his accomplishments are there forever, his artistry is there regardless of whether he was a molester, a wife beater or anything else, just like any other great artist who had faults. yes it could hurt his future reputation and what people think of him, it could but what's done is done and he was one of the best ever no matter what.

RODSERLING said:

PatrickS77 said:

Oh. Boohoo. Then just leave.

Really. Nothing has changed. These two fuckers playing victim in a movie changes nothing. Absolutely nothing. Either you believe Michael is innocent or you don't.

No, the situation is different and worst than the ChAndler and Arvizo case. There was no documentary like that at the time,and Michael was there to defend himself. . In fact, between 1998 and 2002, MJ catalog sales were an all time low. Even the special editions of 2001 were flops. . But when Living with MJ was broadcast, everything changed. His albums re entered the charts and made better entries than in 2001 ! Off the Wall went #13 on the UK charts that year,his best peak position since 1980 ! . And it continued throughout the trial, and it never went since then. He became popular and hype again. . Ironically, LWMJ gave a better imAge of him to the audience, and make then care again for him, evening his career was dead. . The coverage of the trial, where it was clear Michael was a victim, made the people buy his records. . But now, Michael can t defend himself anymore. Most of the fans quit when they released the Cascio tracks. The youth didn't know MJ, so they share the opinion of the media. . I am 32. I have 3 colleagues, they are 27, and they didn't know MJ at the time he was alive, so they don't know about his struggles against the media, and they don't care. . There is only 5 years between us, but I m shoked to see the gAp in terms of musical culture. If they didn't know the artist, they don't care. Like if I didn't know the Beatles in the 60's I wouldn't care. . The 10 years of his death will be a joke. But by the 20th year, MJ won't be much considered as an artist (and a human being)

Lisa Marie took the pic with MJ out of her instagram. She posted it like 3 days ago and deleted it.

ItsLetoyaBaby said:

Lisa Marie took the pic with MJ out of her instagram. She posted it like 3 days ago and deleted it.

wonder why?

RODSERLING said:

PeteSilas said:

ItsLetoyaBaby said:

Like I said, the biggest news out of this whole screening is the sordid details. I got uncomfortable watching Silence Of The Lambs and even things like One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest. So of course 4 hours of lurid details about a controversial and debated subject will make people - especially those who aren't particulary for or against either Jackson or the accusers one way or the other - unsettled. I don't blame viewers.

But there is no new evidence here. The documentarian simply chose to say "Hey, I believe these guys" and make a 4 hour documentary. By his own admission, he didn't do much research, he interviewed few people, and not one person who has seen the film has said there is new information that's come to light. Instead of Wade Robson saying he was abused, he says how we abused.

The thing about MJ is that he's portrayed as an ultimate predator who grooms, manipulates, uses his power and wealth to overwhelm and does dastardly things. He wasn't accused of simply being "strange". There is no gray area; he's guilty of these things in this documentary or he isn't. And there has been no more evidence provided to this day than there was in 2003 or in 1993. He's had people sue him, and lies about every case. Jordan Chandler described his privates. Wrong... simply not true. He had child pornography. That's a crime in and of itself, and if true he would have been prosecuted for that separate from the other charges. False. He paid off the accusers. False, insurance did, against his choice.

I just am kind of dumbfounded because I get why anyone of any genre in entertainment gets the stink eye during this movement.... Cosby, Wienstein, R. Kelly and others are paying the price for past

misdeeds. Cosby admitted under oath to giving women alcohol and pills and "going to somewhere between yes and no". R. Kelly is on tape. Weinstein has established women who have not brought any case against him saying they were pressured by him. Jackson was under FBI surveillance, a bloodthirsty DA...

I don't know if anyone remember the press conference Sneddon gave during announcing MJ's arrest in 2003... it was shameful. This was not a DA giving a press conference. This was a man who had worked on something for ten years, orchestrated a plan (including a tabloid gossiper - Diane Dimond - to break the story) and acting jovial, cracking jokes. His face was literally twitching with joy as he announced the arrest. Compare that to the video you can find of him on Youtube when Jackson was acquitted of

everything. Remember, Jackson wrote a song about Sneddon in 1995 for the History album. That should have gotten Sneddon off the case. A seasoned DA taking evidence out of bags to let alleged victims put their fingerprints on? Filing claims about molestation when your alleged victim and perpetrator were on different continents?

