[img:$uid]http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y60/jonwolslau/67fd149e-4719-4316-992e-7a3973a2a896_zps52746f40.jpg[/img:$uid]

Don't take this personally Jon, but that is a load of crap.

http://www.military.com/j...rview.html

It's not a fair comparison. You get all kinds of benefits by joining the military including:

• Educational Benefits - GI Bill, Tuition Assistance, Servicemember Opportunity Colleges, Education on Duty, etc.
• Advanced Technical and Specialty Training
• Tax-Free Housing & Food Allowances, or Free Room & Board
• 30 Days of Vacation per Year
• Space A Travel - Free flights between bases
• Substantial discounts and deals throughout the private sector (link to Deals center)
• Health & Dental Care for you and your family
• Special deals on Home Loans (VA Loans link)
• Pension

I also found the monetary amounts to be off somewhat based on info found here:

There are 9 levels of enlisted pay in the military. Most people enter the service at E-1, which stands for Enlisted Pay Grade 1. Most people advance to E-4 within about 3 years of service. Below is an example of the annual Regular Military pay for a servicemember at the E-4 pay level, with three years of military service.

Recent Example of Annual Military Pay:

*Estimated average based historical pay and allowance rates.

RodeoSchro said:

Don't take this personally Jon, but that is a load of crap.

But I think for the longest fast food jobs were mostly for teens in highschool in those upper teen years. Outside of a manager or supervisor. I don't remember a bunch of adults working at fast food spots looking to make a living off of. Maybe an adult who just wanted/needed some part time money.

Would a minimum wage increase mean a 17 would make the same as an adult who may need that $15?

It's a sad reality that many jobs that use to be available to adults are decreasing as the working population is increasing, add to that the availability to AFFORDABLE education is diminishing, yeah schools are increasing but knowing which offer a realistic future goal is becoming a gamble at a large expense. Yet, the concept that increasing fast food jobs to a liveable wage I don't believe it would happen without a serious cost of living increase which would put people who already make $15+ at risk because none of this will automatically increase their wages. Catch 22 all over itself. And I haven't heard anyone make sense out of it beyond the emotional and the empathetic, kind of screwed.

OldFriends4Sale said:

RodeoSchro said:

Don't take this personally Jon, but that is a load of crap.

But I think for the longest fast food jobs were mostly for teens in highschool in those upper teen years. Outside of a manager or supervisor. I don't remember a bunch of adults working at fast food spots looking to make a living off of. Maybe an adult who just wanted/needed some part time money.

Would a minimum wage increase mean a 17 would make the same as an adult who may need that $15?

Oh, I agree with you. My point, as Carrie so eloquently pointed out, was the OP was an apples vs. oranges comparison.

And sadly now there are millions of adults that rely on fast food wages for their sole source of income. Which, as we know, isn't a formula that works.

I don't know if it's the same in the US, guessing it probably is..... but here in the UK I believe a good deal of the fast food workers are on zero hour contracts meaning they don't get any paid sick leave and they aren't guaranteed to get any hours at all.

jon1967 said:

Militant said:

I don't know if it's the same in the US, guessing it probably is..... but here in the UK I believe a good deal of the fast food workers are on zero hour contracts meaning they don't get any paid sick leave and they aren't guaranteed to get any hours at all.

In Seattle most (some very small business are exempt) business by law must have paid sick leave including fast food. It's a Seattle law-not state or U.S. law.

[Edited 12/9/14 22:56pm]

I honestly dont understand peoples beef about teenagers getting the same wage... Alot do the same work, and someties do it better... I worked at a dairy queen type of joint in high school, was always in charge, was an excellent worker, and your telling me I didnt deserve the same pay?

One of my best friends, was in charge of people at the grocery store... Ive never met anyone more hardworking... She shouldnt of got the same wage?

My daughter was a closer at Mcdonalds, They used and abused her (like all jobs do to their good employees) And she didnt deserve the same pay?

The difference is they dont work as many hours a week, they get no benefits...

I just dont understand this argument...

[Edited 12/9/14 19:01pm]

tinaz said:

I honestly dont understand peoples beef about teenagers getting the same wage... Alot do the same work, and someties do it better... I worked at a dairy queen type of joint in high school, was always in charge, was an excellent worker, and your telling me I didnt deserve the same pay?

