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Forums > Music: Non-Prince > Another TTD Topic- Symphony Or Damn Appreciation
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Reply #30 posted 11/15/19 1:10pm

jfenster

RobotFix said:

Symphony or Damn is irrefutable proof that his creativity is inexhaustible and equal to that of his peers. In fact, his entire body of work is incredible.

only one who could come as close as possible to Prince

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Reply #31 posted 11/15/19 2:03pm

Fenwick

jfenster said:

Fenwick said:

Aside from him being as good as Prince, I agree with this lock stock. I think the fact that he has decided to produce and record everything by himself has dramatically hurt the likability of his recent output.


His voice is from the Gods. But his musicianship is, average, if I'm being generous. I think the reason his first five albums are golden is because he was surrounded by top shelf musicians, taking his songs to a greater plain.


Now - most of what he creates is flat, lifeless arrangements of songs that could be so much better if he was surrounded by an all star cast.


Not necessarily meant as a sharp critique. I think it's fanstastic that he's an artist's artist doing things his own way. But the songs unquestionably suffer the process.....

so u think his later output with better production and band members would make the songs better????


No question. Angels and Vampires is a double disc set of songs that could be MUCH, MUCH better if he had a competent band behind him. Not saying it can turn bunk into Mozart. But it's undeniable that pretty much any song with even the slightest bit of worth can be elevated to higher levels by and with master craft musicians.

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Reply #32 posted 11/16/19 10:06am

jfenster

Fenwick said:

jfenster said:

so u think his later output with better production and band members would make the songs better????


No question. Angels and Vampires is a double disc set of songs that could be MUCH, MUCH better if he had a competent band behind him. Not saying it can turn bunk into Mozart. But it's undeniable that pretty much any song with even the slightest bit of worth can be elevated to higher levels by and with master craft musicians.

i guess its because he had no major label behinfd him..sucks

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Reply #33 posted 11/16/19 6:40pm

Germanegro

I don't know what you 2 folks are talking about. Angels and Vampires consists of great music and nice songs--LOL. I listen to the discussed music differently, I guess.

>

I bet that Lenny Kravitz and his competent band could do a decent cover of Symphony or Damn's "She Kissed Me," if Kravitz or some other "plantation worker"--Prince called Kravitz that, once-- wanted to offer some kind of tribute to Sananda.

>

I saw something like that--well, not quite--some guy on the street playing "What Can I Do." If he were to get a following and crowdfund a recording like many artists of today do, he could record Sananda's song, and I'm sure that Sananda would appreciate the kind acknowledgement and royalty support!

>

I wonder if Sananda would feature covers of his songs on his website? At the least I imagine he'd put the link to such a recording on there. That'd be cool.

cool

jfenster said:

Fenwick said:


No question. Angels and Vampires is a double disc set of songs that could be MUCH, MUCH better if he had a competent band behind him. Not saying it can turn bunk into Mozart. But it's undeniable that pretty much any song with even the slightest bit of worth can be elevated to higher levels by and with master craft musicians.

i guess its because he had no major label behinfd him..sucks

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Reply #34 posted 11/17/19 8:40am

Fenwick

Germanegro said:

I don't know what you 2 folks are talking about. Angels and Vampires consists of great music and nice songs--LOL. I listen to the discussed music differently, I guess.

>

I bet that Lenny Kravitz and his competent band could do a decent cover of Symphony or Damn's "She Kissed Me," if Kravitz or some other "plantation worker"--Prince called Kravitz that, once-- wanted to offer some kind of tribute to Sananda.

>

I saw something like that--well, not quite--some guy on the street playing "What Can I Do." If he were to get a following and crowdfund a recording like many artists of today do, he could record Sananda's song, and I'm sure that Sananda would appreciate the kind acknowledgement and royalty support!

>

I wonder if Sananda would feature covers of his songs on his website? At the least I imagine he'd put the link to such a recording on there. That'd be cool.

cool

jfenster said:

i guess its because he had no major label behinfd him..sucks

@ Fenster - I personally don't think it has anything to do with the label aspect. I think it is his personal artisitic preference to do it all himself. (Obviously I could be wrong).

@ German - Yeah bud - we definitely listen to music differently. When I listen to an album like Symphony, or even Wildcard, I hear some master class studio cats taking some really good material to a higher place. The production is perfect. (Even if all the songs aren't).


