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my Paterno - Sandusky thread The eagerly-awaited results of the eight-month investigation, which was commissioned by the Penn State University trustees and headed up by former FBI director Louis Freeh, were released Thursday. There had been some selective leaks to the media, including reports that in February 2001, top school officials changed plans to report Sandusky after an incident with a boy in a shower because Paterno talked them out of it. On June 22, Sandusky, the Nittany Lions’ former defensive coordinator, was convicted of 45 counts involved with sexually assaulting 10 boys. Will Penn State tell all ...al report? “Joe Paterno did not cover up for Jerry Sandusky,’’ a Paterno family spokesman said in a statement released Tuesday night. “Joe Paterno did not know that Jerry Sandusky was a pedophile. Joe Paterno did not act in any way to prevent a proper investigation of Jerry Sandusky. To claim otherwise is a distortion of the truth.’’
- Like alot of people , I am not totally wrapped up into this but I have a unique perspective on this - having lived in PA and ... been around crazy PA STATE fans .. lol .
To put this in perspective - I have never been a huge PA STATE FAN and i remember - when I was in college back in 1985-88 - people saying that Joe was losing it ... didn't know his players names ... only knew the top stars names and usually just called out numbers... I remember being critical of him whenever he was on radio talk shows cus he would say the same things over and over "the team we are playing is a good team, we got to be prepared " even when he was facing Temple ... lol
When i was at PA STATE one time , I believe it was 1987 , I remember meeting a football player (he was not a starter - kinda like a backup tight end i think ) and he was making fun of Joe - as far as NOT knowing players etc . At that time , it was largely speculated that Joe was just a figurehead ... and assistant coaches were running the show ...
But I do respect him for putting academics over athletics ... he would bench people who had bad grades or did something wrong ...
He did come out and say he wishes he would have done more - before he passed away .
My thoughts don't really matter - but I personally think the guy had so many things on his mind - including getting PA STATE back to a ROSE BOWL etc .... he lived football ... so if someone said to him that a former coach was doing something in the showers ... I certainly can see that he didnt do as much as everyone thinks he should have done ! Monday morning quarterbacks aside - the guy was a football coach - and he was old ...and probably had no interest whether Jerry was having anal sex or anything regarding details ...
I think it is a shame to take an email - from someone who is covering their butt - and saying "joe said to do this" .... I think that is just dangerous and wrong - especially when the guy is dead .
Joe made a phone all - after he heard about it . He thought it was "taken care of" . He said he was sorry that he didn't do more .
Does he have fault . Sure . Do people that might have seen Jeffrey Dahmer's apartment years before Jeffrey Dahmer was caught have some faulth ?
I remember seeing Jerry Sandusky on a local show , when he was in my town doing charity work . I remember thinking "damn that guy looks creepy" .
I cannot believe - that someone didnt jump up and down when they saw him in a shower ... with a boy . That is creepy .
And then to know he was in charge of a charity for kids ? Creepy .
Ok . Enough. Have at me . I am sure there are people that will damn Joe , but I wish they would not . Colonel Angus may be smelly. colonel angus may be a little rough . but deep down ... Colonel angus is very sweet. | |
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After listening to Louis Freeh's press conference, I don't want to hear shit from any of the Joe Pa apologists. Fuck them. This went on for 14 years - like the report said, these bastards were more concerned about protecting the Penn State brand than protecting children. A failure of leadership - shameful. | |
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PSU needs to end its football program for a good decade. The Most Important Thing In Life Is Sincerity....Once You Can Fake That, You Can Fake Anything. | |
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I think this goes well beyond PSU this involves the whole college football league. How the hell when Sandusky retired that no other college offered him a job when he was in the prime of his career. Everyone knew what was going down at PSU. The Most Important Thing In Life Is Sincerity....Once You Can Fake That, You Can Fake Anything. | |
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I'm listening to Michael Kay & Stephen A. Smith. They think Penn State should get the death penalty.
The dude I can't understand in all this is McCreary. How the fuck do you walk in on a child being attacked in the shower and not tear Sandusky apart? He walks out, goes home and asks his dad what to do. I don't get it. | |
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Why should Penn State get the death penalty? This isn't a football-related cheating matter. It was criminal behavior on the part of a coach, and perhaps other non-football-playing adults.
