Xibalba said:

Gunsnhalen said:

I am in the strong believe that meat shaming people is bullshit. And just as annoying as people who try to shame you for being atheist, christian, or another religion they don't like.

I have some friends who are vegan, or Vegetarian. I respect their choice to do that! never question, never shame them, never talk down to them. HELL... i even go to vegan restaurants with them cause I'm open minded. And when i invite a huge group of friends over... i will cook a vegan dish too. I try to be considerate and respectful about my friends diet and eating lifestyles.

Yet... even when i do all that. They still have to give me dozens of talks about what is in meat, it's killing this and that, all these facts about animals, and go on and on.

I'm a body-builder and in the best shape of my life. I am all about protein! yes i am 100% aware there are vegan or vegetarian options for this. But, i am not interested in that. I like the diet i am with and don't want a strict vegan or vegetarian diet. Why can't people respect that?

I feel vegans, vegetarians, and meat eaters. Should all worry about them and not preach to others about what they eat. Are the people they talk to about this overweight? are they in some sort of horrible state?

I also tell them I'm not trying to look like them, they're not trying to look like me, and we are young and healthy. That's all that should matter right? i just don't find constantly judging and preaching to others about converting to an eating lifestyle to be a helpful thing. I seriously feel like i have people trying to convert me another religion... or turn me from gay to straight. That is how intense some of the vegans and vegetarians get in LA.

Thoughts? comments?

1) I sincerely appreciate what you do for your friends - not many of mine are that open-minded.

2) Don't tar us all with the same brush like you seemed to end up doing in your post (which was a little disappointing after such a great opening salvo!) Because i'm not like them. At all.

I've been Vegetarian since 1985, and Lacto-Vegetarian for nearly ten years now. I don't judge others on what they eat (for pretty much the reasons you yourself stated so eloquently above). I will admit, it only truly frustrates me when people disrespect where their food comes from and what it went thru to get there - but even then, i'll still hold my tongue. But if people want to engage me on the topic, i'm happy to sit, listen and talk it out.

We're NOT all the same, thanks.

i never said you were all the same. I was talking about the specific group who are extreme.

0x41414141 said:

I'm a vagatarian.

Do vagitarians eat vaginas?

I have been vegan for 5 years.

I've probably been / can be at times one of the people you speak of.

Yeah. I think eating meat is a shameful thing to do. I try not to make personal attacks, but broadly speaking, yes that is how I feel.

We don't have the right to enslave and kill other sentient beings, who have just as much of a right to live as we do. Worse, it's culturally arbitrary - for example. in the Western world, most people would be horrified if you ate and killed your dog or cat. Yet, it's OK to do the same thing to a pig or cow? Why?

There's also the issues of global hunger. If the same land used to rear animals for human consumption was used to grow vegetables, there would be no world hunger.

By eating meat, you perpetuate both the suffering of animals and the suffering of humans that colonialism, capitalism and enslavement have pushed to the bottom of the heap.

And if that means nothing to you? Well, you're killing yourself. A serious chunk of sickness and disease comes directly from the demand for meat and the lengths we've gone to to farm animals at lower and lower costs. That fast food meat you're eating is giving you heart disease, cancer, strokes, and literally hundreds of other problems. Watch the documentary "Forks Over Knives" for the truth here.

Gunsnhalen, you seem like a cool guy. And, you know, I'm not going off on you, and I doubt I'm saying much you haven't heard before. But, you know, when you say "I'm a body-builder, I'm in good shape", etc..... it's kind of missing the point. Veganism isn't about you. It's about others.

I have been vegetarian for 25 years. I dabble in vegan for periods as well and raw foods if I can help it. All organic, no monsanto, gmos pesticides and avoid processed foods if I can. Avoid sugar and booze too.

I try not to give meatheads shit. My experience is that meatheads give me shit. I won't say a goddamn thing about food and they just can't handle it. Me sitting there not eating their poisonous murder cancer crap seems to be too much for their puny little dumb brains to handle. It gets old.

I guess meat eaters too get shit from some more aggressive activists. Good! You deserve it!

