Arif Mardin: In Conversation
Posted: 2003-10-01

By Todd R. Brown

Arif Mardin is a mover and shaker in the music business, but at age 10, he was the one being shook. “My father was manager of a Turkish bank in Alexandria, Egypt,” Mardin said. “In 1942 we were there; Germans would bomb the city. We would go down to the shelter, and at one point, famous [Field] Marshal Rommel’s army was a few miles away – the famous Battles of El Alamein. I remember those vividly.”

Mardin survived and went on to work in New York for Atlantic Records, enjoying one of the most illustrious behind-the-scenes careers in the music business. He helped to create such hits as Roberta Flack’s “Where Is The Love,” Aretha Franklin’s “Respect,” Average White Band’s “Pick Up The Pieces,” the Bee Gees’ “Jive Talkin’” and the Rent original-cast soundtrack, among many others. He also has produced plenty of jazz, including platters for Charles Lloyd, Eddie Harris, Sonny Stitt, Freddie Hubbard, Max Roach, Herbie Mann, the Modern Jazz Quartet, Regina Carter and, most recently, Dianne Reeves’ A Little Moonlight for Blue Note Records.

Also for Blue Note, Mardin in 2002 worked his magic for an unknown singer and pianist from New York by way of Texas. The result was Norah Jones’ Come Away With Me, which earned Mardin four Grammys, including for Producer of the Year, bringing his collection to 11. Currently Mardin is working on Jones’ follow-up disc as well as his memoirs, beginning with his birth in Istanbul, Turkey, in 1932; through his years at Berklee College of Music in Boston on the Quincy Jones Scholarship; and detailing his storied career at Atlantic, from 1963 to 2001. Today he works for EMI, which owns Blue Note.

I spoke with Mardin by phone a few days after the Northeast blackout, talking about the “lost” Norah Jones album, the place of jazz in top-40 music and how a hardcore jazz-snob got turned on to rock.

All About Jazz: You produced Norah Jones’ Come Away with Me. Did you expect Jones’ breakthrough success in a marketplace that seems more dominated by quick-hit teen pop and hip hop?

Arif Mardin: No. We were so proud of the album, and we went with the flow. We were hoping for some modest sales, and then look out for the next album, build the artist, but…this heartfelt music reached so many people, especially after 9-11. Maybe we have awakened sort of an untapped segment of the audience who actually – rather than download – go to the store and buy records. When I go to Norah Jones concerts, you have 10-, 12-year-old, young people to 80-year-old grandmas. It’s just an incredible phenomenon.

AAJ: Was it your idea to have [guitarist] Bill Frisell play on the disc?

AM: No. The story of the album is that Craig Street, who produces Cassandra Wilson, produced the album, and Bill Frisell was on some of the songs. When Blue Note and Norah thought that the album was too guitar-oriented, which went away from the original demo-feel – more piano and straight-ahead vocal – they asked me to re-record the whole thing, except that some of the songs that Craig produced remained. Bill is playing on one of them.

AAJ: What was the original conception of the album; how did the two versions differ?

AM: The original demos were like the album which is out now. It was sparse and piano-oriented. But the album that was not used was a lot of guitars.

AAJ: So there’s a whole alternate guitar-album out there somewhere?

AM: Right [laughs].

AAJ: Is that ever going to see light?

AM: I don’t think so.

AAJ: Do you consider Jones a jazz artist?

AM: Yes, especially in spirit. I mean “The Nearness of You” is fantastic – a jazz ballad. She does a Duke Ellington song, it will be in the [next] album, called “Melancholia,” and she wrote the lyrics, fantastic lyrics. She has the spirit also of a jazz album-artist. She definitely is an improviser; I heard her play Bach songs and things like that. She also is at home with folk or countryish songs.

AAJ: Are you working on the new album with her?

AM: Yes, we have started [for Blue Note]. We’re going to [record] again in maybe a month or two.

AAJ: You also just produced a Dianne Reeves album.

AM: Yes, she has an incredible album. Her rhythm section [is] Peter Martin on piano, Reuben Rogers on bass and Gregory Hutchinson on drums. Then we have Romero Lubambo on guitar – Brazilian – on a few tracks and Nicholas Payton playing trumpet on “You Go to My Head,” just a fabulous duet with Dianne [and rhythm].

AAJ: It sounds like a great band.

AM: They play to enhance the music. They don’t want to shine, themselves. The solos aren’t long. All the music they played is to support and make songs memorable. I’m known as an arranger and a producer who loves to add stuff, more strings, more horns, and this “less is more.” It’s fantastic.

