namepeace said:

TonyVanDam said:

Thank you for reading between the line Gray.

NFL Commish Roger Goodell is out of his damn mind. And most of his latest business decisions is taking damn nearly all of the full out of playing defense. American football in the NFL is getting bad to the point that most defensive linemen AND linebackers are going to be too afraid to sack the QB without getting fined and/or suspended.

The NFL is entertainment. Its main entertainers are offensive skill players. They take the brunt of the injuries. When they're out, teams lose games AND money. They want to protect their investments -- the players who "draw."

They've eliminated helmet-to-helmet hits, late hits on QBs, horsecollars, etc. There have been problems with overzealous refs who flag clean hits. The "sack zone" is becoming like MLB's "strike zone" -- changes from crew to crew.

The flip side of that is that defenders are sloppier tacklers than they used to be. The "form tackle" is increasingly a lost art. And today's defenders are bigger, stronger and faster than ever. That's a perfect storm for injuries. To Os and Ds (Ds wind up being carted off as often as Os). Protecting these freakishlyh talented ballers from themselves is not a bad thing. Especially when the NFL is paying a larger share of the med care than it used to.

The game is also changing as a result. Like the NBA and MLB before them, the NFL is emphasizing scoring which not only drives ratings but could help cut down on injuries. Football has ALWAYS evolved by innovations and/or necessity. If it hadn't, Teddy Roosevelt would have killed the game a century ago.

A lot of folks don't like the changes, but they'll get over it. Myself included.

[Edited 3/22/12 12:11pm]

Oh please, if I wanted to see high powered finesse offenses scoring freaking 50+ points per game and defenses that is a non-factor by more than 70% of the time, I'll watch the freaking Arena Football League (AFL)!

TonyVanDam said:

namepeace said:

The NFL is entertainment. Its main entertainers are offensive skill players. They take the brunt of the injuries. When they're out, teams lose games AND money. They want to protect their investments -- the players who "draw."

They've eliminated helmet-to-helmet hits, late hits on QBs, horsecollars, etc. There have been problems with overzealous refs who flag clean hits. The "sack zone" is becoming like MLB's "strike zone" -- changes from crew to crew.

The flip side of that is that defenders are sloppier tacklers than they used to be. The "form tackle" is increasingly a lost art. And today's defenders are bigger, stronger and faster than ever. That's a perfect storm for injuries. To Os and Ds (Ds wind up being carted off as often as Os). Protecting these freakishlyh talented ballers from themselves is not a bad thing. Especially when the NFL is paying a larger share of the med care than it used to.

The game is also changing as a result. Like the NBA and MLB before them, the NFL is emphasizing scoring which not only drives ratings but could help cut down on injuries. Football has ALWAYS evolved by innovations and/or necessity. If it hadn't, Teddy Roosevelt would have killed the game a century ago.

A lot of folks don't like the changes, but they'll get over it. Myself included.

[Edited 3/22/12 12:11pm]

Oh please, if I wanted to see high powered finesse offenses scoring freaking 50+ points per game and defenses that is a non-factor by more than 70% of the time, I'll watch the freaking Arena Football League (AFL)!

Preach that shit!

The NFC Championship game between the Giants and 49ers was a wonderfully played defensive battle. That's the kind of football I like.

TonyVanDam said:

namepeace said:

The NFL is entertainment. Its main entertainers are offensive skill players. They take the brunt of the injuries. When they're out, teams lose games AND money. They want to protect their investments -- the players who "draw."

They've eliminated helmet-to-helmet hits, late hits on QBs, horsecollars, etc. There have been problems with overzealous refs who flag clean hits. The "sack zone" is becoming like MLB's "strike zone" -- changes from crew to crew.

The flip side of that is that defenders are sloppier tacklers than they used to be. The "form tackle" is increasingly a lost art. And today's defenders are bigger, stronger and faster than ever. That's a perfect storm for injuries. To Os and Ds (Ds wind up being carted off as often as Os). Protecting these freakishlyh talented ballers from themselves is not a bad thing. Especially when the NFL is paying a larger share of the med care than it used to.

The game is also changing as a result. Like the NBA and MLB before them, the NFL is emphasizing scoring which not only drives ratings but could help cut down on injuries. Football has ALWAYS evolved by innovations and/or necessity. If it hadn't, Teddy Roosevelt would have killed the game a century ago.

A lot of folks don't like the changes, but they'll get over it. Myself included.

[Edited 3/22/12 12:11pm]

Oh please, if I wanted to see high powered finesse offenses scoring freaking 50+ points per game and defenses that is a non-factor by more than 70% of the time, I'll watch the freaking Arena Football League (AFL)!