When I listen to Angels, I hear a guy severly boxed in by his very limited musical abilities trying to put together an album of material all by himself. It's clear as day to me without question. So our ears just hear what they want to I guess.


Again, I'm not lowering the boom at Sananda. I'm happy he's blazing his own trail. But to this fan's ears, his decisions have dramatically hurt the listenability of the tunes.

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Reply #35 posted 11/18/19 8:13pm

Germanegro

Yo, Fenwick--It's nice to know that you're not trying to be like some individuals on the org who post negative comments in order to catch eyes. However, when people visit a thread like this to read on and discuss their enjoyment of an artist's specific album, then unceremoniously break into criticisms such as this talk of recruiting master-craft musicians to raise levels of craft and such, surely, potshots are being taken at an artist's choices that are underappreciated--highly opinionated. The guy does incorporate other musicians on a song when he needs them; not as many or as frequently as you might like, undoubtedly.

>

After listening to various musical genres utilizing different production values, expressing different ideas and emotions, what I hear in Sananda Maitreya's "Post Millenium Rock"--these half-dozen post-Wildcard albums--are expressions by one who is realizing his vision and idiosyncratic sound. You're wishing that he might recapture some kind of past vision, I feel.

>

Between Wildcard and Angels & Vampires listening, I enjoy them both but find myself listening to A & V more, because of the range of feelings and different ideas that are covered in those tunes. That contains valule, although it might bore you against the love of the master musician.

>

Like I've said here earlier, those Symphony or Damn songs that Sananda plays with his band today among his current output are sounding fine on the stage, and that is something that he can take to the bank. Of course people may want to interpret or enhance SM's PMR output with their "master-craft" band. One day they may have a shot put their spin on his stuff like what SM does with The Beatles' tunes--perhaps done by people who are reading this now! That would be nice, and I hold enthusiasm that some day such efforts may materialize.

>

Fenwick said:

Germanegro said:

I don't know what you 2 folks are talking about. Angels and Vampires consists of great music and nice songs--LOL. I listen to the discussed music differently, I guess.

>

I bet that Lenny Kravitz and his competent band could do a decent cover of Symphony or Damn's "She Kissed Me," if Kravitz or some other "plantation worker"--Prince called Kravitz that, once-- wanted to offer some kind of tribute to Sananda.

>

I saw something like that--well, not quite--some guy on the street playing "What Can I Do." If he were to get a following and crowdfund a recording like many artists of today do, he could record Sananda's song, and I'm sure that Sananda would appreciate the kind acknowledgement and royalty support!

>

I wonder if Sananda would feature covers of his songs on his website? At the least I imagine he'd put the link to such a recording on there. That'd be cool.

cool

@ Fenster - I personally don't think it has anything to do with the label aspect. I think it is his personal artisitic preference to do it all himself. (Obviously I could be wrong).

@ German - Yeah bud - we definitely listen to music differently. When I listen to an album like Symphony, or even Wildcard, I hear some master class studio cats taking some really good material to a higher place. The production is perfect. (Even if all the songs aren't).


When I listen to Angels, I hear a guy severly boxed in by his very limited musical abilities trying to put together an album of material all by himself. It's clear as day to me without question. So our ears just hear what they want to I guess.


Again, I'm not lowering the boom at Sananda. I'm happy he's blazing his own trail. But to this fan's ears, his decisions have dramatically hurt the listenability of the tunes.

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Reply #36 posted 11/19/19 6:44am

Fenwick

So let's see - what you're saying is.... my opinions on this topic are basically not welcome by you because I'm not heaping immeasureable praise on said artist's choices over the past 20 years? Go re-read everything I've written. Please tell me where there is anything equivalent to a "pot shot" or "unceremonious criticism".


Who's the one looking to "catch eyes" here? My goodness.....


Despite my instincts to write a longer post, I'm not going to engage you in this further. You're a stranger on the internet and not worth my time. If Sananda wants to change his name, go off label, move to Italy, and only release independent productions of songs/albums that sound more like garage band music than polished works via his own web site, ALL OF THAT is entirely his prerogative. Good for him. Go blaze your trail and make the artistic choices that make yourself happy.


At the same time, it is entirely my prerogative to make note of his productions after all of these changes and decide whether or not I like them as much as his previous efforts. Think about it. I could just as easily say I find your critique of my observations to be an unceremoniously unwelcome highly opinionated pot shot.


