(The following message reflects my views only. I am not writing in my capacity as a prince.org staff member.)

Last night Melissa (tackam) informed me that she has decided to leave the .org. While she is not deleting her account, she will no longer be using it either.

Her decision is a very sad thing for me. As many of you know, Melissa is my partner, and the .org is how we met each other. Until she and I solve the problem of living over 2,000 miles apart, the .org is a way that we can interact with each other. Additionally, Melissa has been a member of this community since 1996--that's almost eight years.

Melissa has multiple reasons for leaving. Two of them are, IMHO, worth addressing here.

First, she is dismayed by how some users treat others in a unkind manner and post things that they would not say in person. At least to the extent there has been a noticeable decline in civility here in recent years, I agree. I suspect it may have something to do with the move away from the PPML, where discussion was strictly limited to Prince-related topics, and toward the message-board format currently used by the .org. Also, all posts to the PPML were prescreened by a moderator, whereas the .org is currently "retromoderated"; i.e., things are publicly posted first, and only then can a moderator take action (assuming a mod even reads the post, which often does not happen unless it's reported by a user).

I'm not necessarily sure the old way is better. People seem to prefer the "instant gratification" of a message board instead of waiting for a daily digest via email, and the organization of discussion into forums and threads makes things much more usable. And in my experience, it's apparent that most folks here don't want too much moderation. Yet I see some real downsides to the current format. Perhaps there is evidence of those problems in the considerable number of users who have gotten upset and chosen to leave the .org in an active manner (as opposed to quietly fading away).

Melissa even feels that her departure will be mostly unnoticed, and aside from a few people with whom she communicates outside of the .org, nobody will miss her. I think--and hope--that she is wrong on this issue.

The second reason for her departure is the way some people have treated her relationship with me. As she put it, "the 'most embarrassing thread' thing just drives the last nail in for me." We both know that our relationship is unconventional and strange to many people, and we're not surprised that some have found it rather shocking. But she does not understand why people apparently think she should be embarassed about it, or why multiple reactions have been along the lines of, "Why are you telling us about this?"

(For the record, I myself have not been offended by what .orgers have posted on this topic. And as for "Most Embarassing Thread," embarassing to whom? The reader? It's ambiguous, and in any event, I'm certainly not embarassed.)

So why did we post what we did? I think Melissa has already stated it nicely (see http://www.prince.org/msg/100/60217):

We wanted to let the org know what is going on because we both spend time here and wanted to be open about the situation. That's all.

...

Ok, ok. Look. We have friends here! We know that this relationship is unconventional, and these are the sorts of questions that we've been getting from other people in our lives.

Some of you may think she is overreacting. Regardless, it's sad that a long-time member of the community feels so alienated by others that leaving seems necessary.

With all that said, we've lost someone who added a lot to the .org... intelligent discussion, irreverent comments, a refreshing bluntness that managed to avoid being unkind, and an interesting personality. I feel as if someone has died, and thus, I think it's appropriate that I inverted the colors on my avatar to turn it black.

Cool avvie Mat!

I'm sorry to hear your friend is leaving, I know the feeling.

Hey, matt! First of all, cool new avatar!

Secondly--I'm lucky, because I live in Seattle and I have the girl's email address and a semi-firm commitment from her that the three of us will get together for coffee when you come out in February.

I, for one, regret her departure (although I'd been informed of her intent to make this decision awhile ago), because I always appreciate a strong mind and heart, which she's got! We need more women like that around here.

No, not Mel.

We miss you already, sweetheart.



And a for you, Matt. Miss you too.

INSATIABLE said:

Thanks, Jana. You're very sweet.

FWIW, I'm still here...

I liked the way she said what was on her mind.
She seemed to be a strong person and have a lovely nature about her.

i didn't read the first thread i guess... and i don't think there's anything there to be embarassed about. i wasn't aware of this issue even

Wait a minute...yall posted that thread and were all stickin your mutual chest out with an I dont care stance of what the reactions were going to be? And now miss melissa is dismayed or disappointed how not everyone "got it"? You people SLAY THE FUCK OUTTA ME. All u did was act brave and themn find out you are wishy washy

and the exodus has been by and large happening long before you two got your feelings hurt...but since those matters of why did not effect you, you probably made no notice of it

as for th atmosphere of the negative communication..well that started long ago an nobody did or said anything about it and now that its so endemic of the joint, you cry about it..what kind of people are you? seriously. Fucking get a clue or stop crying in your goddamn beer.

