TheFreakerFantastic said:

^ Don't stress Trem...just head to the Vondelpark for a drink or a smoke...that'll chill u !

I am not stressing. That may be your perception, but for me this is more relaxing than it is interesting. And you may take your advice at heart yourself.

^ Thank you, i hopefully will sometime in future, perhaps you can join me?

Well, to be frank with you, I don't think that you want to understand me, so I would rather pass on that too.

^ LOL

By the way I-tunes terms and conditions arent the same as 3rdyegirl.

Their terms allow for a lot more:

USAGE RULES

(i) You shall be authorized to use iTunes Products only for personal, noncommercial use.

(ii) You shall be authorized to use iTunes Products on five iTunes-authorized devices at any time, except for Content Rentals (see below).

(iii) You shall be able to store iTunes Products from up to five different Accounts at a time on compatible devices, provided that each iPhone may sync tone iTunes Products with only a single iTunes-authorized device at a time, and syncing an iPhone with a different iTunes-authorized device will cause tone iTunes Products stored on that iPhone to be erased.

(iv) You shall be authorized to burn an audio playlist up to seven times.

(v) You shall not be entitled to burn video iTunes Products or tone iTunes Products.

(vi) iTunes Plus Products do not contain security technology that limits your usage of such products, and Usage Rules (ii) – (v) do not apply to iTunes Plus Products. You may copy, store, and burn iTunes Plus Products as reasonably necessary for personal, noncommercial use.

(vii) You shall be able to manually sync a movie from at least one iTunes-authorized device to devices that have manual sync mode, provided that the movie is associated with an Account on the primary iTunes-authorized device, where the primary iTunes-authorized device is the one that was first synced with the device or the one that you subsequently designate as primary using iTunes.

Seriously folks, if that language wouldn't mean a thing, it wouldn't be there. Ask any lawyer. Oh.

Tremolina said:

I am "prohibited" from using or accessing 3reygirl.com. Simply because I do not agree with all the website's terms and conditions of use, or terms of service.

The terms say:

Web Site Terms and Conditions of Use

1. Terms

By accessing this web site, you are agreeing to be bound by these web site Terms and Conditions of Use, all applicable laws and regulations, and agree that you are responsible for compliance with any applicable local laws. If you do not agree with any of these terms, you are prohibited from using or accessing this site.

The fact of the matter is, that by accessing the website, I do agree to be bound by all applicable law and regulations, and also that I am responsible for compliance with any applicable local laws. But I do not agree with all the site terms and conditions of use that are set on me by the website.

So, now I am prohibited from using or accessing this site, says the terms.

Why do I not agree with the terms? Well for one, beause they prohibit me from using or even accessing the site when I do not agree with any and all conditions it sets.

But there are several more terms and conditions of use that I do not agree with. Let me pick out just one for now, for the sake of simplicity.

Under paragraph 2 of the terms it says:

2. Use License

1. Permission is granted to temporarily download one copy of the materials (information or software) on NPG Records’s web site for personal, non-commercial transitory viewing only. This is the grant of a license, not a transfer of title, and under this license you may not:
   1. modify or copy the materials;
   2. use the materials for any commercial purpose, or for any public display (commercial or non-commercial);
   3. attempt to decompile or reverse engineer any software contained on NPG Records’s web site;
   4. remove any copyright or other proprietary notations from the materials; or
   5. transfer the materials to another person or “mirror” the materials on any other server.
2. This license shall automatically terminate if you violate any of these restrictions and may be terminated by NPG Records at any time. Upon terminating your viewing of these materials or upon the termination of this license, you must destroy any downloaded materials in your possession whether in electronic or printed format.

What this simply put says is, that when I buy a song on 3rdeyegirl.com, I do not own the copy of the song that I pay for to download. It's not like when I go into a record store when I buy a copy and own it, and therefore can sell it or lend it or make copies for personal, non commercial use of it. On 3rdeyegirl.com I only buy a "license" or conditional permission to "temporarily download one copy".

That one copy only is "for personal, non-commercial transitory viewing only". Transitory meaning only temporarily, meaning one day, who knows when, I might not be allowed to view or listen to my legally purchased copy any longer. Moreover, I am also not allowed to make any copies of the material, not even for personal, non-commercial purposes. Since I may only make one copy and not make any copies of that copy.

