mjscarousal said:

Race is most definitly a factor in these nominations and inductions. For crying out loud only ONE black act got inducted this year. I am sorry but that is ridiculous Some of ya'll really think race is no factor in these inductions? I think its pretty safe to say the RHOF is racist and political. Chic got snubbed TEN TIMES. What white band you know (regardless of genre) got snubbed 10 times?

116 of the 317 groups/solo artists inducted into the RHOF are African American - that's 37%

African Americans have comprised between 10%-13% of the US population since 1900.

http://library.rockhall.com/black_history_month/BHM/inductees

https://rockhall.com/inductees/

Both Steve Miller and Deep Purple have been snubbed 22 times, and Chicago 21 times.

But yeah, keep on keepin' on ...

just give her Hall Of Fame trophy to Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis... They are the rightful owners of any accolades Janet Jackson may receive for her great music

mjscarousal said:

lezama said:

NWA received induction before her? There's something wrong about that. I can understand Steve Miller, Chicago and Deep Purple.. Cheap Trick not really. Chic was rejected for the 10th time which is incredible.

Not to be a double downer or anything but IMO I think NWA has had the same amount of influence as Janet. Just because their a hip hop band doesn't mean there contributions should be minimized either. Both NWA and Janet came out around the same time (1986/late 1980's). Although Janet released two previous efforts before Control, the Control album is what made her a "super star." I understand the Janet fans frustrations (because Janet is underrated) but I personally think Chaka and Chic were more deserving for induction and yet again they were snubbed.

Well, I at least agree with your last sentence. I could be biased against NWA because I listened to their first and second tapes when they came out in the 80's but I don't really listen to rap/hip-hop hardly at all anymore so I don't really feel their influence on contemporary music as I do Janet's.

mjscarousal said:

I actually think Madonna deserves to be in RHOF.

Pokeno4Money said:

mjscarousal said:

Race is most definitly a factor in these nominations and inductions. For crying out loud only ONE black act got inducted this year. I am sorry but that is ridiculous Some of ya'll really think race is no factor in these inductions? I think its pretty safe to say the RHOF is racist and political. Chic got snubbed TEN TIMES. What white band you know (regardless of genre) got snubbed 10 times?

116 of the 317 groups/solo artists inducted into the RHOF are African American - that's 37%

African Americans have comprised between 10%-13% of the US population since 1900.

http://library.rockhall.com/black_history_month/BHM/inductees

https://rockhall.com/inductees/

Both Steve Miller and Deep Purple have been snubbed 22 times, and Chicago 21 times.

But yeah, keep on keepin' on ...

White people make up 77% of the U.S. population

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

Why did you post the U.S. population of African Americans when 17.4 % of the US population consist of Hispanics. Hispanics are the second biggest demographic in the country behind white people. So I am confused with why you brought up the stats of African Americans?

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

Here is a lil snap shot of the black acts that have been snubbed.

The Spinners-28 years
Marvelletes- 28 years

Mary Wells- 28 years

Delfonics- 22 years

WAR-18 years

The Stylistics- 19 years

Barry White-16

Chic-11 years

Whitney-5 years

Janet Jackson- 7 years

LL Cool J- 5 years

Afrika Bambaataa-9

Eric B&Rakim- 3 years

there are countless others black acts too. They ALL deserve to be in it.

http://www.futurerocklegends.com/The_Snub_List.php?sortby=years_snubbed

Cinny said:

mjscarousal said:

But none of those acts have done anything as groundbreaking as Rhythm Nation or has made an album as influential as Control. Janet is more than worthy to be inducted. Same with Whitney. Its pretty ridiculous Whitney has not been in either. If Madonna can be inducted don't see why Janet or Whitney can't be.

They absolutely have not eclipsed her (never will), but just trying to figure out why they snub her. They might already be regretting Madonna's induction.

"They" should... her selection into "The Hall" was and is a fucking joke. That's my opinion... Yet, many folks think the world of those two women and their contribution to music. That's the beauty of music... what make your ears, your person admire or fall in love with the music of band or singer? I don't think it can always be defined or explained... it's a bit elusive.

As I mentioned The Hall, isn't nor it should be a stamp of creditability for any artist work. i know mjscarousal is a BIG fan of Janet Jackson's music. If Ms. Jackson is never elected would it changer her mind of Ms. Jackson's contribution to music? No. If the Hall R&R the author's of rebellion and anti-establishment is holding that bullshit that happened at the Super Bowel overs Janet's head... fuckum'.

TD3 said:

If the Hall R&R the author's of rebellion and anti-establishment is holding that bullshit that happened at the Super Bowel overs Janet's head... fuckum'.

If anything, they should love that stunt.

Cinny said:

TD3 said:

If the Hall R&R the author's of rebellion and anti-establishment is holding that bullshit that happened at the Super Bowel overs Janet's head... fuckum'.

If anything, they should love that stunt.

Thank you!

What about Mariah and Whitney? Who thinks that they should be inducted someday?

PurpleMedley122 said:

Why?

