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Reply #120 posted 09/11/18 7:47am

violetcrush

rednblue said:

CatB said:



This is something important you say here.

They say like attracts like. Prince himself had been that young and vulnerable one and to a degree stayed that all through his life. That's the angle from where you need to look at the picture.

And when you leave their age aside, some of those women don't seem to have been so innocent either. That is not an excuse to take advantage of it. But again, like attracts like. I called it his orphan detector.



Thanks for another great post Latin!

Speaking of liner notes, above subject made me think of something Lisa Coleman said in an interview about this project:

" 'Even though he’s got the prowess of a' – she laughs – 'love god, an incredible kind of fantasy person, at the same time he was like a deer in headlights, a very vulnerable person. Those big brown eyes would kill you. But he struggled with his success. One of the reasons he stayed in Minnesotaall his life is that it allowed him a little bit of freedom. It was hard after Purple Rain, because it was limos and planes and thousands of people, all the time. I think it was hard for him to decide when he could just be Prince, the guy, and when he had to become Prince the superstar. He gave himself so thoroughly to it.' ”


https://www.theguardian.c...usive-demo

Susannah stated in her interview with Toure, "On top of all the sexual mystique, he was just a sweet boy" She stated there were many nights when it was just "popcorn and television" with them, and he looked to their relatiionship to keep him grounded. She said he often just wanted hugs and he would wrap his legs around her.

*

So, no doubt he lived both sides - the lascivious rock star or the vulnerable boy, depending on his mood. In one of the Biographies someone within his inner circle stated that he said, "I never thought being famous would be so lonely".

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Reply #121 posted 09/11/18 8:13am

CatB

violetcrush said:

CatB said:



? I don't know about you but my thoughts are all created by me. And I'd still like to understand why you felt the need to explain something to me that I had previously stated myself?


CatB - I absolutely and quite honestly had no recollection of any similar comment you had made prior. If you take a look at my post #71 I am describing this opinion in detail with regard to his relationship with Susannah.

*

I think the bigger question is....why is this such an issue for yoU?? We are on the same page with opinions/ideas here. smile



I know that wink I just wanted to clarify as I don't like misunderstandings. That is the issue. And what I post are my thoughts.


"Time is space spent with U"
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Reply #122 posted 09/11/18 12:06pm

Krystalkisses

avatar

CatB said:



Krystalkisses said:


Maybe he felt entitled to have a harem.



That's why "If I had a Harem" always makes me go: Really...? lol

Seriously, he was not like other men who juggle women for one purpose only. Prince had so much to GIVE. Might sound corny or like I applaud the general notion but he was different. There's a reason why there are many fond memories and gratefulness for him out there and not many grudges.

I'm a feminist and if it wasn't about Prince I would talk differently, believe me. And like I said - how many of the girls walked into the situation not being so innocent and clueless either.




Right..lol..honestly it was his life and I'm sure he accepted whatever consequences went along with having multiple lovers. I think it is naive to apply logic to Prince's relationships...i don't even think he thought or approached life in a "logical" way , lots of artists don't, actually most people don't either, but I don't think he was being purposely malicious (usually) ...and I think with him his multiple girlfriends was more than just " getting his rocks off"...i think he was starved for connection honestly...but Cat as you pointed out the women had agency in it too...as you said it wasn't like it was a secret...im sure some women gave in and ended up disappointed but that could happen with any man...women usually gave more oxytocin than men and sex can activate bonding, we kinda evolved that way as a species...casual sex never worked out for me so I never got into that and I think it is true for the majority of women. Prince was in a very unique situation that most men don't experience so I don't want to judge him. It would be difficult for a man to say no to all those sexy women coming on to him I think.
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Reply #123 posted 09/11/18 12:40pm

Krystalkisses

avatar

violetcrush said:



CatB said:




endiadj said:


Some of you are making it sound like these women were kept in the dark and didn't know about Prince's philandering ways. I beg to differ. If the fans knew then these women who were in the middle of it knew, so they were walking into the situation with eyes wide open. Many were willing to go along with it for the ride. Nothing bad about it, but let's not make this out to be that Prince was some monster.



Exactly. Win-win. I don't even wanna know how many of them took advantage of him and walked into the situation with that very intent. And like one of the girls said - by playing them he played himself.