AAJ: I understand people didn’t expect the success of Norah Jones. Does that change the way you hope to market Dianne Reeves? Do you think she could have a similar breakthrough?

AM: I think this album is going to be very successful. The singing is so direct. I think Dianne definitely is wearing the crown of Sarah Vaughan. This album is so fantastic; her every note, it makes sense. With “Skylark” you feel like you’re up there with the birds looking down into the meadows. A great version of “Lullaby of Broadway” – everybody usually goes [uptempo, but] this is about the sadness of chorus girls. She sings it slowly; it’s so beautiful. I mean really, really she outdid herself.

[At] the beginning of summer, she appeared at Alice Tully Hall at Lincoln Center. My wife and I and [Blue Note president] Bruce Lundvall, we all went to the concert, and she was singing songs from the album. It was so personal, we were kind of devastated, it was so lovely and feeling.

AAJ: Norah Jones seems like a breath of fresh air for a lot of listeners. What is the difference between pop music and art, and where does jazz, from Charles Lloyd and Sonny Stitt, both of whom you’ve worked with, and Norah Jones and Dianne Reeves more recently, fit in?

AM: I’m looking at the young people today playing, dedicated musicians. Instead of going to lucrative pop music or whatever, they play in small clubs and they just play the music they love. I hope there [is] more of an awakening of jazz with the people because obviously the sales of jazz records aren’t as big as pop records.

AAJ: It’s just a fraction of the industry total. How can that market be improved, how can artists be exposed to young people?

AM: Well, you have some examples [such as] Diana Krall. Maybe great videos, some concerts…I don’t know.

AAJ: Some people feel worried that jazz is headed toward a nostalgic, kind of museum-piece future.

AM: You have a point there, but when an artist [such as] Dianne interprets songs, and you get into the lyrics, it’s back to incredible, Billie Holiday time, or even – she was not a jazz singer, but – Edith Piaf. You get into the meat of the song, and she’s acting out the persona. I worked with Bette Midler for many years, and I learned her craft, her art, that she becomes the person. When she would do a vocal, she would think, “Shall I be that person, shall I be this person?” Then she would latch on to the persona of what the songwriter is trying to say. Dianne is doing that.

Also I think it’s a matter of education. Today young pop-music and hip-hop have very little to do with jazz. The basis of jazz is improvisation and freedom. If the musician is a mediocre jazz artist and the solos go on and on and on, you bore the people. But if you have a stellar instrumentalist, and he gives you an incredible solo, it will touch hearts. You see, we have to really lift the level of musicianship a little bit.

AAJ: Speaking of great musicians, you worked on Charles Lloyd’s Dreamweaver in 1966, with Cecil McBee, Jack DeJohnette and Keith Jarrett. That was a pretty “New Thing,” Coltrane-style kind of record. With Jones and Reeves, they play more conventional, verse-chorus-verse songs and standards. Do you follow the avant-garde versus neo-classical controversy among jazz musicians?

“I was totally 'jazz.' I shunned all kinds of rock or pop music. When they paired me…with The Young Rascals...the first record we made became number one, so I said, 'Maybe I should concentrate on this.”

AM: No, but at the same time, I’ll give you an example: The “Skylark” arrangement for Dianne Reeves. It’s a departure from the original chord changes, but at the same time, the feeling is there and the melody is always supported by new harmonies – but it’s not distracting. It is slightly avant-garde, but at the same time, it’s beautiful. Sometimes you will have ultra-, ultra-different chords piled upon each other, and, if the object is to be totally avant-garde and…devoid of melody, well maybe that’s sort of a Stravinsky-like approach. But if you’re playing a song, you have to also be a little true to the original melody.

AAJ: You worked with Ofra Haza [on 1989’s Desert Wind].

AM: Yes. She’s Israeli, but she came from Yemenite Israeli, so she spoke Arabic too. Wonderful woman. She brought in some kind of desert tradition.

AAJ: Do you listen to a lot of world-fusion jazz?

AM: A little bit, not too much. When I travel to Istanbul, because I have an apartment there – I come from Turkey originally – you turn on the radio and you hear a lot of interesting ethnic music.

AAJ: Some of your work, such as “Good Lovin’,” Aretha Franklin’s “Respect” [from Franklin’s 1967 album, I Never Loved a Man the Way I Love You, on which Mardin worked as arranger] and Average White Band’s Cut the Cake, is considered classic. Other albums, such as your work with Hall & Oates, Culture Club or Phil Collins – people don’t accord them the same kind of time-tested character. How do you assess the fickle trends in top-40 music?