One thing that bugs the shit out of me is when meatheads get all sad when their dog is sick or dies. It is as tho their brain does not work or something. And then they want compassion because they are sad about their pet, even tho they sit there and eat animals every day.

I also get pissed when Christians eat animals. Uh oh, not going to heaven, hate to break it to you but "thou shall not kill" actually means what it says. It's just rediculous that they act all holy and righteous and then act in the most gluttonous self absorbed manner.

It is hard to believe that people lived to be 800, but I do. Consuming animal flesh kills our immortal human cells. Causes cancer too. It's hard to watch people you love get sick because they are too stubborn to break away from the societal programming.

Oh well. Such is life. We have the tools and skills for a civilized society, yet we constantly murder each other and everything good on the planet. People are stupid.

Ps. You don't need dead animals to build muscle or get your protien. Just look at gorillas. They eat bananas. Elephants / nuts etc ...

[Edited 12/22/13 19:36pm]

TrevorAyer said:

I have been vegetarian for 25 years. I dabble in vegan for periods as well and raw foods if I can help it. All organic, no monsanto, gmos pesticides and avoid processed foods if I can. Avoid sugar and booze too.

I try not to give meatheads shit. My experience is that meatheads give me shit. I won't say a goddamn thing about food and they just can't handle it. Me sitting there not eating their poisonous murder cancer crap seems to be too much for their puny little dumb brains to handle. It gets old.

I guess meat eaters too get shit from some more aggressive activists. Good! You deserve it!

One thing that bugs the shit out of me is when meatheads get all sad when their dog is sick or dies. It is as tho their brain does not work or something. And then they want compassion because they are sad about their pet, even tho they sit there and eat animals every day.

I also get pissed when Christians eat animals. Uh oh, not going to heaven, hate to break it to you but "thou shall not kill" actually means what it says. It's just rediculous that they act all holy and righteous and then act in the most gluttonous self absorbed manner.

It is hard to believe that people lived to be 800, but I do. Consuming animal flesh kills our immortal human cells. Causes cancer too. It's hard to watch people you love get sick because they are too stubborn to break away from the societal programming.

Oh well. Such is life. We have the tools and skills for a civilized society, yet we constantly murder each other and everything good on the planet. People are stupid.

Ps. You don't need dead animals to build muscle or get your protien. Just look at gorillas. They eat bananas. Elephants / nuts etc ...

[Edited 12/22/13 19:36pm]

Yep, you're one of the crazy ones. You honestly sound as judgemental as someone in a religion. Lots of people are raised as meat eaters. Do you hate people that are raisen christian? or raised by a black family? you almost sound as judgemental and crazy. Saying ''we all'' deserve the hate we get. FUCK THAT

[Edited 12/22/13 20:02pm]

[Edited 12/22/13 20:05pm]

I eat meat. I eat meat everyday. I don't give a flying fuck about what other people have to say about it.

I grew up raising animals. Chickens, cows, pigs, goats, ducks...

Once they were old enough, I killed them, cooked them, and ate them.

I don't feel bad about eating an animal, just as I don't feel bad about killing or eating a plant.

When I shop, I will go out of my way to purchase from places that treat their animals in a way that
I can respect.

I'm really surprised at how many active orgers are vegetarians or vegans, I'm happily surprised, I had no idea

databank said:

I'm really surprised at how many active orgers are vegetarians or vegans, I'm happily surprised, I had no idea

Isn't Prince a Vegan?

TrevorAyer said:

I have been vegetarian for 25 years. I dabble in vegan for periods as well and raw foods if I can help it. All organic, no monsanto, gmos pesticides and avoid processed foods if I can. Avoid sugar and booze too.

I try not to give meatheads shit. My experience is that meatheads give me shit. I won't say a goddamn thing about food and they just can't handle it. Me sitting there not eating their poisonous murder cancer crap seems to be too much for their puny little dumb brains to handle. It gets old.

I guess meat eaters too get shit from some more aggressive activists. Good! You deserve it!

