All this talk of what P "needs to do" or what "his fans" want, or "what he needs to do" has me thinking...

Where should the music P plays, come from? His personal inspiration or what his "supposed" fans demand?? Should every project be tailored to the whims of millions of people, or should it come from his heart? Does P REALLY owe anything to his fans?

The obvious answer is (at least should be) ...P's music should come only from him and his inspirations, not from what every Tom, Dick and Harry who feels like he owes them something because they purchased his music at one point in their lives.

The reason I particularly like NEWS is because it is exactly not what people think P should be doing. This album, is all about letting P and the band explore the grooves dying to get loose, regardless of corporate, consumer, and media pressure to conform to the bland nature of today's music. It feels free...it is music that I will not hear on the radio...it is music that doesn't take millions of dollars of promotion to convince me it's good.

Unfortunately, too many people seem to have forgotten that music is about the artists inspiration and music interpretations, not about being the world's most popular artist or getting radio/video airplay. If many of you would come out of "xpecting" what P should be doing and just listen to his artistry, you would continue to be amazed, as you were back when. He's still the same musical genius as before. Just because he's not going in the musical direction you choose for him, doesn't negate that.

Well Hazel I dont see how you can compare Prince's spirituality to Cat Stevens. I mean that is a totally different religon. Also maybe God told Cat to do one thing and told Prince to do another. I guess I am just uncomfortable judging the mans spirituality cause you disagree with his new JW slant or some of his past behavior. Spiritual journeys are marathons not sprints. It is not where you are but where you are going to be. I defend you right to hate the album however. Personally I don't understand how you hate it. I love it. I wish people could agree to disagree. We don't have to hate each other over something as joyous as music. I love Prince when he experiments. When he does pop albums I just feel he is not covering anything new and interesting. I also feel that alot of you who hate his albums right off forget about the Prince two year rule. Sheena Easton spoke about this in an interview as well as Lenny Kravitz. Sometimes with Prince a song you completely hate and can walk away from you hear two years later and it is like a revelation. I have experienced this myself so believe me when I say it is true. I say, if you want to, give N.E.W.S two years and see if you still feel the same.

i have listened to N.E.W.S. for 2 days and the album still hasn't grown on me. the WB collections are the BOMB! i play
them everyday,maybe i will grow to like N.E.W.S.3 years down the road.

GustavoRibas said:
Speaking of Victor Wooten...I know he performed in the Celebration, but someone knows if he and Prince shared the stage?[/quote]

Right-i'm not sure he was on stage with him.
Surry 4 that.

Peace

SOME FOLKS WILL NEVER LIKE ANYTHING WITH A JAZZ FEEL OR SOUND.

MY SISTER USED TO LIKE PRINCE, BUT SHE ONCE SAID SOME OF HIS NEW STUFF HAD TOO MANY HORNS...

I JUST GOT N.E.W.S. SUNDAY AND I LOVE IT.
MY FRIENDS THAT DONT LIKE PRINCE LIKE IT...

OLDER FOLKS INTO THAT HATE PRINCE LIKE IT...

ITS JUST GOOD~

buttcheeks said:

Actually, Cheeks, a large chunk of his fans hate anything that is not pop/rock based coming from P. They won't say it, but many hate that he does "black music".

YEAH, I SAID IT!!! (and many of ya'll know it's true!)

Oh I don't know about that Codshot. I mean look at Prince's "other" fan base through out his entire career. Everything that he has ever done has been "Black music" That statement alone encompasses so many art forms of music that it is impossible to label their dislike with that. I just think they don't vibe. In today's society "black music" is everywhere and is everything. While I do belive in some instances race plays a factor in some of the Prince hatred around here. I can't really see how it applies to the response of this album. Besides I bet if you polled you would find plenty of "others" who enjoy this album.

Chilton, I guess my opinion comes from the fact that when he does pop or rock (no matter the quality), people go crazy for it, but as soon as it's R&B, jazz or soul, then it becomes "he sux now, I wish he'd reform the Revolution". Too many people think of him as only a pop/rock artist, when in reality, he's a jack of all trades (very good at everything, a master of none).

I am sorry I called you CodShot I meant CodShort. No disrespect meant

chiltonmusic said:

none taken...

