DesireeNevermind said:

Statistically, many people you come in contact with every day is an abuser. The guy at the grocery store, your co-woker, the person sitting next to you on the bus or in the next car....

CALL THE LAW.

No one, gay or straight, deserves to get hit. EVER.

DesireeNevermind said:

i'm sure the alcohol didn't help matters... it never does. still. don't con yourself into thinking it was a misunderstanding.
a misunderstanding is "i thought you were going to pick up the dry cleaning?"

about a year and a half ago I called the cops on the house next door. I stood there at 5 am for 20 minutes debating what I should do listening to the thumps, yelling and sounds of things being knocked over. When I heard her say "don't do that to me" I thought quit being stupid and call 911. all someone has to do is grab a knife in a situation like that and lives are changed forever.

when shit is ignored, it normalizes and makes it acceptable in the minds of the abuser and the one abused, don't you think?

.
[Edited 5/21/09 11:24am]

emm said:

and to society

emm said:

I don't know about acceptable but normal yeah. I think many people have come to expect that men will lose it and get physical or loud or even violent in stressful relationships or situations.

DesireeNevermind said:

It was acceptable for the male race to beat an Afghani woman for showing her eyelids.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

still doing that shit too. but i think that's a lil different in that they think the entire female species is inherently inferior and the property of men. I mean a man over there will beat a woman he doesn't even know and her own man won't do a thing about it. cultural problem. Sheesh lets not go there....thread in and of itself.

DesireeNevermind said:

What's the differenc in giving the entire male species a blank check with weak expectations of their behavior?

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Because I don't think we do that (exuce the entire male species) in Western more economically viable nations. I think Afghanistan is operating under the premise that Allah or Muhammed give them free reign. Here...we know better and won't stand for men acting like savages on a wide scale. We hold them accountable most of the time.


minor spellchecking
[Edited 5/21/09 12:49pm]

DesireeNevermind said:

You labeled wrong male behavior as "normal" and "expected".

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Not me labeling. Me saying that society has come to view this type of behavior from men as normal or expected. Think about how boys are raised as opposed to girls. If boys are rambunctous (sp) or loud then society thinks its normal, part of natural male aggression. If girls behave like that, then society says they need disciplining, its not lady like, girls gone wild etc. We don't go to extremes like many Muslim dominated countries and try and stifle female social development and self-awareness nor do we punish girls for being extroverts which is why i don't equate how Western men as a whole behave with Afghan men. We have evolved as a nation and they have yet to catch up IMO.

Also, even though our society may expect wrong behavior of men and even think it normal under some circumstances, we draw lines and do hold men accountable when they break the law e.g. beat the crap out of someone else.
There are things men could do 50 years ago that just wouldn't fly in today's culture.

DesireeNevermind said:

Where do you draw the line then? This whole thread is about excuses to do nothing and that's cloaked in "normal expectations".

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

This WHOLE thread is NOT about excuses or excusing bad behavior. Its about recognizing it and acting appropriately...at least that's what I thought.

I personally draw the line between out and out violence and non-violence. Killing a woman for going to school or beating her for showing her eyelids is not the same as yelling at your girlfriend to pull her pants up cuz people can see her thong or grounding your daughter for being slutty at school. Culturally, the USA is vastly different from Afghanistan. Here, women are not fully equal but they have much more freedom, value and respect than they do in many other parts of the world.

We are diverting a bit here i think. Back to the situation. What allegedly happened is alleged cuz my neighbor says it was not that serious even though someone else says he looked beat up. I will not get involved based on a he said-she said but since I suspect that he is lying to protect his boyfriend, I will keep my eyes and ears open and certainly intervene when I recognize that violence is occurring. Thats the best I can do.


How the heck did we start talking about Afghan women in the first place? What's that to do with my gay neighbors?

DesireeNevermind said:

Your original post:



I took this to mean you heard it yourself and saw bruises yourself.

Afghanistan was just an illustration of "normal expectations" of men. If we are as a culture turning the other way and doing nothing because of "normal expectations" when a man is acting wrong, then what is the difference? You're still giving men license to ill and sanctioning that with your own mindset and beliefs about what if "expected" of a man.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:[quote]

DesireeNevermind said:

Nope, if you read back. I wasn't home. My neighbor told me about it later. My thinking is why were the cops called in because there was too much noise at an unreasonable hour versus calling them in on a straight domestic violence issue. So in that regard, yes your are right in that people sanction bad behavior or at least my neighbors did.

Now if I had heard and seen myself I would have just told the cops that it sounds like someone is being hurt. I've seen bruises in the past yes but he does kickboxing, or normally goes anyway, so bruises are not uncommon. The bruises he has now are not from kickboxing cuz they are too new and he hasn't gone for awhile. Can I call the cops based on the bruises? I don't think so. He's a grown man. He will deny they are anything other than sports injuries I'm sure. I can, however, be aware if and when there is another altercation.