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Reply #30 posted 07/30/15 11:50am

babynoz

JustErin said:

Only males that are trying to take over a pride kill their competitors offspring. Cecil did not go around killing any other pride's offspring. He was in an established healthy pride - that is the male's goal. Many young male lions chum together to survive but others are able to form a coaliton with a pride leader. In Cecil's case his bother lived with them, with Cecil in charge the brother did not kill any cubs.

Yes, the male does protect the pride. Cecil's offspring were not in any harm as long as he was around and healthy (which he was). His role was to procreate and fend off rivals, protecting his pride to ensure his genes carry on.

Now that Cecil is gone, his brother will take over and yes, will likely kill all of Cecil's cubs. This triggers the females to go into heat and he can now produce his own offspring. Lioness's have been known to (on rare occasions) attempt to hide their offspring to avoid their killing by the new king but chances are the young cubs will be killed.

This behavior and infanticide is not exclusive to lions.



I had thought that this was common knowlege but I guess not. Many animals have this practice including ordinary pussy cats because tom cats will kill kittens they did not father.

Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise.
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Reply #31 posted 07/30/15 12:37pm

RodeoSchro

babynoz said:

JustErin said:

Only males that are trying to take over a pride kill their competitors offspring. Cecil did not go around killing any other pride's offspring. He was in an established healthy pride - that is the male's goal. Many young male lions chum together to survive but others are able to form a coaliton with a pride leader. In Cecil's case his bother lived with them, with Cecil in charge the brother did not kill any cubs.

Yes, the male does protect the pride. Cecil's offspring were not in any harm as long as he was around and healthy (which he was). His role was to procreate and fend off rivals, protecting his pride to ensure his genes carry on.

Now that Cecil is gone, his brother will take over and yes, will likely kill all of Cecil's cubs. This triggers the females to go into heat and he can now produce his own offspring. Lioness's have been known to (on rare occasions) attempt to hide their offspring to avoid their killing by the new king but chances are the young cubs will be killed.

This behavior and infanticide is not exclusive to lions.



I had thought that this was common knowlege but I guess not. Many animals have this practice including ordinary pussy cats because tom cats will kill kittens they did not father.


Sounds like a feline thing. Which makes me even happier I'm a dog person!

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Reply #32 posted 07/30/15 12:59pm

JustErin

avatar

babynoz said:

JustErin said:

Only males that are trying to take over a pride kill their competitors offspring. Cecil did not go around killing any other pride's offspring. He was in an established healthy pride - that is the male's goal. Many young male lions chum together to survive but others are able to form a coaliton with a pride leader. In Cecil's case his bother lived with them, with Cecil in charge the brother did not kill any cubs.

Yes, the male does protect the pride. Cecil's offspring were not in any harm as long as he was around and healthy (which he was). His role was to procreate and fend off rivals, protecting his pride to ensure his genes carry on.

Now that Cecil is gone, his brother will take over and yes, will likely kill all of Cecil's cubs. This triggers the females to go into heat and he can now produce his own offspring. Lioness's have been known to (on rare occasions) attempt to hide their offspring to avoid their killing by the new king but chances are the young cubs will be killed.

This behavior and infanticide is not exclusive to lions.



I had thought that this was common knowlege but I guess not. Many animals have this practice including ordinary pussy cats because tom cats will kill kittens they did not father.


I thought it was pretty well known that many primates and dolphins do this as well. shrug

Honestly, I am a little shocked at just how ignorant many people seem to be about animals in general and I'm especially taken aback by the fact that so many people just do not know about the plight that wildlife face in terms of populations very quickly disappearing.

Hopefully this situation will make more people aware, which could lead to more action.

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Reply #33 posted 07/30/15 1:54pm

babynoz

JustErin said:

babynoz said:



I had thought that this was common knowlege but I guess not. Many animals have this practice including ordinary pussy cats because tom cats will kill kittens they did not father.


I thought it was pretty well known that many primates and dolphins do this as well. shrug

Honestly, I am a little shocked at just how ignorant many people seem to be about animals in general and I'm especially taken aback by the fact that so many people just do not know about the plight that wildlife face in terms of populations very quickly disappearing.

