There's a case for arguing they pioneered the metal genre with helter skelter, dance music with tomorrow never knows, lo-fi with long long long and fuck rock with good morning good morning. Aside from that they were without doubt the best band of the 60s (decade in which most new developments in music occurred) and possibly the greatest band ever. Why wouldn't they have impacted music since?

Shawy89 said:

I think with facebook and social media, the current & next generations will basically be aware of many legends in the making.

Take David Bowie for example, dude was only known in the UK & some parts of the US, his death made him more famous in many other countries..

I just saw a video of David Bowie performing in front of thousands of people in Germany. I also believe he was popular in Latin America too...

teezee said:

NorthC said:

Thanks for your comment, teezee. Just out of curiosity, where do you live?

Latin America Won't say which country for fear of being tracked down by ppl who dwell too much on the internet. As I stated before, I don't think MJ has had that kind of impact on a worldwide scale. Quite frankly, I think he's being overrated by mostly US fanatics. Though he is this world's most famous dancer and performer, I'll give you that Bob Marley's music however is much more in tune with the world. His lyrics resonate to people of all races and social-statuses. My pops showed me his music when i was small, and later i kept hearing it on the radio too. During my high school years i could spot at least 10 potheads within my school that were repping that Rastafarian lifestyle He is the Reggae icon, the original mothafucka who popularized the whole style and persona of a lazy pothead, but also he's much more than that. He's undoubtedly the voice of peace and love in music. He gives good vibes wherever you are, his lyrics are simple and easy to sing along to. I don't think that low-income struggling people want to hear much about The Beatles or Michael Jackson. They want those good vibes that'll get them through the end of the day. They want to hear 'No Woman No Cry', 'Jammin', 'Is This Love', 'Three Little Birds', 'Buffalo Soldier', etc

I think if your parents would have played more Michael Jackson music you would have a different opinion. Enjoy the videos below! I have nothing against Bob Marley but I think MJ had a global impact that won't ever be matched. Is everyone forgetting that Thriller is the all-time best selling album ever??

[Edited 2/20/16 18:11pm]

[Edited 2/20/16 18:19pm]

SeventeenDayze said:

Shawy89 said:

Yes, anybody who says otherwise clearly has no idea how far these guys went...

They impacted the music as an art and as a form of entertainement.

Helter Skelter was probably the first "heavy metal" song even if it wasn't labeled as such at the time it was released.

Revolver, Sgt Pepper, Rubber Soul were albums that defined a whole era of music, let alone the fact that those albums saw The Beatles explore new heights musically, lyrically and sonically. (Even if The Beach Boys' Pet Sounds was essential in establishing that sound that was a hybrid of baroque music, psychedelic rock, chamber pop...etc, yet, The Beatles done it best)

Basically, when you talk about the 60's and the counterculture of the 60's, you had to talk about black people's rights movements, JFK's assassination, Cuban war, Moon landing AND The Beatles' arrival in America.

Good points but would you say that the Beatles impact was mostly within that generation alone though? What I am getting at is this....beyond the 60s and early 70s did the Beatles continue to impact music? Can you point to any modern artists of today that are clearly copying The Beatles? I can't think of any off hand. But, I can think of many artists of today who are still clearly influenced by Michael Jackson and I think 50 years from now there will still be artists influenced by Michael Jackson. I think when it comes to long term impact, there's no question that the Beatles can't touch Michael when it comes to that.

I really think you need to broaden your music genre choices! Tame Impala, The Flaming Lips, of Montreal, St. Vincent, Sujan Stevens, hell even Miley Cyrus have all been influenced by The Beatles and are all current artists. Sure, they may not blatanly COPY The Beatles like say Chris Brown or The Weeknd have copied Michael Jackson, but to say the current generation of musicians aren't influenced by them is ridiculous.

KlyphIsBackAgain said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Good points but would you say that the Beatles impact was mostly within that generation alone though? What I am getting at is this....beyond the 60s and early 70s did the Beatles continue to impact music? Can you point to any modern artists of today that are clearly copying The Beatles? I can't think of any off hand. But, I can think of many artists of today who are still clearly influenced by Michael Jackson and I think 50 years from now there will still be artists influenced by Michael Jackson. I think when it comes to long term impact, there's no question that the Beatles can't touch Michael when it comes to that.

I really think you need to broaden your music genre choices! Tame Impala, The Flaming Lips, of Montreal, St. Vincent, Sujan Stevens, hell even Miley Cyrus have all been influenced by The Beatles and are all current artists. Sure, they may not blatanly COPY The Beatles like say Chris Brown or The Weeknd have copied Michael Jackson, but to say the current generation of musicians aren't influenced by them is ridiculous.