One thing that bugs the shit out of me is when meatheads get all sad when their dog is sick or dies. It is as tho their brain does not work or something. And then they want compassion because they are sad about their pet, even tho they sit there and eat animals every day.

I also get pissed when Christians eat animals. Uh oh, not going to heaven, hate to break it to you but "thou shall not kill" actually means what it says. It's just rediculous that they act all holy and righteous and then act in the most gluttonous self absorbed manner.

It is hard to believe that people lived to be 800, but I do. Consuming animal flesh kills our immortal human cells. Causes cancer too. It's hard to watch people you love get sick because they are too stubborn to break away from the societal programming.

Oh well. Such is life. We have the tools and skills for a civilized society, yet we constantly murder each other and everything good on the planet. People are stupid.

Ps. You don't need dead animals to build muscle or get your protien. Just look at gorillas. They eat bananas. Elephants / nuts etc ...

[Edited 12/22/13 19:36pm]

I'm (obviously) with u on all this but I'll just be picky about the 800 years old thing, because a large number of the Indian population has been vegetarian (actually semi-vegan, because they won't eat eggs but they'll it dairy products) for millenias and their longevity or general health condition hasn't been proven better than ours or non-veg Indians. This being said I perfectly agree with the fact that vegetarians can be (and actually are) just as healthy as non-veg, no matter their lifestyle (sports, etc.). the idea that we need meat is a crazy myth. I'm not 100% sure about the validity of this article (I tend to be careful with what I read online) but it seems scientifically legit and it says that basically we're herbivores (which makes sense since early hominids were essentially herbivores): http://michaelbluejay.com...tural.html

Gunsnhalen said:

databank said:

I'm really surprised at how many active orgers are vegetarians or vegans, I'm happily surprised, I had no idea

Isn't Prince a Vegan?

He is. It'd be interesting to know whether this has had any influence or not upon each veg orger's decision to become veg

For me it wasn't a capital element: I had wanted to be veg' since I was a little child and the big step was mostly due to having many veggies around me at some point, but P being someone whose lyrics and life had always been a source of inspiration, it sure gave me some additionnal food 4 thoughts

LadyCasanova said:

I eat meat. I eat meat everyday. I don't give a flying fuck about what other people have to say about it.

I grew up raising animals. Chickens, cows, pigs, goats, ducks...

Once they were old enough, I killed them, cooked them, and ate them.

I don't feel bad about eating an animal, just as I don't feel bad about killing or eating a plant.

When I shop, I will go out of my way to purchase from places that treat their animals in a way that
I can respect.

On a funny, related side-note:

I'm in Slovakia right now (visiting my mother, brother, grand-parents etc.). Here, people eats lots, and they eat lots of meat especially, and most of them can't fathom how someone cannot eat meat.

Whenever I come to visit (which is about three times a year), I get asked the same bloody thing.

"Are you still doing this vegetarian thing?"

- "Yes, I'm still doing that vegetarian thing..."

"Don't you want a piece of turkey? It's hardly meat, it's so soft!"

- "No, thank you."

"But you could at least eat fish. That's not meat!"

- "No, thank you. Fish is meat just the same. Why wouldn't it be? [Sometimes I explain how some people got to the point believing fish isn't meat and tell them the story about Christian monks being too lazy to fast and not eat meat for a couple of months, hence declaring fish as "not meat", so that they can at least eat that]"

"Why don't you eat meat again?"

[by that point I am usually so annoyed that I give a snippy kind of answer]

- "Because I believe that we, as the human race, have developed far enough not to have to behave like fucking cavemen anymore and kill other living beings just to stay alive. Apart from that, eating the muscles of animals is gross and very unstylish [by that point I usually cross my legs in an extremely elegant, almost effeminate way and look into their eyes with the sexiest look I've got, because I know it will do their fucking heads in].

Dave1992 said:

"Because I believe that we, as the human race, have developed far enough not to have to behave like fucking cavemen anymore and kill other living beings just to stay alive. Apart from that, eating the muscles of animals is gross and very unstylish [by that point I usually cross my legs in an extremely elegant, almost effeminate way and look into their eyes with the sexiest look I've got, because I know it will do their fucking heads in].