Well I can dig where you are coming from. I think the line Prince has always walked and the line he has made many of his fans walk is that you have to roll with whatever whim he is writing on for that album. I believe of course there are those who have had a strong dislike of his "blacker" side but I always figured he roped them in some how. What really concerns me now is how hard alot of people are fighting this musical masterpiece phaze that he is in. I mean people are really triping about these instrumentals. What is even scarier is that many people on this site and who I know in the real world seem to have no idea of the Madhouse albums which IMHO is some of the best jazz I have ever heard. I would love to see people really take the time with this album. I remember when I first heard S'OTT I thougt it was the weirdest shit in my life. I also knew that I needed to catch up with Prince cause he had just dropped something special. I think as we get older we want things to stay the same so we don't feel as though we have aged. Prince seems at ease with aging and he has grown up. I wish some of the people who are having such troubles with his new stuff would grow with him but each in his own time I guess. What is really interesting is that after Prince is long gone all these folk are going to be bragging about their complete collections and how much they loved him. That is just the nature of the beast.

testing..

Aerogram said

Hi, Aerogram. I have a similar feeling. I think NEWS is better than Xpectations. The musicians are better, and it sounds tighter and more funky. I only miss a kick ass guitar solo by Prince. But the album is good, if you are not expecting a masterpiece. I dont think it´s better than Madhouse, because Madhouse had stronger riffs, melodies and more experimentation.
I hope the next album will be more like a band album with lyrics, like GOLD was

codshort said:

Codshort, you know I love you and all, but I don't know a single person who thinks like that. Why on earth would anyone stick with Prince's music for so long, through all the craziness, if they didn't like "black music"?

Much as I love black music, it doesn't mean I love any piece of music that happens to be performed by a black musician You see the difference, I am sure. Much as I dig Prince's stuff, I've never had much interest in the "purple muzak" (to employ Aero's excellent phrase!).

I like NEWS for what it is. A lightweight piece of work, some good moments, some dull moments, a temporary distraction. I appreciate that Prince put it out at all, and I appreciate that he put it out on a lower price point. At the same time though, I could just as easily have done without it, and I will be more eager to hear a proper new studio album. I'm sure I'm not alone in feeling that way.

Anyway, not everyone likes indulgent freeform jams, and not everyone likes jazz. It isn't a prerequisite y'know... I've got lots of great jazz in my record collection, and none of it was performed by Prince. Jazz may be something that Prince is dabbling with, but it isn't necessarily something he does well. There are parts of NEWS that sound just like Kamasutra I don't really know how to take it, so I just enjoy the grooves for what they are.

You seem to be imagining some kind of Prince fan that got into his work during the cross-over years (i.e. they love "Raspberry Beret" and "Purple Rain") but now hates all his "black" stuff. Man, if such fans ever existed, none of those people stuck around past 1985, and they certainly aren't on the Org in 2003.

oh, came on!! prince ALWAYS had a "black" sound, even when he was in the rock/pop charts..that's why we loved him!!!

Chilton...I feel you. The way people have been talking about NEWS and his other recent work is part of my take on the situation. I just don't understand the venom that comes from some of his fans . Personally, I'd have thought that this core group would be the main people to give an honest, fair listen.


Ian, my brother, how've ya been? I pray ev'thangs been good.

I know you and many other P fans who do love his black music side, and are willing to give it a fair listen. Far too often around here, we get non-stop criticism of any P output with an overall black music feel. How many times have we seen "emancipation sux" , "NPS is dreck" , "P sux at jazz so why does he bother..." ,"See this is why P sux now", "Why doesn't P just stop all the BS and go back to mainstream pop/rock" and on and on and on. (Of course, no exact quotes, I'm too lazy, but general sentiment around here.) Mention how you wish he'd reform the Revolution and it's a love fest.

Part of it too is I'm kinda fed up with all the negativity about where P is now, and where he's going. Its clear that he's headed deeper into black music styles and subjects, and the uproar is reaching a fevered pitch. I haven't posted much (I do lurk often) because it's almost like it's become an anti-Prince website. Gone are the mostly fair, reasoned P discussions...(dontcha miss goldni**a???).

You know, I respect anyone's opinions who gives the MUSIC a fair listen and interpretation, good or bad. Far too often though, people are letting irrelavent issues seep into their rantings.

Hazel, yeah, P always did, but now he no longer uses much pop/rock, and people are talking like he's a washed up artist. Wassup with that??? If he came with Purple Rain 2, or crystal ball 2 you know he'd get mad critical acclaim and PR, even if it weren't very good.