One of my best friends, was in charge of people at the grocery store... Ive never met anyone more hardworking... She shouldnt of got the same wage?

My daughter was a closer at Mcdonalds, They used and abused her (like all jobs do to their good employees) And she didnt deserve the same pay?

The difference is they dont work as many hours a week, they get no benefits...

I just dont understand this argument...

[Edited 12/9/14 19:01pm]

They aren’t necessarily arguing that teenagers doing the same work don’t deserve to be paid the same as an adult, but usually pointing out that since mostly teenagers hold these low wage jobs they aren’t expecting them to sustain their entire lives by their earnings, hence not needing to make a livable wage.

The problem with that, as Rodeo points out, is that we *do* in fact have all kinds of adults working these low wage/no benefits jobs and that’s all they have.

morningsong said:

It's a sad reality that many jobs that use to be available to adults are decreasing as the working population is increasing, add to that the availability to AFFORDABLE education is diminishing, yeah schools are increasing but knowing which offer a realistic future goal is becoming a gamble at a large expense. Yet, the concept that increasing fast food jobs to a liveable wage I don't believe it would happen without a serious cost of living increase which would put people who already make $15+ at risk because none of this will automatically increase their wages. Catch 22 all over itself. And I haven't heard anyone make sense out of it beyond the emotional and the empathetic, kind of screwed.

Exactly. Hell, I make $14 an hour and it took 15 years and a recent promotion to achieve that. I started my present job at $6.50 an hour and over the years, worked my way up to $12 which I stayed at for the longest until I got a recent promotion which put me up to $14. If it weren't for the promotion, I would still be making $12 because I was already getting more than anyone else in my same position and I had reached the maximum limit they were going to pay for that position. And I'm in an office job.

.

Hell no, that's not fair at all to people who have worked their way up over the years for someone at a damn fast food restaurant to make not only the same as, but more than what we make. Hell, I was stuck in a convenience store rut for nine years my damn self so I know those type of jobs don't pay anything. And I was damn lucky to get my present job in an office. If I didn't know someone that works here, I'd probably still be stuck in one of those stores. But once I finally got my foot in the door, I worked damn hard to get what little I've achieved and no, I don't deserve to be knocked back down to the level where I was before with those type of jobs making the exact same thing I make. Prices of everything else will go up but I guarantee you, my paycheck won't.

kewlschool said:

Militant said:

I don't know if it's the same in the US, guessing it probably is..... but here in the UK I believe a good deal of the fast food workers are on zero hour contracts meaning they don't get any paid sick leave and they aren't guaranteed to get any hours at all.

In Seattle most (some very small business are exempt) business by law must have paid sick leave including fast food. It's a Seattle law-not state or U.S. law.

[Edited 12/9/14 22:56pm]

Not here in Mississippi. When I worked in a convenience store for damn near the entire 1990s...(yet, another reason I hate that damn decade with a passion )...if you were out sick, you didn't get paid for that day. We got one week vacation the first year and two weeks vacation after the second year.

.

Sick leave is what they really need to be fighting for because everyone deserves that, and insurance too.

CarrieMpls said:

tinaz said:

I honestly dont understand peoples beef about teenagers getting the same wage... Alot do the same work, and someties do it better... I worked at a dairy queen type of joint in high school, was always in charge, was an excellent worker, and your telling me I didnt deserve the same pay?

One of my best friends, was in charge of people at the grocery store... Ive never met anyone more hardworking... She shouldnt of got the same wage?

My daughter was a closer at Mcdonalds, They used and abused her (like all jobs do to their good employees) And she didnt deserve the same pay?

The difference is they dont work as many hours a week, they get no benefits...

I just dont understand this argument...

[Edited 12/9/14 19:01pm]

They aren’t necessarily arguing that teenagers doing the same work don’t deserve to be paid the same as an adult, but usually pointing out that since mostly teenagers hold these low wage jobs they aren’t expecting them to sustain their entire lives by their earnings, hence not needing to make a livable wage.

The problem with that, as Rodeo points out, is that we *do* in fact have all kinds of adults working these low wage/no benefits jobs and that’s all they have.