As an alum of the one college that DID get the death penalty, I feel especially empowered to remark upon the death penalty's application thereof. | |
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At this moment all I can really do is My heart aches for the victims in all of this. I foresee criminal charges coming up on those that conspired to conceal what was happening, and rightfully so.
Selfish and irresponsible assholes, all of them. I'm sick and tired of the Prince fans being sick and tired of the Prince fans that are sick and tired! | |
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Paterno comes from a time in which child abuse was not talked about. In fact, it was best swept under the rug. He also comes from a time in which in many instances the abuse was blamed on the child, the perp would say "s/he came on to me" and everyone would accept that. It wasn't until the mid to late 80s, early 90s, that the idea of it not being the child's fault and it being the fault of the adult began to take hold. However, older people still have that "don't ask, don't tell" mentality. Back in the 90s, I became suicidal from the abuse I had went through, my grandmother's first statement to me was, "You don't have to tell them anything" when she found out I was in a stress unit. I knew she was telling me to not say anything about the abuse I had went through. While it doesn't excuse Paterno in any way, I understand his unwillingness to get more involved in the beginning than what he did based on the time period in which he grew up.
However, if I had been Joe Pa, when Sandusky wasn't immediately arrested, or charged, I would have questioned whether it had been reported, but Joe Pa didn't because of the "don't ask, don't tell" mentality. He wanted to assume it had been taken care of and his responsibility had come to an end. I don't know why anyone didn't question why Sandusky was still walking around if McCleary reported what he said he reported. The fact that no one questioned it, everyone assumed it had been taken care of (and had to have been taken care of in house, otherwise the police would have been there questioning and arresting Sandusky), makes me feel it is a football-related issue. Everyone swept it under the rug hoping someone else would take care of it, and no one did.
As a mandated reporter, which the coaching staff, the heads of the university, are all mandatory reporters, they are legally obligated to report suspicion of abuse to the real authorities, or to the Division of Social Services that handles child abuse. I have always been told that as a mandatory reporter, if I don't report abuse, I could lose my license to practice in my field. And I think everyone involved in this case should lose their right to practice in their field. | |
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He should've went to the police the moment he heard of the first incident. Simple as that.
If you don't do everything in your power to stop abuse when you see it, or at the very least investigate any allegations...then you're just as guilty.
Shame on the entire staff of Penn State for hiding this monster from justice. Shame on them ALL. The salvation of man is through love and in love. - Dr. V. Frankl
"When you close your heart, you close your mind." - Michael Jackson (Man In The Mirror) "I don't need anger management, I need people to stop pissing me off" | |
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I knew I was gonna get a shitload of criticism on this one ... but i liken this to a celebrity who walks by a homeless person and doesnt give him a few dollars ...
hate to say it ...
but Paterno did what he had to ... I just wonder how much of this kinda stuff happens ... not child abuse but all the crap that a coach is supposed to "worry about " .. look at the tattos the ohio state guys got and got dismissed ... the coach too ??? for a bunch of college kids that got tattos comp'ed???
football player smokes maryjane at a party . oh coach didnt do the right thing (with discipline) etc ...
all i am saying .... with all the horseplay in showers ... and this crap - I think an 81 yr old or however old he was .... sheesh ... the guy reported it ..... should he have done more ? goes without sayin (AND HE SAID IT TOO ) but ... to tarnish all his accomplishments and make him out to be a child molester ... is just wrong in my book .
I do have some questions as to the 98 and 99 allegations ... and why Paterno did not say something back then ... but I also say that hey when you work with someone ... day in ... day out .... and people sometimes LOVE THEIR COACH ... and i am sure some of the players hated their coach so I am sure rumours get started all the time ...
