alphastreet said:

mjscarousal said:

Despite winning alot of awards etc, I think currently it doesnt get that much attention because it was a political album. Most political albums never get credit... so the more popular songs/dance songs like Madonna, Mariah and so forth get more attention. Michaels History doesnt get NOTHING but it was the pinapple of his artisitic creative efforts and once again it was a political album. Most political albums dont get the rightful attention it deserves. I think the ONLY one is Marvin Gaye's, "Whats Going On"

I think maybe males were taken more seriously than females. We Are The World, Man In the Mirror, Black or White were all taken seriously for years before and after death, but also hits from artists like Phil Collins, u2, Bruce Springsteen and themes coming up in hip hop music emerging at the time of 1814 were taken more seriously, Janet was a part of that movement. I agree she did break records though, but in the end, mc hammer, vanilla ice and madonna went diamond with their albums that year, she never did.

Just as I embraced We Are The World, Man In the Mirror, and all of Michael's songs centering on the universal message....

I embraced RHYTHM NATION 1814 for exactly what it was

one of the greatest musical efforts ever witnessed, by anyone, regardless of gender

RHYTHM NATION is the equivalent of what Marvin Gaye expressed in the 70s with his words of introspection and Bob Dylan crafted in the 60s w/his songs of protest

she brought he juggernaut w/that album and I'm sure w/out any doubts that album sold way more than both MC HAMMER and VANILLA ICE and anything Madonna released after her album TRUE BLUE which was released 2 years before 1814 was....

that album sustain consistent chart present from 1989 to the beginning of 1991

this album cranked out not one, not two but SEVEN top 10 singles, that means your album is blowing the hinges off contemporary thought

that album sold over 20 million worldwide easily, rather history wants to deny that

as far as MC HAMMER and VANILLA ICE go, both relied on multi-sampling to reach superstardom

HAMMER sampled Rick James song SuperFreak, which was originally released in 1981...Rick James sued Hammer for copyright infringement and was the first artist ever who received royalties for another artist sampling his/her music......then Hammer sampled Prince, The Jackson Five, The Chi-Lites for his album PLEASE HAMMER DON'T HURT EM

VANILLA ICE sampled the entire riff from QUEEN'S/FREDDIE MERCURY's classic Under Pressure (another song that came out in 1981) for his song ICE, ICE, BABY and said he didn't when he knew he did. He sampled David Bowie too......he settled out of court so he wouldn't be sued for infringement and plagiarism

w/in 2 years, ICE's career was on the brink....then after HAMMER went gangsta, his career went flux

but JANET was still riding the wave of a world of momentum she had built for herself over time..

for me, Janet was at the forefront of socially conscious music that inspired others to respond in likeness

that album was so thorough, her brother Michael Jackson was dancing to her music while he was conducting dance rehearsals

http://www.youtube.com/wa..._1mzkh5ARo

and Janet's "State of The World" motivated Michael to write "Heal The World"

what I'm saying is, she was more influential then what she's getting credit for

perfect example

in 1990, she released the video for her song LOVE WILL NEVER DO....a video filmed in black and white featuring a popular african model, where it takes place in a desert

http://www.youtube.com/wa...lvQBF_9lZc

fast forward 3 years later in 1993

Michael Jackson releases the video for his song IN THE CLOSET, filmed in slight tinge and black in white, featuring a popular african model, where it takes place in a desert

http://www.youtube.com/wa...qLY0vbrT8Q

and it's no coincidence Michael called on her own producers Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis to work on his follow up to DANGEROUS because he knew just how prolific his sister had become as he had her collaborate on his debut single for HISTORY which was SCREAM

see, by that point, where years before Janet was inspired by her brother (rightfully so), Michael was being inspired by Janet

and that's the truth

[Edited 9/21/12 22:47pm]

Scorp said:

alphastreet said:

I think maybe males were taken more seriously than females. We Are The World, Man In the Mirror, Black or White were all taken seriously for years before and after death, but also hits from artists like Phil Collins, u2, Bruce Springsteen and themes coming up in hip hop music emerging at the time of 1814 were taken more seriously, Janet was a part of that movement. I agree she did break records though, but in the end, mc hammer, vanilla ice and madonna went diamond with their albums that year, she never did.

Just as I embraced We Are The World, Man In the Mirror, and all of Michael's songs centering on the universal message....

I embraced RHYTHM NATION 1814 for exactly what it was

one of the greatest musical efforts ever witnessed, by anyone, regardless of gender

RHYTHM NATION is the equivalent of what Marvin Gaye expressed in the 70s with his words of introspection and Bob Dylan crafted in the 60s w/his songs of protest

she brought he juggernaut w/that album and I'm sure w/out any doubts that album sold way more than both MC HAMMER and VANILLA ICE and anything Madonna released after her album TRUE BLUE which was released 2 years before 1814 was....

that album sustain consistent chart present from 1989 to the beginning of 1991

this album cranked out not one, not two but SEVEN top 10 singles, that means your album is blowing the hinges off contemporary thought

that album sold over 20 million worldwide easily, rather history wants to deny that

as far as MC HAMMER and VANILLA ICE go, both relied on multi-sampling to reach superstardom

HAMMER sampled Rick James song SuperFreak, which was originally released in 1981...Rick James sued Hammer for copyright infringement and was the first artist ever who received royalties for another artist sampling his/her music......then Hammer sampled Prince, The Jackson Five, The Chi-Lites for his album PLEASE HAMMER DON'T HURT EM