And for the record...I had no problem with yo statement of love evne thogh I clowned..I mean yall go on withcha bad s elves..do what feels righjt and what feels good..I salte yall on that

and for the second point--anything I say to anybody here I would, and will, and have said to their face.

.
[This message was edited Fri Dec 19 16:14:54 PST 2003 by rdhull]

rdhull said:

I know this to be true from firsthand experience on the phone!

This is so sad Melissa and matt it does not matter how you both met what matters is how you both feel. To find love is something special and when you find it grab onto it with both hands and why not shout it out and share with all, i wish you both well .Who cares what others think i did admire you both coming out and telling us how you both felt much respect 2 you both for doing so.

Melissa you do what you have to do, but remember there are some out here that do care, i haven’t spoke to you much, yet the times i have said hello you come across a nice person, maybe one day you may come back, matt you take care off her for us all

I have lurked around the org (Prince community) for many years more years than i can remembers and have only posted in the past two years and i have noticed the change, i also wish people would think a little before the start typing, it has made me sad that people have left some i still talk to on yahoo, some just do not come back, i do miss the old org but times do change and i have to just go with the times i suppose.


You both take care

katt said:

Id give u props mre too but yall came out and now acting lie your ashamed..no t ashamed but disappointed becausde not everyone reveled in your sexual glory..what kind a shit is that? Post about freakness and be proud of it..dont go runnin and quiittin and shit...

I've already missed Melissa, and told her so in an orgnote a little while back. We were never super pals or anything, but I did enjoy her presence, and noticed her absence. She did express some of these feelings about the negativity here.

From my perspective, the org has always had a heavy quotient of negativity. Now that it expands so far beyond just the scope of Prince, the negativity can be directed in a much more personal manner. That's unfortunate, but also a natural byproduct of so many passionate people from so many different walks of life joining together. This place is so dynamic -- constant change is the name of the game. Like I said to Melissa a while back (and how I feel about all of the recent departures), "The org will never be what is was. It will always be what it is." And if it works for you, great, if not, check back in a bit, and it will be a very different place.

Best wishes.

matt there's nothing to be embarassed about in your statement of love. that nomination thread kinda freaked me out a bit when i read it and i already posted over on that thread about the nominations being kind of mean. those cretins laughed at me

i really wish tackam wouldn't take that thread to heart. what can you expect from a guy who's got a bart simpson moon for an avatar? now i know tackam ain't online right now because she left but if you see her tell her not to leave altogether ok?

i mean i'd think it's probably hard to be involved with the ORG at the god level. isn't there tremendous burn-out? dealing with the tangible aspect of the system and also watching us all mindlessly babble on and on, picking fights with each other, dukin' it out. having to be moderators and slap our hands like we're naughty little children. i think i learned my lesson in the p & r forum and by the way i also took the warning about adult content to heart!

what i'm trying to say is instead of quitting totally maybe tackam could be persuaded just to go on hiatus? maybe later she'll consider coming back, if we ask nice enough

rdhull said:

I certainly had noticed the "exodus" problem before. I admit that I was never sure what should be done about it. Put a gun to people's heads and order them not to leave?

Yes, a departure affects me more when it's my partner. I don't think that's surprising at all.

Many other people have complained about the negative atmosphere. And we've got moderation logs to prove that we've tried to do something about it. Is there a better way? Maybe, but I don't know what it is.

XxAxX said:

youre gotta be kidding me..ask nice for her to come back?..she just derided everything she rabble roused for...

matt said:

How about showing the fuck up for a few instead of when u have some oddity to post about such as a new hair-do? Or give your position to someone else who does have a some time to moderate..Look..I aint trying to come down on u for not being here...but how the fuck u gonna NOT be here and come and comlpain because in essence thats what you are doing...sure youre givin th e goodbye thread so meliss can get all these heartfelt accolades and shit while forgetting her initial boldness turn to weakness or dissatisfaction ...but what the hell Matt. You're a fucking lawyer! Use your damn balls. And if that entails putting me or others to task or deleting me or others for example etc then do it..do something..stop being an non entity who only come s around to shoot the nbreeze and wojnder "what is going on..der George"..
[This message was edited Fri Dec 19 16:54:04 PST 2003 by rdhull]

rdhull said:

"Sexual glory"? Melissa and I have a broad, deep relationship. We're polyamorous, not swingers. In fact, the relationship we have is pretty much like a "normal" relationship, except that neither of us asserts any sort of exclusive rights over the other, and she currently has a similar relationship with another person. But for whatever reason, people can't see past the poly aspect and assume that it's just a sex thing.