Hahaha, I can almost see you doing that xD

I absolutely agree about fish. I always hear a bunch of excuses from those that claim to be vegetarians but still eat fish.

Anyway, I think that interfering with someone's diet choices just like that is actually a bit rude. It's a personal choice that I respect.

I don't mind discussing it at all (I even like it because I find the whole issue very interesting, and very important) but in a totally unpretentious way. And I certainly don't like anything being forced on me or anyone around me and trying to make anyone feel inferior. It's a huge turn-off for me, no matter which "side" it comes from. Yes to raising awareness, always, but in a non -intrusive way.

[Edited 12/23/13 7:52am]

I love my vegan brothers & sisters!

Leaves more meat for me to enjoy.

LadyCasanova said:

I eat meat. I eat meat everyday. I don't give a flying fuck about what other people have to say about it.

I grew up raising animals. Chickens, cows, pigs, goats, ducks...

Once they were old enough, I killed them, cooked them, and ate them.

I don't feel bad about eating an animal, just as I don't feel bad about killing or eating a plant.

When I shop, I will go out of my way to purchase from places that treat their animals in a way that
I can respect.

I'm not against eating meat. I'm against the meat industry, and that is why I rarely eat meat.

databank said:

Gunsnhalen said:

Isn't Prince a Vegan?

He is. It'd be interesting to know whether this has had any influence or not upon each veg orger's decision to become veg

For me it wasn't a capital element: I had wanted to be veg' since I was a little child and the big step was mostly due to having many veggies around me at some point, but P being someone whose lyrics and life had always been a source of inspiration, it sure gave me some additionnal food 4 thoughts

I became vegetarian mostly thanks to the influence of my cousin who broke me away from the societal dogmatic institutionalized mass murder of eating meat that most in the western world deal with growing up.

After about 3 or 4 years of being vegetarian, I came to the realisation that I couldn't reconcile eating dairy / eggs / animal by-products with the reasons why I was vegetarian, because it's still systematic enslavement of animals.

There's just as much cruelty, suffering and slavery in the world of producing dairy products and eggs. It's one and the same. Cows live through years of being tied to this disgusting milking machines, and when the metal causes them infection and they get sick, or when their milk production slows down thus making them less cost effective for the farmers (slave owners), they get killed.

I knew that Prince was/is a vegan, and some people probably thought it was him that turned me on to it, but that's not the case.

Dave1992 said:

"Because I believe that we, as the human race, have developed far enough not to have to behave like fucking cavemen anymore and kill other living beings just to stay alive. Apart from that, eating the muscles of animals is gross and very unstylish [by that point I usually cross my legs in an extremely elegant, almost effeminate way and look into their eyes with the sexiest look I've got, because I know it will do their fucking heads in].

This is EXACTLY what I believe, and I do that too Eating meat is the uncivilized behaviour of cavemen. See Dave, this is why you and I are friends

Health wise, being vegan is the best decision I've ever made. I have a perfect BMI without having to go to the gym And I eat as much as I want, and I don't ever put on weight. Because I eat the right things. Animals and animal products destroy the human body with large amounts of cholesterol and fat. Green leafy vegetables are a far more effective source of protein.

Gunsnhalen said:

TrevorAyer said:

I have been vegetarian for 25 years. I dabble in vegan for periods as well and raw foods if I can help it. All organic, no monsanto, gmos pesticides and avoid processed foods if I can. Avoid sugar and booze too.

I try not to give meatheads shit. My experience is that meatheads give me shit. I won't say a goddamn thing about food and they just can't handle it. Me sitting there not eating their poisonous murder cancer crap seems to be too much for their puny little dumb brains to handle. It gets old.

I guess meat eaters too get shit from some more aggressive activists. Good! You deserve it!

One thing that bugs the shit out of me is when meatheads get all sad when their dog is sick or dies. It is as tho their brain does not work or something. And then they want compassion because they are sad about their pet, even tho they sit there and eat animals every day.

I also get pissed when Christians eat animals. Uh oh, not going to heaven, hate to break it to you but "thou shall not kill" actually means what it says. It's just rediculous that they act all holy and righteous and then act in the most gluttonous self absorbed manner.