VANILLA ICE sampled the entire riff from QUEEN'S/FREDDIE MERCURY's classic Under Pressure (another song that came out in 1981) for his song ICE, ICE, BABY and said he didn't when he knew he did. He sampled David Bowie too......he settled out of court so he wouldn't be sued for infringement and plagiarism

w/in 2 years, ICE's career was on the brink....then after HAMMER went gangsta, his career went flux

but JANET was still riding the wave of a world of momentum she had built for herself over time..

for me, Janet was at the forefront of socially conscious music that inspired others to respond in likeness

that album was so thorough, her brother Michael Jackson was dancing to her music while he was conducting dance rehearsals

http://www.youtube.com/wa..._1mzkh5ARo

and Janet's "State of The World" motivated Michael to write "Heal The World"

what I'm saying is, she was more influential then what she's getting credit for

perfect example

in 1990, she released the video for her song LOVE WILL NEVER DO....a video filmed in black and white featuring a popular african model, where it takes place in a desert

http://www.youtube.com/wa...lvQBF_9lZc

fast forward 3 years later in 1993

Michael Jackson releases the video for his song IN THE CLOSET, filmed in slight tinge and black in white, featuring a popular african model, where it takes place in a desert

http://www.youtube.com/wa...qLY0vbrT8Q

and it's no coincidence Michael called on her own producers Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis to work on his follow up to DANGEROUS because he knew just how prolific his sister had become as he had her collaborate on his debut single for HISTORY which was SCREAM

see, by that point, where years before Janet was inspired by her brother (rightfully so), Michael was being inspired by Janet

and that's the truth

[Edited 9/21/12 22:47pm]

Thats YOUR opinion and I am not even going to bother to argue with you on the MJ bit. My opinion is he wanted Jimmy and Terry because he wanted more of a current/ New Jack swing sound album but he primarily worked with Teddy for majority of Dangerous.

and although RN is my favorite Janet album ranking it on the same level as Marvin Gayes Whats Going On is an exaggeration. That album was perfection and the man wrote all the songs/composed etc........... Janets RN album had some filler although it was still a good album and she didnt write all the songs by herself except for one and she didnt compose any of it. It doesnt hold the same impact or influence to even be compared to that album.

[Edited 9/21/12 23:26pm]

mjscarousal said:

Scorp said:

Just as I embraced We Are The World, Man In the Mirror, and all of Michael's songs centering on the universal message....

I embraced RHYTHM NATION 1814 for exactly what it was

one of the greatest musical efforts ever witnessed, by anyone, regardless of gender

RHYTHM NATION is the equivalent of what Marvin Gaye expressed in the 70s with his words of introspection and Bob Dylan crafted in the 60s w/his songs of protest

she brought he juggernaut w/that album and I'm sure w/out any doubts that album sold way more than both MC HAMMER and VANILLA ICE and anything Madonna released after her album TRUE BLUE which was released 2 years before 1814 was....

that album sustain consistent chart present from 1989 to the beginning of 1991

this album cranked out not one, not two but SEVEN top 10 singles, that means your album is blowing the hinges off contemporary thought

that album sold over 20 million worldwide easily, rather history wants to deny that

as far as MC HAMMER and VANILLA ICE go, both relied on multi-sampling to reach superstardom

HAMMER sampled Rick James song SuperFreak, which was originally released in 1981...Rick James sued Hammer for copyright infringement and was the first artist ever who received royalties for another artist sampling his/her music......then Hammer sampled Prince, The Jackson Five, The Chi-Lites for his album PLEASE HAMMER DON'T HURT EM

VANILLA ICE sampled the entire riff from QUEEN'S/FREDDIE MERCURY's classic Under Pressure (another song that came out in 1981) for his song ICE, ICE, BABY and said he didn't when he knew he did. He sampled David Bowie too......he settled out of court so he wouldn't be sued for infringement and plagiarism

w/in 2 years, ICE's career was on the brink....then after HAMMER went gangsta, his career went flux

but JANET was still riding the wave of a world of momentum she had built for herself over time..

for me, Janet was at the forefront of socially conscious music that inspired others to respond in likeness

that album was so thorough, her brother Michael Jackson was dancing to her music while he was conducting dance rehearsals

http://www.youtube.com/wa..._1mzkh5ARo

and Janet's "State of The World" motivated Michael to write "Heal The World"

what I'm saying is, she was more influential then what she's getting credit for

perfect example

in 1990, she released the video for her song LOVE WILL NEVER DO....a video filmed in black and white featuring a popular african model, where it takes place in a desert

http://www.youtube.com/wa...lvQBF_9lZc

fast forward 3 years later in 1993

Michael Jackson releases the video for his song IN THE CLOSET, filmed in slight tinge and black in white, featuring a popular african model, where it takes place in a desert

http://www.youtube.com/wa...qLY0vbrT8Q

and it's no coincidence Michael called on her own producers Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis to work on his follow up to DANGEROUS because he knew just how prolific his sister had become as he had her collaborate on his debut single for HISTORY which was SCREAM

see, by that point, where years before Janet was inspired by her brother (rightfully so), Michael was being inspired by Janet

and that's the truth

[Edited 9/21/12 22:47pm]

Thats YOUR opinion and I am not even going to bother to argue with you on the MJ bit. My opinion is he wanted Jimmy and Terry because he wanted more of a current/ New Jack swing sound album but he primarily worked with Teddy for majority of Dangerous.

and although RN is my favorite Janet album ranking it on the same level as Marvin Gayes Whats Going On is an exaggeration. That album was perfection and the man wrote all the songs/composed etc........... Janets RN album had some filler although it was still a good album and she didnt write all the songs by herself except for one and she didnt compose any of it. It doesnt hold the same impact or influence to even be compared to that album.