Colonel Angus may be smelly. colonel angus may be a little rough . but deep down ... Colonel angus is very sweet. | |
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I didn't see anyone criticizing you at all. I have seen people disagreeing that Paterno did all that he could. I do not think he did all that he could. He should have reported it to the proper authorities. When they had decided to tell the appropriate authorities, an email was sent out stating someone had changed their mind, in agreement with Joe, about not reporting it to the authorities. Therefore, they knew they should report it, and chose to not do so, and was afraid of the fallout if it was found out they did not report it. That says to me, they knew they were not following the proper protocol, and they knew Sandusky was abusing the kids. They chose instead to cover the football programs ass, rather than protecting the children from a pedophile. | |
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Excellent post, pritty - you nailed it. There are NO grey areas here, especially at Penn State. For years, Joe Pa described PSU as a moral beacon, a place where "we do things the right way". We now know that was a farce. They wanted to preserve that image over child safety. The fact that Sandusky was allowed to bring kids on campus shows you what was up. I'll bet the Gang of Four would have done something if Sandusky was in the shower with a child they were related to.
Paterno did many wonderful things. But for me, his legacy is tainted because of one bad decision that ruined those boys' lives. He failed to live up to his image. Had he done the right thing in 1998, he would have been a bigger hero.
To Jay Paterno and all the excuse-makers who played for his father(like Matt Millen), I don't want to hear their bullshit. | |
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And I agree with Kay & Smith....give Penn State the death penalty. While we're at it.....the Catholic church gotta go too. Sick of all the cover up and willful denial. What kind of species are we and what kind of nation are we when we can't protect our kids and when we let filth like Sandusky get away with violating kids year after year after year? Over what? Some damn football? GTFOHWTBS! I'M NOT SAYING YOU'RE UGLY. YOU JUST HAVE BAD LUCK WHEN IT COMES TO MIRRORS AND SUNLIGHT!
RIP Dick Clark, Whitney Houston, Don Cornelius, Heavy D, and Donna Summer. | |
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Absolute truth!!!!! And that's why I'm glad Sandusky will never leave prison, don't give a fuck about Jo Pa being dead and hope Penn State's football program goes down the toilet. I'M NOT SAYING YOU'RE UGLY. YOU JUST HAVE BAD LUCK WHEN IT COMES TO MIRRORS AND SUNLIGHT!
RIP Dick Clark, Whitney Houston, Don Cornelius, Heavy D, and Donna Summer. | |
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i appreciate your thoughts ... all of them .
like i said i am not a huge JoePa fan .
The email thing really bugs me ... I mean - just because someone types an email and says ColANgus said JoePa is god , doesnt mean that COlANgus really said it ...
I really think Joe thought Sandusky was creepy back in 98/99 (therefore did let him retire etc) but I also think Joe had more on his mind than worry about what Jerry was doing in the showers etc ...
Its like saying the President knew all about some guns the government were giving away in Mexico ...
Colonel Angus may be smelly. colonel angus may be a little rough . but deep down ... Colonel angus is very sweet. | |
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Handwritten notes and emails. I'm sure this exFBI agent reviewed everything in order to get to the truth, as close as he could. I'm sure the email in question, had probably CC'd Joe Pa, so that he would be aware of the situation as it was ongoing, the idea to not report it. I know at work, when there is a decision made and I send out an email, I send it out to everyone involved, including whoever I might have spoken with previously. And the fact is, the exFBI agent also has the date of the conversation that took place between Paterno and Curley. That means that conversation was referenced with the date of the conversation. Paterno wanted to protect his football program. He knew an allegation of this nature, the fact that it was happening at Penn state, in the locker rooms, would be bad PR for the club. Paterno was about protecting his football players, bringing out the best in them, encouraging them to strive for all they could, not just on the field, but off. This would undermine everything he had worked for with the football program. And he wasn't going to let anything undermine what he had spent his life building, no matter the cost. | |
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But he should have been worried about what Sandusky was doing in the showers. He was building a football empire and EVERYTHING that happens within that football program has the potential to knock it down like a set of dominos, especially what Sandusky was doing in the showers with those children. Most especially that. Building such a huge program, a program that had gained a lot of respect required a lot of work, yes, but protecting that program required even more. And the actions of Sandusky was the equivalent of playing Russian Roulette with that football program. Joe Pa should have been VERY worried about what Sandusky was doing in the showers. Paterno knew what this could do to his program. He knew what this meant for his legacy if it were ever discovered. And do you honestly think that he would worry about other things more than that? I'm sure this played heavily on his mind, at least until they felt they had effectively covered it up. Once it was covered up, it was out of sight, out of mind. I don't think he thought anyone would ever talk against his program, would ever bring out these allegations against Sandusky, and therefore his football legacy was safe. He died within a couple of months of Sandusky being arrested. Prior to that, there was no indication that he was sick (at least that I am aware of), and he went down pretty quick. I'm sure it was the guilt and his conscience that brought him down that fast. He knew he had screwed up. He knew what he had done. And he knew the truth would come out. All of it. I'm beginning to wonder if he really did die of cancer, or if that is the story the family is telling because they can't bare to reveal anything else that might indicate guilt on the part of Joe Pa. Though this last part is most definitely speculation. | |
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I read Sandusky started his Second Mile charity for underpriviliged kids in 1977. Shit, how many boys did he molest before the 1998 incident? That needs to be investigated. Dude even molested his adopted son. | |
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i was on the soccer team , and the swim team . We took showers all the time (and with gym) etc.
