hausofmoi7 said:

the Beatles are not the cultural icons of music within those countries, its more a niche thing with the Beatles or a 70's fad thing that didn't last culturally. in many places there are local/regional artists and legends anyway. Michael Jackson is still huge in those places.

Being an icon and being known are 2 different things. You said The Beatles are not known in Africa like nobody there has heard of them.

SeventeenDayze said:

hausofmoi7 said:

SeventeenDayze said:

I can't think of any other ethnic group apart from Black Americans that have had their music routinely co-opted yet do not receive the same amount of "credit" for said cultural/artistic contributions to society. It's baffling. It's almost as if music contributions "don't count" unless they are accepted and then imitated by European counterparts. The Beatles, Stones, David Bowie, etc. have all said they were inspired by Little Richard, Chuck Berry, etc.

agreed. When you also take into account that "music" is america's second biggest export (after weapons) the contribution of A.A's to America via music is bigger than just cultural.

You know when those magazines publish their "100 Greatest Rock Stars" I don't think I've ever seen a black artist at the top of the list. Not Jimi Hendrix, not James Brown, not Prince, not Michael Jackson. It's always Elvis, the Beatles, Eric Clapton, etc. Maybe I missed a year when this wasn't the case but for the few times I've seen those articles I noticed a pattern that black artists were routinely NOT placed in the top position.

MickyDolenz said:

hausofmoi7 said:

the Beatles are not the cultural icons of music within those countries, its more a niche thing with the Beatles or a 70's fad thing that didn't last culturally. in many places there are local/regional artists and legends anyway. Michael Jackson is still huge in those places.

Being an icon and being known are 2 different things. You said The Beatles are not known in Africa like nobody there has heard of them.

So would you say that the Beatles are more loved in Africa than Michael Jackson?

SeventeenDayze said:

So would you say that the Beatles are more loved in Africa than Michael Jackson?

Neither, it's James Brown

MickyDolenz said:

SeventeenDayze said:

So would you say that the Beatles are more loved in Africa than Michael Jackson?

Neither, it's James Brown

Interesting....why is that?

AND EVEN 'PRINCE' GIVES TRIBUTE TO THE BEATLES

plse n joy the universal impact of the beatles for all people who appreciate good music no matter the racial origin.

thank you beatles and those who inspired you.

so did many others in the music world - black/white/asian/native american/hispanic/etc. however this thread is primarily about the beatles. it's not about denigrating the impact they made upon the world of music. i choose to appreciate the beatles because i am free to be free in my pov.

no matter who did what the music is here and now.

equal appreciation of the music is my m. o.

i choose to 'let it be'

[Edited 2/19/16 23:44pm]

Wow, seems like someone in this thread just CAN'T admit that black artists introduced a sound that ALL races of people loved...for some reason the Beatles are being credited with "bringing the races together"? WTF? Anyway, let's not get sidetracked by the obvious troll on this thread.

SeventeenDayze said:

You know when those magazines publish their "100 Greatest Rock Stars" I don't think I've ever seen a black artist at the top of the list. Not Jimi Hendrix, not James Brown, not Prince, not Michael Jackson. It's always Elvis, the Beatles, Eric Clapton, etc. Maybe I missed a year when this wasn't the case but for the few times I've seen those articles I noticed a pattern that black artists were routinely NOT placed in the top position.

Well why do many blacks in the US people consider rock to be "white music"? You don't see Jimi Hendrix mentioned a lot in Ebony magazine or BET. Fishbone doesn't get played on R&B stations. Eric Clapton is more known to the average reader of Rolling Stone than whoever influenced him. Led Zeppelin is more known than Howlin Wolf. So of course they're going to be mentioned in a rock magazine with primarily white readers.

MickyDolenz said:

SeventeenDayze said:

You know when those magazines publish their "100 Greatest Rock Stars" I don't think I've ever seen a black artist at the top of the list. Not Jimi Hendrix, not James Brown, not Prince, not Michael Jackson. It's always Elvis, the Beatles, Eric Clapton, etc. Maybe I missed a year when this wasn't the case but for the few times I've seen those articles I noticed a pattern that black artists were routinely NOT placed in the top position.

Well why do many blacks in the US people consider rock to be "white music"? You don't see Jimi Hendrix mentioned a lot in Ebony magazine or BET. Fishbone doesn't get played on R&B stations. Eric Clapton is more known to the average reader of Rolling Stone than whoever influenced him. Led Zeppelin is more known than Howlin Wolf. So of course they're going to be mentioned in a rock magazine with primarily white readers.

http://www.ebony.com/black-listed/entertainment-culture/andre-3000-leads-jimi-hendrix-biopic

SeventeenDayze said:

http://www.ebony.com/black-listed/entertainment-culture/andre-3000-leads-jimi-hendrix-biopic

Is that about Jimi himself or Andre 3000 playing him? What about black people calling rock "white music"?

