mancabdriver said:

ThePanther said:

Yeah, I think the "Janet is dancing for two hours" is sort-of the key part that Elton John doesn't appreciate. He doesn't understand a music show based on dancing. And when he has seen dancing and music together, it's been live.

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As it happens, I agree with him (as would Prince). You certainly couldn't pay me to go to a Janet Jackson show.

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I would suggest that the people who would be "disappointed if the dancing would be sacrificed for the live singing" are not really music fans -- they're fans of pop spectacles. Which is fine, but it's just a different thing from what real musicians like Elton John respect.

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By the way, Prince was able to dance and sing live.

[Edited 3/4/16 19:50pm]

My god you're patronizing. Why didn't MJ get called out for his blatant lip syncing from 90 onwards? We live in such a sexist society. A woman can't be respected unless she looks like Patti Smith I guess.

i remember way back in 1990, i received free tix to a janet show and i wound up giving them away b/c i didn't want to see a glorified music video brought to life. sure enough, the friend i gave them to took his son, and he said while his son loved it, he was like 'whatever' b/c of all the lip synching. he was older and he and his wife had grown up in a different era. i was a little girl in the 70s when i saw the j5 at the l.a. forum. it was an entirely different experience. concerts really changed after the advent of mtv, which ironically, was a change that mj himself helped to usher in. 70s mj wouldn't have lip synched, while 90s mj (and madonna and others in pop music) did b/c the expectations of the audiences had changed drastically. i've seen stills from madonna's recent "concert" tour - is it a concert or a damn theatrical production?? dressed up like a clown like she's performing in pippin!! what the hell does that have to do with music?? i wouldn't pay money to see any of them - and i loved mj.

EmmaMcG said:

I don't like Elton John at all but in fairness to him, he has a point. If your job is "singer" then surely it's not unreasonable to ask that you actually sing... I went to see Britney a few years ago and afterwards I thought "why didn't I just stay home and listen to the CD?"

Elton John is outta line. The type of pop music Janet Jackson sings/performs does not require
100% live singing all the time, especially if most of your live show involves dance routines. El-
ton John's live shows does not require him to be physically active apart from sitting at a piano,
so, I think he's being completely unfair to JJ here.

Janet Jackson's job is to "perform" and "entertain." Her popularity is not entirely dependent upon
her live singing prowess, or her singing prowess in general.

Just my two cents!

kibbles said:

mancabdriver said:

ThePanther said: My god you're patronizing. Why didn't MJ get called out for his blatant lip syncing from 90 onwards? We live in such a sexist society. A woman can't be respected unless she looks like Patti Smith I guess.

i remember way back in 1990, i received free tix to a janet show and i wound up giving them away b/c i didn't want to see a glorified music video brought to life. sure enough, the friend i gave them to took his son, and he said while his son loved it, he was like 'whatever' b/c of all the lip synching. he was older and he and his wife had grown up in a different era. i was a little girl in the 70s when i saw the j5 at the l.a. forum. it was an entirely different experience. concerts really changed after the advent of mtv, which ironically, was a change that mj himself helped to usher in. 70s mj wouldn't have lip synched, while 90s mj (and madonna and others in pop music) did b/c the expectations of the audiences had changed drastically. i've seen stills from madonna's recent "concert" tour - is it a concert or a damn theatrical production?? dressed up like a clown like she's performing in pippin!! what the hell does that have to do with music?? i wouldn't pay money to see any of them - and i loved mj.

Well, good thing not everyone is as old fashioned, narrow minded and arrogant in their views of what should be a live show/concert as you.

kibbles said:

i remember way back in 1990, i received free tix to a janet show and i wound up giving them away b/c i didn't want to see a glorified music video brought to life. sure enough, the friend i gave them to took his son, and he said while his son loved it, he was like 'whatever' b/c of all the lip synching. he was older and he and his wife had grown up in a different era. i was a little girl in the 70s when i saw the j5 at the l.a. forum. it was an entirely different experience. concerts really changed after the advent of mtv, which ironically, was a change that mj himself helped to usher in. 70s mj wouldn't have lip synched, while 90s mj (and madonna and others in pop music) did b/c the expectations of the audiences had changed drastically. i've seen stills from madonna's recent "concert" tour - is it a concert or a damn theatrical production?? dressed up like a clown like she's performing in pippin!! what the hell does that have to do with music?? i wouldn't pay money to see any of them - and i loved mj.

Madonna has never been the type of artist who puts on a "typical concert".Her shows are big, theatrical and dramatic.That's how she chooses to present her music in concert.If you wanna see a show where the singer wears blue jeans and simply stands in front of a mic and sings for two hours,a Madonna concert ain't the place to be,lol.Big,theatrical shows are her thing and she excels at it.Subtlety has never been her style.

