Pomade said:

PunkMistress said:

Ottie: !

This part of the article bothered me:

Imagine a world in which roles were reversed and men cooked for women, picked up socks, and couldn't wait to get married. Pretend you had a boyfriend who owned a hope chest with six lavender bow ties inside that he wanted his groomsmen to wear at the wedding. Picture him getting choked up every time you strolled past a Baby Gap. And that he greeted you at the door wearing silk boxers and cowboy boots, so he could do a pole dance for you. Then add a few ultimatums:

“Where's my ring?”
“Why won't you marry me?”

Chances are, you would assume the guy wasn't firing on all cylinders. And then you’d start planning your escape.

Really?

Can any of the women on this thread relate to that caricature? Do women of our generation really have hope chests full of wedding crap from the time we're children? Do we really cry at the sight of baby booties? And then say things like "where's my ring?" If that's the author's idea of current gender roles...I'm glad I don't live where they live.

[Edited 12/31/11 7:05am]

Why, hello there, smart person.

PunkMistress said:

JoeTyler said:

Yeah, any husband needs a blowjob, but, does that turn the wife into a biatch??

Not if they were smart enough to make sure their views on blowjobs were compatible before they got married.

Exactly.

Also, I want to clarify, I don't even know what they're implying with this article, because I'm not exactly sure that being a bitch is definable. It's an overused and under-defined word, to be sure. Certainly men can be bitches just as well as women.

My previous comment related more to the concept that being mean, aggressive, forceful or whatever, is going to get you a wedding ring.

Lastly, my Sister and Niece both had/have chests/boxes full of wedding crap. They buy/bought wedding magazines (my niece is still 17) and regularly watch (record even) wedding shows. And we're in California, where you would think that type of tradition would not be as practiced as other places. So, yes, women still do all that.... stuff.

Cerebus said:

Lastly, my Sister and Niece both had/have chests/boxes full of wedding crap. They buy/bought wedding magazines (my niece is still 17) and regularly watch (record even) wedding shows. And we're in California, where you would think that type of tradition would not be as practiced as other places. So, yes, women still do all that.... stuff.

I'm 44...

I used to want to get married more than anything. I spent a great deal of my 30s lamenting over "what was wrong with me". I had my gown designed, my music picked out, and all the details worked out: Insert Man.

I turned 40, and my attitude changed and I realized that I may not ever get married.

I've bought a house, I finished my Doctorate this year, and I'm not so sure I still want to be married...

Wishing for something is a lot different than forcing your will upon someone, which is what the article is talking about.

If I meet someone, cool, but my days of wanting the big White Wedding are over- esp if I have to beg, or plot & plan to get it.

at your responses!

I didn't know what to make of this article when I saw it, but I found it interesting.

I'm getting a consensus that this article is just dumb then?

I've read the majority of the article and still reading it, but basically what I get from it is that men (who are ready to settle down) are attracted to women with backbones as potential for being their wife. Okay. But why does a woman with a backbone have to be a bitch? Maybe the attitude that comes along with having a backbone comes off as bitchy? Well if that's the case then, I must be one and guess what I'm still single. What now?

To me, a true bitch is the one who puts her "good" man down in front of family and friends and in public, is selfish, greedy, and expects not only him but ALL to bow down and kiss her ass. And I have seen this case plenty of times in full view. It leaves you wondering why a man would stand to "settle" for a woman who clearly disrespects him and treats him like shit. In this case, I'm definitely the opposite of a bitch. So as I guess as someone said before, it depends on what a person's definition of "bitch" is.

missfee said:

I've read the majority of the article and still reading it, but basically what I get from it is that men (who are ready to settle down) are attracted to women with backbones as potential for being their wife. Okay. But why does a woman with a backbone have to be a bitch? Maybe the attitude that comes along with having a backbone comes off as bitchy? Well if that's the case then, I must be one and guess what I'm still single. What now?