I don't think anyone here is implying that Prince was some kind pf "monster" when it came to women. Not at all. Despite his complexities most have stated he was very respectful and good to them. However, it is definitely true that as he got older he preferred younger women, 18-22 age range. He was a smart guy, and I'm sure he knew that they were much more impressionable and easier to control. There is a high degree of naivitey and gullibility with this age group. They don't yet have wisdom from life experiences, and are more likely to defer to his decisions and choices over their own. I'm sure he did like to be the "teacher" to some degree, but he also needed the intellectual and creative stimulation, which he probably did not get from this group. And no doubt he was just more physically attracted to the younger women vs women his own age as he got older.



Maybe he wanted someone who wasn't his equal...for his own deep seeded reasons. Some people chose partners who are not on their level because they feel superior and the one in control. I do think Prince had abandonment issues that spanned his whole life. We all have some deep things to work out in life...maybe he wanted someone who was very awesome but his past shit drew him to the less powerful ones.
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Reply #124 posted 09/11/18 12:42pm

CatB

Krystalkisses said:

CatB said:



That's why "If I had a Harem" always makes me go: Really...? lol

Seriously, he was not like other men who juggle women for one purpose only. Prince had so much to GIVE. Might sound corny or like I applaud the general notion but he was different. There's a reason why there are many fond memories and gratefulness for him out there and not many grudges.

I'm a feminist and if it wasn't about Prince I would talk differently, believe me. And like I said - how many of the girls walked into the situation not being so innocent and clueless either.


Right..lol..honestly it was his life and I'm sure he accepted whatever consequences went along with having multiple lovers. I think it is naive to apply logic to Prince's relationships...i don't even think he thought or approached life in a "logical" way , lots of artists don't, actually most people don't either, but I don't think he was being purposely malicious (usually) ...and I think with him his multiple girlfriends was more than just " getting his rocks off"...i think he was starved for connection honestly...but Cat as you pointed out the women had agency in it too...as you said it wasn't like it was a secret...im sure some women gave in and ended up disappointed but that could happen with any man...women usually gave more oxytocin than men and sex can activate bonding, we kinda evolved that way as a species...casual sex never worked out for me so I never got into that and I think it is true for the majority of women. Prince was in a very unique situation that most men don't experience so I don't want to judge him. It would be difficult for a man to say no to all those sexy women coming on to him I think.



Yes to the bolded, Krystal. I actually was about to post something similar but feared it might be taken the wrong way again, like I'm defending his "taking advantage" or whatever.

I get what you are saying about the oxytocin and bonding and it reminded me of something I had shared on the other thread some time ago. It goes far beyond that. I'll copy and paste it here. It was something I read in a very interesting book during my summer holiday, called 'The Holistic Human':

The sperm in the seminal fluid of the man are foreign bodies in the woman and as such they would normally have to be attacked and removed by the immune system. Because this does not work in terms of reproduction the woman locally adjusts to the man's immune system. She morphs herself and creates a tolerable blueprint of him.

Prof. Dr. Johannes Huber ~ THE HOLISTIC HUMAN


As I said on that other thread, this is also fascinating from a spiritual perspective and here we come full circle with Prince and his philosophy about sex.


The thing is that for many people sex is a weapon or currency. I've never been like that either but for many women this seems to come easy. And some go along with the sex as long as they only get what they actually want.



"Time is space spent with U"
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Reply #125 posted 09/11/18 12:52pm

Krystalkisses

avatar

Yes Cat! Thanks for posting that supporting reference. I also heard seminal fluid acts as an antidepressant for women. So this bonding/spiritual union that the physical act of sex is very real and backed by the science...

..thanks for sheading some insight into how Prince thought and approached life and love.
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Reply #126 posted 09/11/18 1:21pm

SoulAlive

Interestingly,after Jerome was fired by Prince in late 1986 (after Prince saw him in Janet's "Control" video),he signed a solo deal with A&M Records.As far as I know,nothing ever came of it,though.

ChocolateBox3121 said:

violetcrush said:

Jerome co-starrred in UTCM, but remember, the film flopped at the box office. I don't recall him moving on to bigger celebrity status after that. I really like Jerome, and he was great with Morris in PR, and fun to watch in UTCM, but he is not a musician or actor, and he hasn't had a career as such.

Any actor that gets a co-starring role in a motion picture whether it flops or not is a MAJOR achievement. Jerome(who had two) also danced with Janet Jackson on her videos and The Granmmy's. So if he did nothing else it doesn't really matter. That's not including his work with The Time.

