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Thread started 04/11/13 10:36pm

Bester24

White privilege in music

confused

Does anyone believe there is still white privilege in music? I personally believe there is. I mean why is Elvis and the Beatles STILL the best selling artists in America when really it should be MJ and Whitney. Why is Elvis still considered the King of Rock And Roll... we all know the truth behind the origins of RocknRoll but Elvis is still champ? Why is Eminem the best selling rapper ever, above Tupac and (maybe) Outkast. He's definitely not more talented than either one of them, so I mean WTF?! I know white privilege permeates throught society in general as well but I want to talk about music for this particular post because I am such a big fan of music. What do you think?

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Reply #1 posted 04/11/13 11:30pm

Gunsnhalen

oh lord Jesus & Buddha on a cracker for fucking real? lol

You think it's white privledge cause your favorite isn't the best selling artist of all time? the fact is The Beatles did sell more than MJ & Whitney as did Elvis... i mean come on lol

Yes there is still a lot of white privilege in the world & hell even music but just cause artists you love aren't selling millions does not make it white privilege... Frank Zappa & Captain Beefheart never were selling million dollar albums and there white... while Terence Trent D'arby, Living Colour are black artists and have not sold much either...

Point is there are tons of artists from every race that are not selling and it is not really white privilege more so than marketing & what is hot...

Back in the day yes it was very hard and cruel for a lot of African American artists like Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Ray Charles, Stevie Wonder, Smokey Robinson etc.

I mean yall can argue all you want with me about how much white privilege is imodernnmusic when the radio stations are playing nothing but Nicki Minaj, Rihanna, 2chainz, Lil Wayne, Chris Brown etc.

Might i add they are also the ones selling the most singles and being overplayed the most... and marketed the most.

Plus on top of that why the hell do sales even matter? lol lol

When Rihanna gets more number 1s than Michael Jackson are you going to be screaming about that? lol

Pistols sounded like "Fuck off," wheras The Clash sounded like "Fuck Off, but here's why.."- Thedigitialgardener

All music is shit music and no music is real- gunsnhalen

Datdonkeydick- Asherfierce

Gary Hunts Album Isn't That Good- Soulalive
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Reply #2 posted 04/11/13 11:38pm

Timmy84

Just because Marvin didn't sell as much as Elvis don't mean it's a bad thing. Todd Rundgren didn't sell all that much and he ain't black lol whatever man.

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Reply #3 posted 04/11/13 11:44pm

Gunsnhalen

Timmy84 said:

Just because Marvin didn't sell as much as Elvis don't mean it's a bad thing. Todd Rundgren didn't sell all that much and he ain't black lol whatever man.

My point exactly!

As said it is a sad thing but white privilege still exists througout the world and being a white straight male yes you do have it a lot easier than most people.

But from what i see black artists dominant the charts, singles & sales right now and have for a few years...

Puff Daddy has more number one hits than Bob Dylan, Van Halen has sold more records than Marvin Gaye.

And just because one artist got more than another chart wise doesn't mean they are better or reign supreme wink

Pistols sounded like "Fuck off," wheras The Clash sounded like "Fuck Off, but here's why.."- Thedigitialgardener

All music is shit music and no music is real- gunsnhalen

Datdonkeydick- Asherfierce

Gary Hunts Album Isn't That Good- Soulalive
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Reply #4 posted 04/12/13 12:02am

Timmy84

Gunsnhalen said:

Timmy84 said:

Just because Marvin didn't sell as much as Elvis don't mean it's a bad thing. Todd Rundgren didn't sell all that much and he ain't black lol whatever man.

My point exactly!

As said it is a sad thing but white privilege still exists througout the world and being a white straight male yes you do have it a lot easier than most people.

But from what i see black artists dominant the charts, singles & sales right now and have for a few years...

Puff Daddy has more number one hits than Bob Dylan, Van Halen has sold more records than Marvin Gaye.

