ThePanther said:

100% agree with Elton John.

.

I think some of you are in such a rush to label him a bitter old man (which may be true) that you're completely missing his point. He's not criticizing Janet Jackson, per se, and he's certainly not saying she's talentless, a poor artist, or anything of the sort. He is criticizing media outlets for calling her live-show great, when, in Elton's view, it's not live. This is a different point.

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I completely agree. I mean, if you bought tickets to the New York Philharmonic and you sit, watching the cellist pretend to play while there's a backing-track playing over the speakers, did you get your money's worth? No, you didn't. Why should a 'pop' show be any different?

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Some of you might have a different viewpoint and simply want to see a famous person in the flesh, and watch a dance and light show. I don't.

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Elton comes from the 1950s/60s school of musicianship, which was based on... musicianship. I'm pretty sure Prince would agree with Elton on this, for what it's worth.

Apple and oranges. The New York Philharmonic sits on it's ass for two hours (just like Elton John... he wouldn't last 10 minutes dancing and live singing). Janet is dancing for two hours. And even if not every vocal is live. It still is a live show. She sings occasionally live, she dances live, the background singers sings live and her musicians play live.

So yes, in an ideal world the singing would be live too 100% and maybe she could sing more live than she supposedly does, but then there would be lesss dancing and for a visual artist like Janet, dancing is a big part of her show. So really, the discussion is flawed.

If you can't appreciate the full package, then don't go to her show. Most people who go to see her, would be disappointed if the dancing would be sacrificed for the live singing.

[Edited 3/1/16 2:57am]

PatrickS77 said:

So yes, in an ideal world the singing would be live too 100% and maybe she could sing more live than she supposedly does, but then there would be lesss dancing and for a visual artist like Janet,

[Edited 3/1/16 2:57am]

Lol.............that says it all.

Over the holidays, I saw the talent-driven Spotlight and the mostly story & effects-driven Star Wars Episode VII -- The Force Awakens.

I wasn't disappointed in either. I expected different things from each.

A music fan can enjoy different kinds of music because they make different kinds of bargains with each artist.

namepeace said:

Over the holidays, I saw the talent-driven Spotlight and the mostly story & effects-driven Star Wars Episode VII -- The Force Awakens.

I wasn't disappointed in either. I expected different things from each.

A music fan can enjoy different kinds of music because they make different kinds of bargains with each artist.

Good point and I agree with you. I enjoy listening to Janet once in a while. She has some very catchy tunes, but she has a very weak voice and is not what I would call a good singer.

PatrickS77 said:

ThePanther said:

100% agree with Elton John.

.

I think some of you are in such a rush to label him a bitter old man (which may be true) that you're completely missing his point. He's not criticizing Janet Jackson, per se, and he's certainly not saying she's talentless, a poor artist, or anything of the sort. He is criticizing media outlets for calling her live-show great, when, in Elton's view, it's not live. This is a different point.

.

I completely agree. I mean, if you bought tickets to the New York Philharmonic and you sit, watching the cellist pretend to play while there's a backing-track playing over the speakers, did you get your money's worth? No, you didn't. Why should a 'pop' show be any different?

.

Some of you might have a different viewpoint and simply want to see a famous person in the flesh, and watch a dance and light show. I don't.

.

Elton comes from the 1950s/60s school of musicianship, which was based on... musicianship. I'm pretty sure Prince would agree with Elton on this, for what it's worth.

Apple and oranges. The New York Philharmonic sits on it's ass for two hours (just like Elton John... he wouldn't last 10 minutes dancing and live singing). Janet is dancing for two hours. And even if not every vocal is live. It still is a live show. She sings occasionally live, she dances live, the background singers sings live and her musicians play live.

So yes, in an ideal world the singing would be live too 100% and maybe she could sing more live than she supposedly does, but then there would be lesss dancing and for a visual artist like Janet, dancing is a big part of her show. So really, the discussion is flawed.

If you can't appreciate the full package, then don't go to her show. Most people who go to see her, would be disappointed if the dancing would be sacrificed for the live singing.

[Edited 3/1/16 2:57am]

PREACH!! Michael died trying to put on a "Live show" because of this exact reason...not wanting to dissapoint his peers/fans. If you have never performed a high energy concert like MJ/Janet then you don't need to be bitching about her lip-syncing. I've gone to the Unbreakable tour already and I know for a fact Janet is singing live most of IF not ALL of this show...Elton is going off of what she's done in the past. She's not dancing as hard NOW which allows her to sing more. But do you think he bothered to research to see if she was actually lip-synching this time around?

Seems like people won't be satisfied until Janet is forced into an eary grave like her bro was (God Bless his soul)

SoulAlive said:

Militant said:

Elton didn't seem to have a problem with Janet when they recorded this duet.

I think it's chickenshit to ask someone to do a duet with you,then turn around and diss them years later He's a very nasty person with no decency whatsoever.

I agree, its very fake.

