Ouch !!

About time, I always wondered how I could finally become a REAL fan. Thx jayenell for telling me.

Actually, u know wot ? I don't want to be a fan if this is what I have to do. I will just convert (inf front of everybody here) to a 'normal' person who happens to lovve Prince's music and every now and then buys a member ticket (member, not fan !), puts on his Symbol T-Shirt and grooves the night away with lovely people I meet during the concert.

I leave all this beina fan B***sh** to you guys. U obviously have a lot of practise and call the shots around here.

Peace & B (not so terribly) wild.

K.

The biggest problem I could see was the fact that we couldn't go straight into the seated area once the Apollo doors opened. We were in the first half of the queue outside but thanks to the 'bunching up' our seats were three rows from the back of the member section.

I'd also like to know which fans were handing their passes over to other people at the queue for the aftershow. Thanks to these retards we nearly got denied access, because the bouncer didn't believe the pass actually belonged to me!

Luckily we did get in, and the show was so amazing I forgot all about the trouble

jayenell said:[quote]You are all pathetic, sorry.

Queueing is normal in The Netherlands and Germany. I remember queueing for 2 days (or even more) for a Prince concert, even for tickets before the internet tickets. If you're a fan you are queueing. If not, you're not a fan. What are the reasons people can not queue:

1. You cannot get off from work, etc. Bull, if you're a fan, you can. What you say? "I can be fired" So!?

Ummm, without my job I wouldn't be able to afford to be a Prince fan. As it is I don't have enough money to splash out on a computer of my own with all the software so as yet I am not a Member of the NPGMC. I am still, and have been for ten years a big Prince fan though and from what I've heard from people I met at the Thursday show, the whole soundcheck fiasco was made far worse by people who were doing anything they could to get to the front. I was way out at the back and had a fantastic time nevertheless. I would have loved to be on the front row, but even if I had managed to get tickets I wouldn't have been able to queue for hours anyway because I have "a job". People need to learn to have some respect for others, surely that is what his music has been telling us for decades?

We DO have queues in London, honey. We DO have jobs to hold down. And if being a Prince fan means suffering to you, you need to get out more.

Incidentally, Nate - good point, well argued. Hope you enjoyed the show.

To a point Gav I agree with what your saying and yes the Apollo obviously had no idea as to what the hell was going on but the systems which were set up were absolute garbage

Anyone with a little common sense would have walked along the queue asking people if they had a raffle tickets or asked them when they joined the queue rather than just standing in one place and dishing them out.

I certainly wasn't going to the back of the queue after being there 1 1/2 hours already and of course when you got inside none of it mattered as the ticket collection and subsequent queue to get into the venue ensure everyone was mixed up.

SquirrelMeat said:

this is far too sensible, it'll never happen. like i said, i just want one of these guys to post so we can see where they're coming from, but yeah, like someone said, they're probly buying raffle tickets in manchester as we speak !

jayenell said:

That is it than: I am not a fan. And to be honest that is fine with me. I rather have a life than queuing up all day (let alone 2 days???!!), granting favors to the people who lick my ass best or most, and be oh so 'important' in the innercircle of other FANatics... maybe Prince is right afterall.

Try to follow the concert??? You should be in the back - really it is much better to follow a concert in the back than at the front.

superune said:

LOL!

jayenell said:

You obviously don't have any kids, mortgage, debt or responsibility.

Bully for her.

Just because we are used to suffering doesn't mean we have to...

FWIW: I turned up at around 4 on Saturday... Didn't know anything about any system (waste of time if you ask me).

As far as I'm concerned it was first come first served... If you were determined to get to the venue early enough to get to the front of the queue then you deserved to get on the first row... that's what queueing is all about.

I was on the first row of the second block (around 10 rows back I think)... Prince came into the crowd and stopped around 8 feet away from me... The horn section stopped beside me and Candy walked into my aisle, stood right in front of me and blowing her horn (she looks even better that close)... After that, I was kinda glad I didn't get right up front.

I was close enough to be happy... Close enough to try and figure out what chord shapes Prince was playing on his guitar... And hell! I got better seats than Denise van Outen, Dido and Leo Sayer !

