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Thread started 06/10/11 8:09pm

electricberet

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Which associated artist CDs have been counterfeited?

I found out recently that a Vanity 6 CD that I bought last year on Amazon Marketplace is a counterfeit. I know that counterfeits are also circulating of both Madhouse CDs, the Jill Jones CD, and the Apollonia 6 CD, as discussed in this Moquake thread:

http://www.moquake.com/fo...3&t=31

What other associated artist CDs have been counterfeited? I saw the discussion of Sheila E.'s self-titled album in the Prince forum, and was thinking of buying it from Amazon, but I don't know if the ones being sold there are legit. I know it is easy to download the music for free, which is all the more reason not to pay for fakes.

The Census Bureau estimates that there are 2,518 American Indians and Alaska Natives currently living in the city of Long Beach.
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Reply #1 posted 06/10/11 9:17pm

electricberet

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Fake Vanity 6

Above is a photo I took of the matrix numbers on the inner ring of the counterfeit Vanity 6 CD I bought. Note that the first character looks like an "I" rather than a "1."

The Census Bureau estimates that there are 2,518 American Indians and Alaska Natives currently living in the city of Long Beach.
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Reply #2 posted 06/10/11 11:02pm

minneapolisFun
q

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All of them

You're so glam, every time I see you I wanna slam!
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Reply #3 posted 06/10/11 11:12pm

djThunderfunk

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I haven't seen any fake Sheila E. CDs, so don't know about that one, but, I hadn't seen Vanity ones either.

I do know about the others you mentioned:

both Madhouse, Apollonia 6, Jill Jones

I'd add The Family & NPG's Gold Nigga to that list.

"I've made up my mind. Don't try to confuse me with the facts." - Harry J. Anslinger
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Reply #4 posted 06/10/11 11:15pm

djThunderfunk

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electricberet said:

Fake Vanity 6

Above is a photo I took of the matrix numbers on the inner ring of the counterfeit Vanity 6 CD I bought. Note that the first character looks like an "I" rather than a "1."

I compared to my disc which is positively real and I'm afraid you are correct, this one is fake.

"I've made up my mind. Don't try to confuse me with the facts." - Harry J. Anslinger
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Reply #5 posted 06/11/11 12:06am

squirrelgrease

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I think you can safely buy any commercial Sheila E CD because they are still in-print or were part of the 2008 Encore/Rhino re-release. Perhaps counterfeiters have made fakes of the relatively rare Japanese "Glamorous Club Dance" EP, but not that I've seen.

The Time's Pandemonium was also re-released on Encore and their other WB CDs are all in print as far as I'm aware.

So buyer beware:

Apollonia 6

Vanity 6

The Family

Mazarati

Mazarati 2

Jill Jones

NPG Goldnigga

Madhouse 8

Madhouse 16

If you see one of the above with remixes or extra tracks, it's going to be a boot/fake/counterfeit. For instance, some Goldnigga fakes will have the NPG 2gether EP tracks on the disc and that was never the case on the official release.

For some reason, the Daisy Chain CD-Single has been heavily counterfeited, but apparently not the more rare Peace CD-Single. Probably because of the elaborate packaging. The War CD-Single has also been counterfeited.

A couple of rare items that are surprisingly off the counterfeiter's radar, but will probably get there are the Japanese 1-800-NEW FUNK that had bonus tracks and the mail order exclusive Come On CD-Single.

Really, a collector has to do their homework in these days of cheap manufacturing and quick & easy sight-unseen transactions. One has to check feedback and how many of a particularly rare item that seller somehow manages to get their hands on. If it looks fishy, it probably is.

Thanks to the good folks over at MoQuake, and PrinceVault there are valuable tools to give the good guys the upper hand.

There's a brick-and-mortar record store near me that always has a supply of Vanity 6 CDs. Out of curiosity, I checked the matrix on the disc and sure enough, it was a fake. I knew this by remembering what to look for via that link you posted. The art was not as crisp on the booklet either, but neither are the booklets in the legitimate Encore associated releases.

Madhouse edit.

[Edited 6/11/11 9:27am]

If prince.org were to be made idiot proof, someone would just invent a better idiot.
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Reply #6 posted 06/11/11 5:52am

electricberet

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squirrelgrease said:

I think you can safely buy any commercial Sheila E CD because they are still in-print or were part of the 2008 Encore/Rhino re-release. Perhaps counterfeiters have made fakes of the relatively rare Japanese "Glamorous Club Dance" EP, but not that I've seen.

The Time's Pandemonium was also re-released on Encore and their other WB CDs are all in print as far as I'm aware.

So buyer beware:

Apollonia 6

Vanity 6

The Family

Mazarati

Mazarati 2

Jill Jones

NPG Goldnigga

If you see one of the above with remixes or extra tracks, it's going to be a boot/fake/counterfeit. For instance, some Goldnigga fakes will have the NPG 2gether EP tracks on the disc and that was never the case on the official release.