Hopefully this situation will make more people aware, which could lead to more action.



I'm surprised too because even as a kid I watched a lot of nature and animal shows, especially anything about any kind of cat because I'm a cat lover. I had about nine of them when I was in 6th grade. nod

But like you said, primates, dolphins, etc have this behavior too.

I recall several years ago when I was hooked on Meerkat Manor....it was a very compelling show and I learned so much.

One of my friends always jokes that she'd rather watch the animals than the human dumbassery that passes for entertainment these days. lol

Hopefully they will outlaw trophy hunting and similar barbaric treatment of animals.




Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise.
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Reply #34 posted 07/30/15 2:35pm

morningsong

Someone else's post from another location. Maybe it'll make you smile.

#CecilTheLion ‪unnecessary death inspired me. There are lots of ways to enjoy our planet’s wildlife, but there’s no need to bring home a trophy.

Trust me, the memories of up-close animals encounters will be as vivid as the day you had them for the rest of your life. And if you need something to bring home (or put up on social media for bragging rights) “shoot” as many animals as you want – WITH A CAMERA. To give you a little inspiration, we rounded up the best up-close animal encounters where you can capture plenty of braggable photogenic moments.

Read more: http://luxeadventuretraveler.com/best-up-close-animal-encounters/



The giraffe made me giggle.




neutral Getting these links to cooperate is a pain.



[Edited 7/30/15 14:41pm]

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Reply #35 posted 07/30/15 3:21pm

JoeTyler

Graycap23 said:

aid $55,000 to go lion hunting in Africa ends up killing the country's most famous lion, Cecil. Now he's hiding, facing death threats & had to close his business but says he did nothing illegal & that it was his guides’ fault. What do you think?!

I say fuck him

he looks like vicious scum, the face of a nasty asshole

tinkerbell
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Reply #36 posted 07/31/15 4:40pm

morningsong

TRAVIS THRELKEL was standing on the roof of a building on Fifth Avenue and 27th Street looking uptown at his canvas. It’s hard to miss: It’s the Empire State Building, and on Saturday evening he and his collaborator, the filmmaker and photographer Louie Psihoyos, will project digital light images of endangered species onto the building in an art event meant to draw attention to the creatures’ plight and possibly provide footage for a coming documentary. Although the men refer to the event as a “weapon of mass instruction,” Mr. Threlkel explained: “We’re going to try to create something beautiful. Not bum people out.” He added later: “Hopefully, this is one big domino. If we can tip it, it would be great.”

On Saturday, using 40 stacked, 20,000-lumen projectors on the roof of a building on West 31st Street, Mr. Threlkel and Mr. Psihoyos, director of the Oscar-winning documentary “The Cove,” will be illuminating the night from 9 p.m. to 12 a.m. with a looping reel showing what Mr. Psihoyos calls a “Noah’s ark” of animals. A snow leopard, a golden lion tamarin and manta rays, along with snakes, birds and various mammals and sea creatures will be projected onto a space 375 feet tall and 186 feet wide covering 33 floors of the southern face of the Empire State Building — and beyond, thanks to cellphones and Internet connections.

Photo
The kaiser spotted newt, which is endangered in Iran.CreditJoel Sartore

For years the landmark Empire State Building has been drawing the city’s attention with changes to the lighting scheme on its spire, and the displays have been growing more adventurous. In 2014, in honor of the retiring Yankee Derek Jeter, the building put his number, 2, up in lights at the base of the antenna. And this spring, to note the Whitney Museum of American Art’s move downtown, it interpreted famous paintings, like Warhol’s “Flowers,” with a light show running from the 72nd floor up. But actual moving images have never been displayed on the building and never with the clarity of 5K resolution.

Four years ago, Mr. Psihoyos’s Oceanic Preservation Societyhired Mr. Threlkel’s San Francisco company, Obscura Digital, to put on elaborate light shows to help draw attention to the alarming rate at which species are dying out in what Mr. Psihoyos contends is Earth’s sixth mass extinction. The men began discussing “the most dramatic thing we could do to get the world to know about what we’re losing,” Mr. Psihoyos said. They wanted to use the photography of Mr. Psihoyos’s colleagues at National Geographic, incorporate a musical element and project the images on a newsworthy facade.