There is a double standard when it comes to this issue. Its not fair how Janet, Britney etc are always called out for this but someone like Beyonce (who mimes more than what people give her credit for) can get away with it. Regardless whether Janet mimes or not is irrelevant. Elton did not have to mention her name. Janet is not in the news nor are people hailing her as a great live singer so there was no reason to bring her up. The fact that he did a song with Janet a while back makes Elton a fake, a bully and an asshole

mjscarousal said:

There is a double standard when it comes to this issue. Its not fair how Janet, Britney etc are always called out for this but someone like Beyonce (who mimes more than what people give her credit for) can get away with it. Regardless whether Janet mimes or not is irrelevant. Elton did not have to mention her name. Janet is not in the news nor are people hailing her as a great live singer so there was no reason to bring her up. The fact that he did a song with Janet a while back makes Elton a fake, a bully and an asshole

at least britney tightened uo her ass..if u believe those pics..

[Edited 3/2/16 17:12pm]

SoulAlive said:

Britney Spears is a talentless puppet.

True, in that she doesn't sing live or have much role in creating her own music. But what other people create for her can be great!

I would rather listen to Blackout than any album by Janet or Beyonce.

SoulAlive said:

Britney Spears is a talentless puppet.

Glindathegood said:

SoulAlive said:

Britney Spears is a talentless puppet.

True, in that she doesn't sing live or have much role in creating her own music. But what other people create for her can be great!

I would rather listen to Blackout than any album by Janet or Beyonce.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that BUT I do agree Britney has a good catalog that is very underrated. In The Zone is a really great pop album imho.

The problem with Elton is that he is resentful of successful female pop icons. They have the large gay following that he dreams of. He feels entitled being a huge gay icon because he's gay. But gay men don't relate to him on that level. They see him as bitchy, spoiled and self entitled. That's not an empowering figure to look up to.

He's a rock icon and he should be satisfied with being one of the few remaining. However he still thinks of himself as having to compete for the younger generation's attention by collaborating with younger female pop stars on stage. However he doesn't value any of their talent of performance skills. He just wants the attention they're receiving.

Being an aging rock star has been very hard for Elton. He can't stand it and he lashes out constantly because of it.

It's probably a good thing she doesn't use computers, given how social media is now. Some musicians can really get messed up reading the malicious things people write about them online.

For most musicians, going on social media and reading comments is not a good thing. Either they get fans telling them everything they do is perfect and they are geniuses who can do no wrong or they get hateful vicious comments which will make them upset. So there really isn't an upside to it for famous celebrities or musicians. Either it makes them arrogant or insecure/depressed.

Britney actually sounds quite intelligent and level headed in that interview.

[Edited 3/4/16 6:15am]

PatrickS77 said:

Apple and oranges. The New York Philharmonic sits on it's ass for two hours (just like Elton John... he wouldn't last 10 minutes dancing and live singing). Janet is dancing for two hours. And even if not every vocal is live. It still is a live show. She sings occasionally live, she dances live, the background singers sings live and her musicians play live.

If you can't appreciate the full package, then don't go to her show. Most people who go to see her, would be disappointed if the dancing would be sacrificed for the live singing.

[Edited 3/1/16 2:57am]

Yeah, I think the "Janet is dancing for two hours" is sort-of the key part that Elton John doesn't appreciate. He doesn't understand a music show based on dancing. And when he has seen dancing and music together, it's been live.

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As it happens, I agree with him (as would Prince). You certainly couldn't pay me to go to a Janet Jackson show.

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I would suggest that the people who would be "disappointed if the dancing would be sacrificed for the live singing" are not really music fans -- they're fans of pop spectacles. Which is fine, but it's just a different thing from what real musicians like Elton John respect.

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By the way, Prince was able to dance and sing live.

[Edited 3/4/16 19:50pm]

SoulAlive said:

Elton should just simply go to the type of shows that he prefers and don't worry about what other artists choose to do during their shows.Problem solved

Then it should be applied in ALL situations to ALL artists not just when ONE artist says something about another artist WE like. So if Prince comments on the state of music some of it not being "real" music will we too say Prince shut up and do your thing? Bowie saying all music on the radio is crap, hmmm I dont remember Bowie being called out? Or Chaka or Angie Stone who both comment on the current RB ladies and state of RB? Opinions will always exist and artists will always have them and say them more than others.

ThePanther said:

mancabdriver said:

My god you're patronizing. Why didn't MJ get called out for his blatant lip syncing from 90 onwards? We live in such a sexist society. A woman can't be respected unless she looks like Patti Smith I guess.

Yeah, because male artists never get called out. For example, Milli Vanilli.

lastdecember said:

SoulAlive said:

Elton should just simply go to the type of shows that he prefers and don't worry about what other artists choose to do during their shows.Problem solved

Then it should be applied in ALL situations to ALL artists not just when ONE artist says something about another artist WE like. So if Prince comments on the state of music some of it not being "real" music will we too say Prince shut up and do your thing? Bowie saying all music on the radio is crap, hmmm I dont remember Bowie being called out? Or Chaka or Angie Stone who both comment on the current RB ladies and state of RB? Opinions will always exist and artists will always have them and say them more than others.