Miley Cyrus? Geez. I'm not even gonna go there with you. Sorry but it seems to me that the past two decades that rock music has taken a back seat to hip-hop....

Shawy89 said:

Yes, anybody who says otherwise clearly has no idea how far these guys went...

They impacted the music as an art and as a form of entertainement.

Helter Skelter was probably the first "heavy metal" song even if it wasn't labeled as such at the time it was released.

Revolver, Sgt Pepper, Rubber Soul were albums that defined a whole era of music, let alone the fact that those albums saw The Beatles explore new heights musically, lyrically and sonically. (Even if The Beach Boys' Pet Sounds was essential in establishing that sound that was a hybrid of baroque music, psychedelic rock, chamber pop...etc, yet, The Beatles done it best)

Basically, when you talk about the 60's and the counterculture of the 60's, you had to talk about black people's rights movements, JFK's assassination, Cuban war, Moon landing AND The Beatles' arrival in America.

The Beatles banned segregated audiences, contract shows

: http://www.bbc.com/news/e...s-14963752

18 September 2011

The Beatles showed their support for the US civil rights movement by refusing to play in front of segregated audiences, a contract shows.

The document, which is to be auctioned next week, relates a 1965 concert at the Cow Palace in California.

Signed by manager Brian Epstein, it specifies that The Beatles "not be required to perform in front of a segregated audience".

The agreement also guarantees the band payment of $40,000 (£25,338).

Other requirements include a special drumming platform for Ringo Starr and the provision of 150 uniformed police officers for protection.

But the security arrangements were not perfect.

The band played two sets, a matinee and an evening performance, at the venue on 31 August, 1965. At the latter, some of the 17,000-strong crowd broke through security barriers and rushed the stage.

The show was halted, and The Beatles were forced to wait backstage while order was restored.

They eventually finished their 12-song set with Help! followed by its B-side, I'm Down.

The Beatles had previously taken a public stand on civil rights in 1964, when they refused to perform at a segregated concert at the Gator Bowl in Jacksonville, Florida.

City officials relented, allowing the stadium to be integrated, and the band took to the stage.

"We never play to segregated audiences and we aren't going to start now," said John Lennon. "I'd sooner lose our appearance money."

The struggle for racial equality in America later inspired Paul McCartney to write Blackbird.

the beatles impact was also a social impact in the world of music

[Edited 2/20/16 19:29pm]

SeventeenDayze said:

EmmaMcG said:

In terms of influencing younger people to become musicians I think the Beatles had a big impact due to the fact they were VERY popular. They were everywhere so it stands to reason they influenced young people of the era. As for having a big impact on the sound of music that followed, I don't think they had THAT big an impact because a lot of music the Beatles did wasn't new or original so the young musicians at the time who were encouraged to get into music by The Beatles had their sound influenced by the black acts that influenced the Beatles. Unfortunately there was a lot of great black singers at the time doing this music who didn't get airplay precisely because they were black. The Beatles were fans of "black music" and when they did it, they were popular. I think had the world been more enlightened the black acts would have been more popular and the Beatles would have been seen as just another RockNroll band. As a side note, I must confess that having listened to every Beatles album, I really struggle to see what the big deal is. Honestly, I think they're one of the most overrated bands of all time. John Lennon and George Harrison was better solo.

I agree. I think it's obvious that their music helped define their generation but in terms of originality, their earlier music was basically copied from Little Richard, The Isley Brothers, etc. There are people in this thread (and of course in this country) who have a big problem with acknowledging this as fact. There's nothing wrong with the fact that they were fans of black music and of course no one can predict what will happen once a band is created and an album is released but it would be really silly to assume that the Beatles success wasn't a direct result of them copying black artists. There are a lot of music critics who have said the Beatles were overrated so you're not the only one who thinks that. I don't think the musical sound of the Beatles had the same longevity and cultural significance that music such as James Brown did. After all, James Brown's music gave birth to hip-hop. That's an entire genre of music influenced by James Brown. The Beatles didn't do that.

