MickyDolenz said:

I wonder if the music of streaming era artists really have any value in the future that owning masters mean anything. Unlike baby boomers buying Sgt. Pepper & Dark Side Of The Moon over and over when new versions come out. I don't see 30 years from now that there will be deluxe CD box sets of Maroon 5, Jonas Brothers, or Drake. The only reason the masters of pre-internet artists have value is if they were hits or sold a lot. Most records did not. Like if you go to a bad album covers site, the majority are obscure records that few people know. So they have no value no matter who owns the masters, the label or the artist. It's unlikely any company will use songs from those records for advertising their products, nor for movies/TV shows. An act like The Beatles are a brand, that's how they can have Monopoly games, LEGO sets, dolls, pajamas, and other kinds of merchandise.

It seems like The Beatles were the first music act to capitalize on merchandizing their name. I went to The Beatles' museum exhibit that was travelling the world a couple of years ago and I was simply amazed at all the Beatles'-related commercial products that were sold during the '60s.

Empress said:

DaveT said:

F*ck me ... the whole lot of 'em need shoving in a dumpster and rolling off a cliff.

You look at someone like Springsteen whose passion is writing songs that highlight the ups and down of his home nation, and wonder what he thinks of these fools who seem to live to have childish spats over "social media". What an all round sh*t show.

God, I love this and completely agree with DaveT. Mostly, these folks are just spoiled, talentless hacks who for unknown reasons for me have made millions upon millions from mediocre music.

Mediocre to the max

Fortunately I've just had a great weekend watching amazing music from all generations, new and old performers, at Glastonbury ... so I'm not completely depressed about the scene.

I just wish performers like Christine & The Queens, The Cure, Shura, Two Door Cinema Club and the others I enjoyed this weekend got all the column inches that are wasted on these morons ... it would be a million times more deserved.

DaveT said:

Empress said:

DaveT said: God, I love this and completely agree with DaveT. Mostly, these folks are just spoiled, talentless hacks who for unknown reasons for me have made millions upon millions from mediocre music.

Mediocre to the max

Fortunately I've just had a great weekend watching amazing music from all generations, new and old performers, at Glastonbury ... so I'm not completely depressed about the scene.

I just wish performers like Christine & The Queens, The Cure, Shura, Two Door Cinema Club and the others I enjoyed this weekend got all the column inches that are wasted on these morons ... it would be a million times more deserved.

I'm enjoying music festivals with different genres and age groups of music more these days than I used to...

purplethunder3121 said:

DaveT said:

Mediocre to the max

Fortunately I've just had a great weekend watching amazing music from all generations, new and old performers, at Glastonbury ... so I'm not completely depressed about the scene.

I just wish performers like Christine & The Queens, The Cure, Shura, Two Door Cinema Club and the others I enjoyed this weekend got all the column inches that are wasted on these morons ... it would be a million times more deserved.

I'm enjoying music festivals with different genres and age groups of music more these days than I used to...

Glasto has been a god send over the last few years introducing me to new acts I now love ... The XX, Chvrches, Haim, Christine, ... I watch as much of it as I can and thankfully the BBC coverage is fantastic. Even the genres that I don't usually listen to I enjoy.

Was lucky enough to go in 2016 and it was one of the best weeks of my life (we went "posh" and went in a big camper van). If you haven't been I can't recommend it enough.

DaveT said:

You look at someone like Springsteen whose passion is writing songs that highlight the ups and down of his home nation, and wonder what he thinks of these fools who seem to live to have childish spats over "social media".

Celebrities were doing that before there was an internet. Like David Lee Roth/Sammy Hagar/Eddie Van Halen and John Lennon talking about Paul McCartney in his song How Do You Sleep. There's also Roger Waters vs the other members of Pink Floyd. There was the fued between actresses Bette Davis & Joan Crawford. The only difference is that social media is seen by more people and there wasn't near as many outlets for entertainment news or news period.

[Edited 7/2/19 15:05pm]

purplethunder3121 said:

It seems like The Beatles were the first music act to capitalize on merchandizing their name. I went to The Beatles' museum exhibit that was travelling the world a couple of years ago and I was simply amazed at all the Beatles'-related commercial products that were sold during the '60s.