Ask any NFL lineman whether the game is a finesse game. Step on the field and line up across center, those road graders will show you . . . finesse.

People who know football know that the game will always be physical. That's the problem with a lot of fans who think they know the game: from the comfort of their living rooms or bar stools, they can wax masculine about how the game is getting soft.

Every generation of fan loves to talk about how football is softer than it used to be.

You'll watch and don't front like you won't.

[Edited 3/23/12 15:48pm]

uPtoWnNY said:

Preach that shit!

The NFC Championship game between the Giants and 49ers was a wonderfully played defensive battle. That's the kind of football I like.

And clean too.

So what's your point?

Banning certain types of hits doesn't take away from the core of the game.

namepeace said:

TonyVanDam said:

Oh please, if I wanted to see high powered finesse offenses scoring freaking 50+ points per game and defenses that is a non-factor by more than 70% of the time, I'll watch the freaking Arena Football League (AFL)!

Ask any NFL lineman whether the game is a finesse game. Step on the field and line up across center, those road graders will show you . . . finesse.

People who know football know that the game will always be physical. That's the problem with a lot of fans who think they know the game: from the comfort of their living rooms or bar stools, they can wax masculine about how the game is getting soft.

Every generation of fan loves to talk about how football is softer than it used to be.

You'll watch and don't front like you won't.

[Edited 3/23/12 15:48pm]

The main difference among the different NFL generations is that there are currently too many freaking rules that has and will continue to take too much fun AND freedom away from the defensive unit. Oppoosing offensive units that are finessed will benefit the most out of this and you know it.

The days of physical smash-mouth football are over and Roger Goodell will stop at nothing to keep it that way.

Regarding Sanchez -

When has the two QB system ever worked in the NFL, especially QBs with such different styles? Giants, Steelers, Pats, 49ers, Packers - with them it's one QB & one philosophy. So if Sanchez is on a roll, does Tebow still come in on 3rd down? Who runs the two minute offense?

Shit, if Sanchez struggles in training camp, those brain-dead Tebowmaniacs will call for his head. I do feel bad for Sanchez. The front office cut his legs out from under him. Let's be honest, Tebow didn't come here to be a backup. What backup QB has his own jet?

I've been listening to WFAN all day. The fans in favor of this have zero knowledge of football. Everyone's forgotten the plays Sanchez made to get the Jets to back-to-back AFC championships. The Jets gave Sanchez a 4yr-$50mil contract, and then they created a QB controversy ON PURPOSE!!! You can't make this shit up!

WFAN's Joe Beningo had a great line - the guys laughing the most are Bill Belichick & John Mara.

[Edited 3/23/12 19:13pm]

namepeace said:

TonyVanDam said:

Oh please, if I wanted to see high powered finesse offenses scoring freaking 50+ points per game and defenses that is a non-factor by more than 70% of the time, I'll watch the freaking Arena Football League (AFL)!

Ask any NFL lineman whether the game is a finesse game. Step on the field and line up across center, those road graders will show you . . . finesse.

People who know football know that the game will always be physical. That's the problem with a lot of fans who think they know the game: from the comfort of their living rooms or bar stools, they can wax masculine about how the game is getting soft.

Every generation of fan loves to talk about how football is softer than it used to be.

You'll watch and don't front like you won't.

[Edited 3/23/12 15:48pm]

I don't know what folks expect to do to change football. I blame it on the person, you chose to be in there and if you get the injuries and shit, that's on you. You the one that signed the contract.

uPtoWnNY said:

Joe is always on point, even when he used to be a caller...

This is such a lame move by the Jets..Shouldve traded Sanchez instead of Stanton (to the Colts) and do the inevitable...

Sanchez can be released after next year so his extension doesn't hold as much weight as it looks....if he sucks, he's gone...and I don't think he can handle the pressure of Tebow behind him...

I am not looking forward to an entire year of "When will Tebow take over?" and clips of Tebow preaching the gospel to his thug ass teammates...and how much you wanna bet this cat ends up on the Madden cover?

Never, EVER has anyone in NFL history been praised so much for so little.

^^ Blame the media and the religious nuts. According to Pat Robertson, god's going to smite Peyton Manning because of the way the Broncos treated Tebow. That shows you the brainpower of Tebowmaniacs. Yet he can't throw the ball more than 10 feet.

Tebow ain't gonna do shit anyways...

TonyVanDam said:

namepeace said:

Ask any NFL lineman whether the game is a finesse game. Step on the field and line up across center, those road graders will show you . . . finesse.