The project is coming to fruition at the end of a week when wild animals have been prominent in the news, among them endangered elephants, whose plight was emphasized in a speech President Obama gave in Kenya announcing restrictions on the sale of African elephant ivory, and Cecil the lion, a tagged animal lured from a wildlife preserve in Zimbabwe, shot by an American hunter with a crossbow, then tracked and ultimately killed.

The Empire State Building was an obvious choice for the project, not only because of its high-profile global status but also because, after a refurbishing in 2009, it became known as one of the most sustainable buildings in New York.

Photo
A banded palm civet from the Cincinnati Zoo, the last of its kind in a North American zoo. CreditJoel Sartore

“The concept of incorporating art into the urban fabric and making a social statement is wonderful,” said Anthony E. Malkin, chairman and chief executive of Empire State Realty Trust, which owns and operates the building. In 2011, the top of the skyscraper was illuminated in red in recognition of the dolphin slaughter that was the focus of “The Cove.”

Mr. Malkin called Mr. Psihoyos “a fellow traveler in trying to make our time on this earth more certain for a longer period of time.”

But getting the City of New York to “buy in,” as Mr. Psihoyos put it, was more difficult. The city has strict laws regarding the projection of images on buildings, and Mr. Psihoyos’s efforts to get approval were frustrated for three years until the television producer Norman Lear, supportive of liberal causes, stepped in to assist, using his connections to Mayor Bill de Blasio’s office.

Mr. Psihoyos and Mr. Threlkel finally got the green light with just four weeks to put together the production. Over the previous three years, they had scouted the city for sites and put dozens of smaller, guerrilla-style street projections on billboards and institutions, including the Guggenheim Museum, some with approval and others not. The biggest so far was at the United Nations last year. The events are a part of Mr. Psihoyos’ next documentary, “Racing Extinction,” which is to have a theatrical release in the fall and then be shown on Discovery in December.

Photo
A five-month-old mandrill in Equatorial Guinea.CreditJoel Sartore

“I’m a scale person — that’s what Louie likes about me,” Mr. Threlkel said, as he sized up the Empire State Building and the skyline from the 27th Street roof. “It’s like the Guggenheim. That’s big, right? No, man. We did that from the back of a car with one projector on it. This one, I’ve got 40 giant cannons. And I wish I had more.”

Mr. Threlkel is primarily concerned that the city’s ambient light could wash out his images.

“There’s a bit of voodoo involved,” he said. “You got to cast some spells. There are so many moving pieces that could go wrong.” During the United Nations display, some images were out of sync, but he said the problems were hard to notice and quickly fixed.

Mr. Threlkel, who designed the euphoric lighting for the Grateful Dead’s recent farewell concert, excitedly described plans for a cascade of animal images, some moving, including a sequence involving human hands that will morph into a kinetic blooming, ending with a representation of Mother Earth looking “not angry, but powerful.” There are moments that will be “psychedelic,” he said.

Photo
Koalas. According to racingextinction.com, only 100,000 remain. CreditJoel Sartore

“We’re using icons to help people talk about this virally,” Mr. Threlkel explained. He was particularly enthusiastic about a projection of a giant ape, not unlike King Kong, that will appear to climb the building up to the 71st floor and set off the top spiral lights, which will be in sync with the images throughout the performance. Two (real) helicopters will also circle the building. Mr. Threlkel alluded to some additional projections that may be seen on the skyline on Saturday. He is eyeing one building in particular.

The production’s costs total more than $1 million so far and are being covered in part by the philanthropic foundation created by the Hong Kong billionaire Li Ka-shing, said Mr. Psihoyos, who added that he would have to make up a large deficit. Another benefactor, Paul Allen, is financing a social action campaign for “Racing Extinction” through Vulcan Productions.