It was interesting that the Rolling Stones were seen as the cool group, but they did a commercial for Rice Krispies in the early 1960s. The Fabs refused to do advertise stuff including Coca Cola.

getxxxx said:

Taylor’s dad, Scott Swift, was a shareholder in Big Machine Records, LLC. We first alerted all of the shareholders on Thursday, June 20th for an official shareholder’s call scheduled for Tuesday, June 25th. On the 6/25 call the shareholders were made aware of the pending deal with Ithaca Holdings and had 3 days to go over all of the details of the proposed transaction. We then had a final call on Friday, June 28th in which the transaction passed with a majority vote and 3 of the 5 shareholders voting ‘yes’ with 92% of the shareholder’s vote.

Out of courtesy, I personally texted Taylor at 9:06pm, Saturday, June 29th to inform her prior to the story breaking on the morning of Sunday, June 30th so she could hear it directly from me.

I guess it might somehow be possible that her dad Scott, 13 Management lawyer Jay Schaudies (who represented Scott Swift on the shareholder calls) or 13 Management executive and Big Machine LLC shareholder Frank Bell (who was on the shareholder calls) didn’t say anything to Taylor over the prior 5 days. I guess it’s possible that she might not have seen my text. But, I truly doubt that she “woke up to the news when everyone else did”.

I am attaching a few very important deal points in what was part of our official last offer to Taylor Swift to remain at Big Machine Records. Her 13 Management team and attorney Don Passman went over this document in great detail and reported the terms to her in great detail.

Taylor and I then talked through the deal together.

As you will read, 100% of all Taylor Swift assets were to be transferred to her immediately upon signing the new agreement. We were working together on a new type of deal for our new streaming world that was not necessarily tied to ‘albums’ but more of a length of time.

We are an independent record company. We do not have tens of thousands of artists and recordings. My offer to Taylor, for the size of our company, was extraordinary. But it was also all I could offer as I am responsible for dozens of artists’ careers and over 120 executives and their families.

Taylor and I remained on very good terms when she told me she wanted to speak with other record companies and see what was out there for her. I never got in her way and wished her well.

The morning that the new Taylor/UMG announcement was going to be made, she texted me shortly before letting me know that the announcement was coming in a few minutes.

As we both posted on our socials, we saluted each other and cheered each other on.

Taylor had every chance in the world to own not just her master recordings, but every video, photograph, everything associated to her career. She chose to leave.

As to her comments about ‘being in tears or close to it’ anytime my new partner Scooter Braun’s name was brought up, I certainly never experienced that. Was I aware of some prior issues between Taylor and Justin Bieber? Yes. But there were also times where Taylor knew that I was close to Scooter and that Scooter was a very good source of information for upcoming album releases, tours, etc, and I’d reach out to him for information on our behalf. Scooter was never anything but positive about Taylor. He called me directly about Manchester to see if Taylor would participate (she declined).

He called me directly to see if Taylor wanted to participate in the Parkland March (she declined). Scooter has always been and will continue to be a supporter and honest custodian for Taylor and her music.

This is the text Taylor sent to me on Monday, November 19th at 8:57am:

Scott,

I hope this finds you well. Since communication ran dry on our negotiations, I’ve done what I told you I would do and gone out exploring other options. Owning my masters was very important to me, but I’ve since realized that there are things that mean even more to me in the bigger picture. I had a choice whether to bet on my past or to bet on the future and I think knowing me, you can guess which one I chose. I also saw a rare opportunity to effect positive change for a lot of other artists with the leverage I have right now. I know you believe in the same things I do and I’d like to think you would be proud of what I’ve negotiated for in my deal. I wanted to tell you first that I’ll be signing with Lucian. I honestly truly cherish everything you and I have built together and I plan on saying so in my announcement of the new deal. What we accomplished together will be a lasting legacy and a case study on excellent partnerships, and may it continue. I still view you as a partner and friend and I hope you feel the same. Sending you a hug and my most sincere gratitude.

And SO much love,

Taylor

Here is the text I sent on the evening of June 29 at 9:05pm:

Dear Taylor,

Hope all is well and congratulations on the success of your first two singles from “Lover”!