For some reason, the Daisy Chain CD-Single has been heavily counterfeited, but apparently not the more rare Peace CD-Single. Probably because of the elaborate packaging. The War CD-Single has also been counterfeited.

A couple of rare items that are surprisingly off the counterfeiter's radar, but will probably get there are the Japanese 1-800-NEW FUNK that had bonus tracks and the mail order exclusive Come On CD-Single.

Really, a collector has to do their homework in these days of cheap manufacturing and quick & easy sight-unseen transactions. One has to check feedback and how many of a particularly rare item that seller somehow manages to get their hands on. If it looks fishy, it probably is.

Thanks to the good folks over at MoQuake, and PrinceVault there are valuable tools to give the good guys the upper hand.

There's a brick-and-mortar record store near me that always has a supply of Vanity 6 CDs. Out of curiosity, I checked the matrix on the disc and sure enough, it was a fake. I knew this by remembering what to look for via that link you posted. The art was not as crisp on the booklet either, but neither are the booklets in the legitimate Encore associated releases.

Thanks so much! This is exactly the sort of information I was looking for. I know that Vanity 6 CD is a fake because an orger sold me an authentic one this week and the difference is obvious. My wife was able to tell in a second which one was the fake just by comparing the cover art, and she'd never seen a Vanity 6 CD before. But the counterfeiters seem to be getting better all the time. The matrix number font on the fake I bought looks closer to the real WB matrix number font than the fakes depicted on the Moquake thread.

One ironic thing is that most of these albums can be bought on vinyl for only a few dollars. I know it's all about supply and demand. But it's good to know that the Sheila E. stuff is most likely real.

The Census Bureau estimates that there are 2,518 American Indians and Alaska Natives currently living in the city of Long Beach.
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Reply #7 posted 06/11/11 9:29am

squirrelgrease

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^ Glad you finally got a real one and thanks for adding to that thread.

If prince.org were to be made idiot proof, someone would just invent a better idiot.
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Reply #8 posted 06/11/11 9:48am

electricberet

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BTW, one of the sellers currently hawking a Vanity 6 CD on Amazon Marketplace is also selling the Sheila E. self-titled album for the same price ($39.98) and with the exact same description:

CD in very good condition and plays perfectly. Complete with all inserts/artwork also in very good condition--no punch holes, sawcuts, or other markings. Free upgrade to 1st class shipping. Mailed in a sturdy bubble mailer. Buy with confidence from a one-person operation, where items are always in stock and accurate grading and descriptions are the norm, not the exception--as my feedback substantiates.

The seller's name is stone_alliance. I'm betting the Vanity 6 is a fake, and that makes me wonder about the Sheila E.

The Glamorous Life and Romance 1600 are both in print and available new for reasonable prices. It's the self-titled album that is out of print. Given the prices on Amazon, if it hasn't been counterfeited yet I expect it will be soon. One seller is asking $199.99 for a supposedly new sealed CD of Sheila E.

Also, a seller called premium-music wants $60.99 for an alleged Madhouse 8 CD with this description:

NOTE: This is NOT one of the many COUNTERFEITS that have been in circulation! This is the OFFICIAL 1987 U.S.-ONLY issue on PAISELY PARK/WARNER. This AUTHORIZED RELEASE bears the MATRIX CODE "25545-2 SRC-01" (digitally etched in the silver mirror band just outside of the disc hub). GUARANTEED AUTHENTIC! Disc in NEAR MINT shape, artwork in MINT condition. FREE UPGRADE TO EXPEDITED SHIPPING w/DELIVERY CONFIRMATION (Domestic) or AIR-MAIL (International). Very Rare & Out-Of-Print. (PAISELY PARK/WARNER)

Of course a lot of the fakes have the right matrix code; it's just that the font is wrong.

The Census Bureau estimates that there are 2,518 American Indians and Alaska Natives currently living in the city of Long Beach.
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Reply #9 posted 06/11/11 10:13am

squirrelgrease

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^ Yeah, if a seller has listed fakes in the past, it's best to just write them off.

You can still get the self-titled Sheila E CD for $12.98 from Rhino/Encore it seems: http://www.rhinomedia.com...mber=25498

But - they list the wrong title (Sex Cymbal, which they also re-issued in 2008) but correct track list and description. So maybe contacting them would be a good idea. They're the latest official label to release these discs.

If prince.org were to be made idiot proof, someone would just invent a better idiot.
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Reply #10 posted 06/11/11 11:27am

TheDigitalGard
ener

It's a shame that such cd's are still being sold on the likes of amazon. I guess where there is a demand/market, the bootleggers will always be there to supply.

I have met some people though, who do not seem to mind that they are buying such cd's (which is fine, each to their own), they would rather spend £20-30 or so on a fake than spend more time and money on finding a genuine copy.