Strictly and all lawyery speaking this means that when I buy a song from 3rdeyegirl , I may only listen to it on the device that I download it on. Since I am only allowed to make one copy. That means that if I download it on my computer, I am not in my rights to transfer a copy to my Ipod for example, or make a CD of it and listen to it on my stereo, or in the car, or wherever. Let alone sell my legally purchased copy to anyone.

Since I only bought a "license", a permission to make and listen to only one copy. But in my country, the Netherlands, the law says that I am allowed to make a copy for my personal use. That's "my applicable local law". So why would I sign that away? They even ask me to comply with my local laws. So I simply don't agree with doing that.

Of course I could say: who cares? Copy away! But I would ask then: what are these terms of service really worth then and why do you force me to agree with them? For sure, if hypothetically speaking, there were ever any lawsuit about it (you never know with Prince), these terms would be worth a lot. But would a lawsuit be worth it in the first place? I don't think so.

Then why still force your customers to agree to such draconic terms? Why not be just a little bit more fair and realistic, less controlling and most of all more practical.

No, no go for me. And I am not going to download it illegally either. I think I will just PASS (again).

__

[Edited 6/20/13 13:50pm]

I wouldn't agree to those terms either. You seem intelligent so you should already know why a website dealing with Prince can't be a little bit more fair, realistic, less controlling and practical.

I also agree that a lawsuit wouldn't be worth it. I think Prince and 3rd Eye Girl could win a case against anyone who violated their terms. Prince has been involved in lots of lawsuits where he had to pay others so you're a smart man to not put yourself in a position where you could possibly be sued by Prince and 3rd Eye Girl for violating their terms.

Tremolina said:

bobzilla77 said:

If I took the time to read and comprehend every terms of use agreement put in front of me to click I would still be trying to sign up for Itunes. I've probably agreed to all kinds of crazy stuff. They could be coming to turn me into a Human Cent-Ipad.

I just don't sweat it.

If that's not a good enough answer for you, then by all means, stay off the internet. Don't let people make you do anything you don't want to do.

You won't be able to access their websites but you will have a lot of confidence that the long arm of the law is not coming after you.

If you are saying you should be able to access it without signing that agreement, well, you might have to argue that point with them. It's their site and they're within their rights to set terms of use.

I haven't paid for any 3eg downloads, even though I was tempted, I would only ever pay for MP3 that I owned.

I'm not paying for a license fee that can be revoked when Prince changes webservers.

That's just my decision that the product isn't worth the asking price.

Uhm, I think I made it clear that is why I also decide not to purchase.

Boy, do people read more than 2 lines of my posts or what?

I do!!!

^ Wow Stymie, impressive you're still awake after that sea of legalese!

Tremolina said:

Seriously folks, if that language wouldn't mean a thing, it wouldn't be there. Ask any lawyer. Oh.

We're all very impressed. As I said before, I manage artist websites for a living. Terms Of Use statements are there to protect the operator, nothing more. I've been doing this for nearly 10 years, and in all the time, we've never pursued anything posted in a TOU. They are drafted, posted and never considered again.

[Edited 6/20/13 20:05pm]

TwiliteKid said:

Tremolina said:

Seriously folks, if that language wouldn't mean a thing, it wouldn't be there. Ask any lawyer. Oh.

We're all very impressed. As I said before, I manage artist websites for a living. Terms Of Use statements are there to protect the operator, nothing more. I've been doing this for nearly 10 years, and in all the time, we've never pursued anything posted in a TOU. They are drafted, posted and never considered again.

[Edited 6/20/13 20:05pm]

"We"are? I don't appreciate your condescending tone, nor do I consider your individual opinion to be plural, let alone legally corect.

My post was about the I-tunes terms. You don't work for i-tunes now too, do you?

-

[Edited 6/21/13 4:37am]

TheFreakerFantastic said:

^ Wow Stymie, impressive you're still awake after that sea of legalese!

And so were you. Yeah really impressive.

You folks have issues. Always baiting and being condescending to people you don't agree with it.

Tsss...

Tremolina said:

TheFreakerFantastic said:

^ Wow Stymie, impressive you're still awake after that sea of legalese!

And so were you. Yeah really impressive.

You folks have issues. Always baiting and being condescending to people you don't agree with it.

Tsss...

Yep.

