midnightmover said:

mjscarousal said:

This IS the same as that.

You just believe its not true because your a Prince stan

There was no reason for that posters threads to be deleted. There was no bickering or fighting in those threads.

The deletion of those threads are a pure example of individuals taking advantage of there authoritian roles simply because.... they can.

You are more dumber than I thought. There are no charges made against Michael. Wade filed a creditors claim ASKING FOR MONEY.

Yes, I am "more dumber" than you thought. And my grammar is even more worser!

Speak for yourself!!! Pick all the irrelevant things you want, it doesnt change the fact that those threads should not have been deleted period!

[Edited 5/23/13 3:12am]

[Edited 5/21/13 22:11pm]

[Edited 5/23/13 3:18am]

midnightmover said:

I discredited the insurance thing before you said a word about it. I was talking to Ace at the time. He was referring to the insane claim made by MJ fans (and still on wikipedia even now) that the insurance company went over Michael's head to pay off the boys. You agree with me that that is ridiculous, so there is no point us arguing about that. What's interesting is your blatant double standard. You think MJ wanting to avoid a trial is not at all proof of his guilt. Yet Jordan wanting to avoid a trial is proof that he must be lying. Even the dimmest of the dim would see what complete hypocrisy that is on your part.

Also, you talk about MJ's "supposed" anti-semitic rant... SUPPOSED?! SUPPOSED? Are you serious? It's not "supposed", you liar. It's right there on tape, him saying how "the Jews do it on purpose". This is the same time he was associating with the Nation of Islam who are known for their radical anti-semitism. And we all remember the original lyrics to TDCAU, don't we? Still, I'm glad you made that half-hearted attempt to dispute the indisputable. It merely proves how dishonest you guys are. You have to be. There is no other way to maintain the MJ-was-a-great-guy illusion.

Again. You discredited nothing. Also I never said it's ridiculous. I said, per Michael's interview with Diane Sawyer, that it was his decision and that at the end of the day, it doesn't matter which decision it was. The money didn't come out of his pocket, which obviously made his decision to pay to make these grifters go away much easier. And by the same token, the Chandler's taking the money of a millionaire, money that didn't came out of his pocket. To let him get away scot free. To leave him out there free to molest more children is not the same. It may be understandable that they opted to not go to trial once, but ten years later, when he supposedly molested even more children, the right thing to do would have been to finally go to trial. But again they refused.

Antisemitic, antisemtic. People may say something when they're angry or in a bad mood. But that may not totally reflect what they usually are thinking. And the Nation of Islam offered their help and he took it. But whatever... it's quite telling you're running with it. And again, it has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

And really, I only see one dim hypocrite. Using his one sided views to turn someone into a criminal. And don't get in here, like you are the picture of honesty. You told enough lies and made up bullshit in this thread.

@Free2BMe Could you please format your posts? The way they are now, they are totally unreadable.

SoulAlive said:

midnightmover said:

Don't you ever quit with the fake laughter? It's fooling no-one.

And you need to read reply#204. In that post I ran through about ten different points clearly pointing towards MJ's guilt. Not a single one of you denialists has even attempted to refute them. Too hard. They were just the tip of an iceberg too. As I'm sure many of your comrades know.

Your ten different points don't "prove" anything.Unless there is some clear,undisputable evidence,all we have are UNPROVEN ACCUSATIONS that don't mean nothing.I see you're choosing to ignore that lengthy article,but that writer makes alot of interesting points.Desperate times call for desperate measures.Shady,broke ass people will do or say anything for money.Wade Robson is just the latest example.

Interesting how you put the word "prove" in inverted commas as if you were quoting something I said when of course I never used the word "prove" once. Another sign of how dishonest you guys are. And I notice you refused to actually respond to any of the points. Typical.

