Rest in peace Stan.

I just realized this. I would say that in terms of length, probably no other single person's creativity has given me more joy than Stan Lee's(with the co creators of the Marvel universe, AND DC Comics). Since at least 1973, Stan's work has been a part of my life. From Superhero action figures(as a kid, a serious fanatic), to cartoons, to comic books, to the recent Marvel Movies, they've all been things that at one point or another have given me happiness.


I was listening to this interview that Stan gave, where he was basically talking about how his vision for Marvel was to be all inclusive. And me being black, i respect the hell out of that. As a black child growing up, characters like the Black Panther and especially(for me) The Falcon, were characters that gave a lot of us black kids a sense of identity. Marvel gave a lot of us something that we could relate to...


Anyway, Stan, It's been a fun ride...

Wow, I just read it just now
What an amazing life this man had!

JoeyC said:

Rest in peace Stan.

I just realized this. I would say that in terms of length, probably no other single person's creativity has given me more joy than Stan Lee's(with the co creators of the Marvel universe, AND DC Comics). Since at least 1973, Stan's work has been a part of my life. From Superhero action figures(as a kid, a serious fanatic), to cartoons, to comic books, to the recent Marvel Movies, they've all been things that at one point or another have given me happiness.


I was listening to this interview that Stan gave, where he was basically talking about how his vision for Marvel was to be all inclusive. And me being black, i respect the hell out of that. As a black child growing up, characters like the Black Panther and especially(for me) The Falcon, were characters that gave a lot of us black kids a sense of identity. Marvel gave a lot of us something that we could relate to...


Anyway, Stan, It's been a fun ride...

This essay here is pretty interesting, too. You might like it.

https://www.esquire.com/e...d0nPbW5Wiw

EmmaMcG said:

peedub said:

CO-invented.

Well aren't you pedantic.

no, just trying to correct the course of everybody's wrong thinking. i'd suggest 'co-creator' is even overly generous. the man wrote dialog over the fully formed stories of 2 of the greatest comics creators in history. to falsely assign credit to lee is to descredit those who actually did the work. they're dead, too; and you don't even know their names.

there's plenty of documentation on the creation of all of the stories and characters that are associated with stan lee. check out 'marvel comics: the untold story'. or 'men of tomorrow'. or 'stan lee and the rise and fall of the american comic book'. or 'kirby: king of comics'. or any one of many interviews, articles, essays or whatever online. the comics community knows what's what. the man is pretty much unanimously regarded as not deserving the credit that has been heaped upon him....credit which he spent his life fostering the illusion of its deservedness.

stan lee did many things to push comics and those characters to the forefront of modern american entertainment. but create them, he did not. stan lee's greatest creation was....stan lee.

this article at slate sum...ty well...

[Edited 11/14/18 7:44am]

[Edited 11/14/18 8:39am]

Stan "The Man" Lee and Jack "The King" Kirby were creative forces of nature and remain my favorite superhero duo.

[Edited 11/14/18 7:59am]

peedub said:

EmmaMcG said:

peedub said: Well aren't you pedantic.

no, just trying to correct the course of everybody's wrong thinking. i'd suggest 'co-creator' is even overly generous. the man wrote dialog over the fully formed stories of 2 of the greatest comics creators in history. to falsely assign credit to lee is to descredit those who actually did the work. they're dead, too; and you don't even know their names.

there's plenty of documentation on the creation of all of the stories and characters that are associated with stan lee. check out 'marvel comics: the untold story'. or 'men of tomorrow'. or 'stan lee and the rise and fall of the american comic book'. or 'kirby: king of comics'. or any one of many interviews, articles, essays or whatever online. the comics community knows what's what. the man is pretty much unanimously regarded as not deserving the credit that has been heaped upon him....credit which he spent his life fostering the illusion of its deservedness.

stan lee did many things to push comics and those characters to the forefront of modern american entertainment. but create them, he did not. stan lee's greatest creation was....stan lee.

[Edited 11/14/18 7:44am]

You are right but I guess that most participants on this thread already know all this and anybody who is into Marvel Comics definitely knows Steve Ditko and Jack Kirby, and has probably heard or read about how they were treated by Stan Lee.

However, Mr. Lee is dead now and I didn´t want to be disrespectful by going into the details of who created what and when. This does not mean that I or any of the others here on this thread wanted to disrespect or ignore the legacy of Mr.Ditko and Kirby.

-

As far as I know, Bob Kane was even worse when it comes to not giving proper credit to his colleagues. And Joe Siegel and Jerry Schuster are probably the most tragic figures in comic book history but I digress.