Tremolina said:

TwiliteKid said:

We're all very impressed. As I said before, I manage artist websites for a living. Terms Of Use statements are there to protect the operator, nothing more. I've been doing this for nearly 10 years, and in all the time, we've never pursued anything posted in a TOU. They are drafted, posted and never considered again.

[Edited 6/20/13 20:05pm]

"We"are? I don't appreciate your condescending tone, nor do I consider your individual opinion to be plural, let alone legally corect.

My post was about the I-tunes terms. You don't work for i-tunes now too, do you?

-

[Edited 6/21/13 4:37am]

I am being condescending you're right. Legal degree or not, you don't work in the realm. What I'm telling you is not based on opinion, but experience.

And no, I didn't realize that last post was related directly to iTunes (lawyers should pay attention to detail like names, surely), but it doesn't change a thing about what I've said.

For future reference: You don't want to be piled on? Don't start threads like this.

[Edited 6/21/13 6:01am]

TwiliteKid said:

Tremolina said:

"We"are? I don't appreciate your condescending tone, nor do I consider your individual opinion to be plural, let alone legally corect.

My post was about the I-tunes terms. You don't work for i-tunes now too, do you?

-

[Edited 6/21/13 4:37am]

I am being condescending you're right. Legal degree or not, you don't work in the realm. What I'm telling you is not based on opinion, but experience.

And no, I didn't realize that last post was related directly to iTunes (lawyers should pay attention to detail like names, surely), but it doesn't change a thing about what I've said.

For future reference: You don't want to be piled on? Don't start threads like this.

[Edited 6/21/13 6:01am]

Condescending, not paying attention and not comprehending. I do work in the field. You don't know enough of copyright law to know what you are talking about. All you know is the clients you claim to have who never take action on these matters. That's a very limited point of view.

By the way there is no reason to "pile" on me, just because I started a discussion. That in fact is in violation of the site rules, but I am sure you think that those aren't enforced either right?

Tremolina said:

TwiliteKid said:

I am being condescending you're right. Legal degree or not, you don't work in the realm. What I'm telling you is not based on opinion, but experience.

And no, I didn't realize that last post was related directly to iTunes (lawyers should pay attention to detail like names, surely), but it doesn't change a thing about what I've said.

For future reference: You don't want to be piled on? Don't start threads like this.

[Edited 6/21/13 6:01am]

Condescending, not paying attention and not comprehending. I do work in the field. You don't know enough of copyright law to know what you are talking about. All you know is the clients you claim to have who never take action on these matters. That's a very limited point of view.

By the way there is no reason to "pile" on me, just because I started a discussion. That in fact is in violation of the site rules, but I am sure you think that those aren't enforced either right?

Oh I'm paying attention alright, and I understand exactly what you're saying. None of that changes the fact that in the real world, these statements aren't enforced. And no, being a copyright lawyer doesn't mean you work in this field, or that know anyting about these policies and the operation of an artist website. Even on the terms of use alone there are many other issues involved than simply statements of license and copyright.

Nice attempt at calling into question my qualifications, by the way, but if you expect me to take your word on being an attorny than you'll have to take it on faith that the company I work for is a major player in the business of operating major recording artists online operations. I personally have more than 20 different acts in my portfolio, and I'm willing to bet you visit some of those sites yourself. If anyone has a limited point of view in this discussion, it's you.

Lastly: I have read the rules, and I've seen them enforced firsthand. I'm attacking your ideas, not you. If I happen to be condesending while I do it, well that's not covered. And by "piled on", I was referring to the overwhelming response you've gotten here, not me in particular. You want this to go better next time? Don't be so melodramtic.

[Edited 6/21/13 10:10am]

[Edited 6/21/13 10:32am]

Tremolina said:

TheFreakerFantastic said:

^ Wow Stymie, impressive you're still awake after that sea of legalese!

And so were you. Yeah really impressive.

You folks have issues. Always baiting and being condescending to people you don't agree with it.

Tsss...

I'm not baiting you Trem, u seem a nice guy, it was just a joke!!! I was trying to get you to not be so pedantic really! To get you to chill, because TBH all these sites nowadays have ridiculous Ts and Cs...u even now have to sign them in order to accept cookies on major websites....! But realistically all this legal small print rarely gets enforced and checked and if they did they'd be public outcry. Remember all that fuss when Facebook changed their Ts and Cs to allow photo's to be used without permission? Well all that public outcry caused them to retract the changes.

