purple05 said:

The only place Janet arguably outshines him is in the video. Vocally she didn't and wasn't even a threat IMO. So I don't understand this whole thing about mixing down her vocals when you barley hear her in her tracks. She even said it happens sometime during production from what I remember. In the video you have Janet in her prime and MJ past his so I never thought that was a fair comparison. Honestly I just never looked at the video and tried to compare them anyway. I will say that Janet was badass and that was her peak as a performer. She was really doing the damn thing. Janet in her peak was NEVER bigger than MJ. She had more chart success than him for a period of time but that's it

I was afraid this would turn into a janet thread. I am a huge fan of hers, but I agree she was a very popular artist at the time, but no one had ever been a worldwide megastar at his level, including her. And both were amazing in the video, I couldn't simmer down for a few days when it came out.

Janets vocals in the second verse of "Scream" was amazing(even though he lowered them).I was actually shocked. I can understand why he went back in the studio behind her back & secretly rerecorded his part. But doing it without her knowledge or input was very shady & sneaky of him.Also to do that to your very own blood sister!! But it was his project & album and he had all the say so. It was really out of poor Janets hands.In some parts of the song Janet's voice was so low she wasn't even audible . But even after doing all that backhanded stabbing in the back he did to her. Janet still outshined him in the video...

I'm still glad they did that duet together...Its a classic & she worked it at the MTv Video Awards in tribute to him. I was proud of her again. Janet doesn't have an evil bone her body. She would have never done that to him...Just like she didn't really slap MJ's daughter Paris lol. The tabloids couldn't wait to try to make up that story to finally try to catch Janet being mean. But it didn't work did it? She is still adored....

R.I.P. MJ it doesn't take away from your talent what i said. I still have the utmost respect for U & what U did to elevate the music Industry in your short life here on earth. U are missed very much & I feel for your diehard fans they really love & protect U still...

[Edited 2/20/13 9:46am]

It was known he liked janet's recorded part and re-sang his too with jimmy and terry. And janet even spoke about all of michael's takes sounding good for Scream and not believing how he redid his own again unsatisfied with his.

Plus it's well documented that janet, jimmy and terry are the ones who were responsible for the musical track and a lot of the lyrics at flyte tyme, and a lot of the vocals and layers have their flyte tyme stamp on it, so even if mj mixed the vocals, I find it a little hard to believe mj had the final say in that though it makes for an interesting way of seeing two different production teams coming together.

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

The reason Janet particpated in the "Scream" project was to show support for her brother, who was being shreaded apart in the tabloids. He needed her support & she delivered. Janet was arguably bigger than her brother @ the time. She was in top form during that period. Also in my opinion outshined him in the "Scream" video. She was so bad ass in it. I was so proud of her in that video. She was working it...lol

But like she said it was all business for MJ & he was not going to be outshined in vocals on that single...He made that very clear

you really, I mean really think that Janet could overshadow Michael vocally?
it's quite funny.

MJ sounds in the song as loud as ever. Janet is louder than usual on her albums.

In the U.S. - maybe!
But globally Janet was never bigger star than her brother, not even close.

[Edited 2/20/13 9:24am]

purple05 said:

I agree. I'm not trying to diminish Janet but when people say she was the bigger star, that's just not true. I remember an interview Sheryl Crow did and an interviewer asked her "how does it feel to be the bigger star"?? She said something like "no one is bigger than him, but I am having more success than him". During this time Janet was hot and had all the chart success. She even was signing major deals and doing movies. She was definitely more marketable though. I just don't like the comparison because to me it was just apart of the narrative to try to knock him down. Example: I never hear people bash Janet for going from about 20 mill with Janet. to about 9 mill with Velvet Rope. Then from that to All For You sales. When MJ sales declined you couldn't stop hearing about it. If you look at their album sales in the states during that time they are close for Janet to be in her prime and MJ past his. Even after all the praises and her being the 'so called' normal Jackson and being the media darling... They still bashed her and raked her over the coals in 2004. Her career hasn't been the same since. ------ Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis produced that track. Janet said it was mixed down but not that it stayed that way. If it was mixed down then she wouldn't be as loud as she is in the track. Janet singing voice isn't even loud on her tracks.