Good day to you.

Germanegro said:

Yo, Fenwick--It's nice to know that you're not trying to be like some individuals on the org who post negative comments in order to catch eyes. However, when people visit a thread like this to read on and discuss their enjoyment of an artist's specific album, then unceremoniously break into criticisms such as this talk of recruiting master-craft musicians to raise levels of craft and such, surely, potshots are being taken at an artist's choices that are underappreciated--highly opinionated. The guy does incorporate other musicians on a song when he needs them; not as many or as frequently as you might like, undoubtedly.

>

After listening to various musical genres utilizing different production values, expressing different ideas and emotions, what I hear in Sananda Maitreya's "Post Millenium Rock"--these half-dozen post-Wildcard albums--are expressions by one who is realizing his vision and idiosyncratic sound. You're wishing that he might recapture some kind of past vision, I feel.

>

Between Wildcard and Angels & Vampires listening, I enjoy them both but find myself listening to A & V more, because of the range of feelings and different ideas that are covered in those tunes. That contains valule, although it might bore you against the love of the master musician.

>

Like I've said here earlier, those Symphony or Damn songs that Sananda plays with his band today among his current output are sounding fine on the stage, and that is something that he can take to the bank. Of course people may want to interpret or enhance SM's PMR output with their "master-craft" band. One day they may have a shot put their spin on his stuff like what SM does with The Beatles' tunes--perhaps done by people who are reading this now! That would be nice, and I hold enthusiasm that some day such efforts may materialize.

>

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Reply #37 posted 11/26/19 1:45pm

Germanegro

We come toward the issue of Sananda's style and sound from opposing perspectives. Maybe one day other musicians may come forward and accomplish some goal to change the shape of Sananda's "Post Millenium Rock" into some prettier form. What he's been producing has not been to the taste of some listneners, lyrically or sonically, as you've opined. I simply feel inspired to present the view of those who readily support and enjoy hearing that "garage band sound" or however you want to characterize it, to rep an opposing thought on a public forum. Many readers may stop just short of doing that--they don't have the time or will, because hey man, it's only entertainment--but I'm not sorry that I don't.

>

I like his TTD-old-stuff too. Perhaps the future may hold for he himself to form a crack studio band, employ a more polished engineering of recordings, and offer more different songs that the general public can readily enjoy, such as those of his stellar career debut. That'd be cool. I feel that some pretty nice songs exist right now among his "Post Millenium Rock" collection of albums, however. My thought is that more people should check them out. You might actually find a gem or two among them that could fit within the context of the Symphony or Damn collection.

>

You can check the Amazon, Spotify, Itunes, etc streaming platforms as well as on his own website to hear ALL of the TTD/SM stuff.

>

All of our time is precious--a beautiful day to you.

>

Fenwick said:

So let's see - what you're saying is.... my opinions on this topic are basically not welcome by you because I'm not heaping immeasureable praise on said artist's choices over the past 20 years? Go re-read everything I've written. Please tell me where there is anything equivalent to a "pot shot" or "unceremonious criticism".


Who's the one looking to "catch eyes" here? My goodness.....


Despite my instincts to write a longer post, I'm not going to engage you in this further. You're a stranger on the internet and not worth my time. If Sananda wants to change his name, go off label, move to Italy, and only release independent productions of songs/albums that sound more like garage band music than polished works via his own web site, ALL OF THAT is entirely his prerogative. Good for him. Go blaze your trail and make the artistic choices that make yourself happy.


At the same time, it is entirely my prerogative to make note of his productions after all of these changes and decide whether or not I like them as much as his previous efforts. Think about it. I could just as easily say I find your critique of my observations to be an unceremoniously unwelcome highly opinionated pot shot.


Good day to you.

Germanegro said:

Yo, Fenwick--It's nice to know that you're not trying to be like some individuals on the org who post negative comments in order to catch eyes. However, when people visit a thread like this to read on and discuss their enjoyment of an artist's specific album, then unceremoniously break into criticisms such as this talk of recruiting master-craft musicians to raise levels of craft and such, surely, potshots are being taken at an artist's choices that are underappreciated--highly opinionated. The guy does incorporate other musicians on a song when he needs them; not as many or as frequently as you might like, undoubtedly.