To me, a true bitch is the one who puts her "good" man down in front of family and friends and in public, is selfish, greedy, and expects not only him but ALL to bow down and kiss her ass. And I have seen this case plenty of times in full view. It leaves you wondering why a man would stand to "settle" for a woman who clearly disrespects him and treats him like shit. In this case, I'm definitely the opposite of a bitch. So as I guess as someone said before, it depends on what a person's definition of "bitch" is.

So there are good bitches and bad bitches, as I said earlier.

But , why would a man marry a mean and disrespectful woman?

My guess is that such a man likes to be controlled and therefor have someone else to blame for any and all things that go wrong. This is a man who lacks a backbone. Everyone feels bad for him. He is most definately passive aggressive. He pushes her buttons, she fumes and looks like the drama Queen biach and then he is back looking like a nice sweet guy who just married the wrong woman.

There are 2 sides to every story. Beware of sweet men who consistently dated/married mean bitches.

Cerebus said:

Deadflow3r said:

missfee said:

I've read the majority of the article and still reading it, but basically what I get from it is that men (who are ready to settle down) are attracted to women with backbones as potential for being their wife. Okay. But why does a woman with a backbone have to be a bitch? Maybe the attitude that comes along with having a backbone comes off as bitchy? Well if that's the case then, I must be one and guess what I'm still single. What now?

To me, a true bitch is the one who puts her "good" man down in front of family and friends and in public, is selfish, greedy, and expects not only him but ALL to bow down and kiss her ass. And I have seen this case plenty of times in full view. It leaves you wondering why a man would stand to "settle" for a woman who clearly disrespects him and treats him like shit. In this case, I'm definitely the opposite of a bitch. So as I guess as someone said before, it depends on what a person's definition of "bitch" is.

So there are good bitches and bad bitches, as I said earlier.

But , why would a man marry a mean and disrespectful woman?

My guess is that such a man likes to be controlled and therefor have someone else to blame for any and all things that go wrong. This is a man who lacks a backbone. Everyone feels bad for him. He is most definately passive aggressive. He pushes her buttons, she fumes and looks like the drama Queen biach and then he is back looking like a nice sweet guy who just married the wrong woman.

There are 2 sides to every story. Beware of sweet men who consistently dated/married mean bitches.

You've brought up an interesting point. I never really thought about it from this angle before.

Well, if any man wants to marry one, then propose. I remembered about 15 years ago, I was pushing my daughter on the stroller down the boardwalk in NYC, and this Hispanic couple was bickering about something. I've only heard the tail end of that conversation. She told the man if he doesn't buy a two carat ring for her, she is not going to marry him. I'm curious to know what happened to that relationship.

I've seen a book by a similar title. I didn't read it but kind of skimmed it. To an extent I think some of it's true. I think it all boils down to what's been repeated here many a time, don't let some make you their option while you make them your priority. Works regardless the gender. IMO a bitch is somebody that doesn't spend a lot of time concerning themselves about anothers wants or needs but focuses more on their own. And I guess just like in all things there are degrees, some degrees are healthier than others.

I know PLENTY of "bitches*" who never married or on their way to a divorce.

Bitches: women who are seen as bossy/controlling because they choose stand up to men and put their needs first. I guess it gets old for the men after a while.... maybe that's why I never married.

[Edited 1/1/12 23:32pm]

paintedlady said:

I know PLENTY of "bitches*" who never married or on their way to a divorce.

Bitches: women who are seen as bossy/controlling because they choose stand up to men and put their needs first. I guess it gets old for the men after a while.... maybe that's why I never married.

[Edited 1/1/12 23:32pm]

PunkMistress said:

Ottensen said:

..and there you have it! Who the hell wants to use "tactics" to "catch" a husband??? Whatever happened to being yourself, being a mature adult, and hell, just clicking with somebody because you have the same interests, values, and life aspirations? I want a life mate that I can enjoy my sunset years with, not a sparring partner. Life is complicated enough without having to spend your life dragging people by the ears to do your bidding.

Ottie: !

