smoothcriminal12 said:

Is because at the end of the day, you know that your opinion means nothing.

The stan wars, the flaming, the arguments that erupt over nothing.

And yes, this is a response to that dumb Whitney, Madonna, Janet, Mariah thread that has erupted into nothing but stan wars, and the various comments I see daily on the org.

Your opinion means NOTHING. I will repeat that for those that didn't catch it the first time, your opinion means NOTHING.

Saying that someone else's opinion doesn't matter because they like another artist that you don't like is wrong and irrelevant. You have no empirical evidence of any sort that said artist is inferior in any way, shape, or form.

You can continue to throw around words like, "trash", "crap", or claim that the artist only cares about the money. It doesn't matter. Guess what? It's called an industry for a reason. It's called a business for a reason.

The Beatles are as much of a product as Flo Rida is; they were marketed to the public as a brand so that money could be made. It's an INDUSTRY. Money is the goal. The music industry thrives off of the money that it makes and therefore sells products (better known as artists) that it thinks will be profitable.

Michael Jackson was a product.

Elvis Presley was a product.

Lady Gaga is a product.

The Beatles were a product.

Prince was a product.

Why did I mention all that about the industry above? I'm trying to say something. Your opinion is nothing but that; an opinion. You cannot prove that The Beatles are superior to Soulja Boy, nor can you claim that Soulja Boy is more of a product than The Beatles.

I'm tired of the mucking about and the stan wars. The music discussion here, when it happens, is fantastic. Timmy's new music thread was one of the greatest threads to come out of this year. Those who are here for music and want to talk more about it should continue to push forward so that we can accomplish that goal. I have been a victim of the mentality that I trashed above, and am trying to rectify it.

I just feel like I needed to get that off of my chest. I'm going to start doing things a bit differently here, starting with "smoothcriminal's album of the week" and "smoothcriminal's throwback jam of the day", to occur daily. Just wanna spark some interesting conversation that is needed.

And to clarify, this is not directed towards any particular user. This is a result of multiple things I've seen written on the org throughout my almost two years hear.

Opinions? Thoughts? This thread could make for some interesting conversation.

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What more needs to be said?

aardvark15 said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

In music, independent music, often shortened to indie music or "indie" is a term used to describe independence from major commercial record labels or their subsidiaries, and an autonomous, Do-It-Yourself approach to recording and publishing. Though many independent music artists are often categorized under other genres because the style itself is undefined.

I'm basically doing all the things a label does by myself, and the small team of people working with me.

So you get all the money but you have to promote it yourself? That's what I'm getting, right?

Basically I get a large majority of the money but do it myself, yes.

EyeJester7 said:

I literally just stayed here reading EVERY single post on this topic..So you know I am going to comment. lol

First off; Smooth, you're very smooth! You present your words very well, and I almost died when I realized you were 15. LOL.

Just another proof, wisdom is a merit found in anyone. ANYONE can be articulate and understandable.

I think talking about music is such a multifaceted topic. So many people have discussed the details and anatomy of music but most importantly the opinions of these discussions. So much can be said; and has already been said but I would like to add my two cents.

As it has already been clarified; Opinions are JUST Opinions in comparison to 'truth.' I do believe in absolute truth, notwithstanding opinions. HOWEVER..Music is unable to be considered as TRUTH. What I mean is music has too many faces, that are rarely given clarity. ALL that is really known and possibly can summarize it; is that it effects us in ways many other expressions are incapable of. It's a soul expression, with a special spirit of manifestation.

When you look back in the past, there is always music from the past that people will always hold on to as THE BEST. But as someone already established And I quote:

Now the whole marketing thing, well that i gotta say is a little insane, YES they are all marketed to sell but to lump it all in as one is crazy, the music industry today is not even a music industry, that died about 20 years ago when soundscan and viacom bought it and took over and made it a media outlet, MUSIC now is not even an issue it has no weight anymore or importance, it also is marketed to sell and only sell, no one can take a loss and no one is taking chances to lose, and you cant tell me that people back then werent taking risks and dealing with artists that lost money, Prince and Warner was in debt when 1999 came out, Billy Joel by the time The Stranger came out, which was his what 6th album, was in debt to his label about a million bucks, The band the Jayhawks borrowed two million dollars against their contract to make their 1996 album "sound of lies" which didnt even go gold, SORRY but no one is getting that kind of risk today, so i get your point, but its a whole new ball game now in terms of how things get marketed out of the box.

^^ I totally agree with this post, in terms of how these 'artist's' are marketed it's a whole new ball game. SELLING is the main goal; it has less to do with the merit of what is actually put into it. So; many of these so called artists are even more considered as Products than anything else.

I agree in how 'The Beatles/MJ/Prince/etc..are products as well. Everyone in the industry are marketed to sell. It just seems there is the artist with the intentions to sell because they LOVE music and feel this is what they were born to do. In contrast to those doing music for the sake of fame, and the industry's hand in their 'Popularity'. Also the internet has exploded into something no one likely predicted. Facebook, Twitter, and Youtube have changed a lot things in terms of followers and promotion...But...

Opinions should be respected. Music is everywhere, and it's impossible to find ALL of it out. So much good music out there. I'm thankful for sites like Spotify and Soundcloud as it's another medium to hear new artists. ALSO; Mix tapes and what not is still a present medium for new artists.