The problem with Elton is...he's a very nasty person who likes to pick fights with other artists.I remember many years ago when he and Tina Turner were supposed to duet on a VH-1 Divas show.He was really mean and controlling,so Tina got really pissed at him I mentioned earier that Elton is a big drama queen.This isn't just about Elton being against lip-syncing.He's got a long history of having "drama" with other artists.

ThePanther said:

mancabdriver said:

ThePanther said:

Yeah, because male artists never get called out. For example, Milli Vanilli.

Are you seriously comparing lip syncing to attempting to pass someone else's voice as your own? I'm sure you're just being your cheeky and mysoginistc self, but If you are too thick to see the difference then there's no point reasoning with you.

Mancabdriver -- Have you mistaken me for the neighborhood bully who stole your little red wagon or something?

Let's summarize our exchange so far: Because I agree with Elton John's casual comment that singers who lip-synch should not win titles as "best live performers", you have concluded that I'm not only "patronising" and "cheeky", but now I'm also misogynist.

Excellent work there.

SoulAlive said:

lastdecember said:

Then it should be applied in ALL situations to ALL artists not just when ONE artist says something about another artist WE like. So if Prince comments on the state of music some of it not being "real" music will we too say Prince shut up and do your thing? Bowie saying all music on the radio is crap, hmmm I dont remember Bowie being called out? Or Chaka or Angie Stone who both comment on the current RB ladies and state of RB? Opinions will always exist and artists will always have them and say them more than others.

The problem with Elton is...he's a very nasty person who likes to pick fights with other artists.I remember many years ago when he and Tina Turner were supposed to duet on a VH-1 Divas show.He was really mean and controlling,so Tina got really pissed at him I mentioned earier that Elton is a big drama queen.This isn't just about Elton being against lip-syncing.He's got a long history of having "drama" with other artists.

Well thats true and not true, the incident with Madonna can be viewed as that but also she had an earlier shot at him. The Billy Joel and George Michael issues I discount because he was coming from a place where he had seen drugs kill everyone and he honestly has said he should have been one casaulity. I understand them saying they wished he didnt do things in public, true, but they are all very public people and media sit by and wait for something to go on with Elton especially. HOWEVER I will stand by the fact that he is the most open minded artist about all new music since he buys and listens to it all. ANd like Bowie, he pointed out bands like Grandaddy and Flaming Lips etc....when no one was.

How about Elton just needs to stfu. He is a bully and old bitter queen. There was NO reason to come for Janet.

jayaredee said:

The problem with Elton is that he is resentful of successful female pop icons. They have the large gay following that he dreams of. He feels entitled being a huge gay icon because he's gay. But gay men don't relate to him on that level. They see him as bitchy, spoiled and self entitled. That's not an empowering figure to look up to.

He's a rock icon and he should be satisfied with being one of the few remaining. However he still thinks of himself as having to compete for the younger generation's attention by collaborating with younger female pop stars on stage. However he doesn't value any of their talent of performance skills. He just wants the attention they're receiving.

Being an aging rock star has been very hard for Elton. He can't stand it and he lashes out constantly because of it.

I think you might be on to something. He is always bashing Madonna or Janet. He even shaded Whitney too but he LOVES Gaga?

new thread

[Edited 3/9/16 9:03am]

PatrickS77 said:

ThePanther said:

100% agree with Elton John.

.

I think some of you are in such a rush to label him a bitter old man (which may be true) that you're completely missing his point. He's not criticizing Janet Jackson, per se, and he's certainly not saying she's talentless, a poor artist, or anything of the sort. He is criticizing media outlets for calling her live-show great, when, in Elton's view, it's not live. This is a different point.

.

I completely agree. I mean, if you bought tickets to the New York Philharmonic and you sit, watching the cellist pretend to play while there's a backing-track playing over the speakers, did you get your money's worth? No, you didn't. Why should a 'pop' show be any different?

.

Some of you might have a different viewpoint and simply want to see a famous person in the flesh, and watch a dance and light show. I don't.

.

Elton comes from the 1950s/60s school of musicianship, which was based on... musicianship. I'm pretty sure Prince would agree with Elton on this, for what it's worth.

Apple and oranges. The New York Philharmonic sits on it's ass for two hours (just like Elton John... he wouldn't last 10 minutes dancing and live singing). Janet is dancing for two hours. And even if not every vocal is live. It still is a live show. She sings occasionally live, she dances live, the background singers sings live and her musicians play live.

So yes, in an ideal world the singing would be live too 100% and maybe she could sing more live than she supposedly does, but then there would be lesss dancing and for a visual artist like Janet, dancing is a big part of her show. So really, the discussion is flawed.

If you can't appreciate the full package, then don't go to her show. Most people who go to see her, would be disappointed if the dancing would be sacrificed for the live singing.

[Edited 3/1/16 2:57am]

As I said before, if I wanted to see mainly dancing, I would buy a ticket to Alvin Ailey or the Joffrey Ballet