Yeah I agree with the first part for sure. From what I remember during Velvet Rope though, Janet was criticized a lot during this era cause sales were slow, had dropped and she got better praise and credit towards the end of the era and when she did MSG, all those duets, followed by Nutty II and All For You. Janet. was not at 20 million, that's a myth. They still said at the time of Velvet Rope that the janet. album was at 10 million and Velvet Rope at just 5-6 million though it eventually reached close to 10 million worldwide and janet. at 15 million. She was also criticized for her piercings and tattoos and a lot of people were starting to not care about her, even though she did well with Together Again and I thought it was one of her best and most underrated album and eras, but it came out at the wrong time. I really think 96/97 would have been a better time to release the album with how the musical climate changed over that time period, but we know she wasn't up for it.

[Edited 2/20/13 9:10am]

One of the best newer artists drops a new one that sounds like it came straight from the Dangerous sessions (merged with a bit of Prince....although, that's no different, ha!).

Jamie Lidell, ladies and gentleman, boys and girls....hippies and squares.

Get fonky.

Already checked him out, thanks....God, did Prince need a straight jacket or what for dissing his coat?

LiLi1992 said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

The reason Janet particpated in the "Scream" project was to show support for her brother, who was being shreaded apart in the tabloids. He needed her support & she delivered. Janet was arguably bigger than her brother @ the time. She was in top form during that period. Also in my opinion outshined him in the "Scream" video. She was so bad ass in it. I was so proud of her in that video. She was working it...lol

But like she said it was all business for MJ & he was not going to be outshined in vocals on that single...He made that very clear

you really, I mean really think that Janet could overshadow Michael vocally?

it's quite funny.

In the U.S. - maybe!
But globally Janet was never bigger star than her brother, not even close.

On that second verse of "Scream". Sorry to burst your bubble but Janet brought it vocally..Its the reason MJ sneakily redid his vocals to leave her in the dust.. So obviously if MJ felt threatened, The so called "King Of Pop" by it. She must of really made him nervous.

Of course! Globally Mj was bigger than everybody. But for a short period when Janet released her blockbuster album Rhythm Nation which had 7 top 5 hits. Janet was on top...

Yes, she was huge and at her popularity peak, but not on a grand worldwide scale like on michael's level which very few reach, though still very well known, and this is not necessarily a reflection of janet's work being better or worse. Everyone has their opinion on that. But I will say that janet influenced michael and some mj fans forget to give her credit for that, just as michael influenced her too.

What did you guys think of prince's ET segment? I didn't really care for it though I tried to. Don't hate me

[Edited 2/20/13 9:40am]

alphastreet said:

purple05 said:

I agree. I'm not trying to diminish Janet but when people say she was the bigger star, that's just not true. I remember an interview Sheryl Crow did and an interviewer asked her "how does it feel to be the bigger star"?? She said something like "no one is bigger than him, but I am having more success than him". During this time Janet was hot and had all the chart success. She even was signing major deals and doing movies. She was definitely more marketable though. I just don't like the comparison because to me it was just apart of the narrative to try to knock him down. Example: I never hear people bash Janet for going from about 20 mill with Janet. to about 9 mill with Velvet Rope. Then from that to All For You sales. When MJ sales declined you couldn't stop hearing about it. If you look at their album sales in the states during that time they are close for Janet to be in her prime and MJ past his. Even after all the praises and her being the 'so called' normal Jackson and being the media darling... They still bashed her and raked her over the coals in 2004. Her career hasn't been the same since. ------ Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis produced that track. Janet said it was mixed down but not that it stayed that way. If it was mixed down then she wouldn't be as loud as she is in the track. Janet singing voice isn't even loud on her tracks.