Believe it or not, this is still having a significant effect on her career:

A little food for thought: maybe they (the Rock and Roll hall of Fame committee) think of Janet as "Michael's little sister" and don't really take her seriously as a credible artist in her own right (despite her accomplishments).

mjscarousal said:

Pokeno4Money said:

116 of the 317 groups/solo artists inducted into the RHOF are African American - that's 37%

African Americans have comprised between 10%-13% of the US population since 1900.

http://library.rockhall.com/black_history_month/BHM/inductees

https://rockhall.com/inductees/

Both Steve Miller and Deep Purple have been snubbed 22 times, and Chicago 21 times.

But yeah, keep on keepin' on ...

White people make up 77% of the U.S. population

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

Why did you post the U.S. population of African Americans when 17.4 % of the US population consist of Hispanics. Hispanics are the second biggest demographic in the country behind white people. So I am confused with why you brought up the stats of African Americans?

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

Here is a lil snap shot of the black acts that have been snubbed.

The Spinners-28 years
Marvelletes- 28 years

Mary Wells- 28 years

Delfonics- 22 years

WAR-18 years

The Stylistics- 19 years

Barry White-16

Chic-11 years

Whitney-5 years

Janet Jackson- 7 years

LL Cool J- 5 years

Afrika Bambaataa-9

Eric B&Rakim- 3 years

there are countless others black acts too. They ALL deserve to be in it.

http://www.futurerocklegends.com/The_Snub_List.php?sortby=years_snubbed

Hispanic is not considered a race by many sources, including the one you used. So when the term "racist" is used, Hispanic has nothing to do with it. The 77% of "white people" you referenced INCLUDES Hispanics.

Seems like you're trying to say there should be more Hispanic inductees too. Well in the 1940's and 1950's only 2% of the US population was Hispanic, and by 1990 it was only 9%. Why on Earth would you expect there to be a lot more Hispanic inductees? There's a Latin Music Hall of Fame you know, and also a Country Music Hall of Fame. And a Classical Music Hall of Fame. The Rock Hall includes many, but not all genres.

How many Latin artists dominated the charts prior to 1990? Off the top of my head I can think of Santana and Valens ... and Carlos Santana has stated he doesn't do Latin music, he says "What it is, is African music... All the music that I love comes from Africa."


If you can find a breakdown of RHOF Inductees that counts only Hispanics, feel free to post the link here.

Do you realize musicians have to wait 25 years from the release of their first album before they become eligible for induction? Therefore if you are going to look at demographics, you need to look pre-1990.

Plenty of acts, both white and black, have long been deserving. When only 5 or so can be inducted each year, and there's a backlog going all the way back to at least the 1940's, sure there's going to be plenty who are snubbed. But when you look at the percentage of inductees who are African American, it's silly to accuse the RHOF of racism. Fortunately as the US continues to produce more multi-racial artists and bands, the subject of race will become even more of a non-issue than it already is.

I agree that the RRHOF is a bunch of crap but it's the gesture. I do think Janet deserves to be in there. As far as her Super Bowl stunt goes, I don't think that has any bearing. People have done actual bad things and still been inducted. But I also think the list of folks who need to be in there before Janet is substantial.

Pokeno4Money said:

mjscarousal said:

White people make up 77% of the U.S. population

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

Why did you post the U.S. population of African Americans when 17.4 % of the US population consist of Hispanics. Hispanics are the second biggest demographic in the country behind white people. So I am confused with why you brought up the stats of African Americans?

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

Here is a lil snap shot of the black acts that have been snubbed.

The Spinners-28 years
Marvelletes- 28 years

Mary Wells- 28 years

Delfonics- 22 years

WAR-18 years

The Stylistics- 19 years

Barry White-16

Chic-11 years

Whitney-5 years

Janet Jackson- 7 years

LL Cool J- 5 years

Afrika Bambaataa-9

Eric B&Rakim- 3 years

there are countless others black acts too. They ALL deserve to be in it.

http://www.futurerocklegends.com/The_Snub_List.php?sortby=years_snubbed

Hispanic is not considered a race by many sources, including the one you used. So when the term "racist" is used, Hispanic has nothing to do with it. The 77% of "white people" you referenced INCLUDES Hispanics.

Seems like you're trying to say there should be more Hispanic inductees too. Well in the 1940's and 1950's only 2% of the US population was Hispanic, and by 1990 it was only 9%. Why on Earth would you expect there to be a lot more Hispanic inductees? There's a Latin Music Hall of Fame you know, and also a Country Music Hall of Fame. And a Classical Music Hall of Fame. The Rock Hall includes many, but not all genres.

How many Latin artists dominated the charts prior to 1990? Off the top of my head I can think of Santana and Valens ... and Carlos Santana has stated he doesn't do Latin music, he says "What it is, is African music... All the music that I love comes from Africa."


If you can find a breakdown of RHOF Inductees that counts only Hispanics, feel free to post the link here.

Do you realize musicians have to wait 25 years from the release of their first album before they become eligible for induction? Therefore if you are going to look at demographics, you need to look pre-1990.

Plenty of acts, both white and black, have long been deserving. When only 5 or so can be inducted each year, and there's a backlog going all the way back to at least the 1940's, sure there's going to be plenty who are snubbed. But when you look at the percentage of inductees who are African American, it's silly to accuse the RHOF of racism. Fortunately as the US continues to produce more multi-racial artists and bands, the subject of race will become even more of a non-issue than it already is.