I can’t wait to hear the entire album…

I wanted to pass along to you the same courtesy that you passed along to me in regard to my future.

Tomorrow morning (Sunday, June 30th) at 10a central, the Wall Street Journal will announce that I am entering into a merger/acquisition with Scooter Braun and Ithaca Holdings. This move will give us more pop culture super-power than ever before and I’m so excited about the future.

I want you to know that I will continue to be the proud custodian of your previous works and will continue to keep you and your team abreast of all future plans for releases of you work.

Nothing but the best,

Scott

Is there a link?

PennyPurple said:

getxxxx said:

Taylor’s dad, Scott Swift, was a shareholder in Big Machine Records, LLC. We first alerted all of the shareholders on Thursday, June 20th for an official shareholder’s call scheduled for Tuesday, June 25th. On the 6/25 call the shareholders were made aware of the pending deal with Ithaca Holdings and had 3 days to go over all of the details of the proposed transaction. We then had a final call on Friday, June 28th in which the transaction passed with a majority vote and 3 of the 5 shareholders voting ‘yes’ with 92% of the shareholder’s vote.

Out of courtesy, I personally texted Taylor at 9:06pm, Saturday, June 29th to inform her prior to the story breaking on the morning of Sunday, June 30th so she could hear it directly from me.

I guess it might somehow be possible that her dad Scott, 13 Management lawyer Jay Schaudies (who represented Scott Swift on the shareholder calls) or 13 Management executive and Big Machine LLC shareholder Frank Bell (who was on the shareholder calls) didn’t say anything to Taylor over the prior 5 days. I guess it’s possible that she might not have seen my text. But, I truly doubt that she “woke up to the news when everyone else did”.

I am attaching a few very important deal points in what was part of our official last offer to Taylor Swift to remain at Big Machine Records. Her 13 Management team and attorney Don Passman went over this document in great detail and reported the terms to her in great detail.

Taylor and I then talked through the deal together.

As you will read, 100% of all Taylor Swift assets were to be transferred to her immediately upon signing the new agreement. We were working together on a new type of deal for our new streaming world that was not necessarily tied to ‘albums’ but more of a length of time.

We are an independent record company. We do not have tens of thousands of artists and recordings. My offer to Taylor, for the size of our company, was extraordinary. But it was also all I could offer as I am responsible for dozens of artists’ careers and over 120 executives and their families.

Taylor and I remained on very good terms when she told me she wanted to speak with other record companies and see what was out there for her. I never got in her way and wished her well.

The morning that the new Taylor/UMG announcement was going to be made, she texted me shortly before letting me know that the announcement was coming in a few minutes.

As we both posted on our socials, we saluted each other and cheered each other on.

Taylor had every chance in the world to own not just her master recordings, but every video, photograph, everything associated to her career. She chose to leave.

As to her comments about ‘being in tears or close to it’ anytime my new partner Scooter Braun’s name was brought up, I certainly never experienced that. Was I aware of some prior issues between Taylor and Justin Bieber? Yes. But there were also times where Taylor knew that I was close to Scooter and that Scooter was a very good source of information for upcoming album releases, tours, etc, and I’d reach out to him for information on our behalf. Scooter was never anything but positive about Taylor. He called me directly about Manchester to see if Taylor would participate (she declined).

He called me directly to see if Taylor wanted to participate in the Parkland March (she declined). Scooter has always been and will continue to be a supporter and honest custodian for Taylor and her music.

This is the text Taylor sent to me on Monday, November 19th at 8:57am:

Scott,

I hope this finds you well. Since communication ran dry on our negotiations, I’ve done what I told you I would do and gone out exploring other options. Owning my masters was very important to me, but I’ve since realized that there are things that mean even more to me in the bigger picture. I had a choice whether to bet on my past or to bet on the future and I think knowing me, you can guess which one I chose. I also saw a rare opportunity to effect positive change for a lot of other artists with the leverage I have right now. I know you believe in the same things I do and I’d like to think you would be proud of what I’ve negotiated for in my deal. I wanted to tell you first that I’ll be signing with Lucian. I honestly truly cherish everything you and I have built together and I plan on saying so in my announcement of the new deal. What we accomplished together will be a lasting legacy and a case study on excellent partnerships, and may it continue. I still view you as a partner and friend and I hope you feel the same. Sending you a hug and my most sincere gratitude.