[Edited 9/21/12 23:26pm]

I don't think it's a what's going on, but the transition from what's going on to let's get it on is a comparison that's come up several times in writing.

michael and janet were always influencing each other, I see he was inspired by her to during Dangerous by the RN era, but he was not unoriginal and IMO Dangerous still sounds way more timeless, RN sounds like an 80's album....and RN did did rely on a sample too, go figure, the other examples are no exceptions, and just look at the numbers, they have been certified diamond, Madonna being close to 15 million with immaculate collection. Janet sits at 6 million, not discrediting her, but please know what you're talking about if you're going to sit there and make points about Janet being more commercially successful than the others. I agree she was influential in that period though she was inspired by people before her too that time like Prince, Jody Watley, Michael, Tracy Chapman, Marvin Gaye and so on.

mjscarousal said:

Scorp said:

Just as I embraced We Are The World, Man In the Mirror, and all of Michael's songs centering on the universal message....

I embraced RHYTHM NATION 1814 for exactly what it was

one of the greatest musical efforts ever witnessed, by anyone, regardless of gender

RHYTHM NATION is the equivalent of what Marvin Gaye expressed in the 70s with his words of introspection and Bob Dylan crafted in the 60s w/his songs of protest

she brought he juggernaut w/that album and I'm sure w/out any doubts that album sold way more than both MC HAMMER and VANILLA ICE and anything Madonna released after her album TRUE BLUE which was released 2 years before 1814 was....

that album sustain consistent chart present from 1989 to the beginning of 1991

this album cranked out not one, not two but SEVEN top 10 singles, that means your album is blowing the hinges off contemporary thought

that album sold over 20 million worldwide easily, rather history wants to deny that

as far as MC HAMMER and VANILLA ICE go, both relied on multi-sampling to reach superstardom

HAMMER sampled Rick James song SuperFreak, which was originally released in 1981...Rick James sued Hammer for copyright infringement and was the first artist ever who received royalties for another artist sampling his/her music......then Hammer sampled Prince, The Jackson Five, The Chi-Lites for his album PLEASE HAMMER DON'T HURT EM

VANILLA ICE sampled the entire riff from QUEEN'S/FREDDIE MERCURY's classic Under Pressure (another song that came out in 1981) for his song ICE, ICE, BABY and said he didn't when he knew he did. He sampled David Bowie too......he settled out of court so he wouldn't be sued for infringement and plagiarism

w/in 2 years, ICE's career was on the brink....then after HAMMER went gangsta, his career went flux

but JANET was still riding the wave of a world of momentum she had built for herself over time..

for me, Janet was at the forefront of socially conscious music that inspired others to respond in likeness

that album was so thorough, her brother Michael Jackson was dancing to her music while he was conducting dance rehearsals

http://www.youtube.com/wa..._1mzkh5ARo

and Janet's "State of The World" motivated Michael to write "Heal The World"

what I'm saying is, she was more influential then what she's getting credit for

perfect example

in 1990, she released the video for her song LOVE WILL NEVER DO....a video filmed in black and white featuring a popular african model, where it takes place in a desert

http://www.youtube.com/wa...lvQBF_9lZc

fast forward 3 years later in 1993

Michael Jackson releases the video for his song IN THE CLOSET, filmed in slight tinge and black in white, featuring a popular african model, where it takes place in a desert

http://www.youtube.com/wa...qLY0vbrT8Q

and it's no coincidence Michael called on her own producers Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis to work on his follow up to DANGEROUS because he knew just how prolific his sister had become as he had her collaborate on his debut single for HISTORY which was SCREAM

see, by that point, where years before Janet was inspired by her brother (rightfully so), Michael was being inspired by Janet

and that's the truth

[Edited 9/21/12 22:47pm]

Thats YOUR opinion and I am not even going to bother to argue with you on the MJ bit. My opinion is he wanted Jimmy and Terry because he wanted more of a current/ New Jack swing sound album but he primarily worked with Teddy for majority of Dangerous.

and although RN is my favorite Janet album ranking it on the same level as Marvin Gayes Whats Going On is an exaggeration. That album was perfection and the man wrote all the songs/composed etc........... Janets RN album had some filler although it was still a good album and she didnt write all the songs by herself except for one and she didnt compose any of it. It doesnt hold the same impact or influence to even be compared to that album.

[Edited 9/21/12 23:26pm]

It is what it is....

Reminds me of when Michael Jordan returned back to the NBA in 1995, and even though he announced his first retirement in 93 as the pre-eminent basketball player on the planet, when he returned back to the league, he told the basketball public he was no longer the captain of his team, it was the person who earned that distinction during the years he was retired: Scottie Pippen

and when he prepared for his first full season back, he still said that Scottie was the captain of the team and the best all around player for the Chicago Bulls, and only when Michael returned back to true form did he regain his status as the best player in the league

he understood giving respect where respect was due........

if Michael wanted to work w/someone to fuse new jack swing element for his album HISTORY, why not work w/the very person who created the style of music in Teddy Riley, the very person who produced DANGEROUS

Teddy was viewed as more of the current producer on the scene than anyone during those years he worked w/Michael

Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis WERE NOT new jack swing producers

the reason Mike moved beyond Teddy was the same reason he moved beyond Quincy Jones, because of him being disappointment with the sales of BAD and DANGEROUS....

by that point, during initial run.....the JANET album of 1993 sold more (especially in the united states) than DANGEROUS did, especially during the years of 1991 through 1992

that's the reason why he called on Jam and Lewis and his sister to perform and produce his debut song SCREAM...it had obvious written all over it......