There´s a time and place for such discussions and you are making some very valid points but in my opinion one day after Mr.Lee´s death is not exactly the best time to discuss whether he did or didn´t give credit where credit is due.

When Prince passed away we did not have people here talking about him stealing Do Me Baby from Andre Cymone.....that happened much later.

-

But thanks a lot for mentioning those documentaries in your post. I will definitely watch them real soon. Very much appreciated !

KoolEaze said:

peedub said:

no, just trying to correct the course of everybody's wrong thinking. i'd suggest 'co-creator' is even overly generous. the man wrote dialog over the fully formed stories of 2 of the greatest comics creators in history. to falsely assign credit to lee is to descredit those who actually did the work. they're dead, too; and you don't even know their names.

there's plenty of documentation on the creation of all of the stories and characters that are associated with stan lee. check out 'marvel comics: the untold story'. or 'men of tomorrow'. or 'stan lee and the rise and fall of the american comic book'. or 'kirby: king of comics'. or any one of many interviews, articles, essays or whatever online. the comics community knows what's what. the man is pretty much unanimously regarded as not deserving the credit that has been heaped upon him....credit which he spent his life fostering the illusion of its deservedness.

stan lee did many things to push comics and those characters to the forefront of modern american entertainment. but create them, he did not. stan lee's greatest creation was....stan lee.

[Edited 11/14/18 7:44am]

You are right but I guess that most participants on this thread already know all this and anybody who is into Marvel Comics definitely knows Steve Ditko and Jack Kirby, and has probably heard or read about how they were treated by Stan Lee.

However, Mr. Lee is dead now and I didn´t want to be disrespectful by going into the details of who created what and when. This does not mean that I or any of the others here on this thread wanted to disrespect or ignore the legacy of Mr.Ditko and Kirby.

-

As far as I know, Bob Kane was even worse when it comes to not giving proper credit to his colleagues. And Joe Siegel and Jerry Schuster are probably the most tragic figures in comic book history but I digress.

There´s a time and place for such discussions and you are making some very valid points but in my opinion one day after Mr.Lee´s death is not exactly the best time to discuss whether he did or didn´t give credit where credit is due.

When Prince passed away we did not have people here talking about him stealing Do Me Baby from Andre Cymone.....that happened much later.

-

But thanks a lot for mentioning those documentaries in your post. I will definitely watch them real soon. Very much appreciated !

the truth is the truth. it is neither disrespectful or mean. i'm just pointing out inaccurate information that's being posted in this thread. ask the families of jack kirby and steve ditko if the proliferation of those types of inaccuracies are of no consequence.

the titles i mentioned in quotes in my above post are of books, not documentaries. you're welcome! i hope you read and enjoy them. they are full of a lot of information.

peedub said:

KoolEaze said:

You are right but I guess that most participants on this thread already know all this and anybody who is into Marvel Comics definitely knows Steve Ditko and Jack Kirby, and has probably heard or read about how they were treated by Stan Lee.

However, Mr. Lee is dead now and I didn´t want to be disrespectful by going into the details of who created what and when. This does not mean that I or any of the others here on this thread wanted to disrespect or ignore the legacy of Mr.Ditko and Kirby.

-

As far as I know, Bob Kane was even worse when it comes to not giving proper credit to his colleagues. And Joe Siegel and Jerry Schuster are probably the most tragic figures in comic book history but I digress.

There´s a time and place for such discussions and you are making some very valid points but in my opinion one day after Mr.Lee´s death is not exactly the best time to discuss whether he did or didn´t give credit where credit is due.

When Prince passed away we did not have people here talking about him stealing Do Me Baby from Andre Cymone.....that happened much later.

-

But thanks a lot for mentioning those documentaries in your post. I will definitely watch them real soon. Very much appreciated !

the truth is the truth. it is neither disrespectful or mean. i'm just pointing out inaccurate information that's being posted in this thread. ask the families of jack kirby and steve ditko if the proliferation of those types of inaccuracies are of no consequence.

the titles i mentioned in quotes in my above post are of books, not documentaries. you're welcome! i hope you read and enjoy them. they are full of a lot of information.

Thanks !

And you´re right about the Ditko and Kirby families...must be very bitter for them.

But I still appreciate Stan Lee for the good things he did.

While mainstream media is known for saying "Stan Lee created..." and often leave out the co-creators, comics fans know different and movie fans should as well. Full credit is given in every comic book and at the start of every movie. Here's a few examples from some recent comic books:

You'll find the same thing in the opening credits to any of the Marvel movies, full credit to all co-creators is always given.