And SO much love,

Taylor

Here is the text I sent on the evening of June 29 at 9:05pm:

Dear Taylor,

Hope all is well and congratulations on the success of your first two singles from “Lover”!

I can’t wait to hear the entire album…

I wanted to pass along to you the same courtesy that you passed along to me in regard to my future.

Tomorrow morning (Sunday, June 30th) at 10a central, the Wall Street Journal will announce that I am entering into a merger/acquisition with Scooter Braun and Ithaca Holdings. This move will give us more pop culture super-power than ever before and I’m so excited about the future.

I want you to know that I will continue to be the proud custodian of your previous works and will continue to keep you and your team abreast of all future plans for releases of you work.

Nothing but the best,

Scott

Is there a link?

Yes there is a link.

MickyDolenz said:

DaveT said:

You look at someone like Springsteen whose passion is writing songs that highlight the ups and down of his home nation, and wonder what he thinks of these fools who seem to live to have childish spats over "social media".

Celebrities were doing that before there was an internet. Like David Lee Roth/Sammy Hagar/Eddie Van Halen and John Lennon talking about Paul McCartney in his song How Do You Sleep. There's also Roger Waters vs the other members of Pink Floyd. There was the fued between actresses Bette Davis & Joan Crawford. The only difference is that social media is seen by more people and there wasn't near as many outlets for entertainment news or news period.

[Edited 7/2/19 15:05pm]

True, but I don't remember it being so underhanded and crass back then ... like Kanye using a porn-alike of Taylor in his music video, or Taylor lying and manipulating her own fanbase, eugh

Artists like Waters and Floyd fell out because of differences around the direction of their art (in their case whether Rick Wright should remain in the band given the "battles" he was going through off stage). And even though they had spats they at least conducted themselves with some class and behaved more or less like adults.

They also had the talent and back catalogue to back themselves up ... I can consider looking past someone being a gobshite if they've got real talent.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

PennyPurple said:

Is there a link?

Yes there is a link.

PennyPurple said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Yes there is a link.

https://www.bigmachinelab...hrq7N_w0V0

Here ya go Penny...straight from Green Machine.

She had a chance to own her masters, but thought investing in her future was more important. That is great but she did not need to play victim again.

I wish my dad had $120,000 to invest in my music career when I was 15, industry standard deal or not.

Sorry I have no sympathy for her truly charmed life.

And there are certainly worse managers in the industry than Scooter Braun to be owning your shit NOW.

Cinny said:

She had a chance to own her masters, but thought investing in her future was more important. That is great but she did not need to play victim again.

I wish my dad had $120,000 to invest in my music career when I was 15, industry standard deal or not.

Sorry I have no sympathy for her truly charmed life.

And there are certainly worse managers in the industry than Scooter Braun to be owning your shit NOW.

Eh it's debatable.

The general concensus is he's problematic.

I don't know...

Not the worst outcome, now she has enough butthurt for a whole new album

Se7en said:

CynicKill said:

Cinny said:

She had a chance to own her masters, but thought investing in her future was more important. That is great but she did not need to play victim again.

I wish my dad had $120,000 to invest in my music career when I was 15, industry standard deal or not.

Sorry I have no sympathy for her truly charmed life.

And there are certainly worse managers in the industry than Scooter Braun to be owning your shit NOW.

Eh it's debatable.

The general concensus is he's problematic.

I don't know...

I'm saying, it could be the Two Seas brothers that MJ was talking to

All Ms. Swift needs to do is re-record her music... change/remix her her material. Taylor can reclaim all of her music and publishing. Problem solved.

Personally I am "Sad and Grossed Out" by Taylor Swift and her music. Never understood the appeal of her, she is just grating IMO.

lastdecember said:

No way she was even offered her masters upon signing, I am not sure what people think of todays artists, but when they are first signed to a label especially if they are young and especially in this "I want to be a star right away, with no work" generation, no one is giving them their artists when they sign out of the gate. No one ones their stuff, especially now, with 360 deals and all that, are people NUTS, labels are lucky at this point if someone signs a deal you think they are going to give that up?