as far as Janet not writing all of her songs.....neither did Michael Jackson or any other great artist coming down the pike

MAN IN THE MIRROR was written by Siedah Garrett, a #1 record

even a number of his signature songs on THRILLER were written by other people

P.Y.T....James Ingram

HUMAN NATURE...Steve Poccaro

LADY IN MY LIFE and THRILLER.....Rod Temperton

but it doesn't diminish how he blew those songs out the water w/his performance

but out of the 7 top ten singles RHYTHM NATION earned, she wrote 5 of them

and 1814 received the same level of critical acclaim than Marvin Gaye's What's Going On did......and Janet earned the distinction of performing the most successful debut concert tour ever

best selling album of 1990..an album that was acknowledged by luminaries representing all walks of life...her music was being played more than anyone....anyone....

the album called for the equality of women.....that was one of the first statements she uttered upon the time of the release

her 7 top ten singles reached the top 5, first time ever

Lauryn Hill's epic album THE MISEDUCATION was held in the same esteem as SONGS IN THE KEY OF LIFE by Stevie Wonder and I agree, her album was created in the same vein

it's a shame there has to be an argument about this....

because there wasn't any arguments taking place when this period of time actually went down.....

alphastreet said:

mjscarousal said:

Thats YOUR opinion and I am not even going to bother to argue with you on the MJ bit. My opinion is he wanted Jimmy and Terry because he wanted more of a current/ New Jack swing sound album but he primarily worked with Teddy for majority of Dangerous.

and although RN is my favorite Janet album ranking it on the same level as Marvin Gayes Whats Going On is an exaggeration. That album was perfection and the man wrote all the songs/composed etc........... Janets RN album had some filler although it was still a good album and she didnt write all the songs by herself except for one and she didnt compose any of it. It doesnt hold the same impact or influence to even be compared to that album.

[Edited 9/21/12 23:26pm]

I don't think it's a what's going on, but the transition from what's going on to let's get it on is a comparison that's come up several times in writing.

michael and janet were always influencing each other, I see he was inspired by her to during Dangerous by the RN era, but he was not unoriginal and IMO Dangerous still sounds way more timeless, RN sounds like an 80's album....and RN did did rely on a sample too, go figure, the other examples are no exceptions, and just look at the numbers, they have been certified diamond, Madonna being close to 15 million with immaculate collection. Janet sits at 6 million, not discrediting her, but please know what you're talking about if you're going to sit there and make points about Janet being more commercially successful than the others. I agree she was influential in that period though she was inspired by people before her too that time like Prince, Jody Watley, Michael, Tracy Chapman, Marvin Gaye and so on.

Madonna's IMMACULATE COLLECTION was a greatest hits album

and her following efforts EROTICA and BEDTIME STORIES sold nowhere near what Janet was accomplishing in the early to mid 90s.........more and more people got turned off by all the sex stuff

EROTICA sold 5-6 million worldwide compared to 1814's 20-22 million

BEDTIME STORIES sold about 5-6 million w/JANET selling 22-25 million

so who was actually who?.....

The last truly great album Madonna ever did was TRUE BLUE in 1987...that was the bomb, RAY OF LIGHT of 1998 was solid and her performance of Evita I enjoyed.....

every great artist is influenced by someone who comes before them

but when it came to the defining moment for Janet Jackson, right after releasing the breakthrough album CONTROL, she unleashed the greatest album in the past 23 years by any female artist and one of the greatest albums ever.....

from 1989-the beginning of 1991, she led all of the contemporaries, and 1814 stood as the best album on the planet......

People don't want to give Janet her credit because they feel it takes away from Michael in some way......I've never seen anything like it

that's not how I viewed this when this stuff mean something....I never compared one against the other.......I enjoyed both of them

name me a video any female artist in 23 years that was better than this one

http://www.youtube.com/wa...geAUejUZhg

[Edited 9/22/12 0:53am]

These MJ fans ruining every thread...

This is a Janet thread, not an MJ thread.

Take your boring talk about records and sales away. We are talking about good music, not mainstream garbage which follows the same forumale for every song.

[Edited 9/23/12 13:16pm]

alphastreet said:

mjscarousal said:

Thats YOUR opinion and I am not even going to bother to argue with you on the MJ bit. My opinion is he wanted Jimmy and Terry because he wanted more of a current/ New Jack swing sound album but he primarily worked with Teddy for majority of Dangerous.

and although RN is my favorite Janet album ranking it on the same level as Marvin Gayes Whats Going On is an exaggeration. That album was perfection and the man wrote all the songs/composed etc........... Janets RN album had some filler although it was still a good album and she didnt write all the songs by herself except for one and she didnt compose any of it. It doesnt hold the same impact or influence to even be compared to that album.

[Edited 9/21/12 23:26pm]

I don't think it's a what's going on, but the transition from what's going on to let's get it on is a comparison that's come up several times in writing.

michael and janet were always influencing each other, I see he was inspired by her to during Dangerous by the RN era, but he was not unoriginal and IMO Dangerous still sounds way more timeless, RN sounds like an 80's album....and RN did did rely on a sample too, go figure, the other examples are no exceptions, and just look at the numbers, they have been certified diamond, Madonna being close to 15 million with immaculate collection. Janet sits at 6 million, not discrediting her, but please know what you're talking about if you're going to sit there and make points about Janet being more commercially successful than the others. I agree she was influential in that period though she was inspired by people before her too that time like Prince, Jody Watley, Michael, Tracy Chapman, Marvin Gaye and so on.

Nope.... RN is a GREAT album one of the best from a pop star but it is not on the same level of impact and creativity.