Still to be worked out is the release of a musical component. J. Ralph, a composer who worked on “The Cove,” has collaborated with the singer Sia on “One Candle,” and with the musician Antony Hegarty on “Manta Ray”; both songs are intended for the film and will get a sneak preview at a party on Saturday night on the 27th Street roof, where Mr. Threlkel and Mr. Psihoyos will be joined by 400 invited guests.

The Sia song will be “an anthem for our film and the movement to save species,” Mr. Psihoyos said, referring to “Racing Extinction.” “You can’t light a bigger candle than the Empire State Building.” The title is inspired by an aphorism embraced by the film: “It’s better to light one candle than to curse the darkness.” They hope to stream the production live on the Internet, but details were unresolved at press time. Updates will be at racingextinction.com.

The images on Saturday night should be clear to anyone within 20 blocks downtown of the Empire State Building. Below 14th Street, the images will be visible but not as discernible.

But Mr. Psihoyos said he was counting on extending the show’s reach well beyond downtown. “The whole planet could be on the same page for once; anybody with a cellphone or computer would know about it,” he said. “To create a tipping point, you probably need 10 percent of the population. With the film and this event, we are trying to reach that number. If you hit that number, then you have a chance of moving the needle.”

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Reply #37 posted 07/31/15 6:20pm

luv4u

Moderator

avatar

moderator

What a complete dipshit! mad See article below.

Oh, Good. Ted Nugent Has Weighed in on the Lion Thing.



http://www.esquire.com/ne...book-post/

canada

Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture!
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Reply #38 posted 07/31/15 6:24pm

luv4u

Moderator

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moderator


Zimbabwe wants Walter Palmer extradited in killing of Cecil the lion

http://www.cbc.ca/news/wo...-1.3174982

woot!

canada

Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture!
REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince
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Reply #39 posted 07/31/15 8:58pm

luv4u

Moderator

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moderator

canada

Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture!
REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince
"I kind of wish there was a reason for Prince to make the site crash more" ~~ Ben
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Reply #40 posted 08/01/15 5:14am

Hamad

avatar

luv4u said:


Zimbabwe wants Walter Palmer extradited in killing of Cecil the lion

http://www.cbc.ca/news/wo...-1.3174982

woot!

Hope they get his privileged ass.

But, I wonder how will the US embassies in Africa will handle this if/when he seeks their custody (which is likely what will happen anyway). He's a rich guy with influences it seem, I'm pretty sure he will weasel his way out of this.

Every saint has a past, and every sinner has a future...

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Reply #41 posted 08/01/15 7:57am

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

I think it is sick that people are making death threats. And going after him an lying about him. And I do not support him being extradited either.


I do not like the idea of killing something you are not going to eat... but if the country allows a hunt then they allow the hunt. What was illegal? That it was lured out? Okay that was messed up. But is that really what this is all about?


NOPE: this is just over reacting and seems to be more of a distraction of other actually important national events.



now they want to pull Trump into this by using the photo of his son with the elephant.

"Keep on shilling for Big Pharm!"
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Reply #42 posted 08/01/15 8:35am

maplenpg

OnlyNDaUsa said:

I think it is sick that people are making death threats. And going after him an lying about him. And I do not support him being extradited either.


I do not like the idea of killing something you are not going to eat... but if the country allows a hunt then they allow the hunt. What was illegal? That it was lured out? Okay that was messed up. But is that really what this is all about?


NOPE: this is just over reacting and seems to be more of a distraction of other actually important national events.



now they want to pull Trump into this by using the photo of his son with the elephant.

That's (in bold) exactly what was illegal. This was a protected lion in a national reserve. It should have been safe. In tying a carcuss to a car and leading the lion out of it's protected area an illegal act was commited.



Whether Walter Fuckedup Palmer was there when the lion was lured out I don't know but if his sorry ass (or others like him), hadn't paid for the 'experience' of killing a lion then the guides wouldn't have had to resort to illegal measures to find him one.



Let's not forget that this poor excuse for a man has already admitted that he lied about where he illegally killed a black bear previously so he would have no problem lying again about saying he didn't know it was an illegal kill til Cecil was dead. It's what his lawyer will have advised too.