People who know football know that the game will always be physical. That's the problem with a lot of fans who think they know the game: from the comfort of their living rooms or bar stools, they can wax masculine about how the game is getting soft.

Every generation of fan loves to talk about how football is softer than it used to be.

You'll watch and don't front like you won't.

[Edited 3/23/12 15:48pm]

The main difference among the different NFL generations is that there are currently too many freaking rules that has and will continue to take too much fun AND freedom away from the defensive unit. Oppoosing offensive units that are finessed will benefit the most out of this and you know it.

The days of physical smash-mouth football are over and Roger Goodell will stop at nothing to keep it that way.

1. Smash-mouth football is not about headhunting, horsecollaring, etc. Smash-mouth football begins and ends at the line of scrimmage, from 0-Gap to 9-Gap. Mano-a-mano.

Zone blocks, combo blocks, gap discipline, pursuit angles, weakside fill, sliding pass protections. These battles will NEVER change. If you watch the field, and not the ball, you get full glimpse of the physicality of the game.

2. What WILL change is not how blockers engage, or tackles are shed, or how the passer is rushed. How players are tackled will change. Big hits will still be a part of the game. Even some now illegal hits will slide by the zebras.

3. The QB may be more protected, sure. But only in the sense that they will not be hit as much after the ball is released, and there are "strike zone" areas where they can't be hit at all. That's economics: QBs cost to much to hire and owners lose too much if they go down.

4. THE GAME CHANGED WELL BEFORE THE NEW RULES. Take a look at the last several SB champs. Most had prolific passers, and several had defenses that weren't elite. A few were among the worst in the league in rushing yards/game. The RB is no longer the feature player offensively. Defenses punish RBs with such regularity that most teams rush by committee. While you still have to run the ball to maintain balance, for the better part of a decade, teams haven't had to play NFC East style football -- the type that many of us grew up on -- to win titles.

A lot of techniques have been outlawed since the game became popular. People have still watched. It always evolves, but it will always be a game of will and test of power.

Timmy84 said:

namepeace said:

Ask any NFL lineman whether the game is a finesse game. Step on the field and line up across center, those road graders will show you . . . finesse.

People who know football know that the game will always be physical. That's the problem with a lot of fans who think they know the game: from the comfort of their living rooms or bar stools, they can wax masculine about how the game is getting soft.

Every generation of fan loves to talk about how football is softer than it used to be.

You'll watch and don't front like you won't.

[Edited 3/23/12 15:48pm]

I don't know what folks expect to do to change football. I blame it on the person, you chose to be in there and if you get the injuries and shit, that's on you. You the one that signed the contract.

Exactly. There are 3 QBs on a team's roster. If the starting QB goes down with an injury, there are 2 back-up QBs remaining. Use them!

TonyVanDam said:

Timmy84 said:

I don't know what folks expect to do to change football. I blame it on the person, you chose to be in there and if you get the injuries and shit, that's on you. You the one that signed the contract.

Exactly. There are 3 QBs on a team's roster. If the starting QB goes down with an injury, there are 2 back-up QBs remaining. Use them!

lol I think fuckers are always building one star of a team. When the star's out, they're "in trouble".

Timmy84 said:

TonyVanDam said:

Exactly. There are 3 QBs on a team's roster. If the starting QB goes down with an injury, there are 2 back-up QBs remaining. Use them!

lol I think fuckers are always building one star of a team. When the star's out, they're "in trouble".

After they pay the 1st guy, they don't have money for much of anything else. There's a dropoff between 1 and 2 and a huge dropoff between 1 and 3, on most teams.

namepeace said:

Timmy84 said:

lol I think fuckers are always building one star of a team. When the star's out, they're "in trouble".

After they pay the 1st guy, they don't have money for much of anything else. There's a dropoff between 1 and 2 and a huge dropoff between 1 and 3, on most teams.

Yeah that's how I always think that's how it goes down...

Timmy84 said:

namepeace said:

After they pay the 1st guy, they don't have money for much of anything else. There's a dropoff between 1 and 2 and a huge dropoff between 1 and 3, on most teams.

Yeah that's how I always think that's how it goes down...

The Giants may have found the blueprint for how to spend your money:

1. A franchise quarterback, and

2. A stable of thoroughbreds to chase down the OPPONENT's 1st string QB.

Those without franchise QBs -- 2/3 of the league -- try to find that guy or spend money somewhere else to compensate.

At the end of the day, the owners will make that bidness decision to protect the QB.