Right.

She signed a typical 360 deal as a kid.

When it was time to re-up, they offered her her masters back one by one for every album she releases. She walked away to another label who she thought was gonna do better for her. She's pretending she knew nothing of the sale but her father owned 10% of the company. She's full of shit.

She doesn't get to blame Scooter for her poor business decisions.

Her entire career has been a nonstop plethora of typical Mean Girl high-school bullshit.

She's a great songwriter when she wants to be but, holy fuck, does she need to grow up.

StrangeButTrue said:

.

.

He and his porn star wife are tragic in so many ways.

What is this?

TrcikyChristopher said:

lastdecember said:

No way she was even offered her masters upon signing, I am not sure what people think of todays artists, but when they are first signed to a label especially if they are young and especially in this "I want to be a star right away, with no work" generation, no one is giving them their artists when they sign out of the gate. No one ones their stuff, especially now, with 360 deals and all that, are people NUTS, labels are lucky at this point if someone signs a deal you think they are going to give that up?

Right.

She signed a typical 360 deal as a kid.

When it was time to re-up, they offered her her masters back one by one for every album she releases. She walked away to another label who she thought was gonna do better for her. She's pretending she knew nothing of the sale but her father owned 10% of the company. She's full of shit.

She doesn't get to blame Scooter for her poor business decisions.

Her entire career has been a nonstop plethora of typical Mean Girl high-school bullshit.

She's a great songwriter when she wants to be but, holy fuck, does she need to grow up.

Right, she was a kid who was 15 years old....a kid. And they are saying that since she was only 15 that her guardian actually had to sign it which was her father.........

TS has talent, she filled the stadiums to the brim on her stadium tours this last year. She writes her own songs when a lot of other folks can't write anything.

I give her credit, she has a lot more talent then 1/2 the artists out there right now.

ThePanther said:

Singer Kelly Clarkson suggests that Swift re-record and release her back catalog now. How do you feel about this strategy? This is an interesting suggestion/development especially as this young lady has about six studio albums in total.

TD3 said:

All Ms. Swift needs to do is re-record her music... change/remix her her material. Taylor can reclaim all of her music and publishing. Problem solved.

.

Sorry if I jumped on your idea with the Kelly Clarkson suggestion. I can't think of any artists that have successfully employed this strategy outside of random/obscure compilations with R&B groups and what not. I wonder if the artists efforts to re-record was worth the profits of such projects.

StrangeButTrue said:

TD3 said:

All Ms. Swift needs to do is re-record her music... change/remix her her material. Taylor can reclaim all of her music and publishing. Problem solved.

.

Sorry if I jumped on your idea with the Kelly Clarkson suggestion. I can't think of any artists that have successfully employed this strategy outside of random/obscure compilations with R&B groups and what not. I wonder if the artists efforts to re-record was worth the profits of such projects.

YES! TLC re-recorded their WHOLE catalog when Sony refused ownership of their master recordings. It has been VERY lucrative for them.They licence out their version. They say they make MAJOR bags(MONEY) off their publishing now.

[Edited 7/19/19 7:30am]

https://www.billboard.com...al-experts

.

Interesting stuff, they even mention 1999:The New Master

Taylor is one of the actors in the upcoming Cats movie: trailer

StrangeButTrue said:

https://www.billboard.com...al-experts

.

Interesting stuff, they even mention 1999:The New Master

Does anyone know if Prince did re-record his entire back catalog? I read that it was scrapped after the bad reception of 1999:TNM, but part of me feels that just the release of them was scrapped.

Prince was no slouch in the recording studio, but if Taylor Swift goes down this route she'll have a whole team of producers and studio musicians behind her. If she wants a song to sound exactly like the first version did, I have a feeling it will.

On one hand, I'm thinking, "well, this is exactly what Prince was talking about back in those Symbol days".

On the other, Taylor's public persona of the "Perpetual Victim" that she's adopted after easing off "country pop" and since Kanye interrupted her moment on stage is so... bloody grating

it has Kanye actually looking like he was right about Princess of the Snake Emojis (Oprah has taken the throne unforch)