I'm not saying all P's soul/funk/jazz/r&b/gospel offerings have been fabulous works of art, but they're far from as poor as people want us to believe...

jiazhou said:

It does sound amazing to a non-musician doesn't it.

Hiya Codshort, hope life is good with you!

I hear you on that stuff but y'know... maybe Prince is just outgrowing some of his audience. Imagine if Prince stuck with his jazz experiments for another 5 or 6 years, I think it is reasonable to expect some fans not to want to hang around throughout that, if they just aren't digging it.

I don't know about y'all, but when I first started considering myself a fan of Prince's work, I didn't sign any contracts that said I gotta love everything he puts out. If Prince got into country and western and put out a folksy album, I wouldn't even contemplate buying it. For those people that dislike indulgent jazzy jams, Prince's current phase is bound to put them off. Fair enough... I'd hardly call it "negativity".

Prince kinda acknowledges this in "Pearls B4 Swine"... maybe he feels restricted by the idea of doing songs, of doing albums etc.

Although I appreciate that Prince is in a position in his career that he can put out different stuff like this, I'm kinda reminded of that scene in "Mo Better Blues" where Wesley Snipes was talking "if you grandiose motherfuckers played shit that they liked, they would come"

For the record though, I've gone back and listened to Xpectation a few times, and it's a grower. I definitely don't hate it as much as I did on the first listen. So maybe NEWS will grow on me too.

Isn't that always the case with P albums. Hardly ever on the first listen have I loved a P album, they always take a few listens to uncover the genius usually found within...

just like ever1 has a right 2 their opinion. Prince has every right to xpress himself the way he wants. The man does not need our permission or authority 2 xpress himself. He is releasing music that no other "pop" artist has the guts or talent to do so. can u not FEEL how FREE he is now that is not under a label, where there r there mamma jamma's in suits telling him when or how to make his music. He has covered so much ground musically that the only drawback to his talent is that his fan's are divided all over the place. from 1979 - 2003 WOW! think about it. The music business would be sooo different w/out him. Even though he is not as popular as he was in the past. He has always been an underground artist that has found success in the pop culture. Thank God he has never sold out. Meaning seeling his music 2 commercials, Gap products, or showed up at the Teen choice awards to get more exposure. Real music heads will understand. thanks to him, i have discovered artists such as Jimi Hendrix, Joni Mitchell, Miles Davis, James Brown, Sly Stone ...etc. and these young kids 2day that have not heard of Prince's music will in do time. Thanks 2 outkast, D'angelo, The Roots, Lenny Kravitz, Raphael Saadiq, Q tip and so on, and so on. Be proud that u are able 2 witness this man in your lifetime because after him, then what or who?

prog5000 said:

I've got it, From KaZaA,

ITS SHITE!!!

NPG187 said:

Prince recently gave permission to use "Little red corvette" for a commercial. And he signed a 100 million dollar contract with Warner in the early 90's which he fulfilled with many "contractual obligations" albums and many commercial sounds of that era.

He continued with that "commercial sound" on Emancipation, Crystal Ball, NPS, Rave and High. Only since TRC is Preince back to making music without trying to market it to a large audience and you can immediately hear by the quality of the music.

Whcih leads me to Codshort's comments... (Hi Codshort, how have you been?)... The albums Emancipation - High were not crap because there was "black music" on them. They were crap because Prince was trying much too hard in making these albums so as to cater them as much as possible to the masses, which was AFTER the WB contract. That's what makes these albums weak; they don't stand the test of time.

So Prince fans that put these albums down don't do that because it is "black music". If they would, they would have to put down all Prince's music, because it is all "black music" and then it would be impossible for them to even consider themselves fan of even one album. You know that's true.

NEWS is very disappointing! I had to buy some Cuban music like BUENA VISA and IBRAHIM FERRER to feel better!

Prince is done! I'll rather also listen to Morris Day and the Time (especially live)!!!

'Sup Abrazo! Howya feelin, bro?

I don't think those albums failed due to commercial success attempts, at all. None of those albums (outside Emancipation) were radio friendly in the least. I think if anything, he has tried too hard to NOT play to the masses after the name change uproar, and that may be what has turned people off. The masses have been clamoring for PR-2 since the day ATWIAD was released and has only been half way silenced when Gold, SOTT, Lovesexy & the Black Album were released. Otherwise, it's been a steady criticism of the man's music...especially when it's music that would be found on black radio (contrary to popular belief, not all P music is really black music, per se).