AM: Well…I think the strength of the song is more important. I don’t know if that is a factor. Today it is more like a handsome, young man or a very pretty, sexy, young lady dancing well and relying on videos and effects. Some of them, their voices may be pretty, but they are out of tune in many places, and they are being corrected by computer software. That’s what we call today’s pop music. It’s really not an advancement at all. Top 40 of the ’60s and ’70s and ’80s were totally different. [But] I’m not a person who says, “Those were the good, ol’ days,” because in the ’70s, ’80s I used to use synthesizers. Today a lot of people say, “Let’s record analog.” Fine, if the artist is really keen about that, fine, but give me Pro Tools anytime, because it makes my life easier. The conversions, analog-to-digital, are so much better now, that digital sounds very sweet. I remember in 1987 or ’90, I was recording with the Bee Gees, and we had one of the first digital multi-tracks, and the sound was terrible, very brittle. It’s not like that today.

AAJ: You worked with the Bee Gees in the ’70s also, you did “Jive Talkin’,” which was a huge, smash hit.

AM: Right, but that was kind of state-of-the-art technology too.

AAJ: Some people worry that was the end of the artist-driven music market and the beginning of the producer-driven scene. Then the ’80s came along, and it was sort of a dark age for pop music, with payola in the industry…

AM: [Laughs.]

AAJ: …and overproduced, out-of-touch music, whereas jazz-rock and punk rock were pushed underground.

AM: In the and ’80s I was very happy to work with Chaka Khan for example. We made great records. [Mardin produced 1979’s Chaka Khan, featuring “I’m Every Woman,” and 1984’s I Feel for You.] Again that was sort of a state-of-the-art fusion of rap and synthesizers. But the drummer was playing drums!

AAJ: That’s real, organic drumming and not a synth drum?

AM: Excuse me, that was a drum machine. I will be giving a speech in October at the AES [Audio Engineering Society] Convention, and it is about, will technology replace the artist? I’m going to say that technology is great, you can’t stop it, because people will invent new devices, new machines all the time. It is, in whose hands the technology will be, because you can use the technology to great advantage, or you can manufacture an artist, a singer from nothing. Those are the points that you have to weigh.

AAJ: Hindsight is 20/20 of course, but is Norah Jones a kind of penance for Boy George?

AM: Whoa. What did I do with Boy George?

AAJ: Some people would think he’s sort of one of those produced artists who isn’t relevant today.

AM: No, no, totally wrong. Boy George belongs to the punk generation. I remember, when we were doing vocals, he did one vocal, right? I said, “Can I have another one?” Because I would like to take maybe a good verse from another take. He said, “Why?” I said, “For insurance.” [He said,] “You think I’m going to die?” He refused to give me another vocal. So whatever he sang, it was one take. He definitely was not a manufactured person.

AAJ: You’re working on your memoirs?

AM: I am. It’s a little slow, but I have four chapters finished and maybe [three more] chapters outlined. It’s slow: correcting, looking at my old scrapbooks, putting photographs together and things like that.

AAJ: Can you give us a taste of what you’ll talk about?

AM: It will be nothing but music and anecdotes and jokes. I don’t know artists’ sex lives; I’m not involved with what they do after the studio. There will be no tabloid kind of thing. It’s going to be music history, who played what; also my early life in Turkey, how I was brought up, and early jazz activities.

AAJ: What would be your most memorable moment in the studio? Whom do you remember best, working with?

AM: There are so many great moments. Definitely with “I’m Every Woman,” we had a feeling that this is going to be great. Of course any session with Aretha Franklin, I would go home and tell my wife: “You weren’t there. She sang incredible stuff.”

AAJ: Do you have any plans to work with her or any other of those artists again?

AM: Usually it happens. We always talk to each other on the phone. Being a producer my relationship with artists, it’s always like family. [Aretha] picks up the phone and asks advice, this and that. We did work much later, when she was with Arista. So if she calls me, I’ll work [laughs].

AAJ: Speaking of family, you have a son and a daughter?

AM: Yes, Joe and Julie. Joe is a producer-arranger-orchestrator, and he’s working on many, many projects. Julie is an avant-garde artist; she creates imagery…she used to do it in the dark room, now she’s scanning stuff. She creates visual art, usually it’s about toys that promote war or violence against women and children. She’s a very driven, young lady.