I have no sympathy for this man who I honestly hope loses everything. If it stops just one person with more money than sense committing murder for fun on any species of animal then the outrage will have been worth it. Lets also remember Cecil's cubs and the years of research that are now ruined because of this mans actions.

[Edited 8/1/15 8:36am]

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Reply #43 posted 08/01/15 8:36am

JoeTyler

OnlyNDaUsa said:

I think it is sick that people are making death threats. And going after him an lying about him. And I do not support him being extradited either.


I do not like the idea of killing something you are not going to eat... but if the country allows a hunt then they allow the hunt. What was illegal? That it was lured out? Okay that was messed up. But is that really what this is all about?


NOPE: this is just over reacting and seems to be more of a distraction of other actually important national events.



now they want to pull Trump into this by using the photo of his son with the elephant.

typical you

tinkerbell
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Reply #44 posted 08/01/15 8:42am

Hamad

avatar

Wooow neutral

Every saint has a past, and every sinner has a future...

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Reply #45 posted 08/01/15 9:25am

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

maplenpg said:

That's (in bold) exactly what was illegal. This was a protected lion in a national reserve. It should have been safe. In tying a carcuss to a car and leading the lion out of it's protected area an illegal act was commited.




Whether Walter Fuckedup Palmer was there when the lion was lured out I don't know but if his sorry ass (or others like him), hadn't paid for the 'experience' of killing a lion then the guides wouldn't have had to resort to illegal measures to find him one.



Let's not forget that this poor excuse for a man has already admitted that he lied about where he illegally killed a black bear previously so he would have no problem lying again about saying he didn't know it was an illegal kill til Cecil was dead. It's what his lawyer will have advised too.



I have no sympathy for this man who I honestly hope loses everything. If it stops just one person with more money than sense committing murder for fun on any species of animal then the outrage will have been worth it. Lets also remember Cecil's cubs and the years of research that are now ruined because of this mans actions.

[Edited 8/1/15 8:36am]

Are you sure the Lion was protected or was the Lion just on a preserve? and if it had been a ransom lion spotted and shot off the reserve that was not named or was not being tracked would you feel the same?

Which is my real question: how much of this hype is because this lion had a name?

And do you NOT get that lion hunts are legal? If it is JUST that he lured the lion out... is that really worth all the outrage?

Do you condone death threats against him?

"Keep on shilling for Big Pharm!"
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Reply #46 posted 08/01/15 9:30am

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

JoeTyler said:

typical you

yeah I tend to not react based on emotions or because someone on the tv box said I sould be mad...


So I ask you: if it was just a random lion off the preserve would you be just as mad? Or was it because this lion was lured off? Or was it because it had a name?

Are you opposed to deer hunts or fishing too?

(and I am opposed to these hunts myself. I just do not see this lion as special in any way. oh it was being tracked? So what? The people that chose this lion to track KNEW it could be killed. I am also think that for fishing if you can not eat it you should catch and release.)

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Reply #47 posted 08/01/15 9:37am

Hamad

avatar

OnlyNDaUsa said:

JoeTyler said:

typical you

yeah I tend to not react based on emotions or because someone on the tv box said I sould be mad...


So I ask you: if it was just a random lion off the preserve would you be just as mad? Or was it because this lion was lured off? Or was it because it had a name?

Are you opposed to deer hunts or fishing too?

(and I am opposed to these hunts myself. I just do not see this lion as special in any way. oh it was being tracked? So what? The people that chose this lion to track KNEW it could be killed. I am also think that for fishing if you can not eat it you should catch and release.)

People eat deers & fish. I doubt that the dentist killed the lion to fill his stomach up.

What a ridiculous comparison.

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Reply #48 posted 08/01/15 9:52am

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

Hamad said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

yeah I tend to not react based on emotions or because someone on the tv box said I sould be mad...


So I ask you: if it was just a random lion off the preserve would you be just as mad? Or was it because this lion was lured off? Or was it because it had a name?

Are you opposed to deer hunts or fishing too?