I know of no major music critic who has said the Beatles were "overrated" (though some now think the "Sgt Pepper" album was overrated. To say there aren't many current artists are "influenced" by the Beatles to prove that they were not that great is like saying not that many artists today are influenced by Beethoven or Miles Davis or Woody Guthrie...what is going on today does not take away the greatness of any of these artists

SeventeenDayze said:

jjhunsecker said:

If you listen to the early Beatles recordings, yes, they are "simple", because they were emulating and were influenced by the pop and rock and r&B music that came before them- Elvis, Buddy Holly, Smokey Robinson, the Isley Brothers, Girl Groups, Chuck Berry, Carl Perkins, Little Richard. But as time went on, their music became more complex, and they ventured far out of the mainstream. Have you heard "Revolver" or "The White Album" ? Do you know "Tomorrow Never Knows" or "A Day in the Life" or "Within You Withou You" or "I Want You" or "Happiness is a Warm Gun" or even "Hey Jude" (at the time the longest single ever released)....or even someting like "Revolution #9" ??? The amazing thing was that such challenging music WAS also massively successful (which is probably a comment on that era as opposed to the current day, where the biggest hits are usually the simplest, and where people think Nicki Manaj and Kanye West actually have talent....)

Did you really put Kanye West and Nicki Minaj in the same sentence? Kanye is really talented. Not sure he's a musical "genius" as some in the industry have said but there's no denying he's very creative.

Kanye is nowhere near as talented as he constantly says that he is. You can't speak his name in the same sentence as Stevie Wonder, Curtis Mayfield, Jimi Hendrix, Marvin Gaye, ...and yes, The Beatles

jjhunsecker said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Did you really put Kanye West and Nicki Minaj in the same sentence? Kanye is really talented. Not sure he's a musical "genius" as some in the industry have said but there's no denying he's very creative.

Kanye is nowhere near as talented as he constantly says that he is. You can't speak his name in the same sentence as Stevie Wonder, Curtis Mayfield, Jimi Hendrix, Marvin Gaye, ...and yes, The Beatles

I think Kanye is very innovative when it comes to sound. For example...

jjhunsecker said:

SeventeenDayze said:

I agree. I think it's obvious that their music helped define their generation but in terms of originality, their earlier music was basically copied from Little Richard, The Isley Brothers, etc. There are people in this thread (and of course in this country) who have a big problem with acknowledging this as fact. There's nothing wrong with the fact that they were fans of black music and of course no one can predict what will happen once a band is created and an album is released but it would be really silly to assume that the Beatles success wasn't a direct result of them copying black artists. There are a lot of music critics who have said the Beatles were overrated so you're not the only one who thinks that. I don't think the musical sound of the Beatles had the same longevity and cultural significance that music such as James Brown did. After all, James Brown's music gave birth to hip-hop. That's an entire genre of music influenced by James Brown. The Beatles didn't do that.

I know of no major music critic who has said the Beatles were "overrated" (though some now think the "Sgt Pepper" album was overrated. To say there aren't many current artists are "influenced" by the Beatles to prove that they were not that great is like saying not that many artists today are influenced by Beethoven or Miles Davis or Woody Guthrie...what is going on today does not take away the greatness of any of these artists

I've most certainly heard others say the Beatles were overrated.

SeventeenDayze said:

jjhunsecker said:

Kanye is nowhere near as talented as he constantly says that he is. You can't speak his name in the same sentence as Stevie Wonder, Curtis Mayfield, Jimi Hendrix, Marvin Gaye, ...and yes, The Beatles

I think Kanye is very innovative when it comes to sound. For example...

You like this, but can't hear the innovation of sound the Beatles made with "Tomorrow Never knows" and "Strawberry Fields Forever" and "Day Tripper" and "Ticket to Ride" and "A Day in the Life" ??

SoulAlive said:

My opinion is the Beatles are one of the greatest bands of all time.There's no need to analyze or debate it.Either you like them or you don't.

This pretty much sums it up.

SeventeenDayze said:

jjhunsecker said:

I know of no major music critic who has said the Beatles were "overrated" (though some now think the "Sgt Pepper" album was overrated. To say there aren't many current artists are "influenced" by the Beatles to prove that they were not that great is like saying not that many artists today are influenced by Beethoven or Miles Davis or Woody Guthrie...what is going on today does not take away the greatness of any of these artists

I've most certainly heard others say the Beatles were overrated.

Tell me one major critic who has said this (not individual albums or songs, but their whole output)

SeventeenDayze said:

KlyphIsBackAgain said:

I really think you need to broaden your music genre choices! Tame Impala, The Flaming Lips, of Montreal, St. Vincent, Sujan Stevens, hell even Miley Cyrus have all been influenced by The Beatles and are all current artists. Sure, they may not blatanly COPY The Beatles like say Chris Brown or The Weeknd have copied Michael Jackson, but to say the current generation of musicians aren't influenced by them is ridiculous.

Miley Cyrus? Geez. I'm not even gonna go there with you. Sorry but it seems to me that the past two decades that rock music has taken a back seat to hip-hop....

Hip Hop is more popular these days, but in my opinion most of it is junk. Just my opinion- no right or wrong about it

jjhunsecker said:

SeventeenDayze said:

I think Kanye is very innovative when it comes to sound. For example...