Often though, these cd's seem to contain vinyl rips of albums (and often bad vinyl rips at that), so not all of them are even sourced from cd or lossless.

They may look real, some I have looked at are very good indeed, but the actual audio is often well below par.

[Edited 6/11/11 11:32am]

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Reply #11 posted 06/11/11 2:39pm

electricberet

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TheDigitalGardener said:

It's a shame that such cd's are still being sold on the likes of amazon. I guess where there is a demand/market, the bootleggers will always be there to supply.

I have met some people though, who do not seem to mind that they are buying such cd's (which is fine, each to their own), they would rather spend £20-30 or so on a fake than spend more time and money on finding a genuine copy.

Often though, these cd's seem to contain vinyl rips of albums (and often bad vinyl rips at that), so not all of them are even sourced from cd or lossless.

They may look real, some I have looked at are very good indeed, but the actual audio is often well below par.

[Edited 6/11/11 11:32am]

When I bought that Vanity 6 CD, the idea didn't even occur to me that it might be a counterfeit. I was surprised that the price was so high ($39), but I didn't even think about the possibility that fakes were being sold on Amazon. It wasn't that long ago that these CDs were being sold in stores brand new for a reasonable price.

The Rhino link doesn't seem to work, so I ordered a copy of Sheila E. from one of the Amazon sellers. The one I bought is fulfilled by Amazon, and I'm hoping it will be easy to return if it's a fake. If I think it's a fake, I'll post an image here before I return it.

Why anyone would knowingly pay money for a counterfeit CD when you can download the music for free is beyond me.

The Census Bureau estimates that there are 2,518 American Indians and Alaska Natives currently living in the city of Long Beach.
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Reply #12 posted 06/11/11 3:41pm

TheDigitalGard
ener

electricberet said:

TheDigitalGardener said:

It's a shame that such cd's are still being sold on the likes of amazon. I guess where there is a demand/market, the bootleggers will always be there to supply.

I have met some people though, who do not seem to mind that they are buying such cd's (which is fine, each to their own), they would rather spend £20-30 or so on a fake than spend more time and money on finding a genuine copy.

Often though, these cd's seem to contain vinyl rips of albums (and often bad vinyl rips at that), so not all of them are even sourced from cd or lossless.

They may look real, some I have looked at are very good indeed, but the actual audio is often well below par.

[Edited 6/11/11 11:32am]

Why anyone would knowingly pay money for a counterfeit CD when you can download the music for free is beyond me.

I'm with you on that, the argument that I have heard from some people is that they want a physical copy even if it happens to be a fake.

I am guilty of such a practice myself, I knowingly purchased a fake copy of Apollonia 6 a long time ago as I could not find a lossless download of it anywhere. Now, with a little more experience of such matters, I could probably find a genuine lossless rip of the cd.

However, these days, I would not entertain the idea of buying a fake (just to have a hard copy). A nice lossless download of something would be preferable to parting with cash for a bootleg. And that goes for any artist, not just Prince.

I liked the idea that you had about having a sticky on spotting fakes in the marketplace forum on this site. It could be updated when and if necessary.

Something along the lines of the thread at moquake would be great, and i'm sure that the info on that thread could be used on a thread on this site without anyone having a problem with it (maybe a pm sent to the people responsible for the moquake thread asking if it was ok).

Such a thread would be really useful at the org.

Maybe you could contact a mod about it, or start a thread in the site discussion forum.

wink

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Reply #13 posted 06/11/11 4:15pm

electricberet

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TheDigitalGardener said:

electricberet said:

Why anyone would knowingly pay money for a counterfeit CD when you can download the music for free is beyond me.

I'm with you on that, the argument that I have heard from some people is that they want a physical copy even if it happens to be a fake.

I am guilty of such a practice myself, I knowingly purchased a fake copy of Apollonia 6 a long time ago as I could not find a lossless download of it anywhere. Now, with a little more experience of such matters, I could probably find a genuine lossless rip of the cd.

However, these days, I would not entertain the idea of buying a fake (just to have a hard copy). A nice lossless download of something would be preferable to parting with cash for a bootleg. And that goes for any artist, not just Prince.

I liked the idea that you had about having a sticky on spotting fakes in the marketplace forum on this site. It could be updated when and if necessary.

Something along the lines of the thread at moquake would be great, and i'm sure that the info on that thread could be used on a thread on this site without anyone having a problem with it (maybe a pm sent to the people responsible for the moquake thread asking if it was ok).

Such a thread would be really useful at the org.

Maybe you could contact a mod about it, or start a thread in the site discussion forum.

wink

Good idea. See here: http://prince.org/msg/3/360834

The Census Bureau estimates that there are 2,518 American Indians and Alaska Natives currently living in the city of Long Beach.
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