[Edited 11/14/18 9:49am]

djThunderfunk said:

While mainstream media is known for saying "Stan Lee created..." and often leave out the co-creators, comics fans know different and movie fans should as well. Full credit is given in every comic book and at the start of every movie. Here's a few examples from some recent comic books:

You'll find the same thing in the opening credits to any of the Marvel movies, full credit to all co-creators is always given.

[Edited 11/14/18 9:49am]

indeed. but that is a (relatively) very recent development implemented only after much litigation and scrutiny. it still doesn't, in my estimation, accurately define who was responsible for what. at this point in history, marvel has a very real interest in aligning itself on the stan lee side of the aisle.

anyhow...the histories and articles have been written, the interviews transcribed. marvel can credit whoever they'd like. the bottom line is stan lee, the legendary creator of 'stripperella' and 'ravage 2099' has passed away. excelsior!

[Edited 11/14/18 10:15am]

peedub said:

djThunderfunk said:

While mainstream media is known for saying "Stan Lee created..." and often leave out the co-creators, comics fans know different and movie fans should as well. Full credit is given in every comic book and at the start of every movie. Here's a few examples from some recent comic books:

You'll find the same thing in the opening credits to any of the Marvel movies, full credit to all co-creators is always given.

[Edited 11/14/18 9:49am]

indeed. but that is a (relatively) very recent development implemented only after much litigation and scrutiny. it still doesn't, in my estimation, accurately define who was responsible for what. at this point in history, marvel has a very real interest in aligning itself on the stan lee side of the aisle.

anyhow...the histories and articles have been written, the interviews transcribed. marvel can credit whoever they'd like. the bottom line is stan lee, the legendary creator of 'stripperella' and 'ravage 2099' has passed away. excelsior!

[Edited 11/14/18 10:15am]

Hey man, don't diss Stripperella!

peedub said:

Just realized there was a sticky post about this.

I'm a big fan of Marvel. Spider-man really inspired me as a kid as a good superhero character should.

RIP Stan Lee your work and imagination and storytelling are all much appreciated.

Lianachan said:

peedub said:

no, just trying to correct the course of everybody's wrong thinking.

I cant speak for everybody, although I’m sure I’m not alone, but in my case it wasn’t “wrong thinking”, it was convenient short-hand. Like how I don’t usually bother correcting people when they refer to “Vikings”.

i don't know anything about vikings, so i don't talk about them. i also don't know what people know, i know what they say.

because an old man who spent his life shilling for corporate america in order to propogate his own brand in order to amass wealth died doesn't mean that the iconic contributions to an art form from other men should be credited to him.

people have affection for this guy...i get it. they oughtta look into his history and the history of those who collaborated with him before they throw around words like 'creator'. things might read a little different.

[Edited 11/15/18 7:36am]

peedub said:

Lianachan said:

peedub said: I cant speak for everybody, although I’m sure I’m not alone, but in my case it wasn’t “wrong thinking”, it was convenient short-hand. Like how I don’t usually bother correcting people when they refer to “Vikings”.

i don't know anything about vikings, so i don't talk about them. i also don't know what people know, i know what they say.

because an old man who spent his life shilling for corporate america in order to propogate his own brand in order to amass wealth died doesn't mean that the iconic contributions to an art form from other men should be credited to him.

people have affection for this guy...i get it. they oughtta look into his history and the history of those who collaborated with him before they throw around words like 'creator'. things might read a little different.

[Edited 11/15/18 7:36am]

Are you happy with the term "co-creator" or do you think he doesn't even deserve that?

djThunderfunk said:

peedub said:

i don't know anything about vikings, so i don't talk about them. i also don't know what people know, i know what they say.

because an old man who spent his life shilling for corporate america in order to propogate his own brand in order to amass wealth died doesn't mean that the iconic contributions to an art form from other men should be credited to him.

people have affection for this guy...i get it. they oughtta look into his history and the history of those who collaborated with him before they throw around words like 'creator'. things might read a little different.

[Edited 11/15/18 7:36am]

Are you happy with the term "co-creator" or do you think he doesn't even deserve that?

it's my opinion that 'co-creator' is overly generous. if executive vice president in charge of moving big stuff long distances (stan lee) says 'hey, we need something to make this work' and staff engineers (jack kirby and steve ditko) invent the wheel, did stan lee co-create modern transportation?

peedub said:

djThunderfunk said:

Are you happy with the term "co-creator" or do you think he doesn't even deserve that?

it's my opinion that 'co-creator' is overly generous. if executive vice president in charge of moving big stuff long distances (stan lee) says 'hey, we need something to make this work' and staff engineers (jack kirby and steve ditko) invent the wheel, did stan lee co-create modern transportation?