I can agree with that to an extent but Michael had his own influences and alot of what Janet was doing Michael had already done. I do not think it was to the degree that fans try to make it.

I didnt say Janet was more commercially successful in comparision to Madonna.

I said she received alot of commercial success from Rhythm Nation.... and she did.

Despite her record sales, she received alot of awards and recognition because of that album. Even Jimmy and Terry got recognition for the way they did the production on the album. She even was considered to be more of a international star and my only arguement was CURRENTLY RN does not receive the same impact as Madonnas Immaculate because its a political album.

I dont think it has to do with males being more received than women and Marvin Gaye technically was not a pop star he was a R&b soul singer.

Rhythm Nation is better than all of Bad and the second half of Dangerous.

duccichucka said:

Rhythm Nation is better than all of Bad and the second half of Dangerous.

and THERE you have it.....that's really what this is all about

and why there's so much resistance by so many to acknowledge how magnificent RHYTHM NATION really was.....

and that was the word expressed by the community and by credible music critics used to summize throught 1814's run

Michael Jackson crafted the quintessential r&b/soul album ever in OFF THE WALL, which he said himself was his best and favorite album to hav worked on

he reprsented the greatest selling album ever in THRILLER and unleashed the best video of all time

but that RHYTHM NATION was better than BAD and that's why there's such a great attempt to shun it

she took it all the way back to 1814 when Francis Scott Key wrote the Star Spangled Banner...

1814 was music's anthem for 2 years running....even captivating her brother Michael......

oh, I just found this out

she released 1814, the exact same week Scott Key wrote the Star Spangled Banner 175 years after the fact.......

that's deep

[Edited 9/22/12 10:19am]

Sorry, but Rhythm Nation has absolutely no filler. None. Not one song is filler on that album, which is why more than half of its songs became singles and all of those singles became Top 5 Hot 100 hits. That's not fan talk, it's just truth.

I do think that, to some extent, Michael was coming from a "Whoa, hold up. Janet is doing some big things..." stance, and thus sought out some of the producers/music video directors she was working with (Herb Ritts,/Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis/Heavy D.) And, before anyone gets all "you're attacking MJ" on me, no, I'm not. Even he was in awe of how great Janet's "The Knowledge" from RN is, and he used to rehearse his dancing techniques to it. I'd even go so far as to say that his window-smashing scene at the end of "Black or White" was a replica of Janet's "The Knowledge" segment from her RN mini-movie. He even had some soundbytes from a couple of her songs included in his 1995 MTV Music Awards performance.

As for never hearing RN's singles on the radio, well, it's actually just the opposite. I hear those songs all the time, particularly on '80s, '90s and today stations and on R&B stations during their quiet storm programming. The singles from RN are always being sampled and remade as well.

SEANMAN said:

Sorry, but Rhythm Nation has absolutely no filler. None. Not one song is filler on that album, which is why more than half of its songs became singles and all of those singles became Top 5 Hot 100 hits. That's not fan talk, it's just truth.

I do think that, to some extent, Michael was coming from a "Whoa, hold up. Janet is doing some big things..." stance, and thus sought out some of the producers/music video directors she was working with (Herb Ritts,/Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis/Heavy D.) And, before anyone gets all "you're attacking MJ" on me, no, I'm not. Even he was in awe of how great Janet's "The Knowledge" from RN is, and he used to rehearse his dancing techniques to it. I'd even go so far as to say that his window-smashing scene at the end of "Black or White" was a replica of Janet's "The Knowledge" segment from her RN mini-movie. He even had some soundbytes from a couple of her songs included in his 1995 MTV Music Awards performance.

As for never hearing RN's singles on the radio, well, it's actually just the opposite. I hear those songs all the time, particularly on '80s, '90s and today stations and on R&B stations during their quiet storm programming. The singles from RN are always being sampled and remade as well.

Truth don't lie.......

what was the famous lyric Michael coined back in the day.....

"be careful what you do for the lie becomes the truth"............

the album didn't carry fillers, it featured "interludes".....

and Janet was the best female artist on the planet w/producing slow jams/love songs

"Someday is tonight" and "Come Back To Me" and "Lonely" were being played constantly on the Quiet Storm format you mentioned.....

it's not about attacking as you mentioned...it's about giving credit where credit is do

Michael Jackson was touched by what his sister created, the entire experience

I love Mike, what happened to him was that he was led astray and I still get angry about it because very few people are willing to call it out for what it is

"Black Cat" by Janet turned into "Black and White" for Michael when it came to the promotion of that single........Michael used an actual black panther in that video, and there's no doubt he came up w/that concept because of Janet's song

that album was one of the greatest ever....the title alone captivates

we can take it another notch

HEAL THE WORLD.......great song....love it....the superbowl performance of that song moved my heart in a many way

Michael Jackson's EARTH SONG....amazing record, the video was strong, should have been released here in the states...featuring Andrae Crouch Choir singing in the background

if he had released that in 1985 rather than 1995, it would have went #1

one of his best ever..one that I listened to all the time....love the "crescendo" towards the end when he breaks down w/the plea

but did his fans ever notice the beginning of the song, the intro featuring the piano play

http://www.youtube.com/wa...Ai3VTSdTxU

the piano play carries a tone of melancholy, the theme of the song calls out for the world to look after itself and how it's "dying"..and the way each verse gives way to the chorus........

sounds eeeeeerily similar too............................

http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related

Michael was heavily influenced by his sister Janet and if that's the case, then that means the world was too......

as Michael adapted to the full scale pop mode, he was drawn away from his center, and therefore, he had to draw inspiration from other artists who crafted authenticity to build his music, to sustain his vision

but his fans didn't realize it during those years of BAD, DANGEROUS, HISTORY

well, they are finding out now.......