And just because one artist got more than another chart wise doesn't mean they are better or reign supreme wink

Exactly lol

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Reply #5 posted 04/12/13 12:22am

Bester24

Who said I would be screaming if something like that happened? The thought just came across my mind and I decided to ask it. No different than what other people on this board do. Calm the fuck down lol

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Reply #6 posted 04/12/13 12:50am

Gunsnhalen

Bester24 said:

Who said I would be screaming if something like that happened? The thought just came across my mind and I decided to ask it. No different than what other people on this board do. Calm the fuck down lol

But you are trying to say that white privilege exists because you think Whitney & MJ should have outsold The Beatles by now? lol

Pistols sounded like "Fuck off," wheras The Clash sounded like "Fuck Off, but here's why.."- Thedigitialgardener

All music is shit music and no music is real- gunsnhalen

Datdonkeydick- Asherfierce

Gary Hunts Album Isn't That Good- Soulalive
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Reply #7 posted 04/12/13 12:51am

BlaqueKnight

avatar

There is white priviliege in any and all aspects of American life, including music. This is not news. We deal with it and keep on moving. Never let anything stop you from doing you.

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Reply #8 posted 04/12/13 2:46am

TD3

avatar

BlaqueKnight said:

There is white priviliege in any and all aspects of American life, including music. This is not news. We deal with it and keep on moving. Never let anything stop you from doing you.

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Reply #9 posted 04/12/13 3:02am

Harlepolis

[img:$uid]http://i.imgur.com/O1zDJ.gif[/img:$uid]

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Reply #10 posted 04/12/13 3:10am

Emancipation89

I think for OP to insist his/her favorite should be the best selling artist in the world isn't quite the most logical way to approach this topic but it still is an interesting discussion I'd like to participate in. I'm gonna try to keep "who's the best" crap to a minimum though wink

Since I'm most familiar with the generation that grew up on Eminem out of all the ones you've mentioned I'm gonna use him as an example. The US is the biggest music market in the world and around 70% of Americans are white/European American/Caucasians. In my opinion it's easy to understand why he sold more records than other rappers not just in the states but in Canada Europe and Asia compared to other hip hop artists and it's not because his songs are superior in any way, because they really aren't.

1. The content of his songs as a white rapper. Especially when you go abroad it matters even more. I mean when I really think about hip hop culture and how it originated, it makes clear sense to me. If you were a white European or Asian who's not even familiar with racism issues in the US, what type of music do you think you'd gravitate towards to more? Black rappers who talk about racism, money, bitches & ho's and then some more racism and injustice of American society? Or a white rapper who talks about relatively common issues, bitches & ho's, and weird al-like comedic parodies that's easy to listen to and watch to get a silly laugh out of it? (I'm not implying black rappers don't use humor and parodies but generally speaking.) Even when Eminem gets "deep" it's either his personal stories or universal problems that everyone can relate to, as his biggest hits speak for themselves.

2. His physical appearance as a white guy. If you grew up surrounded only by people of your own race, I understand how uncommon it could actually be especially for teenagers to decide to pick up a record or go to a concert by artists of other races that you were never used to seeing. Sure there's TV and the internet everywhere nowadays but when it comes to spending money I think people become more fussy. On top of that rap music still has that exclusivity compared to pop. That would be the case for a lot of midwesterners, most Canadians and Europeans but from what I saw, even a lot of Asian countries seem to accept and promote white americans more than African American/Latino celebrities. Sadly the way you look plays a big part to this date when it comes to sales and how commercial you can get..

3. (Personally I don't think this is heavily related to his race like above two reasons I've mentioned but) He enunciates his words when raps, and there's not that many hip hop artists who do that - believe it or not this really makes a big difference to not only folks who're not familiar with rap music but especially to people who speak English as a second language.

It's incredibly naive for anyone to think race doesn't play a role in not only album sales but in movies, television, the media and basically everywhere else. (imo, how big of a role it plays has been gradually changing for the last few decades, in a good way.) But since we're on topic, I'd also like to talk about "American privilege" - if you're American and become a superstar, you are pretty much guaranteed to have a solid fanbase in Canada, Latin America, Europe, Asia, Australia, etc....Other than Beatles I've never really seen that happen for any other non-Americans.

In addition to that there's English-speaking privilege also lol. Canadian, British and Australian artists are obviously more generally and widely accepted in the US with the exception of Abba and Shakira. Gang-nam style is just as catchy and horrible quality-wise as LMFAO's "Sexy and I know It" but it never reached #1 in the US because it's not an English song (at least I think that was the main reason)

Gotta go but I'll come back to elaborate on this in the morning lol

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Reply #11 posted 04/12/13 3:13am

Gunsfan

Isn't it black privilege these days? All I hear on the radio is talentless claptrap from shitty artists like Rihanna, Beyonce, Chris Brown, Jay Z, Lil Wayne etc.

[Edited 4/12/13 3:15am]

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Reply #12 posted 04/12/13 3:19am

Emancipation89

Gunsfan said:

Isn't it black privilege these days? All I hear on the radio is talentless claptrap from shitty artists like Rihanna, Beyonce, Chris Brown, Jay Z, Lil Wayne etc.

[Edited 4/12/13 3:15am]

Yeah because compare to them what Kesha, Miley Cyrus, Eminem, Katy Perry, Skylar Grey put out is not shitty at all? I'll come back with a longer list in the morning lol

[Edited 4/12/13 3:20am]

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Reply #13 posted 04/12/13 4:44am

mjscarousal

^

I dont think that was the point that poster was trying to make. lol

We know the state of the music industry is not very good regardless of race but there are alot of successful african american stars today (regardless of how much talent they have or how good there music is)

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Reply #14 posted 04/12/13 5:03am

mjscarousal

Bester24 said:

confused

Does anyone believe there is still white privilege in music? I personally believe there is. I mean why is Elvis and the Beatles STILL the best selling artists in America when really it should be MJ and Whitney. Why is Elvis still considered the King of Rock And Roll... we all know the truth behind the origins of RocknRoll but Elvis is still champ? Why is Eminem the best selling rapper ever, above Tupac and (maybe) Outkast. He's definitely not more talented than either one of them, so I mean WTF?! I know white privilege permeates throught society in general as well but I want to talk about music for this particular post because I am such a big fan of music. What do you think?

MJ is third behind Elvis and The Beatles as far as sales so he is not that far behind them lol (I think he will eventually surpass him in the future because he is so close)

Quiet as it kept, MJ was/is bigger than Elvis world wide because he has fans of many generations, demographics and backgrounds. (I know the media likes to lump him with Elvis but he was way bigger than him)----so I agree with your arguement to a degree when it comes to that issue

When it comes down to certain artists that card is played but not ALL the time.

On Eminem: I dont think that necessarily has anything to do with white priviledge. Em made different kind of music than Tupac/Outkast and his music was marketed differently. There are a ton of African American rappers that sell alot Lil Wayne, Jay Z etc it doesnt mean there talented or there music is good they just have cross over appeal or good marketing.

I dont think racism exists in music as much as it once did but to rule it out completely is like arguing the grass is not green or the sky is not blue.

Just because its not a visible issue doesnt mean it still doesnt exist. (And that is what pisses me off about people when it comes to that issue but thats another topic lol )

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Reply #15 posted 04/12/13 5:06am

MrUFOman93

Of course.

http://img.musiquemag.fr/datas/artiste/j/u/justin-timberlake/n/pochette-album-justin-timberlake-l-album-the-20-20-experience-cover-tracklist-5113628895bbc.jpg?v=201302070915

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Reply #16 posted 04/12/13 6:42am

Graycap23

White privilege in every facet of life.

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Reply #17 posted 04/12/13 7:16am

mjscarousal

Graycap23 said:

White privilege in every facet of life.

Truth.cm

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Reply #18 posted 04/12/13 7:24am

kitbradley

avatar

Bester24 said:

confused

Does anyone believe there is still white privilege in music? I personally believe there is. I mean why is Elvis and the Beatles STILL the best selling artists in America when really it should be MJ and Whitney. Why is Elvis still considered the King of Rock And Roll... we all know the truth behind the origins of RocknRoll but Elvis is still champ? Why is Eminem the best selling rapper ever, above Tupac and (maybe) Outkast. He's definitely not more talented than either one of them, so I mean WTF?! I know white privilege permeates throught society in general as well but I want to talk about music for this particular post because I am such a big fan of music. What do you think?

I believe Mimi and Nippy are the same as far as sales are concerned so why would you leave Mimi off? They are both two of the best selling artists of all time. Each has over 200 millions records sold.

"It's not nice to fuck with K.B.! All you haters will see!" - Kitbradley
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Reply #19 posted 04/12/13 9:38am

BlaqueKnight

avatar

We can go back and forth on artists all day long. The real differences are behind the scenes, where the average person does not venture.

The real differences come in when its time to get that money. Most of the BIG bosses in music are old white guys. Yeah, you can name Diddy, L.A. Reid and a couple of others but those guys are mid-level to upper mid-level players and are just tokens put in place to keep up appearances. None are on Sumner Redstone's level or people of his ilk. They are all older white males and most are Jewish.
Everyone in the industry knows there is a club and everyone knows who's in it. People in the industry know who signs the checks and they know who not to piss off.
In the promotions game, if you are black, you are not allowed access to rock or pop shows. Promoters will promote ANYONE WHO WILL BRING IN REVENUE. Its not that black promoters don't want to promote white artists; THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO.
William Morris is big business and big business is white privileged. If a black promoter tried to promote Timberlake or Pink or Taylor Swift, they would not be allowed to., even if everything else was already in place (venue, etc.)
If a white promoter wanted to promote any black artist or artist of color, they are allowed full access. The promotions game is the legwork of the music industry and is still almost as racist as it was in the 60s. It still operates the same way because there is no checks and balances system in the promotions game.
Almost all of the equipment rental businesses are white owned. If you book a venue, you have to also rent the sound system if the venue does not have its own available for rent.

The black-owned rental businesses usually rent to very small venue-.
So, yeah you can be a black artist because they have your ass under contract nd you are an indentured servant. 360 deals are as common as sub prime loans for black artists. You can create the music, produce other artists, mix the music (although most studio owners are also white) and you can operate in limited capacities in other aspects of the game. Make no mistake, there IS white privilege and even racism in the music biz. The faces on the outside don't reflect the faces on the inside.

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Reply #20 posted 04/12/13 9:49am

Graycap23

BlaqueKnight said:

We can go back and forth on artists all day long. The real differences are behind the scenes, where the average person does not venture.

The real differences come in when its time to get that money. Most of the BIG bosses in music are old white guys. Yeah, you can name Diddy, L.A. Reid and a couple of others but those guys are mid-level to upper mid-level players and are just tokens put in place to keep up appearances. None are on Sumner Redstone's level or people of his ilk. They are all older white males and most are Jewish.
Everyone in the industry knows there is a club and everyone knows who's in it. People in the industry know who signs the checks and they know who not to piss off.
In the promotions game, if you are black, you are not allowed access to rock or pop shows. Promoters will promote ANYONE WHO WILL BRING IN REVENUE. Its not that black promoters don't want to promote white artists; THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO.
William Morris is big business and big business is white privileged. If a black promoter tried to promote Timberlake or Pink or Taylor Swift, they would not be allowed to., even if everything else was already in place (venue, etc.)
If a white promoter wanted to promote any black artist or artist of color, they are allowed full access. The promotions game is the legwork of the music industry and is still almost as racist as it was in the 60s. It still operates the same way because there is no checks and balances system in the promotions game.
Almost all of the equipment rental businesses are white owned. If you book a venue, you have to also rent the sound system if the venue does not have its own available for rent.

The black-owned rental businesses usually rent to very small venue-.
So, yeah you can be a black artist because they have your ass under contract nd you are an indentured servant. 360 deals are as common as sub prime loans for black artists. You can create the music, produce other artists, mix the music (although most studio owners are also white) and you can operate in limited capacities in other aspects of the game. Make no mistake, there IS white privilege and even racism in the music biz. The faces on the outside don't reflect the faces on the inside.

Bingo.

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Reply #21 posted 04/12/13 10:36am

Gunsnhalen

Alright if all of you want to get very into this let me say something since i work in the film and music video industry.

Ever since i started doing sound design on bigger projects i have met a lot of people from different areas of the so called entertainment industry. Now i am just a sound guy so no one gives 2 fucks about me lol

But everyone else musicians, actors, directors, writers etc.

Have to got through many big businesses in the industry to get somewhere and guess what they are run by white, black & Asian people for the most part. Hell did y'all know a lot of big execs at Sony, Columbia records, Geffen etc. Are Asian? a large majority of the people marketing, hiring and selling artists there are actually Asian and quite a few are African American as well.

Y'all want to talk about real problems in the fuckin industry? IMAGE that is where the problem is.

The problem is people will do anything to gets signed and have a stupid image to go with it...

I worked on a music video for a rapper who has green hair, wears green clothes & drives a green car also has green rings batting eyes that is his gimmick and a ton of people fall for it.

There is image problems more than anything most execs don't even care what color you are as long as your are sexy or have an image that sells and i have heard dozens of meetings with this being said.

Is there still racism in the industry? homophobia? of course that shit will always exists sadly. But there is a ton of people who are homosexual who run shit now as well as African Americans, Latinos, Asians etc.

I am simply putting out what i have seen and learned and i know i am just a sound man so i don't get to go deep into the industry confused sad

But the fact is people of all races are running shit but if you don't have image or even act a certain way(maybe even a stereotype) you won't get in for the big bucks...

And as far as the stereotyping goes hate to tell y'all(But you should honestly already know) that a lot of black and Asian people look for rappers who fit into the stereotype... and try to find pop starlets who act dumb and slutty.

So from what i witnessed it's people of all races doing shit behind closed doors... sure tons of white people still do it but they are not the only ones nowadays so i am 50/50 on this white privilege talk.

They want to find a million Tyler Perry wannabe movies in the industry and i promise it is not just white people trying to look and promote it smile

Peace.

Pistols sounded like "Fuck off," wheras The Clash sounded like "Fuck Off, but here's why.."- Thedigitialgardener

All music is shit music and no music is real- gunsnhalen

Datdonkeydick- Asherfierce

Gary Hunts Album Isn't That Good- Soulalive
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Reply #22 posted 04/12/13 10:39am

Graycap23

Gunsnhalen said:

Alright if all of you want to get very into this let me say something since i work in the film and music video industry.

Ever since i started doing sound design on bigger projects i have met a lot of people from different areas of the so called entertainment industry. Now i am just a sound guy so no one gives 2 fucks about me lol

But everyone else musicians, actors, directors, writers etc.

Have to got through many big businesses in the industry to get somewhere and guess what they are run by white, black & Asian people for the most part. Hell did y'all know a lot of big execs at Sony, Columbia records, Geffen etc. Are Asian? a large majority of the people marketing, hiring and selling artists there are actually Asian and quite a few are African American as well.

Y'all want to talk about real problems in the fuckin industry? IMAGE that is where the problem is.

The problem is people will do anything to gets signed and have a stupid image to go with it...

I worked on a music video for a rapper who has green hair, wears green clothes & drives a green car also has green rings batting eyes that is his gimmick and a ton of people fall for it.

There is image problems more than anything most execs don't even care what color you are as long as your are sexy or have an image that sells and i have heard dozens of meetings with this being said.

Is there still racism in the industry? homophobia? of course that shit will always exists sadly. But there is a ton of people who are homosexual who run shit now as well as African Americans, Latinos, Asians etc.

I am simply putting out what i have seen and learned and i know i am just a sound man so i don't get to go deep into the industry confused sad

But the fact is people of all races are running shit but if you don't have image or even act a certain way(maybe even a stereotype) you won't get in for the big bucks...

And as far as the stereotyping goes hate to tell y'all(But you should honestly already know) that a lot of black and Asian people look for rappers who fit into the stereotype... and try to find pop starlets who act dumb and slutty.

So from what i witnessed it's people of all races doing shit behind closed doors... sure tons of white people still do it but they are not the only ones nowadays so i am 50/50 on this white privilege talk.

They want to find a million Tyler Perry wannabe movies in the industry and i promise it is not just white people trying to look and promote it smile

Peace.

I'd suggest u re-read BlaqueKnight's comment.


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Reply #23 posted 04/12/13 10:43am

kitbradley

avatar

Gunsnhalen said:

And as far as the stereotyping goes hate to tell y'all(But you should honestly already know) that a lot of black and Asian people look for rappers who fit into the stereotype...

I was going to ask you why is Rick Ross so popular? He's, at best, a marginal rapper and Lord knows, physically, he's a marketing nightmare. But, I kept reading and you answered my question. lol

"It's not nice to fuck with K.B.! All you haters will see!" - Kitbradley
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Reply #24 posted 04/12/13 11:48am

Gunsnhalen

Graycap23 said:

Gunsnhalen said:

Alright if all of you want to get very into this let me say something since i work in the film and music video industry.

Ever since i started doing sound design on bigger projects i have met a lot of people from different areas of the so called entertainment industry. Now i am just a sound guy so no one gives 2 fucks about me lol

But everyone else musicians, actors, directors, writers etc.

Have to got through many big businesses in the industry to get somewhere and guess what they are run by white, black & Asian people for the most part. Hell did y'all know a lot of big execs at Sony, Columbia records, Geffen etc. Are Asian? a large majority of the people marketing, hiring and selling artists there are actually Asian and quite a few are African American as well.

Y'all want to talk about real problems in the fuckin industry? IMAGE that is where the problem is.

The problem is people will do anything to gets signed and have a stupid image to go with it...

I worked on a music video for a rapper who has green hair, wears green clothes & drives a green car also has green rings batting eyes that is his gimmick and a ton of people fall for it.

There is image problems more than anything most execs don't even care what color you are as long as your are sexy or have an image that sells and i have heard dozens of meetings with this being said.

Is there still racism in the industry? homophobia? of course that shit will always exists sadly. But there is a ton of people who are homosexual who run shit now as well as African Americans, Latinos, Asians etc.

I am simply putting out what i have seen and learned and i know i am just a sound man so i don't get to go deep into the industry confused sad

But the fact is people of all races are running shit but if you don't have image or even act a certain way(maybe even a stereotype) you won't get in for the big bucks...

And as far as the stereotyping goes hate to tell y'all(But you should honestly already know) that a lot of black and Asian people look for rappers who fit into the stereotype... and try to find pop starlets who act dumb and slutty.

So from what i witnessed it's people of all races doing shit behind closed doors... sure tons of white people still do it but they are not the only ones nowadays so i am 50/50 on this white privilege talk.

They want to find a million Tyler Perry wannabe movies in the industry and i promise it is not just white people trying to look and promote it smile

Peace.

I'd suggest u re-read BlaqueKnight's comment.


He is wrong in a lot of his statements. Black artists promote white artist, asian artist promote black artist and so ona nd so fourth. So i find that comment entierly false i am afraid.

And also a lot of people of every color are tricking artists into 360 deals it is not JUST whites. I mean ya'll can believe what you want i am just simply saying what i learned and have personally seen from the music industry wink

Pistols sounded like "Fuck off," wheras The Clash sounded like "Fuck Off, but here's why.."- Thedigitialgardener

All music is shit music and no music is real- gunsnhalen

Datdonkeydick- Asherfierce

Gary Hunts Album Isn't That Good- Soulalive
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Reply #25 posted 04/12/13 11:53am

Timmy84

Black folks (in the radio industry) were reasons folks like Johnnie Ray and Elvis got through. Elvis was a harder sell for blacks and whites because to whites when they first heard him he sounded black and to blacks, he was too hillbilly, but somehow he got through. Johnnie Ray was mistaken for a black woman when "Cry" first came out. If you wanna know how Elvis initially got ahead, ask Rufus Thomas' family.

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Reply #26 posted 04/12/13 11:58am

Graycap23

Gunsnhalen said:

Graycap23 said:

I'd suggest u re-read BlaqueKnight's comment.


He is wrong in a lot of his statements. Black artists promote white artist, asian artist promote black artist and so ona nd so fourth. So i find that comment entierly false i am afraid.

And also a lot of people of every color are tricking artists into 360 deals it is not JUST whites. I mean ya'll can believe what you want i am just simply saying what i learned and have personally seen from the music industry wink

Take a look.............from the TOP down.

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Reply #27 posted 04/12/13 12:02pm

Gunsnhalen

Graycap23 said:

Gunsnhalen said:

He is wrong in a lot of his statements. Black artists promote white artist, asian artist promote black artist and so ona nd so fourth. So i find that comment entierly false i am afraid.

And also a lot of people of every color are tricking artists into 360 deals it is not JUST whites. I mean ya'll can believe what you want i am just simply saying what i learned and have personally seen from the music industry wink

Take a look.............from the TOP down.

Lord -.- i have and i actually kind of work in the industry so i am saying what i have personally seen but if ya'll wanna believe what you wanna believe go right ahead lol

why don't we ask Kcool as well since he supposedly is making movies with Will Smith and shit lol

Pistols sounded like "Fuck off," wheras The Clash sounded like "Fuck Off, but here's why.."- Thedigitialgardener

All music is shit music and no music is real- gunsnhalen

Datdonkeydick- Asherfierce

Gary Hunts Album Isn't That Good- Soulalive
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Reply #28 posted 04/12/13 12:05pm

Timmy84

Gunsnhalen said:

Graycap23 said:

Take a look.............from the TOP down.

Lord -.- i have and i actually kind of work in the industry so i am saying what i have personally seen but if ya'll wanna believe what you wanna believe go right ahead lol

why don't we ask Kcool as well since he supposedly is making movies with Will Smith and shit lol

falloff

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Reply #29 posted 04/12/13 12:24pm

Graycap23

Gunsnhalen said:

Graycap23 said:

Take a look.............from the TOP down.

Lord -.- i have and i actually kind of work in the industry so i am saying what i have personally seen but if ya'll wanna believe what you wanna believe go right ahead lol

why don't we ask Kcool as well since he supposedly is making movies with Will Smith and shit lol

edit

[Edited 4/12/13 12:25pm]

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