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Reply #127 posted 09/11/18 1:32pm

PeteSilas

i've seen couples who've got one person who's pretty smart and the other not so smart, I just wonder what the attraction is. It's not just a matter of intelligence but of getting along,all couples argue but who wants to argue about shit that a 7 year old would argue about? I don't get it.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #128 posted 09/11/18 1:44pm

violetcrush

Krystalkisses said:

CatB said:



That's why "If I had a Harem" always makes me go: Really...? lol

Seriously, he was not like other men who juggle women for one purpose only. Prince had so much to GIVE. Might sound corny or like I applaud the general notion but he was different. There's a reason why there are many fond memories and gratefulness for him out there and not many grudges.

I'm a feminist and if it wasn't about Prince I would talk differently, believe me. And like I said - how many of the girls walked into the situation not being so innocent and clueless either.


Right..lol..honestly it was his life and I'm sure he accepted whatever consequences went along with having multiple lovers. I think it is naive to apply logic to Prince's relationships...i don't even think he thought or approached life in a "logical" way , lots of artists don't, actually most people don't either, but I don't think he was being purposely malicious (usually) ...and I think with him his multiple girlfriends was more than just " getting his rocks off"...i think he was starved for connection honestly...but Cat as you pointed out the women had agency in it too...as you said it wasn't like it was a secret...im sure some women gave in and ended up disappointed but that could happen with any man...women usually gave more oxytocin than men and sex can activate bonding, we kinda evolved that way as a species...casual sex never worked out for me so I never got into that and I think it is true for the majority of women. Prince was in a very unique situation that most men don't experience so I don't want to judge him. It would be difficult for a man to say no to all those sexy women coming on to him I think.

To take it down to basics, Prince was an attractive rock star known worldwide who also clearly had a high libido, and a penchant for attractive women. Most well known and attractive (or even unattractive) celebrities/rock stars will have their pick of women on any given night at any given time. Most rock stars have girls of their choice plucked from the audience to party with them back stage or elsewhere after the concert - or in Prince's case - have girls flown in to attend his concert and hook up with him afterward. Prince enjoyed all of these perks of being a rock star.

*

On the opposite end, these girls who are chosen by said rock stars to partake in any type of encounter - short term or long - are making their own choice to do so. No one is twisting their arm or forcing them into this situation.

*

The discussion here, for the most part, has been pertaining to Prince's behavior in his more long-term or serious relationships with regard to his more controlling and manipulative behavior, and why he often chose women of a much younger age as girlfriends.

*

I think, ulitmately, you are more on target with the thought that Prince pretty much did what he wanted to do with women at any point in time, regardless of any personal fall-out for the woman that resulted in those choices. Sadly, I think the consequence for that behavior was the demise of some of the relationships that were more important to him.

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Reply #129 posted 09/11/18 2:09pm

violetcrush

PeteSilas said:

i've seen couples who've got one person who's pretty smart and the other not so smart, I just wonder what the attraction is. It's not just a matter of intelligence but of getting along,all couples argue but who wants to argue about shit that a 7 year old would argue about? I don't get it.

My guess is that the "not so smart" ones did not do too much arguing, and for the most part, just abided by what he wanted or requested. However, I'm sure the boredom set in for him when there was not much quality conversation due to the age/generation gap and/or lack of experience and education of the younger women. The jist that I get is that the younger attractive ones (Anna, Carmen, Robin) were there to watch and follow him, hang around when he wanted them there, and to be at his disposal.

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Reply #130 posted 09/11/18 2:11pm

endiadj

violetcrush said:



rednblue said:




peggyon said:





Susannah and prince had a rough patch moreso in 1986-1987 with his infidelity, she was only 21- 22. Anna was 18 and living with him while he was with Kim and Robin etc. Jill was kept in a contract that she wanted out of and was strung along in other ways.(romantically)There are significant patterns to Prince's behavior and it isn't pretty. How about Vanity? Rosie?Kim? Nona? Mayte? Bria? Just sayin. His behavior is what largely made these women leave. I don't like to romanticise that part of his personality. I think most forgave him but he caused all of them significant pain. So many of them were so young( Mayte, Susannah, Anna, Jill) and others were emotionally fragile (Nona, Kim, Vanity). It was his treatment of young and/or vulnerable women that I find uncool.


Anna seemed strongest but was only 18. I am not clear about Bria.






[Edited 9/10/18 21:52pm]


[Edited 9/10/18 21:58pm]




Thank you for noting this. Jill also said that years before, Prince told her that he would never hold her to such a contract.

In the end, it seems she had regrets about signing that contract, just as Prince had regrets about contracts he'd signed.




Right. This is where the gullibility and naivety at a younger age comes in to play. She shouldn't have signed the contract. It's a shame that he did not keep to his word. However, if she had been able to leave sooner, there was no guarantee that she would have had success with a record lsewhere.