BTW: Did anyone notice the two guys that got kicked from their seats when the celebs turned up? I hope that wasn't celebrity favouritism.

Al
[This message was edited Mon Oct 7 6:17:14 PDT 2002 by headhunter]

Especially when those celebs left half way through...so rude

Leo stayed until the end mind but obviously it didnt make him feel like dancing...dancing the night away

Hi 2 all,

I was at the London shows, and boy was it chaotic. I got bruised from the pushing and shoving!

My thoughts...

I think if someone is willing to queue up for ages then they deserve to be at the front, because they have put the graft in...HOWEVER!!! I was annoyed to see certain people always pushing in, queueing means you join the END of a queue, not PUSH IN. If everyone queued FAIRLY, everything would be cool.

I don't think the seats should be allocated, because some people go in groups of more than 2 and it would mean that that the rest of the people would have be split up, and if you r going to a gig with your mates, then you wanna sit with them and enjoy it with them. Also buying tix over the net isn't really fair, because the site went down, and some people aren't able to get to a PC to buy tix when they are released for purchase.

THEREFORE, I believe...that GA is the fairest way, if everyone, just chilled out a bit, and didn't push and shove, and mellowed out it would be a better experience 4 us all. Chill out and stop turning up 12 hours ahead of the concert... I spoke to someone who turned up at 7.30 am on Saturday!!!

I think the Apollo was also partly to blame. If people have queued then surely they should be let in in the same order. Why did they have to hold us at the doors before the concert hall for over an hour. Packed like SARDINES!!!
This is were the queuing system breaks down, I got pushed and shoved beyond belief!

Also, let someone else have a go at the front...Chill out and enjoy the music, because after all thats whats it about.

Just wanted 2 say that I met some really warm people, therefore despite the fiasco with the queuing, I had a fantastic time.

Peace

I think it's really selfish of people who just have to be in the front row at every show they go to.

I have been to several Prince shows and the closet I've ever been is row 4. I was at one show with seats that were all the way in the back of the venue.

As other people are saying, I have noticed that certain people are always in the front and they always get onstage and this includes the Celebration shows too.

It's just not possible to prevent this. Going back to allocated seats with numbers will lead to the kind of problems that happened early in the tour with Ticketmaster putting club members in row 20 and in the balcony.

Let me give my angle because I was there from Day 1 and helping the queueing on the final day.

Let me make it clear first of all, I don't have a goatee - I never have had, so i hope I'm not the guy who is on your hit list, Starbass

Secondly, I do believe that all if the people who tried to administer the queuing despite the system's faults were doing so with the intention of making it fair.

I remained in queue from the time I joined on each day, although I appreciate that the queueing system did not demand this - and that was explained to me.

A name system was started on Day 1. Apollo management agreed that, with so many people attending earlier than usual i.e. before 8pm start, an orderly queue needed to be formed. In America, a name list had operated and reports suggested that this had worked reasonably well for the general admission policy which is enforced and clearly stated on the NPGMC website. (There were reports of some people arriving late and ignoring the name list in America by queue jumping which did annoy people, but the list system seemed the fairest way to cope with GA for the person who organised it. We all know or have read that it broke down on day 1 when the Apollo issues seated tickets and then different people had differnt expectations).

When people gave their names they were each advised (or should have been - this happened with me) that the queue would form at a certain time and only then would the Apollo management admit people in an ordely fashion. Apollo security, for example, had had total chaos prevailing several weeks before when a similar queue got out of hand and fans (Bon Jovi) started brawling on the pavement.

The same guy from the first night who organised was not going to be at the concert on the second night so some other fans took over the name list on the second day. Because of the language barriers, some people may well have said they would write their own name on the list and wrote more than one name. Additionally, when the list was called on Day 2, some people conveniently or innocently 'heard' their name and joined the queue at the wrong place. The list compilers then tried to enforce the order and some people complied and some people objected.