^^^ Not just the Giants - Steelers, Patriots, Packers, Saints, Falcons, Bengals, Panthers - they're set at QB. And they're confident in him. What the Jets did shows you they've LOST conference in their 'franchise' QB.

uPtoWnNY said:

^^^ Not just the Giants - Steelers, Patriots, Packers, Saints, Falcons, Bengals, Panthers - they're set at QB. And they're confident in him. What the Jets did shows you they've LOST conference in their 'franchise' QB.

Sure . . . all those teams are set at QB for the immediate future. I think 90% of the move was to motivate Sanchez, and if he doesn't respond, Tebow will be the stopgap (again) until the Jets settle on another QB. This move will make or break Ryan and perhaps Tannenbaum as well.

I think the Giants are unique because they also have 2 sets of bookend rushers. No one else has depth at that key position like the G-Men. When their guy can gets time time in the pocket, and they don't give the opponent's guy any room to breathe, the Jints are hard to stop.

^^^ And in SB XLII, the Giants had Strahan to go along with the younger pass rushers. With all these spread offenses in today's NFL, pass rushers are a MUST. Now Jerry Reese has to figure a way to keep these guys.

As for Sanchez, he didn't have a good year, but he was number 6 on the list of reasons the Jets finished 8-8.

UPDATE - Brandon Jacobs signed with the 49ers.

[Edited 3/28/12 10:20am]

uPtoWnNY said:

^^^ And in SB XLII, the Giants had Strahan to go along with the younger pass rushers. With all these spread offenses in today's NFL, pass rushers are a MUST. Now Jerry Reese has to figure a way to keep these guys.

As for Sanchez, he didn't have a good year, but he was number 6 on the list of reasons the Jets finished 8-8.

UPDATE - Brandon Jacobs signed with the 49ers.

[Edited 3/28/12 10:20am]

True.

I thought Brian Schottenheimer wasn't the best play-caller, though there's been whispers Ryan put the clamps on him. For all of the hype their D gets, THEY don't have a 1st-class pass-riusher though Maybin had his best season as a pro. Their O-Line was porous at times. Shonn Greene was inconsistent. And their WR corps was often a mess.

Are those the 5 reasons ahead of Sanchez? Feel free to interchange them

namepeace said:

uPtoWnNY said:

^^^ And in SB XLII, the Giants had Strahan to go along with the younger pass rushers. With all these spread offenses in today's NFL, pass rushers are a MUST. Now Jerry Reese has to figure a way to keep these guys.

As for Sanchez, he didn't have a good year, but he was number 6 on the list of reasons the Jets finished 8-8.

UPDATE - Brandon Jacobs signed with the 49ers.

[Edited 3/28/12 10:20am]

True.

I thought Brian Schottenheimer wasn't the best play-caller, though there's been whispers Ryan put the clamps on him. For all of the hype their D gets, THEY don't have a 1st-class pass-riusher though Maybin had his best season as a pro. Their O-Line was porous at times. Shonn Greene was inconsistent. And their WR corps was often a mess.

Are those the 5 reasons ahead of Sanchez? Feel free to interchange them

You are correct sir...and I'll add another - they were weak at safety, too. But everyone's dumping on Sanchez. People forgot his first two seasons, he won FOUR road playoff games, and made big plays in each one. Of course, he struggled this season, but he was never the same after getting fucking MAULED by the Ravens. He's still a better QB than Tebow.

With so many holes to fill, giving up draft picks and $2mil for a backup QB is asinine and bad football business. But that's Woody Johnson - always wanting star power. Meanwhile, the Jets haven't had a stud pass rusher since John Abraham.

uPtoWnNY said:

namepeace said:

True.

I thought Brian Schottenheimer wasn't the best play-caller, though there's been whispers Ryan put the clamps on him. For all of the hype their D gets, THEY don't have a 1st-class pass-riusher though Maybin had his best season as a pro. Their O-Line was porous at times. Shonn Greene was inconsistent. And their WR corps was often a mess.

Are those the 5 reasons ahead of Sanchez? Feel free to interchange them

You are correct sir...and I'll add another - they were weak at safety, too. But everyone's dumping on Sanchez. People forgot his first two seasons, he won FOUR road playoff games, and made big plays in each one. Of course, he struggled this season, but he was never the same after getting fucking MAULED by the Ravens. He's still a better QB than Tebow.

With so many holes to fill, giving up draft picks and $2mil for a backup QB is asinine and bad football business. But that's Woody Johnson - always wanting star power. Meanwhile, the Jets haven't had a stud pass rusher since John Abraham.

I think they signed LaRon Landry, and he's a natural force at safety and could land in the Pro Bowl in Ryan's system.

I think the league needs Sanchez to blossom. If the Jets are winning, the NFL is even better.

Woody Johnson is headed into Snyder territory.