My wife [Latife] also writes novels. She’s been in top-10 in Turkey. They’re all historical novels, 19th century. She writes in English, and it’s translated back into Turkish. She has a very interesting system.

AAJ: You did Smokey Joe’s Café [in 1995 with the original Broadway cast]. That was a Lieber-Stoller [review]?

AM: Yes. It was their life’s work actually, and it was a musical review on Broadway. We all got a Grammy for that.

AAJ: I heard the song [“Smokey Joe’s Café”] by the Robins, who became the Coasters, in a Brendan Fraser movie set in the ’50s, and I thought it was really catchy, and I got the album and realized almost all their songs were by Lieber and Stoller.

AM: Yes. The Coasters were fantastic. That’s just a few years before my time, before I joined Atlantic Records. Coasters were probably recorded ’58. I was in Berklee College of Music at that time, and joined Atlantic in ’63.

AAJ: So you heard it on the radio, but you weren’t working with…?

AM: I never listened to that kind of music; I was totally “jazz.” I shunned all kinds of rock or pop music.

AAJ: So how did you open up your ears to other music?

AM: When I was hired by [A&R chief at] Atlantic Nesuhi Ertegun, a true jazz fan and a great guy, I was working in the studio as an assistant, and really watching him produce jazz records – MJQ, Herbie Mann. When they paired me and Tom Dowd, a great engineer and my mentor, with The Young Rascals, I was a novice. The first record we made became number one, so I said, “Maybe I should concentrate on this.” So that was like, jazz-to-back-burner a little bit, but not too much, because I still worked with jazz artists at that time.

AAJ: Eddie Harris had huge hits in the ’60s [Mardin produced The Electrifying Eddie Harris with its hit single “Listen Here” in 1967], and Charles Lloyd played at the Fillmore Auditorium [when the club was dominated by psychedelic-rock acts], Laura Nyro played on a bill with Miles Davis…

AM: Yeah, I worked with her.

AAJ: …so that was maybe just a time when promoters put together more colorful bills.

AM: This gives me a good idea, that we should really pursue that.

----

Interview With Producer Arif Mardin -- Part 1


Author: Janie Ross Coulter
Published on: July 28, 2000
Related Subject(s): Mardin, Arif -- Interviews , Sound recording executives and producers -- Interviews , Popular music -- Writing and publishing

Arif Mardin is recognized as the consummate record producer. Some of those with whom he works are Aretha Franklin, Barbra Streisand, Bette Midler, Diana Ross, Whitney Houston, Chaka Khan, Brandy, Carly Simon, Roberta Flack, Patti Labelle, and Jewel. And those are just a few of the females! For balance, let me add the Bee Gees, Ringo Starr, Phil Collins, Michael McDonald, and Willie Nelson…

Mardin is senior vice president of Atlantic Records, although his deal with Atlantic allows him to produce with other labels as well. He has produced hit after hit for over thirty-five years. Born in Istanbul, Turkey, Mardin started in the U.S as the first recipient of the Quincy Jones scholarship at the Berklee College of Music in Boston. He soon joined Atlantic as assistant to Nesuhi Ertegun, which led to positions there as studio manager, house producer and arranger, and since 1969, vice president.

Some of those hits of his include “I Feel For You” (sung by Chaka Khan), “Wind Beneath My Wings” (Bette Midler), “Jive Talkin’” (Bee Gees), “Pick Up The Pieces” (Average White Band), “Against All Odds” (Phil Collins), and “Good Lovin’” (The Young Rascals). Mardin has received more than forty gold and platinum albums and six Grammys. He was inducted into the National Academy Of Recording Arts And Sciences Hall Of Fame in 1990. No wonder.

Mardin also composes. His writing ranges from songs with Chaka Khan to, more recently, several art songs. His one-act opera, I Will Wait, was performed last year in New York City.

I spoke to him by phone about his take on the art and business of songwriting and production:

JC: What is the typical process you go through to produce a song – for example, who comes to whom?

MARDIN: Usually publishers or songwriters I know send me songs, and, in some instances, I call the songwriter and say “Do you have something for this artist,” or “I’d like you to write a song for this situation, this life situation.”

JC: Do you have a core of songwriters that you call on?