I am confused with why you even posted the African American stats when there are less African Americans in this country compared to Whites. What were you trying to prove with the stat? What does that even have to do with this discussion? NOTHING. Nothing in this post debunks the point I made. I presented you with a few African Americans acts that have been overlooked for decades more than the two white rock bands you presented. To say that race is not an issue in how acts get inducted over others in RHOF is ridiculous. There was only one black act that was inducted this year. There are tons of black acts that get snubbed for decades over white rock bands. That is my opinion and it is not changing. You do not have to agree with it.

Latino/Latina and Hispanic are not races. A Latino can be Rita Hayworth, Celia Cruz, Desi Arnaz, Sofia Vergara, Jose Feliciano, Lisa Lisa, or Amara La Negra. If you look at an average application in the US, it'll have something like "white/black not of Hispanic origin" on it.

mjscarousal said:

Pokeno4Money said:

Hispanic is not considered a race by many sources, including the one you used. So when the term "racist" is used, Hispanic has nothing to do with it. The 77% of "white people" you referenced INCLUDES Hispanics.

Seems like you're trying to say there should be more Hispanic inductees too. Well in the 1940's and 1950's only 2% of the US population was Hispanic, and by 1990 it was only 9%. Why on Earth would you expect there to be a lot more Hispanic inductees? There's a Latin Music Hall of Fame you know, and also a Country Music Hall of Fame. And a Classical Music Hall of Fame. The Rock Hall includes many, but not all genres.

How many Latin artists dominated the charts prior to 1990? Off the top of my head I can think of Santana and Valens ... and Carlos Santana has stated he doesn't do Latin music, he says "What it is, is African music... All the music that I love comes from Africa."


If you can find a breakdown of RHOF Inductees that counts only Hispanics, feel free to post the link here.

Do you realize musicians have to wait 25 years from the release of their first album before they become eligible for induction? Therefore if you are going to look at demographics, you need to look pre-1990.

Plenty of acts, both white and black, have long been deserving. When only 5 or so can be inducted each year, and there's a backlog going all the way back to at least the 1940's, sure there's going to be plenty who are snubbed. But when you look at the percentage of inductees who are African American, it's silly to accuse the RHOF of racism. Fortunately as the US continues to produce more multi-racial artists and bands, the subject of race will become even more of a non-issue than it already is.

I am confused with why you even posted the African American stats when there are less African Americans in this country compared to Whites. What were you trying to prove with the stat? What does that even have to do with this discussion? NOTHING. Nothing in this post debunks the point I made. I presented you with a few African Americans acts that have been overlooked for decades more than the two white rock bands you presented. To say that race is not an issue in how acts get inducted over others in RHOF is ridiculous. There was only one black act that was inducted this year. There are tons of black acts that get snubbed for decades over white rock bands. That is my opinion and it is not changing. You do not have to agree with it.

You stated the RHOF is racist simply because only one "black" act was inducted this week.

I pointed out 37% of all inductees are African American, approximately three times more than the percentage of African American US citizens.

Therefore, your claim of racism is proven false.

I'm certainly not trying to change your opinion, just pointing out the facts to others who like to know the truth. There's enough hatred in this world without more being created by false accusations of racism.

Peopl really need to just get real with this already. That letter written looks exactly like the one that was written for KISS when fans were dieing for decades trying to get that band in. Janet will get in at some point, is it overdue, maybe a little, influence OK its there but just because superstars like Beyonce grew up on you, doesnt mean you get in. Tons of rock stars that were in the hall of fame cited fucking KISS as favorite band and that wasnt enough to get them in, though honestly i still feel they shouldnt be in.

The letter stating she is overdue, well talk to CHICAGO who just got in 52 years after the band started and about 21 after first being eligible. Talk to HALL AND OATES who got in last year but really didnt give a shit at that point because they knew the politics to keep them out, which was they were hit makers in a decade that still gets NO RESPECT. And they were about 17 years overdue after being eligible. So Janet fans start looking at those things, you are going to have to wait.

And also having a hit album currently or being on a comeback or a tour or being in the news or having a member in your group or the person just dieing SHOULD NOT be the ticket in. One article i saw was that people thought YES should go in because a member died that is total BS, but its not unlike awards shows like this to do that, the RRHOF has already done that with Donna SUmmer, the Emmys did it with Jackie GLeason, John Ritter and Robin Williams. And the grammys well they do it whenever someone dies, im sure we will get a Scott Wieland talk this year.

We can argue UP AND DOWN about criteria, who votes, hits, this and that but the list is long of who will not be getting in. Janet has had tons of hits and tours and this and that but it's not going to get her in. BOn Jovi has hits up the ass, the biggest tours of any bands in history, shit JON is friends with Bruce who is the poster boy for the hall of fame, JON has been on the show, but they most likely will not get in, already missing on votes 4 times and now not even on the ballot.

So save the letters Janet fans or wait another year or two and then write one for Mariah who is eligible and wont get in either, and you cant say she hasnt influenced more than janet because as nuts and awful as she is now, every female singer cites carey as the go to singer for them.

mjscarousal said:

I presented you with a few African Americans acts that have been overlooked for decades more than the two white rock bands you presented.