Emancipation is one of the strongest R&B albums in a long while, but why do people think it sucks???...because it's R&B and people want P to go back to the pop/rock/punk days.

If P wanted to cater to the masses, we all know all he'd have to do is start playing pop/rock/punk again, release the vault, etc...then folks like ZurichFunk (& others, not just singling you out bro), wouldn't think that "Prince is done"... GUARANTEED!!! Then they'd be mentioning him with reverence as they do with MJ & Madonna (don't get me started on them, now...)


If P is done, then 99% of the music biz needs to quit now, cause they never got started.

abrazo said:

He continued with that "commercial sound" on Emancipation, Crystal Ball, NPS, Rave and High



yes, all blockbusters album, for i can remeber..in your galaxy maybe.
very, very commercial..

I will believe it when i see and hear it...that Prince has allowed GM Corvette to use his song, Little Red Corvette. I know in the past, that they have tried numerous attempts at trying to licience the song. And if he didn't do it in the late 1990's before or after Rave in2the Joy Fantastic. Then i don't believe he will do it now. While he is un this wave inspiration. For those of you that are not feeling N.E.W.S. remember music is a language and for example , i don't understand Italian, French, or Hindu, but they are beautiful languages and basically we are ALL saying the same things. Just Differently. The best thing about "instrumental" music is that U put your OWN lyric's or feelings in2 the song. Just like prince said "it's love making music" and that's a universal language we ALL UNDERSTAND. i

NPG187 said:

They DID use that song in a commercial. They used concert footage of him in the ad as well, and then showed the Corvette they were advertising at the end of it.

ian said:

PRINCE AND JAZZ (my 2 cents)
1) Ironically, it seems to have been more jazz musicians interested in Prince´s music from times that he didnt try to play jazz (Joshua Redman covered ´How come you dont call me´, Herbie Hancock covered ´Thieves in the temple´ and Miles covered ´Movie Star´ to name a few *)
2) I agree with you. Prince doesn´t feel so free playing jazz. I doubt that he could do a sequence of GOOD guitar improvisations on the guitar, like George Benson is capable of, BUT...
3) Prince studied jazz, and IMO it´s the main reason that he writes better pop music than most artists. He wrote some very good arrangements in this field, when incorporating it to his music. Examples are: ´She spoke to me´ (long version) and ´Come´ (album version - beautiful harmonies and horn arrangements). His piano solos often had harmonizations from jazz too, with dissonant notes and inversions.
Now he seems to be more interested in jazz than ever. I wonder where it ends. I hope he brings the sophistication of jazz to his music, but without losing the punch. Let´s wait and see.
I am very glad that the ONA tour was the first one that the music had complete priority over choreographies, stage gimmicks, chants, dancers, etc

*If somebody knows about more jazz greats covering Prince, please send me an org note. Thanks

~"RAVE!!! into the joy fantastic come on RAVE!!!~"

Good to see you Codshort!

But I have to disagree with you there! Emancipation, CB, NPS, Rave and High all had that hitsound of the day that wasn't created by Prince, but by the R&B one day "fly" type of commercialised musicproducers. Kirky J's numerous remixes are the most compelling evidence that for a long time Prince was trying pretty hard to cater to the growing R&B audience which consists mostly of young people; extactly the people the majors he was working with then (BMG, EMI and Arista) are making money from (at least before napster)...

The projects failed commercially due to a lack of originality; Prince was not being himself... in different ways. Musically he was almost a copycat instead of being original, practially mimicing the hitsound of the day and hoping to stay on top of the game. Prince always has been exactly the type of artist that sold records when he did something another didn't do or hadn't done before; i.e. truly being original. Musically he was always a "leader", but became a "follower" during the late 90's. The ultimate lack of succes of these albums was partly due to that lack of originality, which sometimes didn't even sound like "Prince" anymore and partly due to various unfortunate and unwise business decisions on how to market the albums (e.g. little to no video's, little outside promotion, no tours).

It may still be better than the average R&B fly out there, but that still doesn't make them great albums according to Prince standards; original, creative, innovative while still appealing to large audience and able to stand the test of time. That is basically the reason why these albums, with the exception of some notable songs, are simply not that good in Prince terms, both musically as commercially, at least in comparison with his older work.
As for NEWS I really can't say anything about that album because I haven't purchased it, nor listened to it.
[This message was edited Sun Aug 10 16:13:01 PDT 2003 by Abrazo]