MARDIN: Yes, many. Diane Warren, Steve Dorff, you know, all the well-known songwriters. They’re good friends of mine as well. Another way is that the artist writes the song. I think that the most important situation is to marry the song to the artist. It can be a fabulous song, but it may not match the image or even the musical style of the artist. Of course, sometimes, musical styles can be changed. You can take a country song and make it R&B. So that’s the [song selection] process. Then comes finding the setting for the jewel--the arrangement, the kind of instrumentation that will showcase the song. Preproduction for me is very important. I have to have the right key for the song, the key for the artist that would be… not comfortable. I don’t like comfort in keys. It has to have an edge. If the artist would like to sing it in b flat, I’d say, “Could we try b,” that kind of thing. After we’ve settled on the preproduction--the length of the song, the form, how many bars for the intro and interlude-- if it’s the sort of song that needs to be arranged on a piece of paper, like the last Barbra Streisand song I did, well, I sharpen my pencil and start writing on a score pad, a complete arrangement with the violins, woodwinds, etc. If it’s the Pop style of today, I work with an arranger/programmer. I am very hands-on. I come from an arranging background, so I can say try this chord here…

JC: Do you ever consult a songwriter during or after production?

MARDIN: Sure. In fact, there could be changes requested either by the artist or myself. “This line doesn’t really suit the story,” or “I can’t say this line because this doesn’t really make sense to me.” Sometimes they don’t really want to change the line. But most of them do because they want to see it happen.

JC: You write, too. How does that affect the way you approach a production?

MARDIN: It broadens my scope. I know how hard it is, the process to create a song. I appreciate the labor, the creativity.

JC: How influenced are you by what’s extremely current on the charts, in terms of the sounds that you use?

MARDIN: First of all, I don’t copy. I don’t steal, but I definitely listen all the time, not only to top 10 U.S., but England and world music. The other day I was listening to an NPR station, an Algerian girl singing in Arabic. I was interested because the arrangement was fantastic, and I ordered the record. Of course, sometimes, grooves change--it can be like the soup de jour. It’s very dangerous to lock into some groove that will be passé in six months. And if the record is not going to be released that quickly, that’s a dilemma.

JC: Are there production rules for different markets?

MARDIN: Sure. If you have a certain R&B song sung by an Afro-American, you don’t put steel guitars in there. For a big film theme, we’re talking about big strings and backgrounds. Production values definitely change according to what segment of the record-buying public the producer is targeting.

JC: What do you think about that?

MARDIN: Oh, it has to be. Maybe it’s not right. Maybe it should be just one arrangement for one song. But it’s like you have different television commercials for different markets.

JC: I sometimes wonder whether it limits that particular audience, because then they only hear one thing.

MARDIN: Don’t forget, we make different mixes, too, for different radio stations. And then a beautiful ballad is turned into a dance number by a dance mixer. They’re going to try to maximize the different markets.

JC: Do you think that a great song can be produced in any style?

MARDIN: Any style. Definitely.

JC: You just did the Rent and Smokey Joe's cast albums. In the 50s, the songs that were on Broadway were also the Pop hits. Do you think shows like Rent are bridging the gap we have now between Pop and Broadway?

MARDIN: Hopefully. Rent proved to be a very successful musical, not just on Broadway but also the cast album sales. I wish there were more shows like Rent, with songs that are written for the plot but also stand on their own. Now it’s more costumes and incredible sets, and hardly any songs. I mean apart from some great composers like Sondheim, people aren’t interested anymore in writing a hit song that could actually be taken out and recorded by someone else. That happens more in films, like Celine Dion in Titanic. Films are more Pop radio-friendly, obviously. But musicals are difficult.

JC: What do you respect in a song?

MARDIN: Definitely honesty, meaning honest feeling. It has to hit me in the chest. I cannot describe it. You cannot computerize it.


Interview With Producer Arif Mardin -- Part 2


Author: Janie Ross Coulter
Published on: September 1, 2000
Related Subject(s): Mardin, Arif -- Interviews , Motion picture producers and directors -- Interviews , Popular music -- Writing and publishing

Continued from Part 1.

Arif Mardin is recognized as the consummate record producer. Some of those with whom he works are Aretha Franklin, Barbra Streisand, Bette Midler, Diana Ross, Whitney Houston, Chaka Khan, Brandy, Carly Simon, Roberta Flack, Patti Labelle, and Jewel. And those are just a few of the females! For balance, let me add the Bee Gees, Ringo Starr, Phil Collins, Michael McDonald, and Willie Nelson…

Mardin is senior vice president of Atlantic Records, although his deal with Atlantic allows him to produce with other labels as well. He has produced hit after hit for over thirty-five years. Born in Istanbul, Turkey, Mardin started in the U.S as the first recipient of the Quincy Jones scholarship at the Berklee College of Music in Boston. He soon joined Atlantic as assistant to Nesuhi Ertegun, which led to positions there as studio manager, house producer and arranger, and since 1969, vice president.