MickyDolenz said:

SeventeenDayze said:

http://www.ebony.com/black-listed/entertainment-culture/andre-3000-leads-jimi-hendrix-biopic

Is that about Jimi himself or Andre 3000 playing him? What about black people calling rock "white music"?

I don't get it. I provide responses backed up with videos and/or articles and the goalposts keep getting shifted here Now you're blaming blacks for the fact that rock is considered "white" music?

Damn, music is more segregated and stratified than ever...and so are people's understanding of the nature of music.

purplethunder3121 said:

Damn, music is more segregated and stratified than ever...and so are people's understanding of the nature of music.

Yeah I was watching a video clip of a Grammy's awards show and it was from like 1984 or something and the category was "Best Black Album"...amazing.

SeventeenDayze said:

I don't get it. I provide responses backed up with videos and/or articles and the goalposts keep getting shifted here Now you're blaming blacks for the fact that rock is considered "white" music?

I said Jimi isn't mentioned much in Ebony, and you brought up one article that is really about Andre 3000. My mom has been getting Ebony in the mail for years, so I know what's in it. I'm pretty sure Jimi Hendrix is brought up more in Rolling Stone or Guitar Magazine than Ebony or Jet and also by more rock acts than R&B acts. You said why are white acts mostly on rock lists and I said why. Then I said why do blacks consider rock "white" and you haven't answered it. R&B and rap is considered "black music" by black people, why not rock. From my experience, black people in general (I don't mean all) listen to R&B, gospel, and rap. They don't listen to rock. Tina Turner was said to have sold out because she was doing more rock based music when she made her comeback than what she was doing with Ike. Run DMC & Beastie Boys got a more white audience than the average rap act of the mid 1980s because they had rock guitar in their songs.

i'm from the northwest (eastern washington) and remember growing up listening to radio stations that played 90% rock and roll music on the radio.

so i have an appreciation of rock music and my roots music.

as a small child my older sister listened to motown and many of her friends brought their (white) music over and so i learned to appreciate both all types of music from early on.

as far as jimi hendrix, my sister was very good friends with bob and diane hendrix who were jimi hendrix' cousins.

so anyway, i've always been open to all types of music. (my sister played classical violin)

as far as jimi hendrix goes:

: http://www.rollingstone.c...x-20120705

100 Greatest Guitarists 2014

1. Jimi Hendix

according to rolling stone magazine.

note: there are a few other black guitarist on this list.

santana does a great guitar job on his version of 'while my guitar gently weeps.'

MickyDolenz said:

Yes, anybody who says otherwise clearly has no idea how far these guys went...

They impacted the music as an art and as a form of entertainement.

Helter Skelter was probably the first "heavy metal" song even if it wasn't labeled as such at the time it was released.

Revolver, Sgt Pepper, Rubber Soul were albums that defined a whole era of music, let alone the fact that those albums saw The Beatles explore new heights musically, lyrically and sonically. (Even if The Beach Boys' Pet Sounds was essential in establishing that sound that was a hybrid of baroque music, psychedelic rock, chamber pop...etc, yet, The Beatles done it best)

Basically, when you talk about the 60's and the counterculture of the 60's, you had to talk about black people's rights movements, JFK's assassination, Cuban war, Moon landing AND The Beatles' arrival in America.

free2bfreeda said:

• To ensure the highest level of fact checking and editorial control, this list sources sales figures to news organizations and highly regarded music industry related organizations such as MTV, VH1, Billboard and Rolling Stone.
• The figures of total certified units within the table below are based on certified units of albums, singles (including digital downloads) and videos.
• Markets' order within the table is based on Retail Value: each market generates respectively, the largest market at the top and smallest at the bottom.^[3][4]

Artist	Country of origin	Period active	Release-year of first charted record	Genre	Total certified units (from available markets)[Notes]	Claimed sales
The Beatles	United Kingdom	1960–1970[5]	1962[5]	Rock / Pop[5]	Total available certified units: 269.4 million [show]	600 million[30][31]
Elvis Presley	United States	1954–1977[32]	1954[32]	Rock and roll / Pop / Country[32]	Total available certified units: 210.2 million [show]	600 million[39][40] 500 million[41]
Michael Jackson	United States	1964–2009[42]	1971[42]	Pop / Rock / Dance / Soul /R&B[42]	Total available certified units: 179.6 million [show]	400 million[55][56] 350 million[57] 300 million[58][59]

: https://en.wikipedia.org/...ic_artists

$$$$$ - seems money talks when it comes to points of noteriety.

however, michael jackson was a one of a kind entertainer who imo will not ever be matched as far as being an all around vocalist and performer.