I must disagree. It's a visual medium, so, I appreciate the art (and the artistic creators) more than writing but even the artists that co-created these characters concede that Stan co-created them and most of them started with Stan's ideas.

djThunderfunk said:

peedub said:

it's my opinion that 'co-creator' is overly generous. if executive vice president in charge of moving big stuff long distances (stan lee) says 'hey, we need something to make this work' and staff engineers (jack kirby and steve ditko) invent the wheel, did stan lee co-create modern transportation?

I must disagree. It's a visual medium, so, I appreciate the art (and the artistic creators) more than writing but even the artists that co-created these characters concede that Stan co-created them and most of them started with Stan's ideas.

that's fine. we can agree to disagree. ideas are ideas. creations are creations. ideas aren't creations. ideas are vague and intangible and not quantifiable. people who have ideas aren't creators. 'let's make a spider themed guy' does not a spider-man make. i tend to lean towards the track records of the creators involved over the guy who rubber stamped his name over EVERYTHING for 50 years.

Another Stan Lee thread ripped apart by peedub. Excelsior!

peedub said:

djThunderfunk said:

I must disagree. It's a visual medium, so, I appreciate the art (and the artistic creators) more than writing but even the artists that co-created these characters concede that Stan co-created them and most of them started with Stan's ideas.

that's fine. we can agree to disagree. ideas are ideas. creations are creations. ideas aren't creations. ideas are vague and intangible and not quantifiable. people who have ideas aren't creators. 'let's make a spider themed guy' does not a spider-man make. i tend to lean towards the track records of the creators involved over the guy who rubber stamped his name over EVERYTHING for 50 years.

From what I've heard from his co-creators, you give him less credit than they do, but ok, we can disagree.

djThunderfunk said:

peedub said:

that's fine. we can agree to disagree. ideas are ideas. creations are creations. ideas aren't creations. ideas are vague and intangible and not quantifiable. people who have ideas aren't creators. 'let's make a spider themed guy' does not a spider-man make. i tend to lean towards the track records of the creators involved over the guy who rubber stamped his name over EVERYTHING for 50 years.

From what I've heard from his co-creators, you give him less credit than they do, but ok, we can disagree.

i'll refer you to page 6 of an interview with jack kirby, as conducted by gary groth for 'the comics journal' in 1990.

the whole interview is a worthwhile read, as are the multitude of comments in the comments section. there's a lot of back and forth from some reputable comics scholars, and a lot of conflicting information discussed.

there is no smoking gun. you kind of just have to read as much as you can about it all and make up your own mind.

sexton said:

Another Stan Lee thread ripped apart by peedub. Excelsior!

the thread isn't titled 'sing the praises of stan lee and tell us how he shaped your character'. he was a complicated figure, often a villain, in the comics community and the discussion of creators' rights. i don't see why folks who will be sad cuz his cameos will no longer be a regular part of their lives shouldn't be exposed to that.

Bill Maher goes full stupid:

https://www.huffingtonpos...2bd58a0b87

2freaky4church1 said:

Bill Maher goes full stupid:

https://www.huffingtonpos...2bd58a0b87

What else is new

2freaky4church1 said:

Bill Maher goes full stupid:

https://www.huffingtonpos...2bd58a0b87

Bill is just being a devils advocate here and honestly that really needed to be said.

I admire Stan Lee's work but some people just go too far to idolize him to the point where it makes everyone uncomfortable. We live in a culture where educated adults argue over Marvel vs DC as if their lives depend on it....again I'm a big Marvel fan but come on.

Ole Stan's still causing controversy after 95 years...

happinessinitsuncutform said:

2freaky4church1 said:

Bill Maher goes full stupid:

https://www.huffingtonpos...2bd58a0b87

Bill is just being a devils advocate here and honestly that really needed to be said.

I admire Stan Lee's work but some people just go too far to idolize him to the point where it makes everyone uncomfortable. We live in a culture where educated adults argue over Marvel vs DC as if their lives depend on it....again I'm a big Marvel fan but come on.

No

2freaky4church1 said:

Bill Maher goes full stupid:

https://www.huffingtonpos...2bd58a0b87

“I don’t think it’s a huge stretch to suggest that Donald Trump could only get elected in a country that thinks comic books are important.”

Stan Lee is the reason why Trump was elected??