On the third day, I arrived early. I was second in the queue. It was General Admission and I wanted to be on the front row: I had never been on the front row of a Prince concert, and I wanted to experience it (please fill in the saddo bits here - I will live with it:-)). I was second in the queue. After about an hour some people began to ask where the list was, and it became apparent that a list was expected to avoid confusion as numbers swelled. Many of the people there did not have a great command of English and I took it upon myself (I now realise I was mad!) to help so I traipsed off to buy a big pad of paper. I purchased the paper and returned. By the time I had returned, the guys who had organised the day before had arrived. They agreed to run the organisation again, but - with the agreement of everyone who had already arrived said they would expect to go in first. They also said they need one extra guy to help, and I agreed seeing as I was now already up for it! They recognised the name system had not worked perfectly, so they proposed the raffle ticket approach so people suddenly didn't adopt the name John Smith or John Doe or whatever and jump the queue. It was agreed that no-one could have more than one ticket for themselves as an NPGMC member and one for their guest, if they had a guest. Some people asked for more tickets and were refused. The system was explained to everyone that received a ticket - at least by me - and I always heard the ticket sytstem being explained by the other guys. Everyone was advised to be back for the queue at 3pm. The guys who had organised the queue put notices in English on ever door saying to ask for (names removed) for the queue tickets, and I regularly walked up to people throughout the day asking them to get a ticket to try to make this system work. Some people probably got bored of me asking them - but were very supportive. With hindsight, the notices could have been clearer - in different languages, but the notices were an attempt to improve on the previous days Others sent newcomers to the front to get a ticket. Many, many people either came to the front asking to be added to the list, because they had been the previous days, or had heard about the list from prince.org. and we issued them tickets.

When the queue formed at around 3pm on Saturday practically everybody co-operated. Some people claimed that others were pushing in, so like the previous day, a check was undertaken with everyone displaying their ticket. To my knowledge, 4 people objected. The altercation was difficult (but not violent) for all concerned because we did not share a common natural language, and at least one person became understandably upset. As Starbass has pointed out, he had experienced these difficulties for 2 days already, and like many others it was frustrating, we were all tired and we all desperately wanted a great concert experience. I believe all of the people eventually went to their place in the queue according to their ticket numbers, but I could be wrong. Security were called at one point and they listened to the argument. They advised me that they would like us to resolve it peacefuly, but as far as they could tell, we were one of the most peaceful and friendly queues they had experienced and the method we had devised was (although not foolproof) a very good effort given the GA policy and they were prepared to enforce it if necessary. They had no need to manhandle anyone. Of the four people I know who felt aggrieved, I went to see one of the people who was upset after they had joined the line and they were welcomed by some very supportive people in the queue. The second person I shook hands with before they took their place in the queue. I could not find the third person. The fourth person I met inside after the sound check and I shook hands with him.

Three disabled people then joined the queue and with one assistant each were all allowed in first. All 3 were NPGMC members. I am sure some people did not find me or one of the other guys before the queue formed, and this exposed one of the weaknesses of the system when GA is used.

As everyone saw on each day, no system is foolproof, and inevitably some people (call it selfish, call it eager to enjoy the experience for themselves before others) took advantages of the weaknesses. Once through the outer door you had to collect your envelope. You were split into 3 queues alphabetically to collect. If you were A- E, chances are your queue was long and people in S - Z jumped ahead of you There was nothing they could really do, I guess). You then possibly had a security check, and if you had a bag with many items in, this again meant others jumped ahead of you. You then joined one of 2 queues and these were wider queues, people slipped in at the sides and people who were 25th in queue might find themselves 50th or 100th. The longer the rehearsal / soundcheck (before the NPGMC soundcheck) the more pushing, queue slipping and general frustration increased.

When the call came, the disabled people were then admitted to front row seats with their assistants. General admittance then allowed people through a second door. On at least one occasion, people were searched again, and again some got in before others. On the first night, my wife's bag was searched twice and I had to wait for her to admit her with my laminate as my guest.

On the final night, despite all of this, people still rushed to the front. I shouted several times asking for people not to run. It had little effect. My wife had sat in her chair, but someone leaped over the front row and took the seat I was about to sit in - no front row seat!!! I explained that it was not fair, and at this late hour, he agreed and took a seat immediately behind me and shook my hand. He was a real gentleman for relenting.