[Edited 6/21/13 10:03am]

[Edited 6/21/13 10:05am]

Sassey said:

Tremolina said:

I am "prohibited" from using or accessing 3reygirl.com. Simply because I do not agree with all the website's terms and conditions of use, or terms of service.

The terms say:

What this simply put says is, that when I buy a song on 3rdeyegirl.com, I do not own the copy of the song that I pay for to download. It's not like when I go into a record store when I buy a copy and own it, and therefore can sell it or lend it or make copies for personal, non commercial use of it. On 3rdeyegirl.com I only buy a "license" or conditional permission to "temporarily download one copy".

That one copy only is "for personal, non-commercial transitory viewing only". Transitory meaning only temporarily, meaning one day, who knows when, I might not be allowed to view or listen to my legally purchased copy any longer. Moreover, I am also not allowed to make any copies of the material, not even for personal, non-commercial purposes. Since I may only make one copy and not make any copies of that copy.

Strictly and all lawyery speaking this means that when I buy a song from 3rdeyegirl , I may only listen to it on the device that I download it on. Since I am only allowed to make one copy. That means that if I download it on my computer, I am not in my rights to transfer a copy to my Ipod for example, or make a CD of it and listen to it on my stereo, or in the car, or wherever. Let alone sell my legally purchased copy to anyone.

Since I only bought a "license", a permission to make and listen to only one copy. But in my country, the Netherlands, the law says that I am allowed to make a copy for my personal use. That's "my applicable local law". So why would I sign that away? They even ask me to comply with my local laws. So I simply don't agree with doing that.

Of course I could say: who cares? Copy away! But I would ask then: what are these terms of service really worth then and why do you force me to agree with them? For sure, if hypothetically speaking, there were ever any lawsuit about it (you never know with Prince), these terms would be worth a lot. But would a lawsuit be worth it in the first place? I don't think so.

Then why still force your customers to agree to such draconic terms? Why not be just a little bit more fair and realistic, less controlling and most of all more practical.

No, no go for me. And I am not going to download it illegally either. I think I will just PASS (again).

__

[Edited 6/20/13 13:50pm]

I wouldn't agree to those terms either. You seem intelligent so you should already know why a website dealing with Prince can't be a little bit more fair, realistic, less controlling and practical.

I also agree that a lawsuit wouldn't be worth it. I think Prince and 3rd Eye Girl could win a case against anyone who violated their terms. Prince has been involved in lots of lawsuits where he had to pay others so you're a smart man to not put yourself in a position where you could possibly be sued by Prince and 3rd Eye Girl for violating their terms.

I am really not thinking that I might get sued here, or anyone for that matter.

Like I said, for me this is mostly a matter of principle. Prince's website forces me to sign away my legal rights just to be allowed listen to his music. I can't lawfully listen to it any other way, so what are they really doing? They are forcing me to agree to something they and I know is wrong, just like his former record company forces people to agree to things they all know are wrong.

It's just wrong. And if I don't agree with it, the only way to listen to the new music is to do more wrong and dowload it illegally, not paying them a dime. You know, more than a man of control, Prince is a man of principles. But upholding those only seem to matter when it suits him. That don't work with me. Of course, most people do not give a flying shit and believe I am exaggerating and stuff, but I don't care about that.



__

[Edited 6/21/13 10:22am]

Tremolina said:

Sassey said:

I wouldn't agree to those terms either. You seem intelligent so you should already know why a website dealing with Prince can't be a little bit more fair, realistic, less controlling and practical.

I also agree that a lawsuit wouldn't be worth it. I think Prince and 3rd Eye Girl could win a case against anyone who violated their terms. Prince has been involved in lots of lawsuits where he had to pay others so you're a smart man to not put yourself in a position where you could possibly be sued by Prince and 3rd Eye Girl for violating their terms.

I am really not thinking that I might get sued here, or anyone for that matter.

Like I said, for me this is mostly a matter of principle. Prince's website forces me to sign away my legal rights just to be allowed listen to his music. I can't lawfully listen to it any other way, so what are they really doing? They are forcing me to agree to something they and I know is wrong, just like his former record company forces people to agree to things they all know are wrong.

It's just wrong. And if I don't agree with it, the only way to listen to the new music is to do more wrong and dowload it illegally, not paying them a dime. You know, more than a man of control, Prince is a man of principles. But upholding those only seem to matter when it suits him. That don't work with me. Of course, most people do not give a flying shit and believe I am exaggerating and stuff, but I don't care about that.