Yeah I agree with the first part for sure. From what I remember during Velvet Rope though, Janet was criticized a lot during this era cause sales were slow, had dropped and she got better praise and credit towards the end of the era and when she did MSG, all those duets, followed by Nutty II and All For You. Janet. was not at 20 million, that's a myth. They still said at the time of Velvet Rope that the janet. album was at 10 million and Velvet Rope at just 5-6 million though it eventually reached close to 10 million worldwide and janet. at 15 million. She was also criticized for her piercings and tattoos and a lot of people were starting to not care about her, even though she did well with Together Again and I thought it was one of her best and most underrated album and eras, but it came out at the wrong time. I really think 96/97 would have been a better time to release the album with how the musical climate changed over that time period, but we know she wasn't up for it.

[Edited 2/20/13 9:10am]

I just dont remember her being critized for sales.

As you do say, I remeber people were growing tired of her freaky/sex image and songs.

Im talking about worldwide sales. I always thought she was actually a litlle over 20 mill for that album.

Janet may not have the sales of Whitney, Madonna and Mariah but she killed on the charts. Billboard was her chart lol

To this very day I still watch the VELVET ROPE tour on dvd. It was badass. Didnt that have some of the highest raitings for hbo??

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

LiLi1992 said:

you really, I mean really think that Janet could overshadow Michael vocally?

it's quite funny.

In the U.S. - maybe!
But globally Janet was never bigger star than her brother, not even close.

On that second verse of "Scream". Sorry to burst your bubble but Janet brought it vocally..Its the reason MJ sneakily redid his vocals to leave her in the dust.. So obviously if MJ felt threatened, The so called "King Of Pop" by it. She must of really made him nervous.

Of course! Globally Mj was bigger than everybody. But for a short period when Janet released her blockbuster album Rhythm Nation which had 7 top 5 hits. Janet was on top...

Jimmy Jam told the story of how they were in the studio recording scream. He said that they were all blown away by MJs first take. He also said that Janet didnt want to follow him so she waited to record her vocals in MN.

After MJ heard Janet vocals he wanted to rerecord his but Jimmy didnt understand why. Also that most of what is on the final version is from MJs first vocal take.

I like that story. IT shows that they were both competitive with each other. They were not going to let the other outshine themselves.

purple05 said:

alphastreet said:

Yeah I agree with the first part for sure. From what I remember during Velvet Rope though, Janet was criticized a lot during this era cause sales were slow, had dropped and she got better praise and credit towards the end of the era and when she did MSG, all those duets, followed by Nutty II and All For You. Janet. was not at 20 million, that's a myth. They still said at the time of Velvet Rope that the janet. album was at 10 million and Velvet Rope at just 5-6 million though it eventually reached close to 10 million worldwide and janet. at 15 million. She was also criticized for her piercings and tattoos and a lot of people were starting to not care about her, even though she did well with Together Again and I thought it was one of her best and most underrated album and eras, but it came out at the wrong time. I really think 96/97 would have been a better time to release the album with how the musical climate changed over that time period, but we know she wasn't up for it.

[Edited 2/20/13 9:10am]

I just dont remember her being critized for sales.

As you do say, I remeber people were growing tired of her freaky/sex image and songs.

Im talking about worldwide sales. I always thought she was actually a litlle over 20 mill for that album.

Janet may not have the sales of Whitney, Madonna and Mariah but she killed on the charts. Billboard was her chart lol

To this very day I still watch the VELVET ROPE tour on dvd. It was badass. Didnt that have some of the highest raitings for hbo??

Velvet Rope was the first Janet concert I ever attended, I will never forget it! I also watched it over and over again after taping it and then wearing out the DVD and rebuying it when it was released with the All For You HBO DVD though I still kept the scratched one for the lovely cover and disc

Word Up magazine was putting her down quite a bit during Velvet Rope era, claiming that she was lip synching and stuff like that, but Black Beat gave her better press and had lots of janet pin ups. I also remember after she did her tour dates here, there was an article on her in the paper in the same week talking about her sales being lower than the last time but that she's picking up or something like that. I still have that article and wish I could scan it.

And yeah, Billboard Hot 100 and Japan was hers. She did well in Canada too in the 90's and early 00's

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

LiLi1992 said:

you really, I mean really think that Janet could overshadow Michael vocally?

it's quite funny.

In the U.S. - maybe!
But globally Janet was never bigger star than her brother, not even close.

On that second verse of "Scream". Sorry to burst your bubble but Janet brought it vocally..Its the reason MJ sneakily redid his vocals to leave her in the dust.. So obviously if MJ felt threatened, The so called "King Of Pop" by it. She must of really made him nervous.

Of course! Globally Mj was bigger than everybody. But for a short period when Janet released her blockbuster album Rhythm Nation which had 7 top 5 hits. Janet was on top...

MJ`s vocals technically superior to his sister in every aspect.
I heard that some fans of Janet thinks she is better dancer (lol), but you're actually the first person from whom I hear that she is better singer.

there is a group of artists who are more strong than Michael vocally .. Janet definitely not one of them.

Rhythm Nation is not even close to success of Bad or Dangerous. I do not want to upset you, but their overall success is simply incomparable.

alphastreet said:

What did you guys think of prince's ET segment? I didn't really care for it though I tried to. Don't hate me

[Edited 2/20/13 9:40am]

I thought it was nice, he did well. I was impressed by him doing the pushups lol!

LiLi1992 said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

On that second verse of "Scream". Sorry to burst your bubble but Janet brought it vocally..Its the reason MJ sneakily redid his vocals to leave her in the dust.. So obviously if MJ felt threatened, The so called "King Of Pop" by it. She must of really made him nervous.

Of course! Globally Mj was bigger than everybody. But for a short period when Janet released her blockbuster album Rhythm Nation which had 7 top 5 hits. Janet was on top...

MJ`s vocals technically superior to his sister in every aspect.
I heard that some fans of Janet thinks she is better dancer (lol), but you're actually the first person from whom I hear that she is better singer.

there is a group of artists who are more strong than Michael vocally .. Janet definitely not one of them.

Rhythm Nation is not even close to success of Bad or Dangerous. I do not want to upset you, but their overall success is simply incomparable.

RN was mainly a US phenomenon. One has to look at the Billboard positions she held for the album and singles to understand that she was a successful person though from what I remember, though it could be cause of where I live, MJ was the more popular artist, and that people who were not into pop music still knew Michael Jackson. Janet didn't have that, but her albums still rocked.

Dancing wise, both are good for different reasons and I don't even bother comparing the two anymore. And I think the comparisons are unfair too cause many leave out MJ from the 70's and how he danced then as well as in the 80's, 90's and onwards.

NaughtyKitty said:

alphastreet said:

What did you guys think of prince's ET segment? I didn't really care for it though I tried to. Don't hate me

[Edited 2/20/13 9:40am]

I thought it was nice, he did well. I was impressed by him doing the pushups lol!

Yeah I guess it's nice for him, but I don't really feel like I'm excited like I would have been if michael were alive. I think I'm just growing out of all of this now.

purple05 said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

On that second verse of "Scream". Sorry to burst your bubble but Janet brought it vocally..Its the reason MJ sneakily redid his vocals to leave her in the dust.. So obviously if MJ felt threatened, The so called "King Of Pop" by it. She must of really made him nervous.

Of course! Globally Mj was bigger than everybody. But for a short period when Janet released her blockbuster album Rhythm Nation which had 7 top 5 hits. Janet was on top...

Jimmy Jam told the story of how they were in the studio recording scream. He said that they were all blown away by MJs first take. He also said that Janet didnt want to follow him so she waited to record her vocals in MN.

After MJ heard Janet vocals he wanted to rerecord his but Jimmy didnt understand why. Also that most of what is on the final version is from MJs first vocal take.

I like that story. IT shows that they were both competitive with each other. They were not going to let the other outshine themselves.

I know this whole story. I don't remember them saying the part I outlined. But I liked the story also. They both shined on this project...

Actually now that you mention it, I think I do remember that last part. Janet or Jimmy was trying to talk about his perfectionism and competitive nature or something.

LiLi1992 said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

On that second verse of "Scream". Sorry to burst your bubble but Janet brought it vocally..Its the reason MJ sneakily redid his vocals to leave her in the dust.. So obviously if MJ felt threatened, The so called "King Of Pop" by it. She must of really made him nervous.