How many of the black performers inducted actually make rock n roll (or rock) vs the white performers inducted? I think a higher percentage of the white acts are some form of rock than the black ones. Rock is considered "white music" by the general public, even by many blacks. To the point that a black act doing it is labeled "black rock" or "afropunk", when rock n roll originated from black people. Eminem isn't called "white hip hop". Even "hick hop" is not really referring to a race, although most of it is white people, but to it being rural. How much airplay did Jimi Hendrix get on R&B stations? So of course there's going to be more whites inducted. Whites resurrected the old blues performers like BB King & Muddy Waters that had been abandoned on black radio. Without the Eric Claptons & Rolling Stones shouting them out, playing on their records, or giving them opening slots on their tours, most of them would be forgotten today. It was whites who made a movie called The Blues Brothers and put some blues and soul singers in it.

MickyDolenz said:

How many of the black performers inducted actually make rock n roll (or rock) vs the white performers inducted? I think a higher percentage of the white acts are some form of rock than the black ones. Rock is considered "white music" by the general public, even by many blacks. To the point that a black act doing it is labeled "black rock" or "afropunk", when rock n roll originated from black people. Eminem isn't called "white hip hop". Even "hick hop" is not really referring to a race, although most of it is white people, but to it being rural. How much airplay did Jimi Hendrix get on R&B stations? So of course there's going to be more whites inducted. Whites resurrected the old blues performers like BB King & Muddy Waters that had been abandoned on black radio. Without the Eric Claptons & Rolling Stones shouting them out, playing on their records, or giving them opening slots on their tours, most of them would be forgotten today. It was whites who made a movie called The Blues Brothers and put some blues and soul singers in it.

Always enjoy your posts on music, Happy Holidays to you.

if I was Janet, I wouldn't even worry about it,

which the type of control she has now owning her masters and the like

she can create her own hall of fame

Pokeno4Money said:

mjscarousal said:

I am confused with why you even posted the African American stats when there are less African Americans in this country compared to Whites. What were you trying to prove with the stat? What does that even have to do with this discussion? NOTHING. Nothing in this post debunks the point I made. I presented you with a few African Americans acts that have been overlooked for decades more than the two white rock bands you presented. To say that race is not an issue in how acts get inducted over others in RHOF is ridiculous. There was only one black act that was inducted this year. There are tons of black acts that get snubbed for decades over white rock bands. That is my opinion and it is not changing. You do not have to agree with it.

You stated the RHOF is racist simply because only one "black" act was inducted this week.

I pointed out 37% of all inductees are African American, approximately three times more than the percentage of African American US citizens.

Therefore, your claim of racism is proven false.

I'm certainly not trying to change your opinion, just pointing out the facts to others who like to know the truth. There's enough hatred in this world without more being created by false accusations of racism.

You obviously did not read my post because I never said that at all. My opinion is not based on the decision that was made "this week". There is a clear pattern when it comes to blacks acts and the RHOF. They typically will induct only one or two at a time. Im not making this up.

2016: NWA ( 1 out of 5 inductees)

2015: Bill Withers, The Royales (2 out of 9 inductees)

2014: No black act was inducted (9 were inducted but all white)

2013: Public Enemy, Donna Summer (FINALLY after decades of being snubbed) (2 out of 6 inductees)

2012: The Miracles, Freddie King, Famous Flames (3 out of 17 inductees)

2011: Darlene Love (1 out of 8 inductees)

2010: Jimmy Cliff and Otis Blackwell (2 out of 11 inductees)

2009: Run DMC, Bobby Womak (2 out of 9)

2008: No black acts were inducted (7 were inducted all white)

2007: Grand Master Flash (1 out of 5)

2006: Miles Davis (1 out of 6)

https://rockhall.com/inductees/byyear/2016/

This is 10 years worth and I would go back further but the site is right there for you to read for yourself. So I am not making this up.

Just because 37% of inductees are African American does not invalidate the fact that they snub black acts over white rock bands especially if the hall consists of 63% white acts AND especially if they are only inducting 1 or 2 black acts each year.

Also.... I did provided you with some pre 1990 black acts that are eligible to be inducted but have been snubbed and some have been snubbed for multiple decades. I find it strange that you don't think the fact that only 1 or 2 black acts get inducted each year has nothing to do with race. Mind you, I never insisted that was the only thing they use to base nominations or inductions by but it certainly is a factor. These numbers reflect that. In other words......its not a coincidence that only 1 or 2 black acts get inducted each year. RHOF is sexist, political and prejudice with their selections.

mjscarousal said:

Pokeno4Money said:

You stated the RHOF is racist simply because only one "black" act was inducted this week.

I pointed out 37% of all inductees are African American, approximately three times more than the percentage of African American US citizens.

Therefore, your claim of racism is proven false.

I'm certainly not trying to change your opinion, just pointing out the facts to others who like to know the truth. There's enough hatred in this world without more being created by false accusations of racism.

You obviously did not read my post because I never said that at all. My opinion is not based on the decision that was made "this week". There is a clear pattern when it comes to blacks acts and the RHOF. They typically will induct only one or two at a time. Im not making this up.