__

[Edited 6/21/13 10:22am]

Wow Prince treating people a way he doesn't want to be treated. I am so shocked.

^

In all fairness to Prince and the new website (team) tho' : I heard they sent out an email at some point explaining that you are allowed to download the files you purchased on more than just one device.

If true, I take back of what I said before about them only allowing for one copy. It's still not in the terms, but if they mailed it out to all the customers that they are entitled to use the material on several devices like ipods, pads and phones, then props to them.

TheFreakerFantastic said:

Tremolina said:

And so were you. Yeah really impressive.

You folks have issues. Always baiting and being condescending to people you don't agree with it.

Tsss...

I'm not baiting you Trem, u seem a nice guy, it was just a joke!!! I was trying to get you to not be so pedantic really! To get you to chill, because TBH all these sites nowadays have ridiculous Ts and Cs...u even now have to sign them in order to accept cookies on major websites....! But realistically all this legal small print rarely gets enforced and checked and if they did they'd be public outcry. Remember all that fuss when Facebook changed their Ts and Cs to allow photo's to be used without permission? Well all that public outcry caused them to retract the changes.

[Edited 6/21/13 10:03am]

[Edited 6/21/13 10:05am]

With all due respect Freaker, maybe you are the one that needs to chill, because I am really chilled out here. There is no conflict or personal attacks. It's only Twilightkid and you who feel the need to jump or "pile" on me.

As for your argument that all (major) corporation use draconic terms and that it's basically all a joke because everybody signs but doesn't act like it anyway: that proves that you don't understand what I am talking about. You don't understand what that means or can mean legally.

^ I do, that's why I'm telling you to chill, now get a drink and enjoy the weekend stop nitpicking over little things!

TheFreakerFantastic said:

^ I do, that's why I'm telling you to chill, now get a drink and enjoy the weekend stop nitpicking over little things!

No, you don't, because it's not a "little thing". I understand why YOU and most people think it is, but YOU and most people don't understand why I don't.

By the way: have a swell weekend freaker

Tremolina said:

^

In all fairness to Prince and the new website (team) tho' : I heard they sent out an email at some point explaining that you are allowed to download the files you purchased on more than just one device.

If true, I take back of what I said before about them only allowing for one copy. It's still not in the terms, but if they mailed it out to all the customers that they are entitled to use the material on several devices like ipods, pads and phones, then props to them.

By the way 2: this seems to be incorrect. However, if anybody can tell me that they did send out an e-mail stating that you are allowed to download to several devices, then I would appreciate it.

Tremolina said:

By the way: have a swell weekend freaker

Thanks....u do know i'm cool with u right?

^ Frankly speaking?

Tremolina said:

I am "prohibited" from using or accessing 3reygirl.com. Simply because I do not agree with all the website's terms and conditions of use, or terms of service.

The terms say:

Web Site Terms and Conditions of Use

1. Terms

By accessing this web site, you are agreeing to be bound by these web site Terms and Conditions of Use, all applicable laws and regulations, and agree that you are responsible for compliance with any applicable local laws. If you do not agree with any of these terms, you are prohibited from using or accessing this site.

The fact of the matter is, that by accessing the website, I do agree to be bound by all applicable law and regulations, and also that I am responsible for compliance with any applicable local laws. But I do not agree with all the site terms and conditions of use that are set on me by the website.

So, now I am prohibited from using or accessing this site, says the terms.

Why do I not agree with the terms? Well for one, beause they prohibit me from using or even accessing the site when I do not agree with any and all conditions it sets.

But there are several more terms and conditions of use that I do not agree with. Let me pick out just one for now, for the sake of simplicity.

Under paragraph 2 of the terms it says:

2. Use License

1. Permission is granted to temporarily download one copy of the materials (information or software) on NPG Records’s web site for personal, non-commercial transitory viewing only. This is the grant of a license, not a transfer of title, and under this license you may not:
   1. modify or copy the materials;
   2. use the materials for any commercial purpose, or for any public display (commercial or non-commercial);
   3. attempt to decompile or reverse engineer any software contained on NPG Records’s web site;
   4. remove any copyright or other proprietary notations from the materials; or
   5. transfer the materials to another person or “mirror” the materials on any other server.
2. This license shall automatically terminate if you violate any of these restrictions and may be terminated by NPG Records at any time. Upon terminating your viewing of these materials or upon the termination of this license, you must destroy any downloaded materials in your possession whether in electronic or printed format.