(and I am opposed to these hunts myself. I just do not see this lion as special in any way. oh it was being tracked? So what? The people that chose this lion to track KNEW it could be killed. I am also think that for fishing if you can not eat it you should catch and release.)

People eat deers & fish. I doubt that the dentist killed the lion to fill his stomach up.

What a ridiculous comparison.

it was not a comparison so mush as to gauge your views on those things. Both serve as sport and food. Some kinds of fish are not eaten but are caught and killed all the time for sport. "OH look I caught this 6 foot Tarpon..." or I shot me a puma or a fox!

So if he would have eaten cecil would that make it less of an offence?

I am trying to work out why all the anger over this one lion...

"Keep on shilling for Big Pharm!"
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Reply #49 posted 08/01/15 9:58am

Hamad

avatar

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Hamad said:

People eat deers & fish. I doubt that the dentist killed the lion to fill his stomach up.

What a ridiculous comparison.

it was not a comparison so mush as to gauge your views on those things. Both serve as sport and food. Some kinds of fish are not eaten but are caught and killed all the time for sport. "OH look I caught this 6 foot Tarpon..." or I shot me a puma or a fox!

So if he would have eaten cecil would that make it less of an offence?

I am trying to work out why all the anger over this one lion...

lol

Every saint has a past, and every sinner has a future...

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Reply #50 posted 08/01/15 10:43am

maplenpg

OnlyNDaUsa said:

maplenpg said:

That's (in bold) exactly what was illegal. This was a protected lion in a national reserve. It should have been safe. In tying a carcuss to a car and leading the lion out of it's protected area an illegal act was commited.




Whether Walter Fuckedup Palmer was there when the lion was lured out I don't know but if his sorry ass (or others like him), hadn't paid for the 'experience' of killing a lion then the guides wouldn't have had to resort to illegal measures to find him one.



Let's not forget that this poor excuse for a man has already admitted that he lied about where he illegally killed a black bear previously so he would have no problem lying again about saying he didn't know it was an illegal kill til Cecil was dead. It's what his lawyer will have advised too.



I have no sympathy for this man who I honestly hope loses everything. If it stops just one person with more money than sense committing murder for fun on any species of animal then the outrage will have been worth it. Lets also remember Cecil's cubs and the years of research that are now ruined because of this mans actions.

[Edited 8/1/15 8:36am]

Are you sure the Lion was protected or was the Lion just on a preserve? and if it had been a ransom lion spotted and shot off the reserve that was not named or was not being tracked would you feel the same?

Which is my real question: how much of this hype is because this lion had a name?

And do you NOT get that lion hunts are legal? If it is JUST that he lured the lion out... is that really worth all the outrage?

Do you condone death threats against him?

The very nature of it being in a preserve means it is protected. I am against any form of hunting so I do feel the same about ALL the pictures of meaningless kills for absolutely no reason other than to boost someones ego. However the fact that Cecil was in a reserve, that he was lured out by bait illegally, that he was part of a long term study makes him particularly special.


I do get that there are legal lion hunts. That doesn't mean that I think they are okay. What did the lion do to deserve being killed. Oh, that's right - nothing!

And...as for "If it is JUST that he lured the lion out" - please, that's like saying if someone stole it from a zoo then it would be okay. It's stolen, it's illegal, it's not okay.


No, I don't condone death threats. I do condone the fact that this could very well bankrupt him. Karma is sweet.



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Reply #51 posted 08/01/15 11:19am

morningsong

...
[Edited 8/1/15 11:23am]
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Reply #52 posted 08/01/15 12:39pm

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

maplenpg said:

The very nature of it being in a preserve means it is protected.

Wrong

I am against any form of hunting so I do feel the same about ALL the pictures of meaningless kills for absolutely no reason other than to boost someones ego. However the fact that Cecil was in a reserve, that he was lured out by bait illegally, that he was part of a long term study makes him particularly special.


Being lured off bugs me... the fact that he was part of a study is irrelevant.


I do get that there are legal lion hunts. That doesn't mean that I think they are okay. What did the lion do to deserve being killed. Oh, that's right - nothing!