This part of the article bothered me:

Imagine a world in which roles were reversed and men cooked for women, picked up socks, and couldn't wait to get married. Pretend you had a boyfriend who owned a hope chest with six lavender bow ties inside that he wanted his groomsmen to wear at the wedding. Picture him getting choked up every time you strolled past a Baby Gap. And that he greeted you at the door wearing silk boxers and cowboy boots, so he could do a pole dance for you. Then add a few ultimatums:

“Where's my ring?”
“Why won't you marry me?”

Chances are, you would assume the guy wasn't firing on all cylinders. And then you’d start planning your escape.

Really?

Can any of the women on this thread relate to that caricature? Do women of our generation really have hope chests full of wedding crap from the time we're children? Do we really cry at the sight of baby booties? And then say things like "where's my ring?" If that's the author's idea of current gender roles...I'm glad I don't live where they live.

[Edited 12/31/11 7:05am]

Ya Know???!!!

I was sitting here reading that, and all I could hear was that Prince line from "Something in the Water",

"don't not compute.. "

paintedlady said:

I know PLENTY of "bitches*" who never married or on their way to a divorce.

Bitches: women who are seen as bossy/controlling because they choose stand up to men and put their needs first. I guess it gets old for the men after a while.... maybe that's why I never married.

[Edited 1/1/12 23:32pm]

Nah, see...that's not a bitch to me. When I think of bitch I think more of the type of woman Chocolate1 was describing. I think of an irate, ball busting shrew who's neither considerate, compassionate, nor is interested in in teamwork in a relationship rather than being a psychological dominatrix and condescending control freak. I know because I used to be one of them.

Ottensen said:

paintedlady said:

I know PLENTY of "bitches*" who never married or on their way to a divorce.

Bitches: women who are seen as bossy/controlling because they choose stand up to men and put their needs first. I guess it gets old for the men after a while.... maybe that's why I never married.

[Edited 1/1/12 23:32pm]

Nah, see...that's not a bitch to me. When I think of bitch I think more of the type of woman Chocolate1 was describing. I think of an irate, ball busting shrew who's neither considerate, compassionate, nor is interested in in teamwork in a relationship rather than being a psychological dominatrix and condescending control freak. I know because I used to be one of them.

Yeah... ^^^ that's a better desciption... I figured all controlling women were seen as bitches.

I am happy you are no longer like that.

From your desciption I could be seen as the opposite more of a doormat until I explode from sucking up my feelings and turn into phsyco-bitch for a day or two.... yeah, I am changing that also. I'm learning to protest as soon as the issue arises and not bottle stuff up.

paintedlady said:

I know PLENTY of "bitches*" who never married or on their way to a divorce.

Bitches: women who are seen as bossy/controlling because they choose stand up to men and put their needs first. I guess it gets old for the men after a while.... maybe that's why I never married.

Nonsense. Absolute nonsense. But it is pretty telling that a woman created that definition.

And just to clarify, even though I don't really want to. Women can be bitches to women and men can be bitches, too (as I already stated). Your definition is a typically one-sided comment used by angry women who aren't happy about the way a relationship has turned out.

Cerebus said:

And just to clarify, even though I don't really want to. Women can be bitches to women and men can be bitches, too (as I already stated). Your definition is a typically one-sided comment used by angry women who aren't happy about the way a relationship has turned out.

But why would one be bitter/angry? Why can't she just be labeled as honest?

Surely you have seen the dynamic of uncompromising men and women who have to fight for every inch they gain in a relationship when dealing with men who tend to be set in their ways?

She becomes a bitch when she has had enough and begins to "strike back". Doing petty shit (bitches do) to get back at her guy....

But your own response is sorta presumptuous to think that women need to be jaded and left angry by how their relationships turned out. Heck, most women express relief after everything is said and done, ready to focus on herself again to renew herself and enjoy her new found independence.

Well it does say how to get a man to propose not keep him for a lifetime. So...maybe that's exciting in the beginning.

morningsong said:

Well it does say how to get a man to propose not keep him for a lifetime. So...maybe that's exciting in the beginning.

A follow up book/article on "How to divorce a bitch" should be the next step for the author.

paintedlady said:

morningsong said:

Well it does say how to get a man to propose not keep him for a lifetime. So...maybe that's exciting in the beginning.

A follow up book/article on "How to divorce a bitch" should be the next step for the author.

paintedlady said:

Cerebus said:

And just to clarify, even though I don't really want to. Women can be bitches to women and men can be bitches, too (as I already stated). Your definition is a typically one-sided comment used by angry women who aren't happy about the way a relationship has turned out.

But why would one be bitter/angry? Why can't she just be labeled as honest?

Surely you have seen the dynamic of uncompromising men and women who have to fight for every inch they gain in a relationship when dealing with men who tend to be set in their ways?

She becomes a bitch when she has had enough and begins to "strike back". Doing petty shit (bitches do) to get back at her guy....

But your own response is sorta presumptuous to think that women need to be jaded and left angry by how their relationships turned out. Heck, most women express relief after everything is said and done, ready to focus on herself again to renew herself and enjoy her new found independence.

I think you should look up the definition of that word and try applying it to some of you own posts in this thread. I'm the one who said anybody could be a bitch - man, woman, whatever. You keep speaking for women as a whole, or for "most" of them, at least. I find that presumptuous in the extreme. It's your opinion and your definition of what it means to be a bitch. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's not so much bitchhood rather manipulation. Some men succumb to it easier than others.

ThruTheEyesOfWonder said:

Want a man to propose? Be a bitch

Want your marriage (or engagement) to collapse post-haste, due to game-playing and the fact that you've chosen a partner with self-esteem issues? See above.

So I guess the moral of this thread is..

Being a confident, independent woman doesn't make you a bitch.

And men have varying tastes when it comes to choosing a life partner.

Myth of "marrying the bitch" BUSTED!

Cerebus said:

paintedlady said:

But why would one be bitter/angry? Why can't she just be labeled as honest?

Surely you have seen the dynamic of uncompromising men and women who have to fight for every inch they gain in a relationship when dealing with men who tend to be set in their ways?

She becomes a bitch when she has had enough and begins to "strike back". Doing petty shit (bitches do) to get back at her guy....

But your own response is sorta presumptuous to think that women need to be jaded and left angry by how their relationships turned out. Heck, most women express relief after everything is said and done, ready to focus on herself again to renew herself and enjoy her new found independence.

I think you should look up the definition of that word and try applying it to some of you own posts in this thread. I'm the one who said anybody could be a bitch - man, woman, whatever. You keep speaking for women as a whole, or for "most" of them, at least. I find that presumptuous in the extreme. It's your opinion and your definition of what it means to be a bitch. Nothing more, nothing less.

You are reaching .... again. You try to twist words ... but its an understood rule, we are only speaking of bitches and not ALL women.

Not all women are bitches yanno.

It is not a requirement to agree with me... but please don't ever try to tell me to look up any definition of any word when its you that misintrepets everything to sell a weak point.

paintedlady said:

Cerebus said:

I think you should look up the definition of that word and try applying it to some of you own posts in this thread. I'm the one who said anybody could be a bitch - man, woman, whatever. You keep speaking for women as a whole, or for "most" of them, at least. I find that presumptuous in the extreme. It's your opinion and your definition of what it means to be a bitch. Nothing more, nothing less.

You are reaching .... again. You try to twist words ... but its an understood rule, we are only speaking of bitches and not ALL women.

Not all women are bitches yanno.

It is not a requirement to agree with me... but please don't ever try to tell me to look up any definition of any word when its you that misintrepets everything to sell a weak point.

Not selling anything. Not reaching for anything. Not ASSUMING that people know what anybody means when they clearly write something else. Not telling anybody how anything is - that's your gig.

Also, I didn't TRY to tell you to look up a word. I TOLD YOU to look up a word. And I'll continue to say whatever I like as I've seen you do nothing but the same.

EVERY man I dated proposed....3 with rings. It didn't happen because I was some "bitch" but because nobody can imagine life without me once I've established my presence. Whatever.....this is an ass backwards view in my opinion. " />