My point is - all the horse play that went on in the showers - do you think that a head coach of a football system like Ohio State , Penn State, Michigan , etc ... KNOWS WHAT SHIT GOES ON .... ???
I am sorry ... all the trivial things these guys get told daily .... I really don't think that Joe wanted to hear it ... he was worried about the next game .. the Wing T he was facing next week ... and such .... thats just my .02 cents ....
I have a "friend" from high school ... he and I were better friends when we were in middle school but- when he was like 35 or so he got caught for CHILD PORNOGRAPHY .... front page of the papers around here .... he apparently was sending files to someone in CALIFORNIA so he got whisked away to CA and wasnt even tried around here ...
My point was ... my first reaction was .... "NO" ... no way ... not him ....
He was this shy ... guy in school ... nice guy .. always had this blond girlfriend since like age 17 or so ... no kids .... she still stayed with him i think ...
So i can relate somewhat to someone saying they saw something strange ... and someone who he worked with ... so closely ... etc ... saying "no way " .. and then moving on .... somewhat ...
I know it doesnt change that he didnt do enough ... but ... I am just sayin ...
Colonel Angus may be smelly. colonel angus may be a little rough . but deep down ... Colonel angus is very sweet. | |
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According to today's NY Times, when Paterno found out prosecutors were moving against Sandusky(January 2011), he went to Penn State officials and wanted amendments to his contract. Basically, he'd retire in 2011 and get a $5.5 million parachute package. He knew what was coming and wanted out before the shit hit the fan. | |
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On top of all the inherent wrong-doing in all of this,(putting their reputations above the lives of young men), it absolutely boggles my mind that these coaches and administrators would think the public would look down on the University and football program if they turned Sandusky over to the authorities. Back when this first came to light, if Sandusky had been turned over to authorities, it would have shaken the University and program, but then it would have gone away. Even with child rape and molestation being the hidden crime that it was,(and is), history would have reflected favorably. Joe Paterno would have not only had a legacy of a legendary coach, he would have been a champion of humanity. And most importantly, scores of young men wouldn't have been raped by Sandusky. As it stands right now, I'm disgusted with Penn State and hope justice will be well and truly served. I'm firmly planted in denial | |
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again - horrible thing that happend.
Paterno came out and said , he should have done more .
I just do NOT think that you can crucify a man , who ... did call his higher up after being told by McQuery - - - again ... the guy was old but also I do not think he cared about Sandusky at all at that point ... (they had some falling out , which is evident .... ) .
I do realize that he could have done more ... but I also would say that almost EVERYONE can do more for some moral issues of our times .... I could spend more time fighting global warming ... I could help feed more homeless tomorrow ...
Colonel Angus may be smelly. colonel angus may be a little rough . but deep down ... Colonel angus is very sweet. | |
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Enabling a child predator for 14 years - Paterno and his gang deserve to be crucified. Age is no excuse. Paterno's actions once he found out the heat was coming on Sandusky shows you he knew the deal. | |
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Pretty much.
Reading through the report it seems pretty well documented (emails, etc.) that he knew what was going on and actively sought to cover it up.