Ahhhh, ok, I understand now.. Thank you!

vainandy said:

kewlschool said:

In Seattle most (some very small business are exempt) business by law must have paid sick leave including fast food. It's a Seattle law-not state or U.S. law.

[Edited 12/9/14 22:56pm]

Not here in Mississippi. When I worked in a convenience store for damn near the entire 1990s...(yet, another reason I hate that damn decade with a passion )...if you were out sick, you didn't get paid for that day. We got one week vacation the first year and two weeks vacation after the second year.

.

Sick leave is what they really need to be fighting for because everyone deserves that, and insurance too.

I was thinking along the same lines, Sick Leave is what people should be able to have access to.

But of course there has to be a lot of stipulations in line so people aren't just calling in sick so they can chill at home or go shopping.

does this have anything to do with mcdonalds sales dropping?

luvsexy4all said:

does this have anything to do with mcdonalds sales dropping?

Really? And even when I, an 'anti-Mcdonalds' advocate, started going back to McDonalds (just for breakfasts)?

I overheard a conversation on the bus the other day about what McDonalds these two girls were working. One didn't want to work in the town she lived in but instead wanted to travel to get to her Mcdonalds because she would rather work at a corporate McDonalds. The one where she lived is franchised and the owner owns 3 different Mcdonalds.

He is so cheap (I know him ). He does not want to pay for medical so they don't let people go over 20 hours a week or vary the hours from week to week so that they don't consistently get 20 hours, and then he doesn't have to pay for their medical. How cheap is that? Also, he doesn't give vacation, nor other benefits unless they are managers. Can you believe that the managers get 401K? For the regular employees 401K is a foreign word. The raises were by the penny, $.03. WOW! How generous.

Different story when I worked at Jack in the Box though.

You can't justify not supporting one group of low paid workers getting a raise just because workers in other jobs are also getting low pay.

.

Hell yes, the fast food workers should be paid more, and so should workers in so many other jobs.

We're all on the same team battling for better pay. Cost of everything goes up, while low to average paid jobs stay static. Re-direct displeasure at the people hoarding the wealth. Inequality is increasing. Support each other!

.

I would guess at least 90% of all workers believe they are underpaid. Is the OP rant saying fast food workers shouldn't complain about earning minimum wage, or is it saying fast food workers shouldn't make nearly the same as those who have more demanding jobs that require advanced skills and/or education?

Either way, there's an important point that seems to have been missed. If you're over 20 years old and working in fast food, you may start out at minimum but if you are a good worker and stick around for a while you WILL get promoted to a higher position with better pay. The reason so many teens work fast food is because the job is only temporary for them, they don't have a desire to work their way up the fast food ladder. So if you're an older fast food worker and are relying on your income to survive, then become a better worker so you can get promoted and make more money. Problem solved.

Its the same here in New Zealand, our minimum wage is fairly high at $14.25 an hour, but 16 - 20 years old get 80% and many fast food restaurants hire teenagers or ethnic minorities who they pay illegally under the table tax free wages of $5 to $10 an hour. Burger King only hires 15 year olds (Who have no minimum wage, Indian and Chinese workers).

.

Also 30% of our workforce is on minimum wage, and another 20% are within $1 of it. Casualisation is also common, where people have no job security. Again ultra capitalism is to blame. About 8% are unemployed and 15% more underemployed, many people work less than 30 hours a week at minimum wage or less and overtome is pretty much unknown. Unfettered immigration from the 3rd world has also led to hordes of potential employees willing to work for a pittance.

.

CEOS for major companies like SPARK (Telecom) are paid salaries in the region of $500k to $2 million with the same in performance bonuses, even if the company is not performing or making money. Many are also paid in share payouts and the country is lsowly being flogged off to the Chinese. The rights of the working poor do not exist any more. Its like we have gone back to the Industrial Revolution c. 1830 but without a Royalty.

.