This reminds me of a young Prince signing his first WB contract and not understanding the fine language that had him battling WB for the rights to his music for decades to come.
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Reply #131 posted 09/11/18 2:13pm

CatB

Krystalkisses said:

Yes Cat! Thanks for posting that supporting reference. I also heard seminal fluid acts as an antidepressant for women. So this bonding/spiritual union that the physical act of sex is very real and backed by the science... ..thanks for sheading some insight into how Prince thought and approached life and love.




Yes, there are opiates in the seminal fluid. It numbs the woman's immune system for the act of sex, so her DNA won't attack his.



"Time is space spent with U"
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Reply #132 posted 09/11/18 2:16pm

PeteSilas

endiadj said:

violetcrush said:

Right. This is where the gullibility and naivety at a younger age comes in to play. She shouldn't have signed the contract. It's a shame that he did not keep to his word. However, if she had been able to leave sooner, there was no guarantee that she would have had success with a record lsewhere.

This reminds me of a young Prince signing his first WB contract and not understanding the fine language that had him battling WB for the rights to his music for decades to come.

ya, and i always say that humans do what was done to them, i remind myself of this as a I always struggle with anger issues dealing with assholes. I just remember that they really don't like themselves too much. sometimes it works, others it doesnt and I lose it. You'd think it would work the opposite, that someone gets fucked and they'd have sympathy but usually it doesn't work that way.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #133 posted 09/11/18 2:19pm

ChocolateBox31
21

SoulAlive said:

Interestingly,after Jerome was fired by Prince in late 1986 (after Prince saw him in Janet's "Control" video),he signed a solo deal with A&M Records.As far as I know,nothing ever came of it,though.

ChocolateBox3121 said:

Any actor that gets a co-starring role in a motion picture whether it flops or not is a MAJOR achievement. Jerome(who had two) also danced with Janet Jackson on her videos and The Granmmy's. So if he did nothing else it doesn't really matter. That's not including his work with The Time.

The entertainment industry is more business than show. So who knows what happened in the behind the scenes politics of Jerome's career? But like I said before he accomplished more than a lot by that time period and it was well deserved.

Same thing could be said about Morris Day. He should have been as big as Eddie Murphy or even Richard Pryor with his comedic chops. But now he seems to be stuck playing a character on stage that Prince created the rest of his life. To me that's sad. sad

[Edited 9/11/18 14:37pm]

So Prince, whom fought 4 his first record deal & got it, fought 4 a movie deal & got it, fought 4 freedom from his WB contract & got it, fought 4 his masters & got them.Gets a curable illness & says 2 himself ok, I'm done. "Life is a Box Of Chocolates"
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Reply #134 posted 09/11/18 2:20pm

endiadj

I think Prince saw himself as a teacher in many facets of life, musically, spiritually, sexually, etc. I believe that's why he gravitated more towards the young ones. He wanted to be their teacher. Same with the women he chose to marry. "Virgins" of the mind and body...
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Reply #135 posted 09/11/18 2:24pm

violetcrush

CatB said:

Krystalkisses said:

Yes Cat! Thanks for posting that supporting reference. I also heard seminal fluid acts as an antidepressant for women. So this bonding/spiritual union that the physical act of sex is very real and backed by the science... ..thanks for sheading some insight into how Prince thought and approached life and love.




Yes, there are opiates in the seminal fluid. It numbs the woman's immune system for the act of sex, so her DNA won't attack his.



And there is also the basic fact that sex for most men and women just feels really good, especially when taken to the height of pleasure. Then if you add a sexy rock star with a big libido to that equation...well, it's off the charts good biggrin

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Reply #136 posted 09/11/18 2:27pm

endiadj

PeteSilas said:



endiadj said:


violetcrush said:



Right. This is where the gullibility and naivety at a younger age comes in to play. She shouldn't have signed the contract. It's a shame that he did not keep to his word. However, if she had been able to leave sooner, there was no guarantee that she would have had success with a record lsewhere.



This reminds me of a young Prince signing his first WB contract and not understanding the fine language that had him battling WB for the rights to his music for decades to come.

ya, and i always say that humans do what was done to them, i remind myself of this as a I always struggle with anger issues dealing with assholes. I just remember that they really don't like themselves too much. sometimes it works, others it doesnt and I lose it. You'd think it would work the opposite, that someone gets fucked and they'd have sympathy but usually it doesn't work that way.