Some of those hits of his include “I Feel For You” (sung by Chaka Khan), “Wind Beneath My Wings” (Bette Midler), “Jive Talkin’” (Bee Gees), “Pick Up The Pieces” (Average White Band), “Against All Odds” (Phil Collins), and “Good Lovin’” (The Young Rascals). Mardin has received more than forty gold and platinum albums and six Grammys. He was inducted into the National Academy Of Recording Arts And Sciences Hall Of Fame in 1990. No wonder.

Mardin also composes. His writing ranges from songs with Chaka Khan to, more recently, several art songs. His one-act opera, I Will Wait, was performed last year in New York City.

I spoke to him by phone about his take on the art and business of songwriting and production:

JC: Do you find that it’s difficult to find well-crafted lyrics now, or is that also a timeless thing?

MARDIN: Maybe people don’t care anymore for… I mean, we’re not talking about “you’re the top, you’re the Coliseum.” That’s gone. That’s just looking at a beautiful Art Deco building and admiring it for what it was. Now it doesn’t even have to be a rhyme, but a sound. There are so many ways of deriving hidden rhymes--or certain sounds repeating. My advice to a songwriter is do what you think is best. Don’t follow trends. Of course if a young songwriter wants to pay the rent and be commercial, you can still follow what’s happening. But don’t copy, for heaven’s sake. Young people should be prepared for rejections. They have to say, “Okay, that’s gone. Let me go ahead.” And don’t be discouraged.

JC: How do you think an undiscovered songwriter can truly get someone’s ear, can really be heard?

MARDIN: I don’t know. That’s very difficult. I think it has to be through someone. I don’t accept unsolicited demos because there’s always the fear of being sued two years later--someone saying, “You had access to my song and you used it. “

JC: So it only would come through a publisher?

MARDIN: It has to be a publisher or a lawyer or a manager. The young songwriter has to go through another person. Definitely.

JC: How political is song selection for an artist?

MARDIN: Political is the wrong word. We’re talking about if the artist has written three songs herself, those will probably be in the album. That’s the obvious. Then you would have maybe two equally good songs, and one songwriter is the artist’s friend, the other an unknown. The artist would obviously say, “Let’s put my friend’s song in.” I don’t think politics is involved, because, after all, we are in this business of trying to sell records and being successful. If by cronyism we endanger the record’s success, that’s not right. Nobody does that. We’re all there for one journey, to make the project successful.

JC: There’s so much emphasis placed on demo production for new songwriter. How produced should a demo be?

MARDIN: If I hear just a piano and a vocal, that would be enough for me, because I don’t want to be influenced. Some people would like the song to be presented on a platter. And that means that the songwriter would like the song to be done that way, that maybe that’s the most maximized way. However, there may be a totally different way of doing that song. Just do what you think is integral to the song. What the songwriter thinks is important for the song, that would be the blueprint for me. A simple drum machine, so we know what the tempo is going to be. The simplest demo, with the essentials in it, would be, for me, ideal. But some people would like to have the arrangement prepared. The more they go into production [of a demo], the more I think rejection becomes sort of a heartbreak. It also leads to many financial and credit problems. If the songwriter presents the song in a certain way and the producer takes it exactly and gives credit to the second programmer as an arranger, that’s not right. But these things can be ironed out.

JC: How do you see the music business changing in the next five years?

MARDIN: Technology. We’re seeing it happen, with the Internet, web sites. There are going to be monumental changes. Every engineer talks about all the new things that are going to happen. There was a sci-fi short story in the 60s, where instead of buying records, people buy a pill. When they swallow the pill, they hear the music; it’s a biological record. They hear the music through their entire body. If they drink a little wine, the music becomes faster. If they eat spicy food…who knows? There’s going to be incredible stuff happening.

JC: Is there any music in particular that inspires you?

MARDIN: I’m a true jazz fan – of the actual, real jazz. Also I’m a fan of extremely modern music-- 20th century music, all kinds of dissonances. I love that. At the same time, I work with people like Willie Nelson, because that’s honest American music. My tastes go from one end to the other, and I love every aspect of it.

JC: Do you have certain recordings that you prize above all others?

MARDIN: Yes, I do, I do. Some of the Aretha Franklin records; some of my arrangements. Chaka Khan, especially “I Feel For You” and “A Night In Tunisia.” Bette Midler, “Wind Beneath My Wings.’’ The list goes on, I guess…

Three names...

Donny

Roberta

Aretha