Of course! Globally Mj was bigger than everybody. But for a short period when Janet released her blockbuster album Rhythm Nation which had 7 top 5 hits. Janet was on top...

MJ`s vocals technically superior to his sister in every aspect.
I heard that some fans of Janet thinks she is better dancer (lol), but you're actually the first person from whom I hear that she is better singer.

there is a group of artists who are more strong than Michael vocally .. Janet definitely not one of them.

Rhythm Nation is not even close to success of Bad or Dangerous. I do not want to upset you, but their overall success is simply incomparable.

Did U read anything I said? I never said Janet was a better singer than MJ. I said on that particular verse she stepped it up with him.

I never said Rhythm Nation was close to Bad Or Dangerous either in sells or success. I just said for a short period during Janet's Rhythm Nation success. She outshined her brother. Mj didn't really have anything out during that period anyway. With that said I'm going to end this comparison. Its starting to get on my nerves. I don't like being misquoted. I'm going to leave U mJ fammies alone...

I think English is her second language and it was just a miscommunication...

O I C........

Yeah, I was raving over the RN tour the other day, she was so funky!

alphastreet said:

Yes I know. He was still a big name though going through all that crap.

[Edited 2/20/13 8:03am]

Of course he was a big name. Never did that change.

Even at his lowest, it was still always him everyone went to when they tried to make money or when they wanted ratings.

If people had left him the fuck alone and badgered others, then I could get those that try to downplay his popularity.

alphastreet said:

I think English is her second language and it was just a miscommunication...

not even the second, third maybe
but I understood perfectly what he meant.
I do not hear even this verse.
in Scream was a decent vocal performance for her, one of her best ever

Why Prince seeks the TV tabloid? he's so smart and serious boy, I thought he would be economic or political analyst .. his appearance is not suitable for that format, imho.
-------------------------------'

Michael Jackson Songs: The 20 Most Loved

We would like to emphasize that we understand that our top 20 may have been different had we looked at other nations' music charts, but this list is based on a point system racking up the number of weeks his singles topped the charts in the US, the UK, France, Spain and Australia only

20. Heal the World (1992)
19. The Girl Is Mine [ft. Paul McCartney] (1982)
18. One Day In Your Life (1981)
17. Dirty Diana (1988)
16. Thriller (1984)
15. The Way You Make Me Feel (1987)
14. Smooth Criminal (1988)
13. Man in the Mirror (1988)
12. Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough (1979)
11. I Just Can't Stop Loving You [ft. Siedah Garrett] (1987)
10. Blood on the Dance Floor (1997)
9. You Are Not Alone (1995)
8. Beat It (1983)
7. Ben (1972)
6. Rock With You (1979)
5. Earth Song (1995)
4. Bad (1987)
3. Say Say Say [ft. Paul McCartney] (1983)
2. Billie Jean (1983)
1. Black or White (1991)

http://www.contactmusic.com/in-depth/michael-jackson-songs-the-top-20-most-loved_3513246

[Edited 2/20/13 11:16am]

Well Michael wasn't even into politics, and Prince writing a Twitter post doesn't exactly make him qualified for United Nations....

purple05 said:

I agree. I'm not trying to diminish Janet but when people say she was the bigger star, that's just not true. I remember an interview Sheryl Crow did and an interviewer asked her "how does it feel to be the bigger star"?? She said something like "no one is bigger than him, but I am having more success than him". During this time Janet was hot and had all the chart success. She even was signing major deals and doing movies. She was definitely more marketable though. I just don't like the comparison because to me it was just apart of the narrative to try to knock him down. Example: I never hear people bash Janet for going from about 20 mill with Janet. to about 9 mill with Velvet Rope. Then from that to All For You sales. When MJ sales declined you couldn't stop hearing about it. If you look at their album sales in the states during that time they are close for Janet to be in her prime and MJ past his. Even after all the praises and her being the 'so called' normal Jackson and being the media darling... They still bashed her and raked her over the coals in 2004. Her career hasn't been the same since. ------ Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis produced that track. Janet said it was mixed down but not that it stayed that way. If it was mixed down then she wouldn't be as loud as she is in the track. Janet singing voice isn't even loud on her tracks.