2016: NWA ( 1 out of 5 inductees)

2015: Bill Withers, The Royales (2 out of 9 inductees)

2014: No black act was inducted (9 were inducted but all white)

2013: Public Enemy, Donna Summer (FINALLY after decades of being snubbed) (2 out of 6 inductees)

2012: The Miracles, Freddie King, Famous Flames (3 out of 17 inductees)

2011: Darlene Love (1 out of 8 inductees)

2010: Jimmy Cliff and Otis Blackwell (2 out of 11 inductees)

2009: Run DMC, Bobby Womak (2 out of 9)

2008: No black acts were inducted (7 were inducted all white)

2007: Grand Master Flash (1 out of 5)

2006: Miles Davis (1 out of 6)

https://rockhall.com/inductees/byyear/2016/

This is 10 years worth and I would go back further but the site is right there for you to read for yourself. So I am not making this up.

Just because 37% of inductees are African American does not invalidate the fact that they snub black acts over white rock bands especially if the hall consists of 63% white acts AND especially if they are only inducting 1 or 2 black acts each year.

Also.... I did provided you with some pre 1990 black acts that are eligible to be inducted but have been snubbed and some have been snubbed for multiple decades. I find it strange that you don't think the fact that only 1 or 2 black acts get inducted each year has nothing to do with race. Mind you, I never insisted that was the only thing they use to base nominations or inductions by but it certainly is a factor. These numbers reflect that. In other words......its not a coincidence that only 1 or 2 black acts get inducted each year. RHOF is sexist, political and prejudice with their selections.

So just because only one black group got in, you think only black acts were snubbed? There's FAR more white acts that are snubbed year after year, because rock music has always been FAR more popular with white people than with African Americans. Is that something that really needs to be explained? Do I really need to provide link after link that shows the rock charts were dominated by white acts pre-1990, as they still are today? Read Micky's posts, he has already explained the reasons why. Facts are facts, 37% is extremely impressive when you consider the rock genre was largely abandoned by the black community many decades ago in favor of rap/R&B/Hip Hop.

This isn't the Rap/R&B/Hip Hop Hall of Fame we are talking about here. If it was, and if all the executives running it were African American, would you accuse THEM of being racist when a very tiny percentage of white acts would inevitably be inducted? Rap has always been a black-dominated genre, would you not agree? So you wouldn't expect very many white acts to be inducted into the rap hall of fame, would you?

And again, look at the many many white acts that have been snubbed by the Rock Hall for decades. I already pointed out Chicago, Deep Purple and Steve Miller. And you know what? If the Rock Hall HADN'T expanded the eligible genres to include rappers and hip hop artists and R&B singers then there wouldn't be so many true rock musicians (ie: those who played primarily rock music) snubbed year after year. Has ANYONE ever referred to Michael Jackson as a rock musician? Has ANYONE ever referred to the Jackson Five as a rock group? Who has EVER called Donna Summer a rock singer? Come on now ...

Fact is, the Rock Hall began inducting non-rock artists for one reason and one reason only - MONEY.

mjscarousal said:

Just because 37% of inductees are African American does not invalidate the fact that they snub black acts over white rock bands especially if the hall consists of 63% white acts AND especially if they are only inducting 1 or 2 black acts each year.

It's called "Rock N Roll Hall Of Fame" and was started by the founders of Rolling Stone a rock magazine. They're going to induct white rock bands before others because it is a rock hall and there's more white rock bands who are well known than black rock bands. Reggae, disco, rap, jazz, and soul aren't rock, which is what most of those acts you listed are. Steve Miller Band is a rock band, Chic is not. There used to be a radio format called Album Oriented Rock (AOR) and the majority of the acts played were white male rock bands, not blacks, Puerto Ricans, or women. Jimi Hendrix was probably the only black performer who recieved any regular play and his stuff was oldies already. Maybe they played a little Living Colour. Since it is a "rock hall", Fishbone, Mothers Finest, Death, Jon Butcher Axis, King's X, or The Bus Boys are black/mixed groups who fit that term more than Chaka Khan, Chic, & Janet Jackson. What don't you understand about that? It's like expecting a lot of blacks to be in the Country Music Hall Of Fame and Grand Ole Opry or many whites in a Tejano museum, when few have made any inpact there. Wham!, Kraftwerk, Duran Duran, Depeche Mode, The Cure, and many others are white and they are not inducted. Many rock fans are upset because Madonna, Hall & Oates, & rap groups are inducted instead of Iron Maiden or Yes. They don't have to induct somebody because they are black or any other race if they don't want to. It's a club and they can induct whoever they want. There is no quota or criteria that has to be filled.

Colin Powell? Seriously?

The letter writer's sense of proportion is waaaay off. This is hardly a life or death matter.

Pokeno4Money said:

mjscarousal said:

You obviously did not read my post because I never said that at all. My opinion is not based on the decision that was made "this week". There is a clear pattern when it comes to blacks acts and the RHOF. They typically will induct only one or two at a time. Im not making this up.

2016: NWA ( 1 out of 5 inductees)

2015: Bill Withers, The Royales (2 out of 9 inductees)

2014: No black act was inducted (9 were inducted but all white)

2013: Public Enemy, Donna Summer (FINALLY after decades of being snubbed) (2 out of 6 inductees)

2012: The Miracles, Freddie King, Famous Flames (3 out of 17 inductees)

2011: Darlene Love (1 out of 8 inductees)

2010: Jimmy Cliff and Otis Blackwell (2 out of 11 inductees)

2009: Run DMC, Bobby Womak (2 out of 9)

2008: No black acts were inducted (7 were inducted all white)

2007: Grand Master Flash (1 out of 5)

2006: Miles Davis (1 out of 6)

https://rockhall.com/inductees/byyear/2016/

This is 10 years worth and I would go back further but the site is right there for you to read for yourself. So I am not making this up.