>

After listening to various musical genres utilizing different production values, expressing different ideas and emotions, what I hear in Sananda Maitreya's "Post Millenium Rock"--these half-dozen post-Wildcard albums--are expressions by one who is realizing his vision and idiosyncratic sound. You're wishing that he might recapture some kind of past vision, I feel.

>

Between Wildcard and Angels & Vampires listening, I enjoy them both but find myself listening to A & V more, because of the range of feelings and different ideas that are covered in those tunes. That contains valule, although it might bore you against the love of the master musician.

>

Like I've said here earlier, those Symphony or Damn songs that Sananda plays with his band today among his current output are sounding fine on the stage, and that is something that he can take to the bank. Of course people may want to interpret or enhance SM's PMR output with their "master-craft" band. One day they may have a shot put their spin on his stuff like what SM does with The Beatles' tunes--perhaps done by people who are reading this now! That would be nice, and I hold enthusiasm that some day such efforts may materialize.

>

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Reply #38 posted 11/26/19 11:47pm

mediumdry

Just chiming in.. There's a lot to like. Certainly the Symphony Or Damn album. As far as TTD goes, Hardline just is not special enough. It's nice, but doesn't blow my mind. He sure did that with Neither Fish Nor Flesh.

.

After the Solar Return album never came about and it turned into Wildcard and a smattering of songs he sprinkled into his later projects, he moved away from "professional" studios. I am not knocking the guy, but since he became Sananda, his output has a quality to it that, to me, is less professional. It's quite striking to hear "She's My Baby" (from the Symphony Or Damn era) in between his newer songs. It's the recording, the mixing and mastering and, yes, the playing that are of a different standard.

.

Again, not badmouthing Sananda, as some of his songs have beautiful melodies and he can quip marvelous one-liners that seem to come out of nowhere here and there, but Sananda is not an artist of the calibre that TTD was. In his case, he really is a new man, in most every way.

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Reply #39 posted 11/28/19 12:21am

tump

I wish I could find the words where he mentioned how the suits DID restrict what he wanted to do (I read it years ago), but I couldn't be arsed going through years of writings to find it. Ah well.

Germanegro said:

It sure is cool to see Sananda perform some of those fine vintage songs on his stage. The suits were never an influence on his artistic vision, but his dealing with them along his creative journey certainly helped him to move into his current styles, bless his heart! I'm sure there are some young ones ready to step in and follow the spirit of his poetic style, done in the indie spirit that is easier for artists today to grasp.
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Reply #40 posted 11/28/19 8:11am

Germanegro

Here are some words regarding the man's recordings, published last year on the 25th anniversary of Symphony or Damn, on SoundVapors:

>

Interview & 20/20 Review: Sananda Maitreya – Symphony Or Damn

Posted August 24, 2018

>

"So many of the SONGS for ‘Symphony Or Damn’ came to me while hanging out in Florence & Rome. I was seeing a Countess at the time who came from a very old family long known for their patronage of the Arts. And I was visiting lots of museums & partying with good people. This journey produced a lot of songs, which I commenced to begin recording once I got back on my feet & moved to California, where I recorded it in my house in the Hollywood Hills with a great young engineer from Australia, named CRAIG PORTEILS.
>
I recall that recording it was pretty easy & a lot of fun. I was free to do whatever I wanted to do, and being able to roll out of bed in the mornings and STRAIGHT into the Studio was like living in Paradise. And I felt no pressure to follow up the previous album.

It all felt like a dream."

>

https://soundvapors.com/i...y-or-damn/

cool

tump said:

I wish I could find the words where he mentioned how the suits DID restrict what he wanted to do (I read it years ago), but I couldn't be arsed going through years of writings to find it. Ah well.

Germanegro said:

It sure is cool to see Sananda perform some of those fine vintage songs on his stage. The suits were never an influence on his artistic vision, but his dealing with them along his creative journey certainly helped him to move into his current styles, bless his heart! I'm sure there are some young ones ready to step in and follow the spirit of his poetic style, done in the indie spirit that is easier for artists today to grasp.

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Reply #41 posted 11/28/19 3:07pm

Marrk

avatar

kpowers said:

I really loved Introducing the Hardline, Neither Fish nor Flesh, Symphony or Damn. Vibrator has a few good tracks on it. Didn't care for Wildcard and everything after.

Same here. I tried beyond, really did.

Yeah, we'll, we'll try to imagine what silence looks like.
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