As a sidenote, the lady in front of me in the queue did not get a front row centre seat (she came over to chat after the soundcheck) and sat to the side - she had gone to the right centre when I had gone to the left. She decided to stay where she was, but I shared her disappointment. It was therefore wonderful to see her invited on stage by Prince to dance during the concert (as well as the lady who was just behind me in the queue).- you looked great, both of you.

From what I read, everyone had a great concert despite the queueing. I hope everyone got to the aftershow from Saturday night that could make it.

I met lots of really great people over the three days. Everyone without a doubt wanted to enjoy the concert, and I am sure no-one intentionally wanted to spoil it for someone else. In my naievety, I'm pretty sure I got taken adavantage of by a few people in the queue over the 3 days. And if they don't allocate the tickets by seat, this is always going to happen unless a set of rules are agreed. As someone pointed out during the queuing, I did not represent NPGMC (I was not pretending to), and I was not intentionally trying to play god. At the same time, trying to get over 500 people of multiple nationalities and languages to queue is never going to be easy and the Apollo were refusing to allow admittance until we were in a queue.

I decided to go for broke at the end of the concert and get on stage and dance. I'd never been front row before, and I have no plans to be front row again, so I decided to dance next to Rhonda - where few could see me. She gave me a wonderful smile. Next time, I'm quite happy to have a great seat and view from elsewhere like I did the previous 2 nights (all NPGMC tickets are great tickets), because next time it is someone else's turn for the front row. If you end up doing a list as well - good luck.

Pathetic whinging !
What does any of this solve ? What's the point of this thread ?

And James, you dont have to read it either

I got row 3 in the centre, so Im naturally in favour of general admission.

Hi,

This is how we think about the queueing, outside everything went well. Everybody was happy, and if there was someone not on the right spot. We picked them out and put them where they belonged so everybody was happy.

The number thing worked

BUT inside we lost control

we asked the security CAN WE DO THINGS INSIDE
we know the people we know the numbers

And we know the guys who tried 2 get infront of others outside

the security told us everything would be fine

BUT when we got inside the security guards inside never heard about us. And we had 2 shut-up otherwise we had 2 leave the queue inside.

Then the left door opened first before the right door where all the people were standing who had the LOW numbers.

so we lost control,

we asked 4 help inside
if we had the oportunity everything would be great

nothing 2 blame us
nothing 2 blame Prince

BUT blame the security
we had word from the manager that we could let people in by number.

but as soon as we got inside all the nasty stuff happend,

--- www.thedawn.nl ---

langebleu said:

well said that Man !

Nice to see you stage by the way Mr B

i used to be proud to be Dutch...now i don't know for sure...

Oh my.. I hate reading stuff like this. I was lucky enough to goto shows in California where things were well organized. We only allowed the npgmc member + their guest, and one of those people had to be in line at ALL TIMES. Everyone has to enforce no cutting.

It is sad to see the same faces in front row at EVERY show, esp. when they're not even from that city! BUT, I also think if you want to wait for 10 hours, you should get front row. First come first served. This is coming from someone who has been screwed repeatedly by Ticketmaster, and NEVER got front row until some of the shows were General Admission.

And for the people up front not dancing.. too bad. Maybe they enjoy the musical experience differently than you. And if Prince wanted more women up front, he should make them change seats with the guys.. he did that in the US! :p

Hope you all get things figured out.. but unfortunately, a rabid fan has only one thing on their mind.. front row.. with no concern for fellow fans.

anemone said:

Ironic thing is that the view from the front row is terrible, far better off from D or E back.

Well put Nate!!

I was ok with my seat on Thurs row 6 i think and had a great view, my ticket said row 2 or B but it was ok , I was just pleased to be so close to the action!

But do the people who kept monopolising the front row think they are "bigger" fans than the rest ?? A little consideration would go a long way but in the absence of that a numbered system would sort them out!

I'm sure we'll agree that the Show was awesome but the attitude of some of the "front row crew" sucked and was contrary to "Love for oneanother"

By the way I have been watching Prince in concert since 1981 and wonder if that gives me the automatic right to bum rush the front row over someone who paid the same as me, appreciates good music and has only discovered Prince in the last 10 years!