Just because 37% of inductees are African American does not invalidate the fact that they snub black acts over white rock bands especially if the hall consists of 63% white acts AND especially if they are only inducting 1 or 2 black acts each year.

Also.... I did provided you with some pre 1990 black acts that are eligible to be inducted but have been snubbed and some have been snubbed for multiple decades. I find it strange that you don't think the fact that only 1 or 2 black acts get inducted each year has nothing to do with race. Mind you, I never insisted that was the only thing they use to base nominations or inductions by but it certainly is a factor. These numbers reflect that. In other words......its not a coincidence that only 1 or 2 black acts get inducted each year. RHOF is sexist, political and prejudice with their selections.

So just because only one black group got in, you think only black acts were snubbed? There's FAR more white acts that are snubbed year after year, because rock music has always been FAR more popular with white people than with African Americans. Is that something that really needs to be explained? Do I really need to provide link after link that shows the rock charts were dominated by white acts pre-1990, as they still are today? Read Micky's posts, he has already explained the reasons why. Facts are facts, 37% is extremely impressive when you consider the rock genre was largely abandoned by the black community many decades ago in favor of rap/R&B/Hip Hop.

This isn't the Rap/R&B/Hip Hop Hall of Fame we are talking about here. If it was, and if all the executives running it were African American, would you accuse THEM of being racist when a very tiny percentage of white acts would inevitably be inducted? Rap has always been a black-dominated genre, would you not agree? So you wouldn't expect very many white acts to be inducted into the rap hall of fame, would you?

And again, look at the many many white acts that have been snubbed by the Rock Hall for decades. I already pointed out Chicago, Deep Purple and Steve Miller. And you know what? If the Rock Hall HADN'T expanded the eligible genres to include rappers and hip hop artists and R&B singers then there wouldn't be so many true rock musicians (ie: those who played primarily rock music) snubbed year after year. Has ANYONE ever referred to Michael Jackson as a rock musician? Has ANYONE ever referred to the Jackson Five as a rock group? Who has EVER called Donna Summer a rock singer? Come on now ...

Fact is, the Rock Hall began inducting non-rock artists for one reason and one reason only - MONEY.

I don't know why you keep saying this when I have consistently said that my opinions are not solely based off this years inductions. I gave you evidence where you can see for yourself that the one black rule really exists and even a link that shows you black acts that have been snubbed year after year. (You even said yourself that white rock bands will naturally get picked more than black acts) so I am not sure why you continue to minimize this point when I presented evidence that supports it.

If the RHOF just wanted ONLY rock bands to be in the hall, then it would be just white rock bands in the hall.....but its not. Although RHOF may have "ROCK" in its title, the Hall is not a reflection of the title and its clear the hall does not want to be...period. The RHOF acknowledges influential and culturally groundbreaking artists that aided in the progression of music in some form. This is why they have chosen non rock acts over rock bands and have chosen to incorporate other genre oriented acts besides "rock" acts. IMO, since they want to incorporate and acknowledge other acts outside the rock genre, than they need to be fair in their selections. If they don't want to add other non rock acts into the hall anymore, than they need to stop doing it OR create a different hall that specifically acknowledges other non-rock acts.

Don't nominate Chic 10 times or nominate the Marvelettes 20 times knowing that you are never going to induct them, thats disrespectful.

MickyDolenz said:

mjscarousal said:

Just because 37% of inductees are African American does not invalidate the fact that they snub black acts over white rock bands especially if the hall consists of 63% white acts AND especially if they are only inducting 1 or 2 black acts each year.

It's called "Rock N Roll Hall Of Fame" and was started by the founders of Rolling Stone a rock magazine. They're going to induct white rock bands before others because it is a rock hall and there's more white rock bands who are well known than black rock bands. Reggae, disco, rap, jazz, and soul aren't rock, which is what most of those acts you listed are. Steve Miller Band is a rock band, Chic is not. There used to be a radio format called Album Oriented Rock (AOR) and the majority of the acts played were white male rock bands, not blacks, Puerto Ricans, or women. Jimi Hendrix was probably the only black performer who recieved any regular play and his stuff was oldies already. Maybe they played a little Living Colour. Since it is a "rock hall", Fishbone, Mothers Finest, Death, Jon Butcher Axis, King's X, or The Bus Boys are black/mixed groups who fit that term more than Chaka Khan, Chic, & Janet Jackson. What don't you understand about that? It's like expecting a lot of blacks to be in the Country Music Hall Of Fame and Grand Ole Opry or many whites in a Tejano museum, when few have made any inpact there. Wham!, Kraftwerk, Duran Duran, Depeche Mode, The Cure, and many others are white and they are not inducted. Many rock fans are upset because Madonna, Hall & Oates, & rap groups are inducted instead of Iron Maiden or Yes. They don't have to induct somebody because they are black or any other race if they don't want to. It's a club and they can induct whoever they want. There is no quota or criteria that has to be filled.