Perhaps if you want to contribute something other than hot air to this thread you can tell us how you reconcile your acknowledgement of MJ's homosexuality with your completely relaxed attitude to his inviting lots of young pretty boys into his bed. It will be entertaining to watch you tap dance your way around that quandary.

midnightmover said:

SoulAlive said:

Your ten different points don't "prove" anything.Unless there is some clear,undisputable evidence,all we have are UNPROVEN ACCUSATIONS that don't mean nothing.I see you're choosing to ignore that lengthy article,but that writer makes alot of interesting points.Desperate times call for desperate measures.Shady,broke ass people will do or say anything for money.Wade Robson is just the latest example.

Interesting how you put the word "prove" in inverted commas as if you were quoting something I said when of course I never used the word "prove" once. Another sign of how dishonest you guys are. And I notice you refused to actually respond to any of the points. Typical.

Perhaps if you want to contribute something other than hot air to this thread you can tell us how you reconcile your acknowledgement of MJ's homosexuality with your completely relaxed attitude to his inviting lots of young pretty boys into his bed. It will be entertaining to watch you tap dance your way around that quandary.

Here we go again Look...YOU think Michael Jackson was a child molester.Fine...all I'm saying is,give us some clear,solid,ndisputable PROOF.All I see you doing is throwing around alot of unproven accusations,hearsay and rumors,trying to disguise them as "facts".You haven't said one word about Wade singing an entirely different tune in 2005.You're trying to skate around the fact that Wade is simply not a credible accuser.That's why you're ignoring that well-written,lengthy article that I posted.It contradicts many of the "points" that you tried to make.

PatrickS77 said:

midnightmover said:

I discredited the insurance thing before you said a word about it. I was talking to Ace at the time. He was referring to the insane claim made by MJ fans (and still on wikipedia even now) that the insurance company went over Michael's head to pay off the boys. You agree with me that that is ridiculous, so there is no point us arguing about that. What's interesting is your blatant double standard. You think MJ wanting to avoid a trial is not at all proof of his guilt. Yet Jordan wanting to avoid a trial is proof that he must be lying. Even the dimmest of the dim would see what complete hypocrisy that is on your part.

Also, you talk about MJ's "supposed" anti-semitic rant... SUPPOSED?! SUPPOSED? Are you serious? It's not "supposed", you liar. It's right there on tape, him saying how "the Jews do it on purpose". This is the same time he was associating with the Nation of Islam who are known for their radical anti-semitism. And we all remember the original lyrics to TDCAU, don't we? Still, I'm glad you made that half-hearted attempt to dispute the indisputable. It merely proves how dishonest you guys are. You have to be. There is no other way to maintain the MJ-was-a-great-guy illusion.

Again. You discredited nothing. Also I never said it's ridiculous. I said, per Michael's interview with Diane Sawyer, that it was his decision and that at the end of the day, it doesn't matter which decision it was. The money didn't come out of his pocket, which obviously made his decision to pay to make these grifters go away much easier. And by the same token, the Chandler's taking the money of a millionaire, money that didn't came out of his pocket. To let him get away scot free. To leave him out there free to molest more children is not the same. It may be understandable that they opted to not go to trial once, but ten years later, when he supposedly molested even more children, the right thing to do would have been to finally go to trial. But again they refused.

Antisemitic, antisemtic. People may say something when they're angry or in a bad mood. But that may not totally reflect what they usually are thinking. And the Nation of Islam offered their help and he took it. But whatever... it's quite telling you're running with it. And again, it has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

And really, I only see one dim hypocrite. Using his one sided views to turn someone into a criminal. And don't get in here, like you are the picture of honesty. You told enough lies and made up bullshit in this thread.

MJ fans are saying that an unnamed insurance company shoved MJ aside and - despite all his objections - paid $20 million to his accusers and you DON'T think that's ridiculous? Are you insane? And yes, I DID discredit that nonsense by pointing out that MJ himself confirmed in the Diane Sawyer interview that it was HIS decision to pay them off. According to him he said "I have got to do something to get out of this nightmare", so he met with his lawyers and decided to "resolve the case". Those are his words, not mine. So yes, pointing that out does indeed discredit the nonsensical claims of MJ fans who will even ignore their idol's own words when it's convenient. The whole insurance thing is a complete red-herring.