OP is talking about influence and impact, not sales. That is a totally different conversation.

Aretha Franklin will not be on top of any highest selling all time list but her influence and impact is greater than any other.

Aretha and Stevie have the biggest influence on singers today. perhaps if not directly they are still influenced by artists who were directly influenced by Aretha and Stevie.

Luther Vandross may be the greatest of all.

.

[Edited 2/20/16 5:28am]

SeventeenDayze said:

Okay, so the British Invasion was DECADES before my time but I have often wondered if the Beatles were a product of media hype/PR machine or did they have a bonafide impact on music. I'm not talking about whether or not they had scores of screaming, fainting fans (they did obviously) but did they have an impact on music? I see an artist like David Bowie who obviously had a huge impact on the direction of music in the 70s but I don't know if I'm convinced the Beatles had that much of an impact. I welcome the comments from those old enough to remember that era and/or music historians (Yes, that means YOU MickeyDolenz)

I'm curious as to what makes you think this question about whether the Beatles "really" impacted
music is worthy of discussion? as their impact on music is unquestionable. What is questionable,
however, is whether or not you like them. In other words, don't confuse the question of whether or
not you like the Beatles with whether or not the Beatles "really" impacted music when history has
already said "yes."

Finally, think about the context of where this question resides: in a forum dominated by kiddies
who are Prince fans, which means: 1) kids (teens to mid 20s) are so far removed from Beatle-
mania, that they don't understand why/how the Beatles were/are so dominant in their affect
and 2) the music discussed in this forum tends to lean heavily on R&B/funk/soul and not straight
pop music that didn't likewise lean heavily on R&B/funk/soul. I used to post at the Weezer mes-
sage boards back in the day and the Beatles were gods. But the opera forum I post at, the
Beatles are "okay." So, the question of whether or not they truly had an impact on our culture
and music has already been answered, and I'll give you an example: when people approach a
recording artist's album expecting to hear one grand and cohesive artistic statement as opposed
to just a collection of singles, this is due to the Beatles and their approach to recording an album
and using it as a veritable medium for {recording} art.

This is a rather tiresome argument, but to weigh in briefly I have George Clinton's autobiography right here in front of me, and on several occasions he notes them as a huge influence on him and speaks of trying to emulate what they did in the studio. Thus I'm somewhat sceptical when people here try to claim that the Beatles were not influential on subsequent generations of black American musicians, considering that one of the greatest and most influential of these musicians openly admits to having been heavily inspired by the Beatles.

RaspBerryGirlFriend said:

This is a rather tiresome argument, but to weigh in briefly I have George Clinton's autobiography right here in front of me, and on several occasions he notes them as a huge influence on him and speaks of trying to emulate what they did in the studio. Thus I'm somewhat sceptical when people here try to claim that the Beatles were not influential on subsequent generations of black American musicians, considering that one of the greatest and most influential of these musicians openly admits to having been heavily inspired by the Beatles.

Any one and everyone who followed the Beatles after seeing the success that they had put some time into understanding what and how they went about their business. That is just common sense, but the level of influence is minimum in my opinion. The Beatles made simple music for the masses. It's just simple for me. This topic is tiresome at this point.

If you believe the Beatles influenced folks making Blues, Funk, R&B, Soul, House, Trance, etc........that is on you. My EARS and knowledge of music suggest otherwise. That is not meant as disrespect to you, that is simply my opinion.

RaspBerryGirlFriend said:

This is a rather tiresome argument, but to weigh in briefly I have George Clinton's autobiography right here in front of me, and on several occasions he notes them as a huge influence on him and speaks of trying to emulate what they did in the studio. Thus I'm somewhat sceptical when people here try to claim that the Beatles were not influential on subsequent generations of black American musicians, considering that one of the greatest and most influential of these musicians openly admits to having been heavily inspired by the Beatles.

here's a bit of under exposed triva about the beatles first records pressed in the u s

Vee-Jay Records

: http://www.history-of-roc...veejay.htm

Vee-Jay and it's subsidiaries were owned by Vivian Carter Bracken, James Bracken, her husband, and Calvin Carter. Vee-Jay was the first large independent record company to be owned by blacks and was the most successful black owned record company before Motown. Vee Jay contributed a tremendous legacy of blues, rhythm and blues, doowop, jazz, soul, pop and rock n' roll

Vee Jay was the first to introduce the Beatles to the US.