You like this, but can't hear the innovation of sound the Beatles made with "Tomorrow Never knows" and "Strawberry Fields Forever" and "Day Tripper" and "Ticket to Ride" and "A Day in the Life" ??

So you just glossed over the fact that I said I like the Sgt. Pepper's album huh?

jjhunsecker said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Miley Cyrus? Geez. I'm not even gonna go there with you. Sorry but it seems to me that the past two decades that rock music has taken a back seat to hip-hop....

Hip Hop is more popular these days, but in my opinion most of it is junk. Just my opinion- no right or wrong about it

Most of hip hop is junk? Who are you listening to? There is still good hip-hop out there. As far as your other post, I've heard many people say they thought the Beatles were overrated. You're in disbelief about this for some reason?

SeventeenDayze said:

jjhunsecker said:

You like this, but can't hear the innovation of sound the Beatles made with "Tomorrow Never knows" and "Strawberry Fields Forever" and "Day Tripper" and "Ticket to Ride" and "A Day in the Life" ??

So you just glossed over the fact that I said I like the Sgt. Pepper's album huh?

I must have missed it...actually that is the ONE Beatles album I DO think is overrated

jjhunsecker said:

SeventeenDayze said:

So you just glossed over the fact that I said I like the Sgt. Pepper's album huh?

I must have missed it...actually that is the ONE Beatles album I DO think is overrated

Really? I think that album was their best. I think their earlier stuff was "cute" but it was basically a bunch of covers by other artists. But, I think their true sound, if you will, was Sgt. Peppers.

SeventeenDayze said:

jjhunsecker said:

Hip Hop is more popular these days, but in my opinion most of it is junk. Just my opinion- no right or wrong about it

Most of hip hop is junk? Who are you listening to? There is still good hip-hop out there. As far as your other post, I've heard many people say they thought the Beatles were overrated. You're in disbelief about this for some reason?

There might be "people" who say the Beatles were overrated, but I don't know of any major pop music critic who has said this .

I'm not a fan of most Hip-hop music. It might be generational- I was raised in an era that prized musicianship, which I don't hear in most Hip-Hop, with it's reliance on sampling. It's just not my thing ,,,not saying that others shouldn't like it. I also have a cultural issue with a lot of Hip-Hop as well, but that's another story

SeventeenDayze said:

jjhunsecker said:

I must have missed it...actually that is the ONE Beatles album I DO think is overrated

Really? I think that album was their best. I think their earlier stuff was "cute" but it was basically a bunch of covers by other artists. But, I think their true sound, if you will, was Sgt. Peppers.

I think "Revolver" was their best album, followed by "The White Album", "Abbey Road" and "Rubber Soul"

jjhunsecker said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Most of hip hop is junk? Who are you listening to? There is still good hip-hop out there. As far as your other post, I've heard many people say they thought the Beatles were overrated. You're in disbelief about this for some reason?

There might be "people" who say the Beatles were overrated, but I don't know of any major pop music critic who has said this .

I'm not a fan of most Hip-hop music. It might be generational- I was raised in an era that prized musicianship, which I don't hear in most Hip-Hop, with it's reliance on sampling. It's just not my thing ,,,not saying that others shouldn't like it. I also have a cultural issue with a lot of Hip-Hop as well, but that's another story

Oh please, anyone with a Wordpress blog can be a "critic" these days That's not such a big deal anymore. Everyone has an opinion....anyway, this song isn't new by any means but perhaps you like this style of hip-hop moreso than say Future, Migos or Rich Homie Quan (the guys who are dominating right now with trap music)

nd33 said:

I'm sorry, I do t have time to read these 7 pages, but probably their biggest direct influence was in their songwriting. These guys just had a knack for writing tunes that people from the widest corners of the musical world love. All the greats covered Beatles tunes. From Stevie Wonder, to Hendrix, to Ray Charles, to Sinatra and it goes on and on.....That's all the evidence you need.

The reasons that these songs were covered is because they were simple songs and they were popular. It is an overstatement to say they were anything but.

SeventeenDayze said:

Okay, so the British Invasion was DECADES before my time but I have often wondered if the Beatles were a product of media hype/PR machine or did they have a bonafide impact on music. I'm not talking about whether or not they had scores of screaming, fainting fans (they did obviously) but did they have an impact on music? I see an artist like David Bowie who obviously had a huge impact on the direction of music in the 70s but I don't know if I'm convinced the Beatles had that much of an impact. I welcome the comments from those old enough to remember that era and/or music historians (Yes, that means YOU MickeyDolenz)

yep.