Michael's HISTORY TOUR, where he started performing EARTH SONG where at the end, he brings out the cannons, and we hear sound affects of gun shots and children running in distress

If Janet's influence wasn't legit, MJ fans, listen to the end of LIVING IN A WORLD THEY DIDN'T MAKE......

[Edited 9/22/12 14:07pm]

people of the world, no one is discrediting janet's successes, I just have a problem with wrong numbers being thrown out there to put MJ down

The janet. album sold 15 million to 20 million max worldwide, not 25 million, that's rubbish and a mixup with Mariah's Music Box of the same time. Go look at the last list of top 100 selling albums. Dangerous sold 31 million as of 2000 and is higher now, maybe 35 million

Janet sold slightly more than Michael in the Dangerous era(in the US), but michael shipped more so he must have surpassed it now though they could be about the same, it's very possible and would be great since they both did fabulous in the early 90's commercially.

I also agree RN is a perfect album without a bad track on it, I feel like that about the Bad album as well, both are my favourite from each

As for madonna, sure immaculate was a greatest hits, but Vogue was a phenomenon and her tour , cone bras and all, was one of the biggest talks of 1990, and solidifed her legendary status some more. Her sales did drop for sometime, but Ray of Light had one of the biggest comebacks and she has outsold janet since, and produced some of her best work in the 00's, something janet stopped doing for a little while but came around with again on Discipline, though that's my personal preference.

[Edited 9/22/12 14:19pm]

Janet hasn't even had her most successful albums re-certified, the way your Mariahs, Madonnas etc have. RN and the janet. album alone have likely shifted in excess of 10 million units apiece in the States, but, again, she's never had them re-certified. In the end, I really don't think numerical stats are all that important to Janet, because if they were, she would have already had her HUGE albums re-certified. I've said all that to say that it's a pop artist's mark and influence on the next generation of pop stars that really matters in the end, and, when you look at the younger crop of pop stars of today, I think Janet is pretty safe in that department.

On a different topic, yesterday was the 30th anniversary of the release of the one that started it all...

SEANMAN said:

Janet hasn't even had her most successful albums re-certified, the way your Mariahs, Madonnas etc have. RN and the janet. album alone have likely shifted in excess of 10 million units apiece in the States, but, again, she's never had them re-certified. In the end, I really don't think numerical stats are all that important to Janet, because if they were, she would have already had her HUGE albums re-certified. I've said all that to say that it's a pop artist's mark and influence on the next generation of pop stars that really matters in the end, and, when you look at the younger crop of pop stars of today, I think Janet is pretty safe in that department.

On a different topic, yesterday was the 30th anniversary of the release of the one that started it all...

I love this picture man, in my home town, about 10 minutes from where I live now....

there stood this building on the sidewalk at this intersection where a stop sign is

on the side of this builiding, someone painted a huuuuge mural of this picture, it had to be 15 feet tall and wide.....

I use to drive down that city street all the time to cap a look at the mural, to put a smile on my face

that mural stood for over 20 years before it was painted over

I used to be like wooowww, Janet is right there lollllllllll

Scorp said:

SEANMAN said:

Janet hasn't even had her most successful albums re-certified, the way your Mariahs, Madonnas etc have. RN and the janet. album alone have likely shifted in excess of 10 million units apiece in the States, but, again, she's never had them re-certified. In the end, I really don't think numerical stats are all that important to Janet, because if they were, she would have already had her HUGE albums re-certified. I've said all that to say that it's a pop artist's mark and influence on the next generation of pop stars that really matters in the end, and, when you look at the younger crop of pop stars of today, I think Janet is pretty safe in that department.

On a different topic, yesterday was the 30th anniversary of the release of the one that started it all...

I love this picture man, in my home town, about 10 minutes from where I live now....

there stood this building on the sidewalk at this intersection where a stop sign is

on the side of this builiding, someone painted a huuuuge mural of this picture, it had to be 15 feet tall and wide.....

I use to drive down that city street all the time to cap a look at the mural, to put a smile on my face

that mural stood for over 20 years before it was painted over

I used to be like wooowww, Janet is right there lollllllllll

Very cool.

Don't think I've ever heard a single song from this album.

I myself am curious about the number and think diamond albums would be good for her, and I want a new album....before britney ties her record!

Greeat debut btw, like a girly OTW

This is one of my faves off the first album, the new wave-ish "Come Give Your Love To Me"

JDilla sampled it on "Glamour Sho75", one of his tracks from his posthumous album

This other track from the JJ album, "Love and My Best Friend", kind of reminds me of MJ's "Ben" meets Klymaxx's "I'd Still Say Yes"

another good one off of Janet Jackson

Azz said:

"A lot of what Janet did Michael had already done" That is utter rubbish Michael was mostly one dimensional. Michael copied Control when he did Bad, similarly, he copied Rhythm Nation when he did Dangerous. Michael never touched on sexual themes and don't even get me started on The Velvet Rope... It dealt with issues Michaels attempted-sqeauky clean image would never; he always marketed for maximum sales and I imagine he was much too childish to do so anway Sometimes I think it would have been better if Janet had never danced, because that's the only similarity they had. But even then... Each one of Janet's videos had new choreography and was more diverse - instead of just redoing boring signature moves. [Edited 9/22/12 10:13am] [Edited 9/22/12 10:17am]

No it is not rubbish especially when Janet HERSELF has said this out her mouth and its quite obvious.... All the brothers and family members have worked with the same people. If my brother or sibling worked with a director that worked with a theme I was going for and they exactly worked with my family I would seek them out to because they did good work with my family doesnt necessarily mean I am COPYING a product that they did.

Your comment that Michael was one dimensional is utter bullshit and I am not even going to bother to formulate an arguement with that.

Its obvious you prefer Janet but dont speak bullshit or delusions just because you dont like him. Saying things that he was childish Michael made love/ sexual songs as well.

Michael did not always market for maxium sales it may appear that way since he is a bigger star than Janet and please dont sit up here and since Janet didnt market herself for mass appeal either she is a POP star she isnt a underground singer

All of Janets choregraphy isnt all spetacular and Michael had new choregraphy in his videos with people and BY HIS SELF that is recaptured everyday and influenced.

SEANMAN said:

Sorry, but Rhythm Nation has absolutely no filler. None. Not one song is filler on that album, which is why more than half of its songs became singles and all of those singles became Top 5 Hot 100 hits. That's not fan talk, it's just truth.

I do think that, to some extent, Michael was coming from a "Whoa, hold up. Janet is doing some big things..." stance, and thus sought out some of the producers/music video directors she was working with (Herb Ritts,/Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis/Heavy D.) And, before anyone gets all "you're attacking MJ" on me, no, I'm not. Even he was in awe of how great Janet's "The Knowledge" from RN is, and he used to rehearse his dancing techniques to it. I'd even go so far as to say that his window-smashing scene at the end of "Black or White" was a replica of Janet's "The Knowledge" segment from her RN mini-movie. He even had some soundbytes from a couple of her songs included in his 1995 MTV Music Awards performance.

As for never hearing RN's singles on the radio, well, it's actually just the opposite. I hear those songs all the time, particularly on '80s, '90s and today stations and on R&B stations during their quiet storm programming. The singles from RN are always being sampled and remade as well.

Sorry but it did and its in NO WAY on the level of Whats Going On

It is a good pop album though I'll give it that.

And my same response goes to you like I said to Azz just because he worked with similiar people doesnt mean he was trying to COPY Janet Michael did a completely DIFFERENT theme song when he worked with Heavy D, Herb, Jimmy Jam etc... and since they are brother and sisters that are superstars naturally they will ask for recommendations from eachother or want to seek out the same people to work with especially if their notably GOOD.

Straight Copying an idea is what Janet did when she asked Michael if she could steal his military theme idea for Captain EO.

I have NEVER heard a RN single on the radio, EVER. I mostly hear Control era songs as well as Velvet Rope... not RN.

duccichucka said:

Rhythm Nation is better than all of Bad and the second half of Dangerous.

What makes it a better album besides Jimmy Jam/ Terry production?

I disagree but everyone is entitled to their opinion. I am more impressed with BAD being Michael wrote majority of the album as well as Dangerous and composed some of the songs his self and those albums have aged better and are more influential. You constantly hear those songs all the time and they sound fresh.

mjscarousal said:

All of Janets choregraphy isnt all spetacular and Michael had new choregraphy in his videos with people and BY HIS SELF that is recaptured everyday and influenced.

Yeah, okay

mjscarousal said:

duccichucka said:

Rhythm Nation is better than all of Bad and the second half of Dangerous.

What makes it a better album besides Jimmy Jam/ Terry production?

I disagree but everyone is entitled to their opinion. I am more impressed with BAD being Michael wrote majority of the album as well as Dangerous and composed some of the songs his self and those albums have aged better and are more influential. You constantly hear those songs all the time and they sound fresh.

What kind of question is that?

LOL @ Bad sounding fresh. Bad consists of one sound; a sound which became outdated within a couple of years.

mjscarousal said:

SEANMAN said:

Sorry, but Rhythm Nation has absolutely no filler. None. Not one song is filler on that album, which is why more than half of its songs became singles and all of those singles became Top 5 Hot 100 hits. That's not fan talk, it's just truth.

I do think that, to some extent, Michael was coming from a "Whoa, hold up. Janet is doing some big things..." stance, and thus sought out some of the producers/music video directors she was working with (Herb Ritts,/Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis/Heavy D.) And, before anyone gets all "you're attacking MJ" on me, no, I'm not. Even he was in awe of how great Janet's "The Knowledge" from RN is, and he used to rehearse his dancing techniques to it. I'd even go so far as to say that his window-smashing scene at the end of "Black or White" was a replica of Janet's "The Knowledge" segment from her RN mini-movie. He even had some soundbytes from a couple of her songs included in his 1995 MTV Music Awards performance.

As for never hearing RN's singles on the radio, well, it's actually just the opposite. I hear those songs all the time, particularly on '80s, '90s and today stations and on R&B stations during their quiet storm programming. The singles from RN are always being sampled and remade as well.

Sorry but it did and its in NO WAY on the level of Whats Going On

It is a good pop album though I'll give it that.

And my same response goes to you like I said to Azz just because he worked with similiar people doesnt mean he was trying to COPY Janet Michael did a completely DIFFERENT theme song when he worked with Heavy D, Herb, Jimmy Jam etc... and since they are brother and sisters that are superstars naturally they will ask for recommendations from eachother or want to seek out the same people to work with especially if their notably GOOD.

Straight Copying an idea is what Janet did when she asked Michael if she could steal his military theme idea for Captain EO.

I have NEVER heard a RN single on the radio, EVER. I mostly hear Control era songs as well as Velvet Rope... not RN.

"Sorry but it did and its in NO WAY on the level of Whats Going On"

That's not for you to decide. Besides, what the critic said was that RN is Janet's own "What's Going On"--her take on what is happening in today's world. Just as "janet." is her "Let's Get It On". The critic didn't say "RN is on a par of "What's Going On"." And, what does RN not having any filler (which it doesn't) have to do with Marvin Gaye's album, anyway? Next.

"Straight Copying an idea is what Janet did when she asked Michael if she could steal his military theme idea for Captain EO."

Ahh, I see. Just like when Michael had a black panther walking around in his video while he smashed windows, ala Janet's "The Knowledge", a song that Michael went on record several times saying that he loved? Or when Michael hired Herb Ritts to film a video of him walking around in a desert with a beautiful supermodel, ala Janet's "Love Will Never Do (Without You)". And we all know that Michael needed Janet more than she needed him for "Scream". Besides, who's to say it was "straight copying" with the Captain EO thing, anyway? She may have been inspired by the military theme, but it was Janet and L.A. breakdancers Anthony Thomas and Terry Bixler who created the iconic RN routines. Next.

"I have NEVER heard a RN single on the radio, EVER. I mostly hear Control era songs as well as Velvet Rope... not RN."

Well then you need to open your ears and switch over from Mix 107.3 or whatever it is you're listening to, because I certainly hear the RN songs. Whether on the radio or walking around in the grocery store, they're played.

As someone upthread said, this is a Janet thread, so let's refrain from the tit-for-tat and celebrate the album that is the theme of it. Thank you.

Here are some RARE unreleased tracks recorded during the RN sessions

THE SKIN GAME

WORK

mjscarousal said:

Azz said:

"A lot of what Janet did Michael had already done" That is utter rubbish Michael was mostly one dimensional. Michael copied Control when he did Bad, similarly, he copied Rhythm Nation when he did Dangerous. Michael never touched on sexual themes and don't even get me started on The Velvet Rope... It dealt with issues Michaels attempted-sqeauky clean image would never; he always marketed for maximum sales and I imagine he was much too childish to do so anway Sometimes I think it would have been better if Janet had never danced, because that's the only similarity they had. But even then... Each one of Janet's videos had new choreography and was more diverse - instead of just redoing boring signature moves. [Edited 9/22/12 10:13am] [Edited 9/22/12 10:17am]

No it is not rubbish especially when Janet HERSELF has said this out her mouth and its quite obvious.... All the brothers and family members have worked with the same people. If my brother or sibling worked with a director that worked with a theme I was going for and they exactly worked with my family I would seek them out to because they did good work with my family doesnt necessarily mean I am COPYING a product that they did.

Your comment that Michael was one dimensional is utter bullshit and I am not even going to bother to formulate an arguement with that.

Its obvious you prefer Janet but dont speak bullshit or delusions just because you dont like him. Saying things that he was childish Michael made love/ sexual songs as well.

Michael did not always market for maxium sales it may appear that way since he is a bigger star than Janet and please dont sit up here and since Janet didnt market herself for mass appeal either she is a POP star she isnt a underground singer

All of Janets choregraphy isnt all spetacular and Michael had new choregraphy in his videos with people and BY HIS SELF that is recaptured everyday and influenced.

Michael only ever cared about sales.

When he approached a new album, it was always about selling more.

I'm not saying Janet wasn't marketed for the mainstream, but for instance, Control was never made to sell 14 million copies, it was aimed at the black public. Then she focused on social themes, a risky move, and went against her record label. Then, after hitting her sales peak, she chose to do TVR, themes which aren't mainstream, no. Then All For You, which was overly sexy and got a parental advisory stamp on it.

I'm not saying she wasn't a mainstream artist, but she did what she wanted and what she was feeling; not what would sell most and not what would give her a squeaky clean image. And she didn't need this pretence-squeaky clean image, because she didn't have any skeletans in her closet.

[Edited 9/23/12 11:54am]

Azz said:

mjscarousal said:

What makes it a better album besides Jimmy Jam/ Terry production?

I disagree but everyone is entitled to their opinion. I am more impressed with BAD being Michael wrote majority of the album as well as Dangerous and composed some of the songs his self and those albums have aged better and are more influential. You constantly hear those songs all the time and they sound fresh.

What kind of question is that?

LOL @ Bad sounding fresh. Bad consists of one sound; a sound which became outdated within a couple of years.

So what do you think RN sounds like?

RN is a straight New Jack Sing 80s sounding album.... and it Still sounds that way TODAY... Not on the songs on BAD sound like that and especially not Dangerous.

That was a rhetoical question.

Okay my que to bounce ... this thread has turned into a MJ bash fest ONCE AGAIN because the lunatical crazy ass Janet stans are pressed and feel threatened...... why I dont know this thread is not even about Michael, not about to argue back and forth because its really nothing to argue about.

This proves that NONE of the Janet fans can have a descent objective arguement when it comes to Michael JACKSON... A number of MJ stans have responded objectively in this last couple of Janet threads but its clear none of the Janet fans cant....... that isnt good. Discussions can be made without everything turning to a competition or arguement. This thread is about Janets Rhythm Nation album not about MJ or ranting about how much you think Janet is better than him... WE KNOW YOU THINK THAT YOUR A JANET STAN!!!! STFU and just talk about album

[Edited 9/23/12 12:03pm]

mjscarousal said:

Azz said:

What kind of question is that?

LOL @ Bad sounding fresh. Bad consists of one sound; a sound which became outdated within a couple of years.

So what do you think RN sounds like?

RN is a straight New Jack Sing 80s sounding album.... and it Still sounds that way TODAY... Not on the songs on BAD sound like that and especially not Dangerous.

That was a rhetoical question.

That was rhetoric?

RN is more diverse than Bad.

Bad could be one track, and has a fair amount of filler. The image he was trying to portray is frake, false and fraudulent