It may be called the RHOF.... but their selections and nominations tell a different story. They don't want ONLY rock acts to be in the hall and since they want to incorporate other acts besides rock, they need to develop a different system. The political system" that they have right now is not fair and I know it will probably never change but that doesn't mean I can't express an opinion on it.

mjscarousal said:

Pokeno4Money said:

So just because only one black group got in, you think only black acts were snubbed? There's FAR more white acts that are snubbed year after year, because rock music has always been FAR more popular with white people than with African Americans. Is that something that really needs to be explained? Do I really need to provide link after link that shows the rock charts were dominated by white acts pre-1990, as they still are today? Read Micky's posts, he has already explained the reasons why. Facts are facts, 37% is extremely impressive when you consider the rock genre was largely abandoned by the black community many decades ago in favor of rap/R&B/Hip Hop.

This isn't the Rap/R&B/Hip Hop Hall of Fame we are talking about here. If it was, and if all the executives running it were African American, would you accuse THEM of being racist when a very tiny percentage of white acts would inevitably be inducted? Rap has always been a black-dominated genre, would you not agree? So you wouldn't expect very many white acts to be inducted into the rap hall of fame, would you?

And again, look at the many many white acts that have been snubbed by the Rock Hall for decades. I already pointed out Chicago, Deep Purple and Steve Miller. And you know what? If the Rock Hall HADN'T expanded the eligible genres to include rappers and hip hop artists and R&B singers then there wouldn't be so many true rock musicians (ie: those who played primarily rock music) snubbed year after year. Has ANYONE ever referred to Michael Jackson as a rock musician? Has ANYONE ever referred to the Jackson Five as a rock group? Who has EVER called Donna Summer a rock singer? Come on now ...

Fact is, the Rock Hall began inducting non-rock artists for one reason and one reason only - MONEY.

I don't know why you keep saying this when I have consistently said that my opinions are not solely based off this years inductions. I gave you evidence where you can see for yourself that the one black rule really exists and even a link that shows you black acts that have been snubbed year after year. (You even said yourself that white rock bands will naturally get picked more than black acts) so I am not sure why you continue to minimize this point when I presented evidence that supports it.

If the RHOF just wanted ONLY rock bands to be in the hall, then it would be just white rock bands in the hall.....but its not. Although RHOF may have "ROCK" in its title, the Hall is not a reflection of the title and its clear the hall does not want to be...period. The RHOF acknowledges influential and culturally groundbreaking artists that aided in the progression of music in some form. This is why they have chosen non rock acts over rock bands and have chosen to incorporate other genre oriented acts besides "rock" acts. IMO, since they want to incorporate and acknowledge other acts outside the rock genre, than they need to be fair in their selections. If they don't want to add other non rock acts into the hall anymore, than they need to stop doing it OR create a different hall that specifically acknowledges other non-rock acts.

Don't nominate Chic 10 times or nominate the Marvelettes 20 times knowing that you are never going to induct them, thats disrespectful.

Yes, I understand your opinions aren't solely based on this year. That's why I got the 37% for all inductees since the Hall's inception.

If they already "knew" they'd never induct those two acts, they wouldn't keep nominating them. And again, you have many many white acts who endured multiple decades of snubs ... why do you continue to ignore that fact?

And BTW in 2012 there were four African American acts, not three. You neglected to include The Midnighters. I didn't check your lists for accuracy, I just noticed 2012 because I attended that year.

Okay, you claim there's a "one black rule"? Guess who was included in the very first class of inductees:

Jimmy Yancey
Little Richard
Robert Johnson
Fats Domino
Sam Cooke
Ray Charles
James Brown
Chuck Berry

That's EIGHT African American acts among the 14 acts in the inaugural class.


And the very next year was even more dominated by African American acts:

Jackie Wilson
Muddy Waters
T-Bone Walker
Big Joe Turner
Smokey Robinson
Clyde McPhatter
BB King
Louis Jordan
Marvin Gaye
Aretha Franklin
Bo Diddley
The Coasters

That's TWELVE African American acts among the 18 inducted that year.

Anything else you'd like me to prove wrong?

[Edited 12/19/15 17:23pm]

babynoz said:

Colin Powell? Seriously?

The letter writer's sense of proportion is waaaay off. This is hardly a life or death matter.

No doubt.

This is the part that cracks me up the most: "What artist today has not been influenced by Janet Jackson?"



Yes, they call it the "Entitlement Generation" for a reason ... always about getting the most for "me and my own", regardless of all the others who may be more deserving at that point in time.


Maybe I'll write my own letter on behalf of Kid Rock and Lenny Kravitz.

Pokeno4Money said:

mjscarousal said:

I don't know why you keep saying this when I have consistently said that my opinions are not solely based off this years inductions. I gave you evidence where you can see for yourself that the one black rule really exists and even a link that shows you black acts that have been snubbed year after year. (You even said yourself that white rock bands will naturally get picked more than black acts) so I am not sure why you continue to minimize this point when I presented evidence that supports it.