And these are the credible accusers. To choose people who sued for cash after the passing of the person they defended without offering anything new in regards to proof will not really do anything but stir up the same discussion that has been had every ten years or so.

alphastreet said:

PeteSilas said:

wonder why?

Maybe she’s gotten negative comments

i really doubt that would stop her, she had a certain arrogance that could only come with being raised in privilige. Either way, she has her own worries right now, hopefully she doesn't end up like her dad and ex.

Superstition said:

Like I said, the biggest news out of this whole screening is the sordid details. I got uncomfortable watching Silence Of The Lambs and even things like One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest. So of course 4 hours of lurid details about a controversial and debated subject will make people - especially those who aren't particulary for or against either Jackson or the accusers one way or the other - unsettled. I don't blame viewers.

But there is no new evidence here. The documentarian simply chose to say "Hey, I believe these guys" and make a 4 hour documentary. By his own admission, he didn't do much research, he interviewed few people, and not one person who has seen the film has said there is new information that's come to light. Instead of Wade Robson saying he was abused, he says how we abused.

The thing about MJ is that he's portrayed as an ultimate predator who grooms, manipulates, uses his power and wealth to overwhelm and does dastardly things. He wasn't accused of simply being "strange". There is no gray area; he's guilty of these things in this documentary or he isn't. And there has been no more evidence provided to this day than there was in 2003 or in 1993. He's had people sue him, and lies about every case. Jordan Chandler described his privates. Wrong... simply not true. He had child pornography. That's a crime in and of itself, and if true he would have been prosecuted for that separate from the other charges. False. He paid off the accusers. False, insurance did, against his choice.

I just am kind of dumbfounded because I get why anyone of any genre in entertainment gets the stink eye during this movement.... Cosby, Wienstein, R. Kelly and others are paying the price for past

misdeeds. Cosby admitted under oath to giving women alcohol and pills and "going to somewhere between yes and no". R. Kelly is on tape. Weinstein has established women who have not brought any case against him saying they were pressured by him. Jackson was under FBI surveillance, a bloodthirsty DA...

I don't know if anyone remember the press conference Sneddon gave during announcing MJ's arrest in 2003... it was shameful. This was not a DA giving a press conference. This was a man who had worked on something for ten years, orchestrated a plan (including a tabloid gossiper - Diane Dimond - to break the story) and acting jovial, cracking jokes. His face was literally twitching with joy as he announced the arrest. Compare that to the video you can find of him on Youtube when Jackson was acquitted of

everything. Remember, Jackson wrote a song about Sneddon in 1995 for the History album. That should have gotten Sneddon off the case. A seasoned DA taking evidence out of bags to let alleged victims put their fingerprints on? Filing claims about molestation when your alleged victim and perpetrator were on different continents?

And these are the credible accusers. To choose people who sued for cash after the passing of the person they defended without offering anything new in regards to proof will not really do anything but stir up the same discussion that has been had every ten years or so.

sneddon should have done prison time for tampering. Personally, i'm an mj fan, i'll be one no matter what but one thing i know, people are fickle, after mj died everyone was full of love for him and eager to believe he was innocent, now it's going the other way, fuck em all. I guess Mj shouldn't have ever complained about fame, alex haley once called fame "like riding a tiger, if you fall off that tiger will eat you".Honestly, not many men have dealt with fame very well. Point i was making is, just as fans bought his albums in droves, that same herd mentality can and will turn against you.

PeteSilas said:

Superstition said:

Like I said, the biggest news out of this whole screening is the sordid details. I got uncomfortable watching Silence Of The Lambs and even things like One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest. So of course 4 hours of lurid details about a controversial and debated subject will make people - especially those who aren't particulary for or against either Jackson or the accusers one way or the other - unsettled. I don't blame viewers.

But there is no new evidence here. The documentarian simply chose to say "Hey, I believe these guys" and make a 4 hour documentary. By his own admission, he didn't do much research, he interviewed few people, and not one person who has seen the film has said there is new information that's come to light. Instead of Wade Robson saying he was abused, he says how we abused.