PatrickS77 said:

mancabdriver said:

PatrickS77 said:

Well, good thing not everyone is as old fashioned, narrow minded and arrogant in their views of what should be a live show/concert as you.

Wow. You say on negative thing about someone's idol and you labeled as old fashion and natrow minded- which is pretty ironic when I'm suggesting that female artists are treated much harsher than male singers when it comes to 'live' performing. I can't believe how petty and pathetic your response is. Wow. [Edited 3/22/16 3:46am]

I can't help it, if the shoe fits.

MotownSubdivision said:

Based on what I've read, if it were up to certain people then all "true" artists would just be standing in front of a mic and singing live for 2-3 hours while playing some type of instrument.

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Yeah, man that would suck. I mean, just imagine if you went to a music concert and the artist was in front of the mic, singing live for hours. I just can't imagine anything worse! God, that would suck. The only thing that would be worse is if they were also singing in tune.

ThePanther said:

MotownSubdivision said:

Based on what I've read, if it were up to certain people then all "true" artists would just be standing in front of a mic and singing live for 2-3 hours while playing some type of instrument.

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Yeah, man that would suck. I mean, just imagine if you went to a music concert and the artist was in front of the mic, singing live for hours. I just can't imagine anything worse! God, that would suck. The only thing that would be worse is if they were also singing in tune.

And you just proved MotownSubdivision's and my point: elitist, old fashioned, narrow minded and arrogant.

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This is what y'all sound and look like.

Elton John= drama queen Never be surprised by what he says.

PatrickS77 said:

And you just proved MotownSubdivision's and my point: elitist, old fashioned, narrow minded and arrogant.

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Uh-huh. (You forgot "misogynist", which I've also been called in this thread.)

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Back to my original point -- Elton is correct that acts that don't sing live shouldn't be named "best live act".

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To clarify then: If you disagree so vehemently with Elton, you're in fact arguing that artists who lip-sync should be eligible for 'best live act'. Do I have that correct?

ThePanther said:

PatrickS77 said:

And you just proved MotownSubdivision's and my point: elitist, old fashioned, narrow minded and arrogant.

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Uh-huh. (You forgot "misogynist", which I've also been called in this thread.)

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Back to my original point -- Elton is correct that acts that don't sing live shouldn't be named "best live act".

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To clarify then: If you disagree so vehemently with Elton, you're in fact arguing that artists who lip-sync should be eligible for 'best live act'. Do I have that correct?

She wasn't called "best live act" she was called "greatest show", according to Elton and Janet certainly has a great show. So Elton is wrong. And really, if we hang ourselves up on terminology, most of it is live. So I have no problem if the whole package is called "best live act". Of course, if she (or someone else) sits on a stool for two hours and lipsyncs, it's something different, but a full out show like she and others have, is also a live act, even if not every note is live.

[Edited 3/22/16 8:57am]

JKOOLMUSIC said:

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This is what y'all sound and look like.

I am going to Las Vegas soon and I just found out Elton John has a residency there. Who knew?

ThePanther said:

Interesting and valid points on both sides, but I personally tend to fall into the 'someone who's job title is "singer" really ought to sing' line of thought, and I'm hardly an old guy by the standards of most people here (I'm 29).

I could understand the 'it's all theatre, so complaining about lip-syncing is missing the point' argument if the artist in question didn't actually lip-synch and instead just channeled all their energies into giving a brilliant dance or theatrical show or whatever.

It's the dishonesty of acting as if they're singing that gets me (and I suspect is what annoys Elton, rather than just whether someone sings or not). So I don't see much wrong with his opinion TBH - and don't get me wrong, I like quite a lot of Janet stuff.

Why don't paragraphs display properly on this board, BTW? I must be missing a code or something.

Gunsnhalen said:

I love Eltons music and all... but he is a drama queen bottom bitch. He always bitches about people who respect him or worked with him. Years ago he put all of Billy Joels personal problems out there in Rolling Stone magazine. Right after they did a tour together! and Billy never said shit about Elton before any of that. He's such a nasty queen.

Hey heeey heeeeey! leave the bottoms out of this

But seriously, I get what he's trying to say and like everyone else mentioned Janet isn't a tour de force vocalist, she has never been such or claimed to be one from jump street.

Now Mariah Carey on the other hand!!!! I love Mimi, but Elton needs to be sicced on her ass until she gets it right or go home. Thats WHO he should talk about.

My thought is that if you're gonna fork out big money 2 go to a "singer's," concert, then of COURSE, you'll expect that the singer actually "sings." If you're gonna go and watch a singer lipsync, then the ticket prices should be much lower. Back in the day, singers sang LIVE. They was NO lipsyncing. It's bullshit. Sing or don't do concerts. Period.