It is hard to believe that people lived to be 800, but I do. Consuming animal flesh kills our immortal human cells. Causes cancer too. It's hard to watch people you love get sick because they are too stubborn to break away from the societal programming.

Oh well. Such is life. We have the tools and skills for a civilized society, yet we constantly murder each other and everything good on the planet. People are stupid.

Ps. You don't need dead animals to build muscle or get your protien. Just look at gorillas. They eat bananas. Elephants / nuts etc ...

[Edited 12/22/13 19:36pm]

Yep, you're one of the crazy ones. You honestly sound as judgemental as someone in a religion. Lots of people are raised as meat eaters. Do you hate people that are raisen christian? or raised by a black family? you almost sound as judgemental and crazy. Saying ''we all'' deserve the hate we get. FUCK THAT

[Edited 12/22/13 20:02pm]

[Edited 12/22/13 20:05pm]

aw come on .. you start a thread about how horrible vegetarians are to you .. i responded about how horrible meat eaters are to vegetarians .. look .. you brought it up .. not a vegetarian .. what does being raised christian or by black people have to do with anything .. people are raised and influenced by the meat industry and the medical industry that wants you dead and eating this shit that will kill you .. and yes .. you deserve a little shame .. clearly you are proud of your murderous indulgences .. too bad if someone cracks your shell of ignorance once in a while just enough to let a little shame into your conciousness about your spoiled selfish eating habits .. deal with it .. if you are proud of your choices why come on here and start a thread about it. once again .. its the meat eaters who go out of their way to bitch about the vegetarians, as you have done on this thread .. you have proved the opposite of your point .. prince was vegan .. jesus was vegan .. god is vegan .. people are designe to be vegan .. sometimes watching people murder innocent life is hard to watch and people speak up .. so what is your excuse .. you are upset because people point out what you are doing .. some people protest war and drones and all that other nonsense that murders people .. are you one of those nuts that justifies that shit too .. people speak out when things are wrong .. people with brains that still work know right from wrong .. they know the industry is disgusting .. we even appeal to your own sense of self preservation .. even jesus appealed to the kings sense of self preservation when he instructed the king to put his men on a 10 day vegan diet, which resutled in all of them feeling better, less sluggish etc .. is jesus now a crazy nut too? .. you raised the topic and like a typical meathead you expect the vegans to just shut up and let you bask in your own ignorance .. whatever

dJJ said:

LadyCasanova said:

I eat meat. I eat meat everyday. I don't give a flying fuck about what other people have to say about it.

I grew up raising animals. Chickens, cows, pigs, goats, ducks...

Once they were old enough, I killed them, cooked them, and ate them.

I don't feel bad about eating an animal, just as I don't feel bad about killing or eating a plant.

When I shop, I will go out of my way to purchase from places that treat their animals in a way that
I can respect.

I'm not against eating meat. I'm against the meat industry, and that is why I rarely eat meat.

I have been privileged enough to live in areas where people still raise their own animals/ have
farms. Through those connections I am able to access meat that is not from the industry. It
is more expensive, but it also tastes a hell of a lot better.

LadyCasanova said:

I eat meat. I eat meat everyday. I don't give a flying fuck about what other people have to say about it.

I grew up raising animals. Chickens, cows, pigs, goats, ducks...

Once they were old enough, I killed them, cooked them, and ate them.

I don't feel bad about eating an animal, just as I don't feel bad about killing or eating a plant.

When I shop, I will go out of my way to purchase from places that treat their animals in a way that
I can respect.