SeventeenDayze said:

NorthC said:

George Clinton, James Brown, Jimi Hendrix, Stevie Wonder, Prince, they all covered Beatles songs. Asking if The Beatles influenced music is like asking if Mozart or Miles Davis influenced music. It's like asking if Picasso influenced art. It's like asking if Jesus influenced religion. It's like asking if Shakespeare influenced literature. It's like asking if Henry Ford influenced the car industry. Another example: two years ago I travelled through Peru and Bolivia. I never heared a lot of pop/rock music except... guess who... And guess who did a concert in Lima... Paul McCartney.

You DO realize that The Beatles and Rolling Stones ALL credited singers such as Little Richard and Chuck Berry right???? I would also argue that Michael Jackson had a more global impact than the Beatles.

This comes form not understanding what was going on musically BEFORE these guys made their mark.
Anyone you cite today would not be doing what they are doing without bands that took risks.

Zannaloaf said:

SeventeenDayze said:

You DO realize that The Beatles and Rolling Stones ALL credited singers such as Little Richard and Chuck Berry right???? I would also argue that Michael Jackson had a more global impact than the Beatles.

This comes form not understanding what was going on musically BEFORE these guys made their mark.
Anyone you cite today would not be doing what they are doing without bands that took risks.

So what exactly was going on before this band?? Are you seriously trying to convince me that the artists who came before them, the artists that they COPIED, the artists who were the innovators of rock had no impact???? This is ridiculous. I would imagine that if the Beatles were a black band some of you wouldn't be so defensive of them. Real talk.

fortuneandserendipity said:

There's a case for arguing they pioneered the metal genre with helter skelter, dance music with tomorrow never knows, lo-fi with long long long and fuck rock with good morning good morning. Aside from that they were without doubt the best band of the 60s (decade in which most new developments in music occurred) and possibly the greatest band ever. Why wouldn't they have impacted music since?

They never tried to take credit for funk, for instance. But the rock and pop music that followed The Beatles was definitely influenced by their work, especially the experimental stuff, which actually there is a lot of in the later years!

the beatles never failed to give tribute to the black artist they admired as well as greatly influcenced their sound.

How The Beatles Reinterpreted Black Music

: http://werehistory.org/the-beatles/

excerpt:

Lennon, in particular, was outspoken on the impact black artists had on his music. In the aftermath of The Beatles’ breakup, the New York Times published a piece entitled “So in the End, the Beatles Have Proved False Prophets,” accusing the band, among other things, of making off with black music for their own benefit. Lennon would respond with a note written on an airplane taking the author to task. “We didn’t sing our own songs in the early days – they weren’t good enough,” Lennon remarked, “the one thing we always did was to make it known that there were black originals, we loved the music and wanted to spread it in any way we could.”

thusly, their reinterpretations of black blues and r&b music was much appreciated and hailed by a majority of white youth at the time. the beatles garnared a huge following. a following that greatly impacted the world of music. the beatles really opened up a world of information of black american music to young white youths and musicians at the time.

imo it's not about denigrating them for their courage to appreciate and reinterpret a music genre. thay brought many black artist to the forefront. before the beatles did what they did in music many of important black blues and r&b artist would have remained in a near dormant status.

even Jimi Hendrix relied on a variety of black blues artists for inspiration, yet he is not disrespected for reinterpreting the same. is it because jimi is black and not white?

do those who constantly put the beatles down give jimi a pass for doing the same exact thing the beatles did?

(by the way i luv and greatly respect jimi hendrix also for his impact on music)

i truly believe in the fact that:

and we should aspire to believe

[Edited 2/21/16 10:08am]

free2bfreeda said:

the beatles never failed to give tribute to the black artist they admired as well as greatly influcenced their sound.

The Beatles weren't only influenced by R&B though. They've also credited acts like Roy Orbison, Carl Perkins, Buck Owens, & Everly Brothers. They remade Buck's Act Naturally and Ringo duetted with Buck in the 1980s. Roy was in the Travelling Wilburys with George. You can also hear music hall/showtunes in songs like Honey Pie, When I'm Sixty Four, & Maxwell's Silver Hammer. Paul's father played in a jazz band, and this influenced Paul to some extent. Ringo was a fan of blues & country. You can hear a country flavor in Octopus' Garden. There's also a Latin music influence in some of Ringo's drum patterns like And I Love Her. George was the Indian music fan. The group (John in particular) has also said their contemporary Bob Dylan influenced them. The Beatles started out playing skiffle music as The Quarrymen. Skiffle is a music style that is similar to the USA jug bands from the 1920s & 30s (because of homemade instruments).