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

LiLi1992 said:

MJ`s vocals technically superior to his sister in every aspect.
I heard that some fans of Janet thinks she is better dancer (lol), but you're actually the first person from whom I hear that she is better singer.

there is a group of artists who are more strong than Michael vocally .. Janet definitely not one of them.

Rhythm Nation is not even close to success of Bad or Dangerous. I do not want to upset you, but their overall success is simply incomparable.

Did U read anything I said? I never said Janet was a better singer than MJ. I said on that particular verse she stepped it up with him.

I never said Rhythm Nation was close to Bad Or Dangerous either in sells or success. I just said for a short period during Janet's Rhythm Nation success. She outshined her brother. Mj didn't really have anything out during that period anyway. With that said I'm going to end this comparison. Its starting to get on my nerves. I don't like being misquoted. I'm going to leave U mJ fammies alone...

yea please take your Prince stanning ass out of here. As soon as you stated Janet did not have an evil bone in her body I immediately stopped reading as well as when you delusionally insisted that she was more popular than MJ. Since your such a big Janet stan, maybe I should jog your memory on how Janet backstabbed Tina Landon when they were suppose to be bestfriends and how she threw her brother under the bus. She also relied heavily on MJ paying the bills for the family and she didnt itch a finger for her mother and father.

Cinny said:

Clive Davis Confirms: Michael Jackson Plotted to End Brother Jermaine’s Career

02/19/13 12:02am

In his wonderfully juicy new book, “Soundtrack of My Life,” Clive Davis — “the Man with the 45 RPM Ears” –confirms what has always been out there: Michael Jackson purposely tried to kill off brother Jermaine’s career. In the mid 80s, Davis signed Jermaine Jackson and had a couple of hits that still stand up: “Do What You Do” and “Tell Me I’m Not Dreaming.” Michael didn’t like this.

When Clive hired Kenny “Babyface” Edmonds and LA Reid in the late 1980s to produce Jermaine’s fourth album at Arista Records, Michael had enough, Davis says. The King of Pop tied up Babyface for his own projects, ripping him away from Jermaine. Clive writes: “Jermaine couldn’t believe that Michael, his close brother, would hijack his producers’ material this way.”At a dinner in Paris, Clive recalls, Jermaine was “crying, indeed sobbing at times, so deeply hurt that his brother would do this to him.”

The older brother was so angry that he wrote his infamous song, “Word to the Badd,” which denounced Michael as shallow and selfish. Michael responded by calling Davis and demanding he take the song off of Jermaine’s new album.

Davis was between a rock and a hard place, as they say. Jermaine leaked the track so the world could hear his bitterness. Clive “I felt it would be wrong for me to tell an artist to take a song off an album. This was a family and personal matter that they would need to resolve themselves.”

Eventually a watered down version of the song was officially released. Davis’s story lines up with the one told by Michael’s longtime pr man, the late Bob Jones, in his book with Stacy Brown.

I’m sorry: this is the petty side of Michael Jackson that his fans don’t like to hear about. But now we have the same story from two people who never knew each other–Bob Jones, and Clive Davis. Bob Jones wrote that Michael systematically destroyed the careers of Rebbe and Jermaine, and even LaToya, but wasn’t fast enough to stop Janet.

-Roger Friedman

Kelly Clarkson already called this snake out on his lies. I dont believe this fabricated story. Michael and Jermaine both had tension/disagreements during this time and its a story on both ends. I dont believe MJ sabotaged Jermaines career and I actually believe alot of Jermaines downfalls have been because of his OWN decisions and choices. Maybe that is how JERMAINE TOOK IT.

Clives accussations dont even sense. How is MJ going to tie Babyface up with his own projects when he was working non stop with Quincy and other engineers?

Michael is NOT perfect but I think is bullshit and its sad people just believe any damn thing they see and hear...dumbasses