TrevorAyer said:

aw come on .. you start a thread about how horrible vegetarians are to you .. i responded about how horrible meat eaters are to vegetarians .. look .. you brought it up .. not a vegetarian .. what does being raised christian or by black people have to do with anything .. people are raised and influenced by the meat industry and the medical industry that wants you dead and eating this shit that will kill you .. and yes .. you deserve a little shame .. clearly you are proud of your murderous indulgences .. too bad if someone cracks your shell of ignorance once in a while just enough to let a little shame into your conciousness about your spoiled selfish eating habits .. deal with it .. if you are proud of your choices why come on here and start a thread about it. once again .. its the meat eaters who go out of their way to bitch about the vegetarians, as you have done on this thread .. you have proved the opposite of your point .. prince was vegan .. jesus was vegan .. god is vegan .. people are designe to be vegan .. sometimes watching people murder innocent life is hard to watch and people speak up .. so what is your excuse .. you are upset because people point out what you are doing .. some people protest war and drones and all that other nonsense that murders people .. are you one of those nuts that justifies that shit too .. people speak out when things are wrong .. people with brains that still work know right from wrong .. they know the industry is disgusting .. we even appeal to your own sense of self preservation .. even jesus appealed to the kings sense of self preservation when he instructed the king to put his men on a 10 day vegan diet, which resutled in all of them feeling better, less sluggish etc .. is jesus now a crazy nut too? .. you raised the topic and like a typical meathead you expect the vegans to just shut up and let you bask in your own ignorance .. whatever

Well, that was nice. Someone this negative must have a lot of issues in life.

I'm happy, healthy, and successful. I hope one day you can be as happy as me. And not have to be so negative to others. Buddha bless you.

So, basically what i get is. It's ok for vegans or vegatarians to be an asshole to others cause it's helping them ''learn their ignorant ways''

Even when i never ONCE said anything negative about them. And, even tried to understand their diet. Even cooked vegan food when they are over... and i'm cool with going to vegan restaurants. Yet, it's ok to be an asshole to meat eaters? even when they do all that and are perfectly accepting of your diet? wow... that makes me kind of some of y'all think this way.

calling murder .. murder .. is not being an asshole

i am sure if someone ate your pet cat in front of you .. you would find it offensive and say something

if someone is racist do you say something? or do you just allow them to carry on?

sexist?

homophobic?

maybe .. maybe .. if you hunt and skin your own animal .. show thanks and appreciation for the life you stole .. maybe if you were hungry and it was your only option .. maybe I could barely understand ..

but you assholes who are like .. i love meat it tastes great i don't give a flying fuck whooo hoo .. ur just pigs .. no that is too kind .. even pigs dont eat other animals .. that's right .. the pig is more civilized .. hell try hunting an animal that can fight back

but no .. it is plain abuse and gluttony .. selfish and ignorant .. nothing more to it

go visit a slaughter house .. then come and post here .. i'd be real curious how you handle reality

I'm going to go against my better judgement and reply to this...even though it sounds like trolling...I'll assume there's some authenticity behind it...


Murder? I assume that YOUR definition of murder is vastly different than others'.
Murder applies to human beings.
Animals are animals, human beings are human beings.
If your personal beliefs assign humanity to all living creatures, then fine, but that's not reality.
A penguin - as cute and likeable as it may appear dancing to pop tunes in a CGI film - is not part of humanity. Neither are cats, cows, pigs, iguanas, ostriches, anacondas, llamas, etc., etc., etc.

So "murder" does not apply here.

What would I do if someone ate my cat in front of me? Well, I don't own a cat, so that would be weird. But I do own a dog. If someone killed my dog and ate it, I'd beat their ass and have them arrested. Let them find their OWN dog. I'm partial to mine. Of course if there was a famine and you paid me enough, I might just sell you my dog. It's chihuahua (bred hairless to be eaten, by the Aztecs) so it might taste good.

But not murder.

Murder is what people are doing around the world to their fellow human beings...for bits of gold, for anger, for religious intolerance, for land, for power, for being the wrong sex, and even for not wanting to go through with nine months of pregnancy.

That's about it for this topic I think. Gonna go hunt down a ham sandwich.