Moderation style can have a tangible impact on the boards; I've seen it done elsewhere. I don't know what the magic formula is for the org--I think it might be to get rid of the masterminds and not let them back...but the org is a little like New York City when it comes to Prince sites. It's the biggest AND the baddest. It's taken me quite a while myself to properly deal around here...and there ARE good people here, and I keep them close. The rest...eh...screw 'em.

Mel!ssa...like Ian, I've decided to keep her in my life. No worries.

matt said:

You know what I meant...read what I said orignally about props to you for doing what u feel etc

XxAxX said:

I should clarify that Melissa is not a moderator, so mod-burnout isn't a cause of her departure. As for asking her to come back, she already knows that I wish she wouldn't leave--and I've admitted to her that's a selfish desire on my part. But ultimately, it's her decision and I'm going to respect that.

Hmmm. I have mixed feelings about this thread.

Although some of it sounds harsh, I'm with Rd on this...

And it's the internet...if someone says shit about me I just tell them to fuck off. It's not like I'm losing a friend or something. I think she should just lighten up a bit and learn to say fuck it instead of having you post this thread Matt.

teller said:

No it isnt the BADDEST..the baddest is amp and they would chew your skeleton ass up in one crunch

rdhull said:

AMP blows.

But maybe they are the "baddest." No moderation there, right?

rdhull said:

rd ya big boobie. i know you were trying to just be funny and clowning around with the nomination thread (btw you're June7??) but even though what you say is true about the negativity in here you're pointing that finger at the wrong folx.

the negativity isn't caused by the ORG, i do believe it's caused by the world's situation. the ORG is a kind of microcosm of the world, not a macrocosm of our souls. and right now i know i'm stressed about political issues and social issues. the government's agenda. that overflows into here and when the issues come up i get heated at times.

but i don't think the ORG is an 'evil' place. i think the ORG's changed since the new format, but the reason imo is because the new format allows new topics to be created by members more or less at whim. the old system had a 'pre-screening' by the ORG gods. the digest consisted of send-in tidbits. so now we have tons of threads, it's all interesting but it's totally impossible to read them all... and still have a *real* life

anyway if there's anything 'wrong' with the ORG i just think we members tend to use it as a sounding board about anything from underwear to race and it gets chaotic like being in a room consisting of international personality with everyone talking all at once.

that's my take on the reason why and how the ORG has changed. but i see it more as evolving and this is a phase, not that the ORG is a 'negative' place.

although, if i were prince i might not like it here so much because people always lampoon him

CarrieLee said:

she didnt like her nomination

enuff to leave.. Im dyin

CarrieLee said:

For the record, she didn't ask me to post this thread. I don't know whether she will ever read it. I did ask her for consent to me posting about her departure because I respect her privacy. But this thread is basically about my thoughts on her departure.

teller said:

Nope. That's why I refer people to AMP if they want an unmoderated forum.

XxAxX said:

RD!!! First Freespirit thinks you're me, now XxAxX thinks you're June7!!!
[This message was edited Fri Dec 19 16:47:05 PST 2003 by AnotherLoverToo]

XxAxX said:

I agree with partly

but the org is a CONTINUUM...it will never be like v1..that merged into v2..which merged into the first 2 months of newness and craziness...then merged into things getting settled...then my big mouf came...then the surge with more new ones but alliances...then the politics...then the race...then the focus on p music...etc...all to the tune of the ever changing moods and time as well as tides...it is not stagnanat and no othe r wensite is either...weve lost a lot of folks during th e v2 and we will lose a lot more and some soon and we will gain mor eas well...it is an ever evolving phenomena these websites...just as if it were th e real world becaue their are real people behind thes crazy assed avatars