Yet also at SPARK, many of its linesmen had their permanent contracts terminated and forced to reapply as "Casual Contractors" who have to pay their own ACC (Government Health Insurance), and get no paid holidays as they get their 8% holiday pay included in their wage, which was lifted 50 cents for the privilege. Same with Auckland Council, the mayor and his bureaucarts get massive 6 figure salaries and as much as $1000 a pop for attending a 5 minute meeting, yet they have hordes of cleaners (Mostly Pacific Islanders and Filipinos) paid minimum wage to work between 12am and 5am, and they ahve to pay $2 an hour to be in the cleaners union.

.

Another seniro civil servant, who fired a man for hugging a female as sexual harassment, approved himself a $50k pay rise for a "Good performance" taking his salary to $870k annually (About $725k US), yet he was about to be fired for non performance, that $50k rise is more than most workers earn annually here.

[Edited 12/13/14 18:07pm]

what is funny is people take the finical advice from people so poorly skilled and so totally uneducated and unqualified that the best job they can get is minimum wage.

And how come so many totally ignore that in raising the minimum wage it will also raise the poverty level. It will also lower the value of the dollar. An hour is still an hour...if you increase what that hour cost then the value of that time is the same the only thing that changed was the money.

Also it is imposable to have a standard living minimum wage. What do people with kids get paid more? or do people in the city get paid more?

OnlyNDaUsa said:

what is funny is people take the finical advice from people so poorly skilled and so totally uneducated and unqualified that the best job they can get is minimum wage.

And how come so many totally ignore that in raising the minimum wage it will also raise the poverty level. It will also lower the value of the dollar. An hour is still an hour...if you increase what that hour cost then the value of that time is the same the only thing that changed was the money.

Also it is imposable to have a standard living minimum wage. What do people with kids get paid more? or do people in the city get paid more?

Some European countries minimum wage start at 12 dollars an hour, some as high as 18 dollars an hour.

jon1967 said:

[img:$uid]http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y60/jonwolslau/67fd149e-4719-4316-992e-7a3973a2a896_zps52746f40.jpg[/img:$uid]

Hits the nail right on the head! Also, half the world lives on less than $2 a day, and they undoubtedly do MUCH MUCH MORE than Joe Q. Get-My-Order-Wrong, so until they make even half of what these twits want to make in a single day, they need to shut up!

CarrieMpls said:

http://www.military.com/j...rview.html

It's not a fair comparison. You get all kinds of benefits by joining the military including:

• Educational Benefits - GI Bill, Tuition Assistance, Servicemember Opportunity Colleges, Education on Duty, etc.
• Advanced Technical and Specialty Training
• Tax-Free Housing & Food Allowances, or Free Room & Board
• 30 Days of Vacation per Year
• Space A Travel - Free flights between bases
• Substantial discounts and deals throughout the private sector (link to Deals center)
• Health & Dental Care for you and your family
• Special deals on Home Loans (VA Loans link)
• Pension

I also found the monetary amounts to be off somewhat based on info found here:

There are 9 levels of enlisted pay in the military. Most people enter the service at E-1, which stands for Enlisted Pay Grade 1. Most people advance to E-4 within about 3 years of service. Below is an example of the annual Regular Military pay for a servicemember at the E-4 pay level, with three years of military service.

Recent Example of Annual Military Pay:

	Unmarried	Married with 2 children
Basic Pay	$24,300.00	$24,300.00
Cash for Meals	$3,886.44	$3,886.44
Cash or (Equivalent) for Housing*	$10,548.00	$13,932.00
Cash Total	$38734.44	$42,118.44
Federal Tax Advantage	$4,421.00	$5,412.00
Regular Military Compensation	$43,155.44	$47,530.44

*Estimated average based historical pay and allowance rates.

Of course it's a fair comparison. You just don't want to see that, probably because you're a proponent of it. I'm not conservative on too many things, but this is one of them.

tinaz said:

CarrieMpls said:

They aren’t necessarily arguing that teenagers doing the same work don’t deserve to be paid the same as an adult, but usually pointing out that since mostly teenagers hold these low wage jobs they aren’t expecting them to sustain their entire lives by their earnings, hence not needing to make a livable wage.

The problem with that, as Rodeo points out, is that we *do* in fact have all kinds of adults working these low wage/no benefits jobs and that’s all they have.

Ahhhh, ok, I understand now.. Thank you!

Puh-leeze, Sojourner.