The thing about MJ is that he's portrayed as an ultimate predator who grooms, manipulates, uses his power and wealth to overwhelm and does dastardly things. He wasn't accused of simply being "strange". There is no gray area; he's guilty of these things in this documentary or he isn't. And there has been no more evidence provided to this day than there was in 2003 or in 1993. He's had people sue him, and lies about every case. Jordan Chandler described his privates. Wrong... simply not true. He had child pornography. That's a crime in and of itself, and if true he would have been prosecuted for that separate from the other charges. False. He paid off the accusers. False, insurance did, against his choice.

I just am kind of dumbfounded because I get why anyone of any genre in entertainment gets the stink eye during this movement.... Cosby, Wienstein, R. Kelly and others are paying the price for past

misdeeds. Cosby admitted under oath to giving women alcohol and pills and "going to somewhere between yes and no". R. Kelly is on tape. Weinstein has established women who have not brought any case against him saying they were pressured by him. Jackson was under FBI surveillance, a bloodthirsty DA...

I don't know if anyone remember the press conference Sneddon gave during announcing MJ's arrest in 2003... it was shameful. This was not a DA giving a press conference. This was a man who had worked on something for ten years, orchestrated a plan (including a tabloid gossiper - Diane Dimond - to break the story) and acting jovial, cracking jokes. His face was literally twitching with joy as he announced the arrest. Compare that to the video you can find of him on Youtube when Jackson was acquitted of

everything. Remember, Jackson wrote a song about Sneddon in 1995 for the History album. That should have gotten Sneddon off the case. A seasoned DA taking evidence out of bags to let alleged victims put their fingerprints on? Filing claims about molestation when your alleged victim and perpetrator were on different continents?

And these are the credible accusers. To choose people who sued for cash after the passing of the person they defended without offering anything new in regards to proof will not really do anything but stir up the same discussion that has been had every ten years or so.

sneddon should have done prison time for tampering. Personally, i'm an mj fan, i'll be one no matter what but one thing i know, people are fickle, after mj died everyone was full of love for him and eager to believe he was innocent, now it's going the other way, fuck em all. I guess Mj shouldn't have ever complained about fame, alex haley once called fame "like riding a tiger, if you fall off that tiger will eat you".Honestly, not many men have dealt with fame very well. Point i was making is, just as fans bought his albums in droves, that same herd mentality can and will turn against you.

I wish I could find the video for when Sneddon announced the indictment. A total joke. As I said, his lips were quivierijng with excietimet, but his case was a joke.

MJ is dead, so the real bad part isn't this, Sneddon was already discredited. Robson and Safechuck are the least credible accusers getting the most credible higher ground. Again, a joke.

This will stir debate like 2003. They probably got some money somehow, so it works out for them. I will watch this. MJ wasn't right. But there are exceptions to the rules. "If this was the guy born down the street..."

MJ was not the guy born down the street... so what? Give me proof. After 30 years, you'd think ther'd be a shred...

[Edited 2/15/19 19:26pm]

[Edited 2/15/19 19:26pm]

Superstition said:

PeteSilas said:

sneddon should have done prison time for tampering. Personally, i'm an mj fan, i'll be one no matter what but one thing i know, people are fickle, after mj died everyone was full of love for him and eager to believe he was innocent, now it's going the other way, fuck em all. I guess Mj shouldn't have ever complained about fame, alex haley once called fame "like riding a tiger, if you fall off that tiger will eat you".Honestly, not many men have dealt with fame very well. Point i was making is, just as fans bought his albums in droves, that same herd mentality can and will turn against you.

I wish I could find the video for when Sneddon announced the indictment. A total joke. As I said, his lips were quivierijng with excietimet, but his case was a joke.

MJ is dead, so the real bad part isn't this, Sneddon was already discredited. Robson and Safechuck are the least credible accusers getting the most credible higher ground. Again, a joke.

This will stir debate like 2003. They probably got some money somehow, so it works out for them. I will watch this. MJ wasn't right. But there are exceptions to the rules. "If this was the guy born down the street..."