Lets all chill out and if we cant then perhaps let NPGMC sort it out for us

Peace (literally)

Again, a (Prince) concert is NOT a visit to a movie.

Just queue up there. Allocated seats are for movie theatres, not concerts.

BUT queuing is NOT pushing!!!

Cheers,

J

Maybe I missed some points or maybe my english is too bad, but I really didn't get the point of GA:

1) Are only NPGMC members allowed to join the soundcheck or everyone who's first in line ( I hope so otherwise I don't see the point of being a member) ?

2) Isn't the GA system to show up, what time ever, going to the so called WILL-CALL-WINDOW, grab the ordered tix, wrist and laminate by showing ID or Credit Card and then stay in line (members queue) until they open the doors for the soundcheck ?

I'm going to see the Frankfurt show and hell, I wish I'd be already inside...

Cheers,
charly1310

SkletonKee said:

Yea, the same whack stuff happened in Oakland. Really, the only way to control the situation is to assign seats in the NPGMC area or NPGMC has to take control of how people are lining up if it's GA. When you leave it up to the fans, they'll hold places for their 20 other "Prince friends" who don't get off work or had to pick up the kids, blah blah blah. You can hold your spot from 8am, thinking you're #20 and end up #100 by the time all those fools cut in line. It's ridiculous.

And what bugs me is if these same fans (the ones who dress up & all that bullshit) were further back in line & had TONS of people cutting in front of them, they'd be PISSED OFF. Yet, they're doing it every time to everyone else. It's really nauseating. I think they feel like they have a right to the front just because they made a glitter shirt or put some purple shit in their hair...

The only concert I was able to go to was Saturday night due to work and family commitments. In years gone by I would have tried to see all three london shows.
I arrived with my wife at 4.50pm to see a small queue outside the apollo and took about 10 minutes to get in.
We all queued inside for at least an hour which was OK.
Hadn't had to queue for tickets outside in the cold like had done in the past and got let into the main arena area just after 6pm. We ended getting what I consider the worst seats in fact a member who could not get member tickets came upto us and commented on where we were sitting.
Two points
1. I have no need at this time in my life to be queueing for front row tickets have been there and done that.
2. As far as I am concerned I was there for the music I do not need to get on the stage and dance about to show how much I appreciate Prince and his music.

In all even with these seats it was the closest I had sat since the nude tour and I could clearly see everything.

The music and nature of the concert was the best I have ever seen I was content with the soundcheck and the main show not to worry about the aftershow.

If Prince continues in this vain for the rest of his career we will be in for some outstanding shows the change of tempo from acid Jazz to rock to ballad to just playing the guitar in the middle of the stage by himself should inspire all of us.

If his music changes and we feel that it is not for us anymore so be it do not moan and complain that he has put out a crap album or performed a crap concert which we feel could have been better if he had played some more hits. Let the man grow and if we agree we will follow.

I thank Prince for coming to these shores and look forward to his next visit.

Keep the faith !!
Peace !!

Gav said:

What were you doing in the front row on Saturday then?

swanny said:

Obviously Gav needed to check out the front row, so he could tell us not to bother! :Wink:

Nate said:

I was actually ticket number 124 so in no way was at the front of the queue. I WALKED into the arena and noticed that everyone decided to take route A right down the bloody middle.

I then strolled down the left aisle and sat in the front row where I noticed about 200 people chucking themselves into seats like crazy in the middle.

Watched the gig from where I was, f***ed my ears up, had a worse view than any of the other shows, and am now getting grief from someone I don't even bloody know about not offering them my seat.

This place needs a fucking reality check sometimes.

Only joking Gav!

By the way, the queues seemed better at Manchester (half of Europe was not there for a start).

However, there were still signs of queue jumping and seat holding.

Nate said:

Thanks Nate, sorry to rant but I'm sick of abusive message from twats accusing me of "elitism" when their facts are based on pure speculation. I seem to remember several gigs in the past where I've SWAPPED tickets with ones further back as I thought it was unfair that I had front blocks for each night.

I'm sure the 150 peoples names I put on the mailing list for the Cafe de Paris show didn't call me fucking elitist !

I heard that Manchester was an almighty screw up on the queue front - wasn't those French guys again was it ?