TrevorAyer said:

maybe .. maybe .. if you hunt and skin your own animal .. show thanks and appreciation for the life you stole .. maybe if you were hungry and it was your only option .. maybe I could barely understand ..

but you assholes who are like .. i love meat it tastes great i don't give a flying fuck whooo hoo .. ur just pigs .. no that is too kind .. even pigs dont eat other animals .. that's right .. the pig is more civilized .. hell try hunting an animal that can fight back

but no .. it is plain abuse and gluttony .. selfish and ignorant .. nothing more to it

go visit a slaughter house .. then come and post here .. i'd be real curious how you handle reality

Thats right, I murdered chickens. I also murdered a cow. I have murdered a few animals in my day.
Pet them with one hand and slit their throat with the other. It is sooo much easier to do when the
animals sees you every day and trusts you.

Funny that you talk so much game about animals, and than use one as a base line for an insult.
I guess you don't think that highly of them after all...

Honestly, your posts inspired me to make a HUGE thing of beef. I mean, holy shit...there is a lot of dead
animal. YUM YUM

Also, if it came down to it. I would eat a cat.

Given a choice, wild pigs usually flee rather than fight. However, U.S. newspapers report from 5 to 7 human fatalities each year.

PurpleJedi said:

I'm going to go against my better judgement and reply to this...even though it sounds like trolling...I'll assume there's some authenticity behind it...


Murder? I assume that YOUR definition of murder is vastly different than others'.
Murder applies to human beings.
Animals are animals, human beings are human beings.
If your personal beliefs assign humanity to all living creatures, then fine, but that's not reality.
A penguin - as cute and likeable as it may appear dancing to pop tunes in a CGI film - is not part of humanity. Neither are cats, cows, pigs, iguanas, ostriches, anacondas, llamas, etc., etc., etc.

So "murder" does not apply here.

What would I do if someone ate my cat in front of me? Well, I don't own a cat, so that would be weird. But I do own a dog. If someone killed my dog and ate it, I'd beat their ass and have them arrested. Let them find their OWN dog. I'm partial to mine. Of course if there was a famine and you paid me enough, I might just sell you my dog. It's chihuahua (bred hairless to be eaten, by the Aztecs) so it might taste good.

But not murder.

Murder is what people are doing around the world to their fellow human beings...for bits of gold, for anger, for religious intolerance, for land, for power, for being the wrong sex, and even for not wanting to go through with nine months of pregnancy.

That's about it for this topic I think. Gonna go hunt down a ham sandwich.

But humans and animals too. It's just that we've evolved quicker and are much more intelligent than other animals on this planet (although most of us are still hopeless idiots, as stupid as my aunt's dog...).

I can see how one might argue that, within the natural cycle, we have fought for the right and the power to be the kings and queens of this planet, and eat other living beings, just because we can. If a lion were strong enough, one might say, he would eat all of us too!

However, I believe that there is one even more striking thing that sets us apart from other animals, which is ethical behaviour. We do not have the right to behave like animals, because we have developed so far that we have given ourselves the choice. And we have behaved so far that we can afford protecting even those who do behave like animals and even those who are animals.

Even though pigs, dolphins and cows, for instance, are very intelligent, the average animal is still quite an idiot, far from what we talk romantically ourselves into seeing in them. But the thing is, by eating one of those animals or treating it bad, you don't just "do what every other animals would do out there". You do it against your better judgment. You do it, even though you'd have the power and the intelligence to not kill in order to eat.


So yes, while I agree that, bluntly spoken, no human life should be wasted in order to save an animal, I think it's part of our special human culture to go beyond the cruelty of nature, and find a way of keeping our planet ticking and working without engaging in killing ourselves, in believing in the "survival of the fittest".

Dave1992 said:

PurpleJedi said:

I'm going to go against my better judgement and reply to this...even though it sounds like trolling...I'll assume there's some authenticity behind it...


Murder? I assume that YOUR definition of murder is vastly different than others'.
Murder applies to human beings.
Animals are animals, human beings are human beings.
If your personal beliefs assign humanity to all living creatures, then fine, but that's not reality.
A penguin - as cute and likeable as it may appear dancing to pop tunes in a CGI film - is not part of humanity. Neither are cats, cows, pigs, iguanas, ostriches, anacondas, llamas, etc., etc., etc.

So "murder" does not apply here.

