I fell for this crap once. I actually turned on MJ during the 2005 trial. The I researched. I was wrong. I became an even bigger fan once it was clear he was falsely accused.

So....Nope. Robson and Safechuck are not believable. Fuck them. A child molester does not only molest a handful of children when he/she has hundreds possibly thousands of opportunties. It's absurd.

Love MJ and ain't a damn thing changed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVsEhGCDdX8 Moniques has an interesting thoughts on Oprah and MJ.

RichardS said:

scorp84 said:

A lot of interesting conversation in this thread about some "questionable" materials found during the search of MJ's home leads to even more interesting findings dating back long before what ultimately happened in '93 and beyond. If you have time, hell, you spent 4 hours on a "film", take some moments to take in this information. There are many familiar names here. Many of them are beginning to resurface now. It goes alot deeper than some allegations. Money is the root...well we know the rest.

https://vindicatemj.wordp...my-career/

Can you point me to the page on that site where they discuss the materials found by the search of Neverland, as detailed in the court document. Thanks.

I directed you to a helpful resource. I won't do the research for you. Part of the fun is in the discovery of new information. Enjoy!

DiminutiveRocker said:

homesquid said:

I fell for this crap once. I actually turned on MJ during the 2005 trial. The I researched. I was wrong. I became an even bigger fan once it was clear he was falsely accused.

So....Nope. Robson and Safechuck are not believable. Fuck them. A child molester does not only molest a handful of children when he/she has hundreds possibly thousands of opportunties. It's absurd.

Love MJ and ain't a damn thing changed.

That's actually not true. A child molester doesn't molest every child they come into contact with. They know who they can and can't fuck with. Furthermore, most people that experience abuse will never say anything at all so if this is true, then rest assured there are others out there that we'll never hear a word from. I understand your position on 2005. It wasn't presented honestly to the public and even though I do believe Robson and Safechuck I do still question the validity of the Arvizo allegations.

carey feldman is doing an about face, probably because he realizes a sympathetic stance will help him make his own stupid docu. People are weak, they'll roll over on you in a second.

the man's work is there forever, they can't wipe that out but they'll try. Even if he was a molestor, that still doesn't mean he wasn't a great artist, I was thinking earlier to when I first saw him after his thriller transformation, in the beat it vid, i was mesmerized, i was in 9th grade and I still remember how I froze and watched the whole vid even though I needed to catch my bus, i was rivetted, there has never been a human that I'm aware who had that kind of aura, Elvis was close but I'm not sure if he even had that kind of charisma.

i kind of miss the days after he died when people felt so guilty that they bent over backwards to blame the media for all the stories and it was true, forget about molestation for a second, the poor guy never had a moments peace in terms of someone not trying to get some of his money be it for songrwriting credits or other stupid shit. He was too nice, as I've said, he should have stayed away from people, most of his problems would have been solved.

[Edited 3/9/19 0:01am]

CherryMoon57 said:

2045RadicalMattZ said:

scorp84 said:

RichardS said:

Can you point me to the page on that site where they discuss the materials found by the search of Neverland, as detailed in the court document. Thanks.

I directed you to a helpful resource. I won't do the research for you. Part of the fun is in the discovery of new information. Enjoy!

Unfortunately it didn't help as they don't appear to discuss that particular issue.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/leaving-neverland-viewers-shocked-giggling-reaction-victims-mother-092104513.html

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/leaving-neverland-viewers-shocked-james-safechucks-mum-declares-danced-michael-jackson-died-101852177.html

Mum glad Michael died in 2009 but Safeshuck didnt know he was raped untill 2014/5?

[Edited 3/9/19 5:06am]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

- ..is other than what they're saying, did you unearth any actual evidence that proves that Michael Jackson was a pedophile?

- Well there's masses of corroborating evidence if you look at the investigations that the LAPD and the Santa Barbara Sheriff's Department carried out
in 1993 when Jordan Chandler came forth with his accusations, and in 2003 to 2005 when 13 year old Gavin Arvizo accused Michael of molesting him.
So there's masses of you know eyewitness statements by Neverland staff, by the chambermaid, by the driver, by the cook..

- But none of it convicted him?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


EG

[Edited 3/9/19 6:09am]

ElGorillos said:

ElGorillos said:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

- ..is other than what they're saying, did you unearth any actual evidence that proves that Michael Jackson was a pedophile?

- Well there's masses of cooperating evidence if you look at the investigations that the LAPD and the Santa Barbara Sheriff's Department carried out
in 1993 when Jordan Chandler came forth with his accusations, and in 2003 to 2005 when 13 year old Gavin Arvizo accused Michael of molesting him.
So there's masses of you know eyewitness statements by Neverland staff, by the chambermaid, by the driver, by the cook..

- But none of it convicted him?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


EG

That is true - none of it was enough to convict him. Several of the jurors stated that they believed him to be guilty of child molestation (having sat through the case), but that their belief was not enough to convict him in a court of law.

ElGorillos said:

PatrickS77 said:

ElGorillos said:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

- ..is other than what they're saying, did you unearth any actual evidence that proves that Michael Jackson was a pedophile?

- Well there's masses of cooperating evidence if you look at the investigations that the LAPD and the Santa Barbara Sheriff's Department carried out
in 1993 when Jordan Chandler came forth with his accusations, and in 2003 to 2005 when 13 year old Gavin Arvizo accused Michael of molesting him.
So there's masses of you know eyewitness statements by Neverland staff, by the chambermaid, by the driver, by the cook..