As for Jordan not wanting to speak, I have to ask you, do you have even the faintest understanding of the word "trauma"? Do you realise the anguish that child abuse victims go through? Speaking out about it is not the same as speaking about someone who sold you a dodgy car or burgled your house. The emotions involved are a million times deeper. This is why victims will stay silent for decades and even deny it to themselves for years. That is NORMAL! The fact that you loons are ignoring that is yet another example of your dishonesty. You're ignoring the basic psychology of child abuse!

As for MJ's anti-semitism, your attempts to fob it off are laughable. Most of us would never say the things he said on that tape because it's not in our hearts. Period. Obviously, it was in his. But we knew that anyway. It's right there in the original lyrics of "They Don't Care About Us". Who is "they" in that song? Why when the whole song is about people persecuting him does he SPECIFICALLY link it with Jews, even going so far as to use the racist word "kike" in the song. This idea of a Jewish conspiracy against him is not only repeated in the phone message he left, but it was also what he was referring to in that 2004 interview when he blamed the failure of his latest album on a "conspiracy". He said he couldn't say anymore about it, but the tape makes it clear what he was thinking of ("the Jews do it on purpose"). This is clearly what motivated him to have the notorious anti-semites the Nation of Islam standing prominently outside the court in 2003. Remember, Michael was not a Muslim. Not at all. So parading the Nation Of Islam outside the court was quite clearly an attempt to send a message to the Jews who he imagined - in his warped and paranoid mind - were conspiring against him.

mynameisnotsusan said:

I have no problem believing Wade would lie for Michael on the stand, just as I'm certain if any of these defenders got anywhere near MJ they would have lied for him too. Wade idolised MJ since a young age, he knew him well, he owes his career to him. Yet after the birth of his son he came to realise that what MJ did to him was WRONG. The idea that he would just flip and do it for cash doesn't make sense. How much money would it take for you to lie against the idol you worship ? A million bucks? 5 million ? 40 million ?? Is there any amount of money that would make you lie against MJ? No amount of money, right. Except Wade was much closer to MJ than any of you lot were. I love the fact MJ defenders are going so hard against Wade. Because this "lying piece of scumbag shit" was one of MJs strongest defence witnesses!! "He's not credible" Please, undermine him some more!

So,in your opinion....was he lying in 2005 or is he lying now? That's my whole point: he has NO credibility.

and like I said before...shady,broke ass people would say anything to get money.Wade Robson has fallen upon hard times.Until he came up with these new charges,I wasn't reading about him or hearing about him in the media at all.He was a forgotten has-been.

SoulAlive said:

midnightmover said:

Interesting how you put the word "prove" in inverted commas as if you were quoting something I said when of course I never used the word "prove" once. Another sign of how dishonest you guys are. And I notice you refused to actually respond to any of the points. Typical.

Perhaps if you want to contribute something other than hot air to this thread you can tell us how you reconcile your acknowledgement of MJ's homosexuality with your completely relaxed attitude to his inviting lots of young pretty boys into his bed. It will be entertaining to watch you tap dance your way around that quandary.

Here we go again Look...YOU think Michael Jackson was a child molester.Fine...all I'm saying is,give us some clear,solid,ndisputable PROOF.All I see you doing is throwing around alot of unproven accusations,hearsay and rumors,trying to disguise them as "facts".You haven't said one word about Wade singing an entirely different tune in 2005.You're trying to skate around the fact that Wade is simply not a credible accuser.That's why you're ignoring that well-written,lengthy article that I posted.It contradicts many of the "points" that you tried to make.

Once again you haven't countered a single one of my points nor even answered the questions I specifically asked you in my post. And you are also quite clearly lying in this post. You say that all I have is hearsay and rumours disguised as facts. This is a lie. The ten points I made in that post were all facts, not rumours. For instance it's a FACT that he had special alarms fitted in the hall leading to his bedroom. You can dispute the interpretation of these many facts, but you can't dispute that they are facts. As for Wade you are also being dishonest by DELIBERATELY ignoring the psychology of child abuse. Victims OFTEN deny it to themselves and to others for years. As I told your colleague, that is normal. You are choosing to ignore these complexities because it's easier for you that way.

Now, do you actually want to be a man and tackle that question I asked you about MJ's homosexuality? I'm looking forward to that one. I'm sure your fellow MJ defenders would also be fascinated to see you wrestle with that conundrum.

PatrickS77 said:

@Free2BMe Could you please format your posts? The way they are now, they are totally unreadable.

lol, this is the only thing you've said that I agree with. This guy probably spent hours typing those posts and he thinks people are reading them...... No-one's reading them because they're incomprehensible.

Let's try this again....

It goes without saying that accusations of abuse must always be taken seriously. When an individual has told one story very credibly and convincingly as an adult, however, and then suddenly changes it with no corroborating evidence (letters, photos, phone conversations, witnesses, etc.) to file a creditor’s claim, it deserves a healthy dose of skepticism. Believing such claims on faith can be dangerous, destroying lives and reputations with absolutely no proof beyond the accusation.

are we clear on that??

SoulAlive said:

Let's try this again....

It goes without saying that accusations of abuse must always be taken seriously. When an individual has told one story very credibly and convincingly as an adult, however, and then suddenly changes it with no corroborating evidence (letters, photos, phone conversations, witnesses, etc.) to file a creditor’s claim, it deserves a healthy dose of skepticism. Believing such claims on faith can be dangerous, destroying lives and reputations with absolutely no proof beyond the accusation.

are we clear on that??

You're doing it again. You've completely ignored my point about the psychology of child abuse. You've completely ignored the fact that it's normal for victims to deny it for years. Denial and repression are common defence mechanisms for victims of child abuse.

Now, I repeat for the third time, do you want to try being a man and explain to us how you agree that MJ is gay and yet you're completely relaxed about him inviting pretty little boys into his bed?

Graycap23 said:

Celebs

Wade Robson: 'Pedophile' Michael Jackson abused me for 7 years

Randee Dawn TODAY contributor

In 2005, Wade Robson was the first defense witness at Michael Jackson's trial, where the singer was accused of molesting a 13-year-old cancer survivor. At the time, Robson was unequivocal: He was not sexually abused by the man known as the King of Pop. But eight years later, he has changed his tune.

Exclusively on TODAY Thursday, the 30-year-old choreographer told Matt Lauer that Jackson, who died in 2009, was "a pedophile and a child sexual abuser."

Robson said Jackson abused him from ages 7 to 14: Jackson "performed sexual acts on me and forced me to perform sexual acts on him."

Robson is currently asking a probate court to allow him to file a late creditor's claim against the Jackson estate, now that the deadline has passed for creditors to file such claims. His claim comes as a case brought by Jackson's family against AEG Live, promoters of his final concert tour, has begun in civil court.

http://www.today.com/entertainment/wade-robson-pedophile-michael-jackson-abused-me-7-years-1C9948163

[Edited 5/16/13 11:41am]

If this guy is lying, with no concrete proof of his abuse, and MJ is not here to defend himself, I can see the courts going after him for two counts of perjury.

Ace said:

As Joan Rivers said, 'You don't give away $20 million for shaking hands.'

There could be a video of Michael Jackson with his penis in a boy's rectum and some of his fans would still try to explain it away.

I understand the desire to not want to believe horrific things about someone you've admired, but the pay-off to the first kid is proof enough for me (as it should be for you, if you're not wilfully donning blinders). And please spare me the rationalization that the insurance company made him settle. We all know how insurance companies love to give millions of dollars away.

It's okay, folks - you can like the art, but not the artist.

All I know is if I had a son that was molested/raped by any celebrity, I would wanted the case in criminal court, NOT civil court. If I knew (OR I think I knew) that celebrity was guilty of the crime, I would not wanted his/her money. Personally, I would want him/her dead. But at the least, I would definitely want him/her sentenced to prison without parole for many decades.

With that said, it's already well-documented in retrospect, that the kid's father, the late Evan Chandler was a liar AND a con artist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...ite_note-2

TonyVanDam said:

Ace said:

As Joan Rivers said, 'You don't give away $20 million for shaking hands.'

There could be a video of Michael Jackson with his penis in a boy's rectum and some of his fans would still try to explain it away.

I understand the desire to not want to believe horrific things about someone you've admired, but the pay-off to the first kid is proof enough for me (as it should be for you, if you're not wilfully donning blinders). And please spare me the rationalization that the insurance company made him settle. We all know how insurance companies love to give millions of dollars away.

It's okay, folks - you can like the art, but not the artist.

All I know is if I had a son that was molested/raped by any celebrity, I would wanted the case in criminal court, NOT civil court. If I knew (OR I think I knew) that celebrity was guilty of the crime, I would not wanted his/her money. Personally, I would want him/her dead. But at the least, I would definitely want him/her sentenced to prison without parole for many decades.

With that said, it's already well-documented in retrospect, that the kid's father, the late Evan Chandler was a liar AND a con artist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...ite_note-2

Plus,it was also proven that the mother of the second accuser is a total liar and scam artist.She was found guilty of welfare fraud and even filed a bogus lawsuit against JC Penney.

SoulAlive said:

TonyVanDam said:

All I know is if I had a son that was molested/raped by any celebrity, I would wanted the case in criminal court, NOT civil court. If I knew (OR I think I knew) that celebrity was guilty of the crime, I would not wanted his/her money. Personally, I would want him/her dead. But at the least, I would definitely want him/her sentenced to prison without parole for many decades.

With that said, it's already well-documented in retrospect, that the kid's father, the late Evan Chandler was a liar AND a con artist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...ite_note-2

Plus,it was also proven that the mother of the second accuser is a total liar and scam artist.She was found guilty of welfare fraud and even filed a bogus lawsuit against JC Penney.

Oh don't worry, I haven't forgotten about THAT^ lying bitch. And lets not forget how she once used her own son as a distraction while she was shoplifting at the same JC Penney location she would filed the bogus lawsuit against later on.

mynameisnotsusan said:

I have no problem believing Wade would lie for Michael on the stand, just as I'm certain if any of these defenders got anywhere near MJ they would have lied for him too. Wade idolised MJ since a young age, he knew him well, he owes his career to him. Yet after the birth of his son he came to realise that what MJ did to him was WRONG. The idea that he would just flip and do it for cash doesn't make sense. How much money would it take for you to lie against the idol you worship ? A million bucks? 5 million ? 40 million ?? Is there any amount of money that would make you lie against MJ? No amount of money, right. Except Wade was much closer to MJ than any of you lot were. I love the fact MJ defenders are going so hard against Wade. Because this "lying piece of scumbag shit" was one of MJs strongest defence witnesses!! "He's not credible" Please, undermine him some more!

Precise.

"Money" makes no sense as a motive, because this lawsuit is absolutely THE WORST WAY TO MAKE MONEY, EVER. He's not even going to make any money, and now he's a perjurer!

Kids don't report molestation. Kids lie about it, because they think it's their fault. Plus, this was Michael Jackson. I don't even know if I'd have the strength to report it.

I agree that no matter what, Wade lied (then, or now). I agree that he's going for money (and I don't know why, exactly). But the narrative that Wade "fell on hard times" and so pulled this out of his ass only makes sense if he's incredibly 1. stupid, 2. crazy, or 3. on drugs.

[Edited 5/22/13 9:57am]

Wade filed a creditors claim asking for money from the MJ Estate.

Are people aware of this?

Why do people keep insisting money is not a motive when he clearly made statements in documents demanding MONEY from the MJ Estate

You think the MJ Estate is just going to hand him over money just because he demanded it and not challenge these absurd claims?

[Edited 5/22/13 10:39am]

Mintchip said:

mynameisnotsusan said:

I have no problem believing Wade would lie for Michael on the stand, just as I'm certain if any of these defenders got anywhere near MJ they would have lied for him too. Wade idolised MJ since a young age, he knew him well, he owes his career to him. Yet after the birth of his son he came to realise that what MJ did to him was WRONG. The idea that he would just flip and do it for cash doesn't make sense. How much money would it take for you to lie against the idol you worship ? A million bucks? 5 million ? 40 million ?? Is there any amount of money that would make you lie against MJ? No amount of money, right. Except Wade was much closer to MJ than any of you lot were. I love the fact MJ defenders are going so hard against Wade. Because this "lying piece of scumbag shit" was one of MJs strongest defence witnesses!! "He's not credible" Please, undermine him some more!

Precise.

"Money" makes no sense as a motive, because this lawsuit is absolutely THE WORST WAY TO MAKE MONEY, EVER. He's not even going to make any money, and now he's a perjurer!

Kids don't report molestation. Kids lie about it, because they think it's their fault. Plus, this was Michael Jackson. I don't even know if I'd have the strength to report it.

I agree that no matter what, Wade lied (then, or now). I agree that he's going for money (and I don't know why, exactly). But the narrative that Wade "fell on hard times" and so pulled this out of his ass only makes sense if he's incredibly 1. stupid, 2. crazy, or 3. on drugs.

[Edited 5/22/13 9:57am]

This dude would be a lot more believeable if he came out with the accusations and didn't ask for any money. If he had just said, MJ molested him but he loved MJ so he lied for him because he didn't want to see him go to jail, I would think maybe, possibly, even probably. But to say it's not about money and to then file 2 claims seeking money.......he needs to get somewhere and sit down.

mjscarousal said:

Wade filed a creditors claim asking for money from the MJ Estate.

Are people aware of this?

Why do people keep insisting money is not a motive when he clearly made statements in documents demanding MONEY from the MJ Estate

You think the MJ Estate is just going to hand him over money just because he demanded it and not challenge these absurd claims?

Yep...this is not about an abused "victim" trying to heal.This is about a low-life opportunist who wants to get paid.Now that the MJ estate is worth a billion dollars (and counting),we may see other money-starved parasites coming out of the woodwork all of a sudden.It's sickening.

illimack said:

This dude would be a lot more believeable if he came out with the accusations and didn't ask for any money. If he had just said, MJ molested him but he loved MJ so he lied for him because he didn't want to see him go to jail, I would think maybe, possibly, even probably. But to say it's not about money and to then file 2 claims seeking money.......he needs to get somewhere and sit down.

Precisely.

SoulAlive said:

mjscarousal said:

Wade filed a creditors claim asking for money from the MJ Estate.

Are people aware of this?

Why do people keep insisting money is not a motive when he clearly made statements in documents demanding MONEY from the MJ Estate

You think the MJ Estate is just going to hand him over money just because he demanded it and not challenge these absurd claims?

Yep...this is not about an abused "victim" trying to heal.This is about a low-life opportunist who wants to get paid.Now that the MJ estate is worth a billion dollars (and counting),we may see other money-starved parasites coming out of the woodwork all of a sudden.It's sickening.

That's what I'm afraid of

The judge will toss out Wade's case.With no "smoking gun" evidence,he doesn't have a case.

SoulAlive said:

The judge will toss out Wade's case.With no "smoking gun" evidence,he doesn't have a case.

Wade wants to use testimony from the housekeeper who testified AGAINST Michael in 2005 saying she HEARD Wade and Michael shower off together after swimming, but obviously it was not enough to convince a jury then.

[Edited 5/22/13 16:47pm]

[Edited 5/22/13 16:55pm]