What would I do if someone ate my cat in front of me? Well, I don't own a cat, so that would be weird. But I do own a dog. If someone killed my dog and ate it, I'd beat their ass and have them arrested. Let them find their OWN dog. I'm partial to mine. Of course if there was a famine and you paid me enough, I might just sell you my dog. It's chihuahua (bred hairless to be eaten, by the Aztecs) so it might taste good.

But not murder.

Murder is what people are doing around the world to their fellow human beings...for bits of gold, for anger, for religious intolerance, for land, for power, for being the wrong sex, and even for not wanting to go through with nine months of pregnancy.

That's about it for this topic I think. Gonna go hunt down a ham sandwich.

But humans and animals too. It's just that we've evolved quicker and are much more intelligent than other animals on this planet (although most of us are still hopeless idiots, as stupid as my aunt's dog...).

However, I believe that there is one even more striking thing that sets us apart from other animals, which is ethical behaviour. We do not have the right to behave like animals, because we have developed so far that we have given ourselves the choice. And we have behaved so far that we can afford protecting even those who do behave like animals and even those who are animals.

Even though pigs, dolphins and cows, for instance, are very intelligent, the average animal is still quite an idiot, far from what we talk romantically ourselves into seeing in them. But the thing is, by eating one of those animals or treating it bad, you don't just "do what every other animals would do out there". You do it against your better judgment. You do it, even though you'd have the power and the intelligence to not kill in order to eat.


So yes, while I agree that, bluntly spoken, no human life should be wasted in order to save an animal, I think it's part of our special human culture to go beyond the cruelty of nature, and find a way of keeping our planet ticking and working without engaging in killing ourselves, in believing in the "survival of the fittest".

We haven't evolved more quickly, nor are we "more" evolved. We have simply evolved in a different manner.

I do not believe that eating an animal is unethical. I think torturing an animal is unethical,
but you can kill something and not be acting in an unethical manner.

You seem to be making an argument about rationality, mainly, that human rationality makes us
responsible for treating non-rational creatures in a certain manner. I believe in this, but to a limited extent.

Survival of the fittest is a very real part of evolution, but not in the way you are implying.

LadyCasanova said:

Dave1992 said:

But humans and animals too. It's just that we've evolved quicker and are much more intelligent than other animals on this planet (although most of us are still hopeless idiots, as stupid as my aunt's dog...).

However, I believe that there is one even more striking thing that sets us apart from other animals, which is ethical behaviour. We do not have the right to behave like animals, because we have developed so far that we have given ourselves the choice. And we have behaved so far that we can afford protecting even those who do behave like animals and even those who are animals.

Even though pigs, dolphins and cows, for instance, are very intelligent, the average animal is still quite an idiot, far from what we talk romantically ourselves into seeing in them. But the thing is, by eating one of those animals or treating it bad, you don't just "do what every other animals would do out there". You do it against your better judgment. You do it, even though you'd have the power and the intelligence to not kill in order to eat.


So yes, while I agree that, bluntly spoken, no human life should be wasted in order to save an animal, I think it's part of our special human culture to go beyond the cruelty of nature, and find a way of keeping our planet ticking and working without engaging in killing ourselves, in believing in the "survival of the fittest".

We haven't evolved more quickly, nor are we "more" evolved. We have simply evolved in a different manner.

I do not believe that eating an animal is unethical. I think torturing an animal is unethical,
but you can kill something and not be acting in an unethical manner.

You seem to be making an argument about rationality, mainly, that human rationality makes us
responsible for treating non-rational creatures in a certain manner. I believe in this, but to a limited extent.

Survival of the fittest is a very real part of evolution, but not in the way you are implying.

I am, of course, talking in terms of what we, as human beings, have found to be the most effective way of living an ethical life. Who is to say our ways could be "better" than an other animal's way? I agree... But we at least have the resources to think about these problems and find ways to solve them.


I believe that the natural road of evolution has long been altered and disrupted. Our intelligence (and therefore greed, jealousy and fantasies) make us pull the "survival of the fittest" card way too often. When it comes to evolution, there's no argueing we have long been the fittest of all on this planet. The next step is deciding carefully what we do with this power, in my opinion.