If the RHOF just wanted ONLY rock bands to be in the hall, then it would be just white rock bands in the hall.....but its not. Although RHOF may have "ROCK" in its title, the Hall is not a reflection of the title and its clear the hall does not want to be...period. The RHOF acknowledges influential and culturally groundbreaking artists that aided in the progression of music in some form. This is why they have chosen non rock acts over rock bands and have chosen to incorporate other genre oriented acts besides "rock" acts. IMO, since they want to incorporate and acknowledge other acts outside the rock genre, than they need to be fair in their selections. If they don't want to add other non rock acts into the hall anymore, than they need to stop doing it OR create a different hall that specifically acknowledges other non-rock acts.

Don't nominate Chic 10 times or nominate the Marvelettes 20 times knowing that you are never going to induct them, thats disrespectful.

Yes, I understand your opinions aren't solely based on this year. That's why I got the 37% for all inductees since the Hall's inception.

If they already "knew" they'd never induct those two acts, they wouldn't keep nominating them. And again, you have many many white acts who endured multiple decades of snubs ... why do you continue to ignore that fact?

And BTW in 2012 there were four African American acts, not three. You neglected to include The Midnighters. I didn't check your lists for accuracy, I just noticed 2012 because I attended that year.

Okay, you claim there's a "one black rule"? Guess who was included in the very first class of inductees:

Jimmy Yancey
Little Richard
Robert Johnson
Fats Domino
Sam Cooke
Ray Charles
James Brown
Chuck Berry

That's EIGHT African American acts among the 14 performers in the inaugural class.

[Edited 12/19/15 17:13pm]

The thing is though, I am not really disagreeing with what your overall point. I just wanted to also bring to your attention that race is also a factor in these nominations and snubs. I think I backed that up with evidence thats supports it but you keep minimizing this other factor which you even agreed with. I looked back over the 2012 year and you are correct, my mistake. However that is still 4 out of 17 acts and when you look at the pattern of how black acts are nominated and then inducted it typically sticks to a 1 or 2 rule at a time. You really think this one black at a time rule is a coincidence? You keep making excuses and exceptions. I didn't say this happened every single year but there is pattern with this happening more often than it should. There are decades of this one at a time black rule and you point out this ONE exception? Cmon now hun...

mjscarousal said:

Pokeno4Money said:

Yes, I understand your opinions aren't solely based on this year. That's why I got the 37% for all inductees since the Hall's inception.

If they already "knew" they'd never induct those two acts, they wouldn't keep nominating them. And again, you have many many white acts who endured multiple decades of snubs ... why do you continue to ignore that fact?

And BTW in 2012 there were four African American acts, not three. You neglected to include The Midnighters. I didn't check your lists for accuracy, I just noticed 2012 because I attended that year.

Okay, you claim there's a "one black rule"? Guess who was included in the very first class of inductees:

Jimmy Yancey
Little Richard
Robert Johnson
Fats Domino
Sam Cooke
Ray Charles
James Brown
Chuck Berry

That's EIGHT African American acts among the 14 performers in the inaugural class.

[Edited 12/19/15 17:13pm]

The thing is though, I am not really disagreeing with what your overall point. I just wanted to also bring to your attention that race is also a factor in these nominations and snubs. I think I backed that up with evidence thats supports it but you keep minimizing this other factor which you even agreed with. I looked back over the 2012 year and you are correct, my mistake. However that is still 4 out of 17 acts and when you look at the pattern of how black acts are nominated and then inducted it typically sticks to a 1 or 2 rule at a time. You really think this one black at a time rule is a coincidence? You keep making excuses and exceptions. I didn't say this happened every single year but there is pattern with this happening more often than it should. There are decades of this one at a time black rule and you point out this ONE exception? Cmon now hun...

Simple math, 37% means nearly 2 out of every 5 acts inducted is African American. It would be impossible to achieve 37% if it was almost always just one African American act inducted each year as you claim. Do the math!

The irony of it is, going forward there'd be virtually no African American acts inducted each year if the Rock Hall didn't expand the genres to rap/R&B/Hip Hop. They expanded the genres so they wouldn't be viewed as just a white rock musician Hall of Fame. Apparently no matter what they do, it isn't enough!

Well I think I've said all I needed to say on this subject, Happy Holidays to you

Pokeno4Money said:

mjscarousal said:

The thing is though, I am not really disagreeing with what your overall point. I just wanted to also bring to your attention that race is also a factor in these nominations and snubs. I think I backed that up with evidence thats supports it but you keep minimizing this other factor which you even agreed with. I looked back over the 2012 year and you are correct, my mistake. However that is still 4 out of 17 acts and when you look at the pattern of how black acts are nominated and then inducted it typically sticks to a 1 or 2 rule at a time. You really think this one black at a time rule is a coincidence? You keep making excuses and exceptions. I didn't say this happened every single year but there is pattern with this happening more often than it should. There are decades of this one at a time black rule and you point out this ONE exception? Cmon now hun...

Simple math, 37% means nearly 2 out of every 5 acts inducted is African American. It would be impossible to achieve 37% if it was almost always just one African American act inducted each year as you claim. Do the math!

The irony of it is, going forward there'd be virtually no African American acts inducted each year if the Rock Hall didn't expand the genres to rap/R&B/Hip Hop. They expanded the genres so they wouldn't be viewed as just a white rock musician Hall of Fame. Apparently no matter what they do, it isn't enough!

Well I think I've said all I needed to say on this subject, Happy Holidays to you

I know I wore you out Happy holidays to you too!