

I just like it.


Don't kid me on, you pseudo-intellectual tower of intelligence.
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Reply #14 posted 10/17/04 8:55am

AsianBomb777

Number23 said:

AsianBomb777 said:

I don't understand shit Prince does.

I just like it.


Don't kid me on, you pseudo-intellectual tower of intelligence.


emphasis on Psuedo
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Reply #15 posted 10/17/04 8:58am

Number23

AsianBomb777 said:

Number23 said:



Don't kid me on, you pseudo-intellectual tower of intelligence.


emphasis on Psuedo


Wondered if you'd pick up on that. smile
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Reply #16 posted 10/17/04 9:01am

AsianBomb777

Number23 said:

AsianBomb777 said:



emphasis on Psuedo


Wondered if you'd pick up on that. smile



As intelectually challenged as I am, and oblivious to the more esoteric themes presented in some of his recordings, consider it blind luck that I cought that.

I just like songs about vaginas.

,
[Edited 10/17/04 9:02am]
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Reply #17 posted 10/17/04 9:07am

Number23

AsianBomb777 said:

Number23 said:



Wondered if you'd pick up on that. smile



As intelectually challenged as I am, and oblivious to the more esoteric themes presented in some of his recordings, consider it blind luck that I cought that.

I just like songs about vaginas.

,
[Edited 10/17/04 9:02am]

lol
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Reply #18 posted 10/17/04 9:09am

HowComeUdontBa
nMeAnymore

avatar

Number23 said:



Personally, I'm amazed at the tastes of personality I detect from some orgers. I refuse to believe some are actually interested in true art

Please inlighten us who are in the dark on the concept of "true art"

I don't think many of the personalities who post on this site harbour the intellect to truly understand Prince and what he is attempting to express with his projects.

so basically what you're saying is that many orgers are idiots not capable of understanding Prince, but you do?
prove me wrong
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Reply #19 posted 10/17/04 9:10am

AsianBomb777

HowComeUdontBanMeAnymore said:

Number23 said:



Personally, I'm amazed at the tastes of personality I detect from some orgers. I refuse to believe some are actually interested in true art

Please inlighten us who are in the dark on the concept of "true art"

I don't think many of the personalities who post on this site harbour the intellect to truly understand Prince and what he is attempting to express with his projects.

so basically what you're saying is that many orgers are idiots not capable of understanding Prince, but you do?



Hey. Nice ass!
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Reply #20 posted 10/17/04 9:17am

HowComeUdontBa
nMeAnymore

avatar

AsianBomb777 said:


Hey. Nice ass!


Thx smile


prove me wrong
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Reply #21 posted 10/17/04 9:30am

Number23

HowComeUdontBanMeAnymore said:

Number23 said:



Personally, I'm amazed at the tastes of personality I detect from some orgers. I refuse to believe some are actually interested in true art

Please inlighten us who are in the dark on the concept of "true art"

I don't think many of the personalities who post on this site harbour the intellect to truly understand Prince and what he is attempting to express with his projects.

so basically what you're saying is that many orgers are idiots not capable of understanding Prince, but you do?


neutral
Re: Initial thread post, last paragraph - 'Offended the insecure'.
In other words, don't go on the offensive, dear. It gives too much away. And I agree with AsianBomb, nice ass. nod

In the end, I'm attempting to create debate, not get people's backs up. Life's far too short for that shit. Oh, and 'true' art is art which doesn't compromise commercially or creatively, nor lend itself to any specific notions of label or genre and comes straight, pure and still in one piece from the creator's heart and mind.

And, finally, no, I don't claim to 'understand' Prince or anyone else for that matter. Anyone who does state such wild notions has issues. With this thread, I'm referring to Prince's 'art' not his personality, mindset or lifestyle. In other words, something which actually can be quantified and held up to scrutiny. Which is where I came in the door. Cool? Cool.
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Reply #22 posted 10/17/04 9:39am

HowComeUdontBa
nMeAnymore

avatar

Number23 said:


neutral
Re: Initial thread post, last paragraph - 'Offended the insecure'.
In other words, don't go on the offensive, dear.

Are you kidding me?
Anyone who disagrees with you is "insecure"? (and I take it you are very secure..right?) talk to the hand

I tell you what.. I think you're hiding behind your fancy writing which may impress a few people out there, but if you really have some valid points you wanna discuss, try to adjust your writing to an appropriate level..
Right now you just look like you wanna show of your writing skills and that is even more sad than people not "getting" Prince...
Cool? Cool
prove me wrong
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Reply #23 posted 10/17/04 9:41am

Number23

HowComeUdontBanMeAnymore said:

Number23 said:


neutral
Re: Initial thread post, last paragraph - 'Offended the insecure'.
In other words, don't go on the offensive, dear.

Are you kidding me?
Anyone who disagrees with you is "insecure"? (and I take it you are very secure..right?) talk to the hand

I tell you what.. I think you're hiding behind your fancy writing which may impress a few people out there, but if you really have some valid points you wanna discuss, try to adjust your writing to an appropriate level..
Right now you just look like you wanna show of your writing skills and that is even more sad than people not "getting" Prince...
Cool? Cool

smile Really nice ass.
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Reply #24 posted 10/17/04 9:55am

DarkKnight1

avatar

HowComeUdontBanMeAnymore said:

AsianBomb777 said:


Hey. Nice ass!


Thx smile




Damn, dont tease us. More.
(Insert something clever here)
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Reply #25 posted 10/17/04 10:01am

HowComeUdontBa
nMeAnymore

avatar

It's not me in that avie!! lol
prove me wrong
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Reply #26 posted 10/17/04 10:02am

HowComeUdontBa
nMeAnymore

avatar

Number23 said:

HowComeUdontBanMeAnymore said:


Are you kidding me?
Anyone who disagrees with you is "insecure"? (and I take it you are very secure..right?) talk to the hand

I tell you what.. I think you're hiding behind your fancy writing which may impress a few people out there, but if you really have some valid points you wanna discuss, try to adjust your writing to an appropriate level..
Right now you just look like you wanna show of your writing skills and that is even more sad than people not "getting" Prince...
Cool? Cool

smile Really nice ass.


Yeah.. and I heard you had a nice ass yourself.. Model right? wink
prove me wrong
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Reply #27 posted 10/17/04 12:54pm

Number23

HowComeUdontBanMeAnymore said:

Number23 said:


smile Really nice ass.


Yeah.. and I heard you had a nice ass yourself.. Model right? wink

razz
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Reply #28 posted 10/17/04 2:53pm

vainandy

avatar

HowComeUdontBanMeAnymore said:

Number23 said:


neutral
Re: Initial thread post, last paragraph - 'Offended the insecure'.
In other words, don't go on the offensive, dear.

Are you kidding me?
Anyone who disagrees with you is "insecure"? (and I take it you are very secure..right?) talk to the hand

I tell you what.. I think you're hiding behind your fancy writing which may impress a few people out there, but if you really have some valid points you wanna discuss, try to adjust your writing to an appropriate level..
Right now you just look like you wanna show of your writing skills and that is even more sad than people not "getting" Prince...
Cool? Cool


AMEN!! Very well said!
Andy is a four letter word.
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Reply #29 posted 10/17/04 3:13pm

Number23

vainandy said:



AMEN!! Very well said!


smile Hello, Andy. Back for more? Ding ding!
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