As for having "better things to worry about," I can't imagine brushing aside any kind of allegation that serious. Period. Child molestation and rape? No way. At that point you want to do everything by the book and as above ground as ever. If you're a person of honor, integrity and even a shred of a hint of morals anyway. |
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I don't think the school should get the death penalty but maybe the school should shut down the program for a year and clean house with all the assistant coaches associated with Paterno and start new which they should have done this year. Don't laugh at my funk
This funk is a serious joint | |
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ColAngus - your statements seem to be saying that Paterno just did not care about the children and what they were going through. Your implication is that Paterno cared more for the football program than he did for the children that were being raped. Think about it. You are saying that Paterno had other things to worry about, besides some children being abused. You actually compare what Paterno has to worry about to some football team and tattoos and getting kicked off the team. No one is making Paterno out to be a child molester, however, what everyone is saying is that he covered up what Sandusky was up to, in order to protect his football program. The football program was more important than some kids that were being abused. So in essence, everyone is saying the same thing. Paterno's main concern was the football program, not the children that were being abused. It's just that everyone else is disgusted that Paterno put the football program first, over these children, and you seem to think him putting the football program first, was ok. That is where the difference comes into play with what we are all saying.
Now 3 more victims have come forward. These men state their abuse occured in the 70s, which was not long after Sandusky began working with Penn state. The implication of this is that there were even more victims, and hopefully they will continue to come forward. There is 20 years between these 3 and the ones Sandusky was found guilty for. If we think 10 boys per year, we are looking at over 200 victims. Statistically a pedophile abuses 150 children before they are caught with one child. This story will only continue to grow more detailed and extensive.
And yes, Paterno covered Sandusky's ass, but only because in doing so, he was protecting the "name" and "integrity" of the Penn State Football Program. In doing so, he is complicit in the abuse of the boys that were victimized after 2001.
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Penn State has decided to take down Joe Paterno's statue. | |
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I have not read the report . I am not a big JoePa fan , never was . But I kinda think this is a "rush to judgement" on a dead man - who cant speak .
He did say he wished he could do things different . Before he died .
This article kinda sums up what I have heard /read / feel :
http://www.johnziegler.com/editorials_details.asp?editorial=219
The basics :
Colonel Angus may be smelly. colonel angus may be a little rough . but deep down ... Colonel angus is very sweet. | ||||||||
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And yes, Paterno covered Sandusky's ass, but only because in doing so, he was protecting the "name" and "integrity" of the Penn State Football Program. In doing so, he is complicit in the abuse of the boys that were victimized after 2001.
I do not agree with that . Again , I am not a professional atty but I think most of this against Paterno is somewhat trampling on a dead mans legacy .
I do know this . Sandusky was greatly admired by defensive coaches and built Pa State up to become Linebacker U .
Sandusky thought he would take over when JOEPA retired .
Something happened around 1998-99 and Sandusky was "told " that he would never replace JOe ... and he retired or was allowed to retire .
Did Joe know then , that he was a abuser of children ? I am not convinced he did . He may have heard things ... or comments ... and just said "ok this guy is creepy , I do not want him around anymore " ...
I had a high school buddy .... who was caught with child porn ... I knew the kid when i was like in 6th grade . He was caught when i was like college age or older ... I never had any clue - but I really never cared about it ... i read stuff in the paper ... but ... still cant believe that - he did something like that .... my analogy there is that I really do not think Paterno "knew" .... I think he may have heard , like he did in 2001 - and he reported it to the police .... what else was he supposed to do ... run over to Jerrys house and ask him ? or punch him ? I mean - I still think this is all monday morning quarterback crap ...
Its just like this Aurora Co shooter ... i mean .... noone had too many clues this guy was a horrible freak , but are we going to blame some of them now ??? like the guy from the gun sale or gun club or whatever ?
we have statues of Patton for cripes sakes ... guys who said some pretty horrible things about war and killing people ..... I think a statue of Paterno should be allowed to stay ....
[Edited 7/24/12 13:42pm] Colonel Angus may be smelly. colonel angus may be a little rough . but deep down ... Colonel angus is very sweet. | |
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For starters, Curley wasn't interviewed, as well as others, due to their attornies advising them to not be involved in this investigation.
For a complete copy of the report:
http://www.thefreehreportonpsu.com/REPORT_FINAL_071212.pdf | |
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