- But none of it convicted him?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


EG

"masses of cooperating evidence", but can't name a single one of it, whatever the hell that should be. How the hell can a thing "cooperate"? The fool should work on his terminology and not count on the stupid public to just believe every crap he says, but he just stays vague and hopes they will buy it. If there was masses of whatever and eywitneses, who were believable and didn't have axes to grind, Michael wouldn't have gotten aquitted. He, just like in his mockumentary, is fooling the public and misrepresenting the trial, when the right answer to the question would be "No. I just chose to believe them and love to have a movie everyone talks about.". [Edited 3/9/19 5:53am]

He actually said corroborate, not cooperate. Whoever typed it up got it wrong.

RichardS said:

RichardS said:

He actually said corroborate, not cooperate. Whoever typed it up got it wrong.

Cheers, you're right. It was a mix between Google transcription, and me. Fixed now.


EG

[Bait snip - luv4u]

motownlover said:

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/leaving-neverland-viewers-shocked-giggling-reaction-victims-mother-092104513.html

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/leaving-neverland-viewers-shocked-james-safechucks-mum-declares-danced-michael-jackson-died-101852177.html

Mum glad Michael died in 2009 but Safeshuck didnt know he was raped untill 2014/5?

[Edited 3/9/19 5:06am]

This isn't exactly accurate. MJ approached Safechuck about testifying on his behalf in 2005 and he refused to do so because of all of the attention it would bring and of course he was going through his own acceptance process. Safechuck's mother thought that he should testify on his behalf since MJ was a close friend of the family at one point and that's just the right thing to do. Safechuck informed his mother then that things weren't quite what they seem with MJ so she was aware for about 4 yrs by the time MJ died in '09. People are treating this like they had suppressed memory of the events that happened to them as a kid and that's not true. They were always aware. As they said, more clarity and understanding came to them after they had their own children. Which makes complete sense if you know anything about the process of acceptance for sexual abuse survivors. It was at that point that they felt confident enough to actually say something.

The people that are adamently refusing to even consider the legitimacy of what they're saying don't understand an extremely important component to this whole thing: essentially, at one point they were in love with MJ, down to being jealous of the other boys like Jordy Chandler that came along and "took their place". Another important factor here is that both the good and bad with MJ can be true. So, yes, he did help their careers, he also showered them with love and attention and I believe really cared about them but he also sexually abused them. He had a sickness. That doesn't take away from all of the good he did in his life and certainly doesn't take away his talent and achievements in his music career.

RichardS said:

ElGorillos said:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

- ..is other than what they're saying, did you unearth any actual evidence that proves that Michael Jackson was a pedophile?

- Well there's masses of cooperating evidence if you look at the investigations that the LAPD and the Santa Barbara Sheriff's Department carried out
in 1993 when Jordan Chandler came forth with his accusations, and in 2003 to 2005 when 13 year old Gavin Arvizo accused Michael of molesting him.
So there's masses of you know eyewitness statements by Neverland staff, by the chambermaid, by the driver, by the cook..

- But none of it convicted him?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


EG

That is true - none of it was enough to convict him. Several of the jurors stated that they believed him to be guilty of child molestation (having sat through the case), but that their belief was not enough to convict him in a court of law.

Some jurors said they believed MJ molested boys at some point in his life but not that specific boy, Gavin Arvizo. It is obvious Gavin was not molested and most people, even the "haters", don't believe him. There were so many contradictions, holes and careless mistakes in those Arvizo children's testimonies even the prosecution lost faith in them and pushed the previous acts envelope instead. They realized they wouldn't stand a chance with that kid so they desperately brought the 93 case evidence and the hundreds of one-on-one sleepovers to court as if saying "alright, so this kind was a casting mistake but he is still a pedo".

Free2BMe said:

Free2BMe, surely it is the civic duty of anyone who feels that children are in danger from an individual or individuals to report the individual(s) to the relevant authorities. I would suggest that to be your next course of action.

motownlover said:

Free2BMe said:

so much misinformation going both ways, and who can believe a goddamned thing with that kind of money at stake? They are still going for money.

Michael Jackson's Sales & Airplay Decline, After 'Leaving Neverland' Broadcast:

HBO's new documentary Leaving Neverland, which chronicles allegations of sexual abuse by Michael Jackson, led to a dip in sales and airplay, for his catalog of music in the U.S., according to initial reports Nielsen Music.

https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/chart-beat/8501755/michael-jackson-sales-streaming-airplay-decline-leaving-neverland

ChocolateBox3121 said:

Michael Jackson's Sales & Airplay Decline, After 'Leaving Neverland' Broadcast:

HBO's new documentary Leaving Neverland, which chronicles allegations of sexual abuse by Michael Jackson, led to a dip in sales and airplay, for his catalog of music in the U.S., according to initial reports Nielsen Music.

https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/chart-beat/8501755/michael-jackson-sales-streaming-airplay-decline-leaving-neverland

"Streams Increased"

Why did you leave that out of the headline?

ChocolateBox3121 said:

Michael Jackson's Sales & Airplay Decline, After 'Leaving Neverland' Broadcast:

HBO's new documentary Leaving Neverland, which chronicles allegations of sexual abuse by Michael Jackson, led to a dip in sales and airplay, for his catalog of music in the U.S., according to initial reports Nielsen Music.

https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/chart-beat/8501755/michael-jackson-sales-streaming-airplay-decline-leaving-neverland

And the complete opposite happens in the UK with albums re-entering charts. Seems UK audiences weren't as guilable to believe this crap piece.