What this simply put says is, that when I buy a song on 3rdeyegirl.com, I do not own the copy of the song that I pay for to download. It's not like when I go into a record store when I buy a copy and own it, and therefore can sell it or lend it or make copies for personal, non commercial use of it. On 3rdeyegirl.com I only buy a "license" or conditional permission to "temporarily download one copy".

That one copy is "for personal, non-commercial transitory viewing only". Transitory meaning only temporarily, meaning one day, who knows when, I might not be allowed to view or listen to my legally purchased copy any longer. Moreover, I am also not allowed to make any copies of the material, not even for personal, non-commercial purposes. Since I may only make one copy and not make any copies of that copy.

Strictly and all lawyery speaking this means that when I buy a song from 3rdeyegirl , I may only listen to it on the device that I download it on. Since I am only allowed to make one copy. That means that if I download it on my computer, I am not in my rights to transfer a copy to my Ipod for example, or make a CD of it and listen to it on my stereo, or in the car, or wherever. Let alone sell my legally purchased copy to anyone.

Since I only bought a "license", a permission to make and listen to only one copy. But in my country, the Netherlands, the law says that I am allowed to make a copy for my personal use. That's "my applicable local law". So why would I sign that away? They even ask me to comply with my local laws, but this way they are not complying with mine. So I simply don't agree with doing that.

Of course I could say: who cares? Copy away! But I would ask then: what are these terms of service really worth then and why do you force me to agree with them? For sure, if hypothetically speaking, there were ever any lawsuit about it (you never know with Prince), these terms would be worth a lot. But would a lawsuit be worth it in the first place? I don't think so.

Then why still force your customers to agree to such draconic terms? Why not be just a little bit more fair and realistic, less controlling and most of all more practical.

No, no go for me. And I am not going to download it illegally either. I think I will just PASS (again).

__

[Edited 6/22/13 5:20am]

It must be nice to have THAT MUCH TIME on your hands!

honer said:

Tremolina said:

I am "prohibited" from using or accessing 3reygirl.com. Simply because I do not agree with all the website's terms and conditions of use, or terms of service.

The terms say:

What this simply put says is, that when I buy a song on 3rdeyegirl.com, I do not own the copy of the song that I pay for to download. It's not like when I go into a record store when I buy a copy and own it, and therefore can sell it or lend it or make copies for personal, non commercial use of it. On 3rdeyegirl.com I only buy a "license" or conditional permission to "temporarily download one copy".

That one copy is "for personal, non-commercial transitory viewing only". Transitory meaning only temporarily, meaning one day, who knows when, I might not be allowed to view or listen to my legally purchased copy any longer. Moreover, I am also not allowed to make any copies of the material, not even for personal, non-commercial purposes. Since I may only make one copy and not make any copies of that copy.

Strictly and all lawyery speaking this means that when I buy a song from 3rdeyegirl , I may only listen to it on the device that I download it on. Since I am only allowed to make one copy. That means that if I download it on my computer, I am not in my rights to transfer a copy to my Ipod for example, or make a CD of it and listen to it on my stereo, or in the car, or wherever. Let alone sell my legally purchased copy to anyone.

Since I only bought a "license", a permission to make and listen to only one copy. But in my country, the Netherlands, the law says that I am allowed to make a copy for my personal use. That's "my applicable local law". So why would I sign that away? They even ask me to comply with my local laws, but this way they are not complying with mine. So I simply don't agree with doing that.

Of course I could say: who cares? Copy away! But I would ask then: what are these terms of service really worth then and why do you force me to agree with them? For sure, if hypothetically speaking, there were ever any lawsuit about it (you never know with Prince), these terms would be worth a lot. But would a lawsuit be worth it in the first place? I don't think so.

Then why still force your customers to agree to such draconic terms? Why not be just a little bit more fair and realistic, less controlling and most of all more practical.

No, no go for me. And I am not going to download it illegally either. I think I will just PASS (again).

__

[Edited 6/22/13 5:20am]

It must be nice to have THAT MUCH TIME on your hands!

And yet another wanker making shit personal without having any arguments.

Tremolina said: