2005: iPod Evolved

2007: iPhone Madness Begins

2010: iPad Breaks New Ground

2010: The Beatles Go Digital

I am very devastated that Steve died.

I think he was a rather remarkable man.

Here are some photos from London, UK that I shot!

[img:$uid]http://farm7.st.../img:$uid]Untitled by chrissananda, on Flickr

[img:$uid]http://farm7.st.../img:$uid]Untitled by chrissananda, on Flickr

[img:$uid]http://farm7.st.../img:$uid]Untitled by chrissananda, on Flickr

[img:$uid]http://farm7.st.../img:$uid]Untitled by chrissananda, on Flickr

[img:$uid]http://farm7.st.../img:$uid]Untitled by chrissananda, on Flickr

[img:$uid]http://farm7.st.../img:$uid]Untitled by chrissananda, on Flickr

[img:$uid]http://farm7.st.../img:$uid]Fiat 500 in Camden! by chrissananda, on Flickr

[Edited 10/11/11 13:58pm]

I have thought of this man so many times in the last 6 days. I keep playing his words and they are all so true. I hope young people listen to him and follow their curiosity verses being too practical. Stay foolish is so true. You can not be afraid of looking foolish.

V10LETBLUES said:

SquirrelMeat said:

The Lisa came 5 YEARS after the Xerox GUI.

The apple II GUI was a copy of the Xerox invention, running on a basic software written by Bill Gates. Try looking up "Xerox Alto" and "applesoft".

There is no point starting a time line at 1978 and claiming apple were first.

As for the phones, thats laughable.

Don't you think is rather strage that apple had a six month gap between announcement and release? 6 months? They NEVER do that normally. Its clear were trying to look to be first when they were copying what already existed.

The Iphone 1 even borrowed more than design from Samsung, most of its phone functionality was "borrowed" too.

Oh, and how do you explain this

Annouced in 2006 and released in early 2007

Again, before the iphone. The wonderful LG Prada. Form and function.

Are you really claiming that the iphone came first, when these phones were already out???

Look up "reality distortion field" while you are at it.

I see you backtracked and show the Prada now instead of the Samsung. Good for you. It seems you looked it up and confirmed for yourself. As for the Prada, the only similarity is the shape. The similarity ends there.

The Xerox "experimental" UI you speak of, is just that. Jobs visisted their research facility and the folks at Xerox did not know the potential or what their researchers had on their hands. It was not anywhere near a product in the market. Or that anyone outside that reseach facility knew about our used. Apple received permission to incorporate parts of it inot their products in exchange for stock.

Look this up and confirm for yourself. I welcome you backtrack some more.

LOL. How is bring yet another example of the pre iphone a backtrack. It seems some people are in complete denial than anything came before the apple version.

Are you seriously suggesting that the Prada, a touch screen black slab with music player is nothing like the iphone.

errrr ok. With that logic, I think Apple invented everything !

alandail said:

SquirrelMeat - first of all, I know the history, I lived it. My first compuer was an Apple ][+ with AppleSoft basic. I know full well where that came from.

There is no question that Bill Gates is a better programmer than Steve Jobs. There is also no question that Steve Jobs is a better innovator and visionary than Bill Gates. It's really not even close.

There were plenty of technologies that existed in a lab in some form before Steve Jobs turned them into products. He never turned them into products in the same form as they existed in the lab. He had a unique ability to see things, strip out the noise, and create something far better.

I'm fully away of the Xerox Alto (which you gave the screen shot of) and even the Apple Lisa. I even owned an Apple Lisa. Xerox Alto and Apple Lisa didn't change the world, Macintosh was a parallel project to Lisa at Apple, made massive improvements on the gui Xerox had (which itself wasn't the first gui), and forever changed the face of computers. Computers today don't look like the xerox alto, they look like the original Macintosh, complete with a menu bar, desktop, etc.

I'm not sure why you think Applesoft basic ties into the history of GUI. It has absolutely nothing ot do with it. After Macintosh was released, Apple did release a version of a GUI on the Apple 2 gs, but it wasn't writtin in Basic and was part of the post Steve Jobs era.

And, again, saying Steve Jobs was just a marketer is like saying Prince is just a guitar player. Of course both are great at those respective aspects, but in both cases there is far, far more to it than that.

[Edited 10/9/11 11:18am]

I think you are getting crossed wired. I never said that applesoft was a GUI. I was using both applesoft and xerox as points to prove that Steve Jobs was never an innovator. He was are Marketeer. And a damn good one.

He didn't innovate with a Apples first machine, nor a GUI, more the iphone, nor the ipad. That are all simply improvements in existing designs. That is not inovation.

The ipod was a bigger leap forward than other products, but even then, there were already good USB stick players out and wild.

I think its a pointless agruement. Its clear that the cult of Apple blissfully ignore what came before. My best mate is an apple head and he thinks they came up with everything. Everytime I show him what came before. He just goes silent, then changes his tact to words like "better" and "desirable".

Its just like MJ fans.

I'm no Apple hater, I have a 27" i7 imac as my main PC.

Steve jobs was a great marketeer, not a innovator. But lets not take my word for it, try Steve Wozniak, someone far better placed that you and I.

Go to BBC iplayer and watch the "Click" tribute to Stevie Jobs. Wozniak quite clearly points out that Jobs came up with no innovation, and that his strength was in Marketing.

SquirrelMeat said:

alandail said:

SquirrelMeat - first of all, I know the history, I lived it. My first compuer was an Apple ][+ with AppleSoft basic. I know full well where that came from.

There is no question that Bill Gates is a better programmer than Steve Jobs. There is also no question that Steve Jobs is a better innovator and visionary than Bill Gates. It's really not even close.

There were plenty of technologies that existed in a lab in some form before Steve Jobs turned them into products. He never turned them into products in the same form as they existed in the lab. He had a unique ability to see things, strip out the noise, and create something far better.

I'm fully away of the Xerox Alto (which you gave the screen shot of) and even the Apple Lisa. I even owned an Apple Lisa. Xerox Alto and Apple Lisa didn't change the world, Macintosh was a parallel project to Lisa at Apple, made massive improvements on the gui Xerox had (which itself wasn't the first gui), and forever changed the face of computers. Computers today don't look like the xerox alto, they look like the original Macintosh, complete with a menu bar, desktop, etc.

I'm not sure why you think Applesoft basic ties into the history of GUI. It has absolutely nothing ot do with it. After Macintosh was released, Apple did release a version of a GUI on the Apple 2 gs, but it wasn't writtin in Basic and was part of the post Steve Jobs era.

And, again, saying Steve Jobs was just a marketer is like saying Prince is just a guitar player. Of course both are great at those respective aspects, but in both cases there is far, far more to it than that.

[Edited 10/9/11 11:18am]

I think you are getting crossed wired. I never said that applesoft was a GUI. I was using both applesoft and xerox as points to prove that Steve Jobs was never an innovator. He was are Marketeer. And a damn good one.

He didn't innovate with a Apples first machine, nor a GUI, more the iphone, nor the ipad. That are all simply improvements in existing designs. That is not inovation.

The ipod was a bigger leap forward than other products, but even then, there were already good USB stick players out and wild.

You're gonna need to name some of them. MP3 players at that time were either bulky and slow or small with minimal storage.

Steve jobs was a great marketeer, not a innovator. But lets not take my word for it, try Steve Wozniak, someone far better placed that you and I.

Go to BBC iplayer and watch the "Click" tribute to Stevie Jobs. Wozniak quite clearly points out that Jobs came up with no innovation, and that his strength was in Marketing.

I think you need to watch that video again, because your summary doesn't match what I saw. Woz said that Steve was a manager of the little details and understood that they mattered, saying that the "tiny little nuances in between one product and another make a huge difference." He went on to say that, while Steve "never did the real right-down-to-the-guts of the technology, the actual design," he managed it, understood it, knew who to trust as far as the tech people went, and basically knew what should and shouldn't be included in the products. How is that saying he wasn't an innovator? Innovation doesn't have to mean starting something from scratch. Just to name one example, the iPod was the first MP3 player of its kind (truly portable, spacious, good battery life, fast file transfers) and it blew everything else out of the water. That's innovation. And since everyone agrees that Steve had a big hand in deciding what did and didn't make it into the products, he certainly deserves some of the credit for innovating.

SquirrelMeat said:

alandail said:

SquirrelMeat - first of all, I know the history, I lived it. My first compuer was an Apple ][+ with AppleSoft basic. I know full well where that came from.

There is no question that Bill Gates is a better programmer than Steve Jobs. There is also no question that Steve Jobs is a better innovator and visionary than Bill Gates. It's really not even close.

There were plenty of technologies that existed in a lab in some form before Steve Jobs turned them into products. He never turned them into products in the same form as they existed in the lab. He had a unique ability to see things, strip out the noise, and create something far better.

I'm fully away of the Xerox Alto (which you gave the screen shot of) and even the Apple Lisa. I even owned an Apple Lisa. Xerox Alto and Apple Lisa didn't change the world, Macintosh was a parallel project to Lisa at Apple, made massive improvements on the gui Xerox had (which itself wasn't the first gui), and forever changed the face of computers. Computers today don't look like the xerox alto, they look like the original Macintosh, complete with a menu bar, desktop, etc.

I'm not sure why you think Applesoft basic ties into the history of GUI. It has absolutely nothing ot do with it. After Macintosh was released, Apple did release a version of a GUI on the Apple 2 gs, but it wasn't writtin in Basic and was part of the post Steve Jobs era.

And, again, saying Steve Jobs was just a marketer is like saying Prince is just a guitar player. Of course both are great at those respective aspects, but in both cases there is far, far more to it than that.

[Edited 10/9/11 11:18am]

I think you are getting crossed wired. I never said that applesoft was a GUI. I was using both applesoft and xerox as points to prove that Steve Jobs was never an innovator. He was are Marketeer. And a damn good one.

He didn't innovate with a Apples first machine, nor a GUI, more the iphone, nor the ipad. That are all simply improvements in existing designs. That is not inovation.

The ipod was a bigger leap forward than other products, but even then, there were already good USB stick players out and wild.

I think its a pointless agruement. Its clear that the cult of Apple blissfully ignore what came before. My best mate is an apple head and he thinks they came up with everything. Everytime I show him what came before. He just goes silent, then changes his tact to words like "better" and "desirable".

Its just like MJ fans.

I'm no Apple hater, I have a 27" i7 imac as my main PC.

Steve jobs was a great marketeer, not a innovator. But lets not take my word for it, try Steve Wozniak, someone far better placed that you and I.

Go to BBC iplayer and watch the "Click" tribute to Stevie Jobs. Wozniak quite clearly points out that Jobs came up with no innovation, and that his strength was in Marketing.

I never said Steve Jobs came up with everything. I even clearly give credit to Alan Kay and his team at Xerox Parc as laying the foundation. That doesn't mean Steve Jobs isn't a visionalry and an innovator. It took what came before him and made it far better than what exisited before. He also had an amazing ability to know what, out of the many things that came before him, were worth persuing and which werent. Comapre Steve Jobs to the executives at Xerox. They owned a GUI based object oriented OS/programming language and didn't even know what they had.

The other part I question about what you've said is how you diminish Steve Jobs the visionary, but want to build up Bill Gates as a visionary because he wrote a new implementation of an existing programming language. That's certainly not visionary.

If you want to say Alan Kay is more of a visionalry than Steve Jobs, I would have less of an argument. After all, Alan Kay drew this concept 40 years ago

[img:$uid]http://edibleapple.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/kay-children.gif[/img:$uid]

Yet Alan Kay gives Steve Jobs all the credit in the world.

Those are the two comptuer people I've listened to and been inspired by the most in my career - Steve Jobs and Alan Kay.