Cool I tend to agree, the money made from the hunts... i suspect most is stolen by corrupt officials,,,

And...as for "If it is JUST that he lured the lion out" - please, that's like saying if someone stole it from a zoo then it would be okay. It's stolen, it's illegal, it's not okay.

no... the zoo owns it... a preserve is open and animals are free to come and go... not owned.


No, I don't condone death threats. I do condone the fact that this could very well bankrupt him. Karma is sweet.

ok thanks

"Keep on shilling for Big Pharm!"
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Reply #53 posted 08/01/15 1:43pm

maplenpg

OnlyNDaUsa said:

maplenpg said:

The very nature of it being in a preserve means it is protected.

Wrong RIGHT....See Below

I am against any form of hunting so I do feel the same about ALL the pictures of meaningless kills for absolutely no reason other than to boost someones ego. However the fact that Cecil was in a reserve, that he was lured out by bait illegally, that he was part of a long term study makes him particularly special.


Being lured off bugs me... the fact that he was part of a study is irrelevant.


I do get that there are legal lion hunts. That doesn't mean that I think they are okay. What did the lion do to deserve being killed. Oh, that's right - nothing!

Cool I tend to agree, the money made from the hunts... i suspect most is stolen by corrupt officials,,,

And...as for "If it is JUST that he lured the lion out" - please, that's like saying if someone stole it from a zoo then it would be okay. It's stolen, it's illegal, it's not okay.

no... the zoo owns it... a preserve is open and animals are free to come and go... not owned.


No, I don't condone death threats. I do condone the fact that this could very well bankrupt him. Karma is sweet.

ok thanks

According to Zimparks who own the reserve where Cecil lives, there is a definition of a huntable lion. This states how many lions can be killed, what age, sex etc... It clearly states that any male known to be heading prides should not be hunted. Therefore on his reserve Cecil was protected. The park itself describes Cecil as "iconic" so there would have been no doubt that the poachers knew they were luring him.


According to official press statement from the park Hwange National park is a "strictly non-hunting area" therefore Cecil should have been safe.



Also from the same press statement - it wasn't just the luring of Cecil out of the park that was illegal. Shooting it with a crossbow was illegal. Done quietly so that they couldn't be overheard. The place where it was lured to had a hunting license but not for lions and the hunt took place without the necessary quota and permit. I could go on. If you read the press statement Walter Palmer knew exactly what he and his hired help were doing.



The fact he was part of a study is important. He was the head of a pride, that's part of his attraction to researchers. He should have been safe. Imagine you've been working on something for years and then...poof...a criminal halts the whole thing. You'd be pissed at the criminal.

[Edited 8/1/15 13:44pm]

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Reply #54 posted 08/01/15 2:15pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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maplenpg said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

According to Zimparks who own the reserve where Cecil lives, there is a definition of a huntable lion. This states how many lions can be killed, what age, sex etc... It clearly states that any male known to be heading prides should not be hunted. Therefore on his reserve Cecil was protected. The park itself describes Cecil as "iconic" so there would have been no doubt that the poachers knew they were luring him.


According to official press statement from the park Hwange National park is a "strictly non-hunting area" therefore Cecil should have been safe.



Also from the same press statement - it wasn't just the luring of Cecil out of the park that was illegal. Shooting it with a crossbow was illegal. Done quietly so that they couldn't be overheard. The place where it was lured to had a hunting license but not for lions and the hunt took place without the necessary quota and permit. I could go on. If you read the press statement Walter Palmer knew exactly what he and his hired help were doing.



The fact he was part of a study is important. He was the head of a pride, that's part of his attraction to researchers. He should have been safe. Imagine you've been working on something for years and then...poof...a criminal halts the whole thing. You'd be pissed at the criminal.

[Edited 8/1/15 13:44pm]

that is not what you said...but cool.

as to the study: I get it is sucks. but they should have know it could happen. But I will wafflle a little based on us law. That is the rule of "you take your victims as you find them." It is like if you push me into a pool and my phone is ruined you got to buy me a new phone. you can not say "i did not know he had a phone" same with this: (and I belive he knew) if it was illegal (and I have not said it was not) then he could be held for the results known or unknown.