I believe Prince did have good intentions for his artists, but you can't snap your fingers and make someone successful, Some of it's talent, but most of it's luck. I also believe Prince's attention span was as wide as the point of a needle. Easily distracted.
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Reply #137 posted 09/11/18 2:34pm

violetcrush

endiadj said:

I think Prince saw himself as a teacher in many facets of life, musically, spiritually, sexually, etc. I believe that's why he gravitated more towards the young ones. He wanted to be their teacher. Same with the women he chose to marry. "Virgins" of the mind and body...

Yes, I think he did enjoy the "teaching" aspect of it - as CatB and I posted - but he also needed the mental/intellectual stimulation. He seemed to also get bored easily - both with music and probably with women too. With the marriages - I think the first one was a result of a specific event, and the second one - I think Manuela was early to mid 20's, so it is probable that she was more experienced prior to the marriage. But yes, he seemed to be very interested in being "the first" in many situations.

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Reply #138 posted 09/11/18 2:38pm

violetcrush

endiadj said:

PeteSilas said:

ya, and i always say that humans do what was done to them, i remind myself of this as a I always struggle with anger issues dealing with assholes. I just remember that they really don't like themselves too much. sometimes it works, others it doesnt and I lose it. You'd think it would work the opposite, that someone gets fucked and they'd have sympathy but usually it doesn't work that way.

I believe Prince did have good intentions for his artists, but you can't snap your fingers and make someone successful, Some of it's talent, but most of it's luck. I also believe Prince's attention span was as wide as the point of a needle. Easily distracted.

Yes, he had his hands in too many pots - trying to spearhead too many things, which can derail projects with good intentions. Case in point - The Family. Very difficult to promote a new record in the US and plan a tour while filming a movie in Europe confused

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Reply #139 posted 09/11/18 3:56pm

PeteSilas

endiadj said:

PeteSilas said:

ya, and i always say that humans do what was done to them, i remind myself of this as a I always struggle with anger issues dealing with assholes. I just remember that they really don't like themselves too much. sometimes it works, others it doesnt and I lose it. You'd think it would work the opposite, that someone gets fucked and they'd have sympathy but usually it doesn't work that way.

I believe Prince did have good intentions for his artists, but you can't snap your fingers and make someone successful, Some of it's talent, but most of it's luck. I also believe Prince's attention span was as wide as the point of a needle. Easily distracted.

that's very true but from what i hear, he wasn't very interested in helping anyone but himself after the golden years with the time/vanity when he could do no wrong. I've known too many people like that in music and martial arts who want people under their thumbs and will do anything and everything to hurt them after a point.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #140 posted 09/11/18 4:03pm

ChocolateBox31
21

rolleyes

So Prince, whom fought 4 his first record deal & got it, fought 4 a movie deal & got it, fought 4 freedom from his WB contract & got it, fought 4 his masters & got them.Gets a curable illness & says 2 himself ok, I'm done. "Life is a Box Of Chocolates"
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Reply #141 posted 09/11/18 4:24pm

endiadj

PeteSilas said:



endiadj said:


PeteSilas said:


ya, and i always say that humans do what was done to them, i remind myself of this as a I always struggle with anger issues dealing with assholes. I just remember that they really don't like themselves too much. sometimes it works, others it doesnt and I lose it. You'd think it would work the opposite, that someone gets fucked and they'd have sympathy but usually it doesn't work that way.



I believe Prince did have good intentions for his artists, but you can't snap your fingers and make someone successful, Some of it's talent, but most of it's luck. I also believe Prince's attention span was as wide as the point of a needle. Easily distracted.

that's very true but from what i hear, he wasn't very interested in helping anyone but himself after the golden years with the time/vanity when he could do no wrong. I've known too many people like that in music and martial arts who want people under their thumbs and will do anything and everything to hurt them after a point.


We'll agree to disagree on this notion.
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Reply #142 posted 09/11/18 9:55pm

peggyon

endiadj said:

PeteSilas said:

that's very true but from what i hear, he wasn't very interested in helping anyone but himself after the golden years with the time/vanity when he could do no wrong. I've known too many people like that in music and martial arts who want people under their thumbs and will do anything and everything to hurt them after a point.

We'll agree to disagree on this notion.

Pete-i agree

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Reply #143 posted 09/11/18 9:56pm

luv4u

Moderator

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moderator

Reported thread off topic.

lock

Edmonton, AB - canada

Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture!
REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince
"I kind of wish there was a reason for Prince to make the site crash more" ~~ Ben
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Forums > Associated artists & people > Video: JILL JONES speaks about PRINCE during new interview & has written liner notes for "Piano & A Microphone 1983"