Opinions are largely influenced by preference and a sense of motivated objectivity. We all have to come to a place of respect and understanding of the way perspective works. Experiences, inspirations, and theory all have their play. I think we all just have to come to a place where we discuss and not get all angry.

We are always going to have discussions, and comments that make our eyebrows arise...lol. But there must be a textual joint bringing the two oppositions together. Over the computer screen, intentions are hardly understood. We have 'Gifs/emoticons' and other symbols to help convey our meanings, but they often suffer due to sarcasm. It's hard to find meaning over a computer screen..One can be absolutely serious or sarcastic..but if there is no way of finding out; there is an ongoing discussion. SO..we need a joint of understanding, and if we aren't going anywhere let's just stop it at where it seems repetitive.

ALL in all, this was a great read and motivated a video I'll make in the future.

Thanks everyone!!

Smooth, i thought you'd see the much needed at the time light heartedness in my earlier comment. But then again, this is a forum and i am British, that would make sarcasm/irony/whatever doubly hard to read amongst you American scum (that's more humour).

In seriousness, this is a subjective write up. I have no opinion on it

WetDream said:

Smooth, i thought you'd see the much needed at the time light heartedness in my earlier comment. But then again, this is a forum and i am British, that would make sarcasm/irony/whatever doubly hard to read amongst you American scum (that's more humour).

In seriousness, this is a subjective write up. I have no opinion on it

No, I looked back again and saw it. You were just lightening it up a bit when this thread was getting heavy.

I'm not American though, I'm Canadian. Canadian scum? Possibly.

My opinion means EVERYTHING..................2 me.

smoothcriminal12 said:

EyeJester7 said:

As it has already been clarified; Opinions are JUST Opinions in comparison to 'truth.' I do believe in absolute truth, notwithstanding opinions. HOWEVER..Music is unable to be considered as TRUTH. What I mean is music has too many faces, that are rarely given clarity. ALL that is really known and possibly can summarize it; is that it effects us in ways many other expressions are incapable of. It's a soul expression, with a special spirit of manifestation.

You have captured the essence of of exactly what I was trying to say.

Since there is also no absolute truth in music, then people stay mad because their opinions mean "nothing" in the sense that no matter what, people think what they think. You can argue until you're blue in the face that MJ is better than Beyonce, but nothing will ever change my mind if I'm set on my beliefs. That is why their opinions mean nothing. It means nothing to the person who is set in their beliefs, so stan wars really do nothing at all for anyone. Some people just took what I said in the first sentence and ran with it, and whenever I clarified it was almost like they didn't read what I said.

aardvark15 said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

No, I looked back again and saw it. You were just lightening it up a bit when this thread was getting heavy.

I'm not American though, I'm Canadian. Canadian scum? Possibly.

The sad part is you know more about American politics than most Americans

WetDream said:

Smooth, i thought you'd see the much needed at the time light heartedness in my earlier comment. But then again, this is a forum and i am British, that would make sarcasm/irony/whatever doubly hard to read amongst you American scum (that's more humour).

In seriousness, this is a subjective write up. I have no opinion on it

Our humor/humour is so different though...

Timmy84 said:

Agree, for the most part. But that one guy who's a Nickelback fan .... his opinion means nothing, and everyone's opinion means more than his.

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You should be a product

I love all those artists you mentioned, but have grown bored of topics on them after debating for decades.

alphastreet said:

You should be a product

I love all those artists you mentioned, but have grown bored of topics on them after debating for decades.

I'm not a product...yet.

smoothcriminal12 said:

iloveannie said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

I'm not a product...yet.

Most of us are simply a commodity.

That would make for an interesting thread.

Some folks here need to lighten up, and stop being so damn thin-skinned if their favorite artist/celebrity gets criticised or goofed on. It's the internal folks - it's not all that serious.

No matter how many sales you list or how much shade you throw no one's opinion is gonna change over obnoxious ranting.

That being said if you say something overtly rude about and artist I like that's more mean spirited than constructive I'm gonna call you out on it.

A couple things i want to say.

First about the "Bitchiness" that sometimes goes on on the Org.

I was a Prince.org lurker for about 9 years. One of the reasons why i never signed up, or contributed, is because i felt there was too much petty bickering, music elitism, and general ass wholeness on here. I understand that people on the org have different personalities, lifestyles, music tastes, and are of different ages and live in different countries. I get all of that and i respect it for what it is. It just seems to me that sometimes people seem to go out of their way to be obnoxious, rude and condescending towards other people. A lot of the bickering could be avoided if people were more considerate of the next person.

Concerning music.

Music has a powerful influence on peoples lives. It brings us together but it also divides. Music can bring out the tribal instinct in people. To me it's almost as powerful as religion.

I understand why people tend to get defensive and confrontational when their music tastes are questioned. Its like you're saying that they're insignificant and their opinions have no value. It kinda messes with a persons self worth. We all have our musical preferences and each one is a creative expression and therefore valid. I do believe that some performers,musicians and singers are better than others, but each musical genre has what could be described as "good music" though.

We all have a right to voice opinions on the org. I think its not necessarily what you say,its how you say it.

[Edited 7/1/12 19:31pm]