"Keep on shilling for Big Pharm!"
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Reply #55 posted 08/01/15 8:29pm

babynoz

This wasn't something the killer dentist was not familiar with. He has been to that preserve before. Furthermore they deliberately lured poor Cecil out of the protected area in order to murder him. This is not in dispute.

No excuses.

Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise.
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Reply #56 posted 08/01/15 8:43pm

babynoz

Mr. Killer Dentist also got in trouble in '08 in connection with the killing of a black bear. He knows what he's doing is wrong, he just doesn't care. The only reason he's trying to be concilliatory now is because he got caught.

Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise.
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Reply #57 posted 08/01/15 9:01pm

luv4u

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babynoz said:

Mr. Killer Dentist also got in trouble in '08 in connection with the killing of a black bear. He knows what he's doing is wrong, he just doesn't care. The only reason he's trying to be concilliatory now is because he got caught.


Yep!

canada

Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture!
REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince
"I kind of wish there was a reason for Prince to make the site crash more" ~~ Ben
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Reply #58 posted 08/02/15 12:04am

maplenpg

OnlyNDaUsa said:

maplenpg said:

According to Zimparks who own the reserve where Cecil lives, there is a definition of a huntable lion. This states how many lions can be killed, what age, sex etc... It clearly states that any male known to be heading prides should not be hunted. Therefore on his reserve Cecil was protected. The park itself describes Cecil as "iconic" so there would have been no doubt that the poachers knew they were luring him.


According to official press statement from the park Hwange National park is a "strictly non-hunting area" therefore Cecil should have been safe.



Also from the same press statement - it wasn't just the luring of Cecil out of the park that was illegal. Shooting it with a crossbow was illegal. Done quietly so that they couldn't be overheard. The place where it was lured to had a hunting license but not for lions and the hunt took place without the necessary quota and permit. I could go on. If you read the press statement Walter Palmer knew exactly what he and his hired help were doing.



The fact he was part of a study is important. He was the head of a pride, that's part of his attraction to researchers. He should have been safe. Imagine you've been working on something for years and then...poof...a criminal halts the whole thing. You'd be pissed at the criminal.

[Edited 8/1/15 13:44pm]

that is not what you said...but cool.

as to the study: I get it is sucks. but they should have know it could happen. But I will wafflle a little based on us law. That is the rule of "you take your victims as you find them." It is like if you push me into a pool and my phone is ruined you got to buy me a new phone. you can not say "i did not know he had a phone" same with this: (and I belive he knew) if it was illegal (and I have not said it was not) then he could be held for the results known or unknown.


My exact words "The very nature of it being in a preserve means it is protected" is what I said.



You said "Wrong" and then later the bolded above.



I showed you how Cecil (& other lions) are protected by Zimparks definition of a huntable lion (by their own official document). This protects the number of lions that can be hunted, where they can be hunted, the age & sex that can be hunted, how they can be hunted and that the head of the pride cannot be hunted.

If this does not mean that lions in the preserve are protected then I don't know what does.


As for the study, of course the researchers would have known that there was a possibility that Cecil could be poached. There is a possibility that my house could be burgled or my car stolen or that I could be pushed in a pool with a phone in my pocket. That does not excuse the person that commits the act in any way, especially when that act is calculated and illegal. I think we both agree that Walter Palmer should be held accountable regardless of what he says he knew/did not know.

[Edited 8/2/15 0:12am]

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Reply #59 posted 08/02/15 12:25am

maplenpg

luv4u said:

babynoz said:

Mr. Killer Dentist also got in trouble in '08 in connection with the killing of a black bear. He knows what he's doing is wrong, he just doesn't care. The only reason he's trying to be concilliatory now is because he got caught.


Yep!

Spot on.

Less serious but I believe he also had a conviction for fishing without a license too. This guy does doesn't want to obey the rules when it comes to killing animals.


I had to laugh out loud at a quote from a former patient, Mrs Mcguire - "I don't think he would have done this if he knew he would lose clients [or] money over it".

[Edited 8/2/15 0:26am]

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