MJ was not the guy born down the street... so what? Give me proof. After 30 years, you'd think ther'd be a shred...

[Edited 2/15/19 19:26pm]

[Edited 2/15/19 19:26pm]

ya, sneddon was a piece of shit, i saw that, sneddon was joiking about the case, he was called out on that and a few other things. he's dead now too, and there was that rumour where someone heard him swear that he was "going to get that n00000" you know, corey feldman has a point, they are using mike as a smokescreen, so whoever the real guys are, rumoured to be spielberg for one, they haven't even begun to look at them.

PeteSilas said:

alphastreet said:

PeteSilas said:

i really doubt that would stop her, she had a certain arrogance that could only come with being raised in privilige. Either way, she has her own worries right now, hopefully she doesn't end up like her dad and ex.

Why, what’s she up to?

well, if what i'm hearing is true, she's broke and deep into addiction, the sources don't look great but I can't doubt it. then the pics of her, she looks bad, i honestly hope she'll be ok.

alphastreet said:

Also hope she’s ok, maybe a new album will help? Lol

well,she inherited her mom's musical talent, i'll leave it at that.

alphastreet said:

Haha I hope this mess ends soon

Lisa Marie's or Michael's? Lisa has just put the photo with MJ back on her insta. That's good. As for her mess ending soon, I'd just stay single if I were her to prevent further damage and, obviously, stay away from drugs. That way the mess can end.

Michael Jackson's mess, however, is only just starting. The doc is putting a lot of people against him and it hasn't even aired on TV. I don't see it ending. In fact, I see it just as the start of what will become a perpetual, unassailable image.

Free2BMe said:

Free2BMe said:

PatrickS77 said:

Free2BMe said:

on the sick mind of Guiterrez, a man who is promoting and having sex with boys-NAMBLA.

I'm sorry, but where exactly is he promoting this? Throwing out unproven things is not really helping.

PatrickS77 said:

Free2BMe said:

PatrickS77 said:

I'm sorry, but where exactly is he promoting this? Throwing out unproven things is not really helping.

There is no question that Guitterez promotes sex between man/boy,which is one of the main components of NAMBLA. Everything that Robson and Safechuck are spewing comes from Guitterez’s book. Guitterez is still being “consulted” by the participants of this latest conspiracy. [Edited 2/17/19 8:32am] [Edited 2/17/19 8:41am]

Writing about something that supposedly has transpired is not promoting something.

PatrickS77 said:

Free2BMe said:

PatrickS77 said:

Writing about something that supposedly has transpired is not promoting something.

Yes, Guitterez is PROMOTING a lie. He knows that none of the bullshit that he is PROMOTING has any truth to it. The extortionists- Robson and Safechuck used Guitterez’s book almost word for word in this fraudomentary. I would bet money that Guitterez is working hand in hand with these liars, as well as the “porn” director, Dan Reed. Just as he worked hand in hand with Evan Chandler during the 1993 scam, to portray Jordan as the “lover” of his so-called abuser. Guiterrez is an advocate and participate in the NAMBLA doctrine. He PROMOTES that sickness in his book and every time he opens his mouth.

Aha, so anyone wrting about a murder case is promoting murder?

So? What does that have to do with him? Where is the proof he has anything to do with the current scam, other than him having written a book 25 years ago? And where is his NAMBLA connection? You're making an assumption, but you've yet to show me where he promotes, advocates and supports NAMBLA. I want to know where that comes from, other than him, supposedly undercover, visiting a NAMBLA meeting to report about it. Whether there is any proof for that other than fans throwing it into the discussion because it helps our case. And since when is Dan Reed a porn director? Where does that come from? What porn has he directed? Would being a porn director discredit anything else he does? How is that relevant?

[Edited 2/17/19 12:23pm]

I wish MJ would be left to rest in peace.

But still people want to make money off his name!

It's time to give it a rest and to move on.

I wish there was an emoticon of a shaking head in hands as that's how I feel about it all!

darkroman said:

I wish MJ would be left to rest in peace.

But still people want to make money off his name!

It's time to give it a rest and to move on.

I wish there was an emoticon of a shaking head in hands as that's how I feel about it all!

co-sign