Introducing... The Beatles
Studio album by The Beatles
Released	10 January 1964
Recorded	11 September and 26 November 1962, 11 and 20 February 1963
Studio	EMI Studios, London
Genre	Rock and roll
Length	27:39
Label	Vee-Jay <-------
Producer	George Martin

ALSO "Please Please Me"
"Please Please Me" 45 (1963 UK issue)
Single by The Beatles
from the album Please Please Me
B-side	"Ask Me Why" (first release) "From Me to You" (US, reissue)
Released	11 January 1963 (UK) 25 February 1963 (US)
Format	7"
Recorded	26 November 1962 EMI Studios, London
Genre	Merseybeat[1] rock and roll[2]
Length	2:00
Label	Parlophone (UK) Vee-Jay 498 (US, first release) Vee-Jay 581 (US, reissue)
Writer(s)	Lennon–McCartney
Producer(s)	George Martin
The Beatles singles chronology
"Love Me Do" (1962) "Please Please Me" (1963) "From Me to You"

>

>

Vee-Jay had significant success with pop/rock and roll acts, notably the Four Seasons (their first non-black act) and the Beatles. Vee-Jay acquired the rights to some of the early Beatles recordings in a licensing deal with EMI, in which the main attraction at the time was another EMI performer

Vee-Jay's biggest successes occurred from 1962 to 1964

the distribution of early Beatles material ("From Me to You" b/w "Thank You Girl," "Please Please Me" b/w "From Me to You," and "Do You Want to Know a Secret" b/w "Thank You Girl" via Vee-Jay^[1] and "Love Me Do" b/w "P.S. I Love You" and "Twist and Shout" b/w "There's a Place" via its subsidiary Tollie Records), because EMI's autonomous United States company Capitol initially refused to release Beatles records. Vee-Jay's releases were at first unsuccessful, but quickly became huge hits once the British Invasion took off in early 1964, selling 2.6 million Beatles singles in a single month.

see more vee jay beatles' vinyl pressing images : https://images.search.yah...tion=click

>

also:

Songs, Pictures And Stories of The Fabulous
Beatles
Records On Vee-Jay

http://www.rarebeatles.com/vjbook/vjbook.htm

>

>

>

and:

The Vee-Jay Story <------------worth a read

: http://www.bsnpubs.com/ve...tory1.html

by Mike Callahan
Last update: December 19, 2006

Vee Jay records were the spring board to a group that impacted music for the many and the few.

(like i mentioned earlier, "this is a very good thread." thx to the op.)

[Edited 2/20/16 8:56am]

JKOOLMUSIC said:

I can cosign for Bob Marley equaling or surpassing The Beatles in the worldwide popular artist argument. His trajectory in terms of content, message, and presentation throughout his career also sort of mirrors The Beatles starting in consumer pop, then reinvention, and controversy. All the while each hit remains popular to this day. Bob did some really pop stuff before Exodus and all the social justice messages became prevalent in his albums. Michael Jackson's career was similar except he came from the band with his brothers and the dancing was a part of their act. IF MJ hadn't become "king of pop" and the J5 had the same path as say, The Jets (Google em), MJ would be remembered for all those amazing, classic J5 tunes as that adorable boy singing on TV. . Bob Marley didn't have backup dancers, he had a band who felt what he was doing and the tighest backup singers ever probably, both the I Threes (wife) and Tosh and Bunny (co-legend), a male and female take on that role. The Beatles and Bob Marley, if you really dig into their catalogs, there is just days and days of music that your imagination could ride with and you could close your eyes and fly away. They were jammin. Lengthy solos, some even instrumental songs. Dance routines and whatnot for pop acts were more of a Hollywood or Broadway thing before MTV...? This feeling of music combined with imagination, historically, likely traces back to radio in the communication stone age when people would sit around en masse, literally as we do to Nintendo and Netflix now, and they would sit there in a row listening to a box. A box. (Cue 2001:SpaceOdyssey) before the communications dark ages of pre-cable television and picture shows. . Maybe this is why Dayze is more into the psychadelic Beatles, the aural imagery versus actual imagery is much more profound in those albums. Sgt. Pepper's had that crazy historical class photo with the crazy rumors what the cover meant (visual mystery to stare at while listening). Mystery Tour had that weird costumed thing going. . I had to bow out cuz I was at work and they can tell when I get heated over online nonsense. My alltime favorite Beatles cover is Stevie Wonder's We Can Work It Out, second is Elvis Costello's cover of You've Got To Hide Your Love Away. I thiught it was so cool when En Vogue did Yesterday. Lauryn Hill slayed Something on Letterman a few years ago, even Dave was choked up.

Billboard magazine once pointed out that the biggest covers of Beatles songs were by Black artists, citing Wonder and Earth Wind and Fire. Almost all Motown acts covered Beatles songs, along with Aretha, James Brown, Wilson Pickett, Nina Simone, Ella Fitzgerald...the list is endless