purplethunder3121 said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Thank you, and yes, I am! Although no one besides my parents and a few teachers at school really know that I can talk like this.

I'm really impressed if you are still in high school... What do you want to do career-wise? You express yourself so well...

I want to be a musician, and if that doesn't work out, I wanna work in the music industry.

smoothcriminal12 said:

Azz said:

But no one ever knows the truth.

So YOU have to make opinions. And judge by these opinions.

The only way to get closest to the truth, is to gain knowledge, and increase the validity of your opinion. A judges opinion is more important than a criminals opinion, an example being that prisoners cannot vote in some countries.

But at the end of the day, it is an opinion.

Therefore, we can deduce that opinions matter. Opinions are essential, and thats why we all have one.

So, my point made in the original post and what I later clarified still stands:

Opinions don't matter in the sense that they have no influence or jurisdiction over what the actual truth is.

So they matter, but not in the sense I'm trying to say, which is that the truth is the truth no matter what, and the opinion doesn't matter because it cannot change the truth.

The opinion matters in varying degrees based on the circumstance, but the truth is.

If this is your argument, it's extremely obvious, with no need of mentioning, and quiet frankly - irrelivant. And I did not gather this from your original post.

The fact remains, opinions mean something - they matter. Which you stated the opposite of several times in few sentences. And I'm simply saying they do. And that is my argument.

Imagine if someone like Obama said that... the uproar it would cause... and that is becuase, it is wrong to say. And also, because, his opinion means something - its important.

[Edited 6/27/12 15:36pm]

Timmy84 said:

You know folks don't wanna believe the people who were popular ages ago were products but you can't deny that. Marvin Gaye was a product, so was Stevie. If you're a product, you make money. That's as true now as it was then. It's just that sounds have changed and we got computers. Other than that, how much has really changed besides Clear Connel owing almost everything?

Timmy84 said:

You know folks don't wanna believe the people who were popular ages ago were products but you can't deny that. Marvin Gaye was a product, so was Stevie. If you're a product, you make money. That's as true now as it was then. It's just that sounds have changed and we got computers. Other than that, how much has really changed besides Clear Connel owing almost everything?

But to dimiss it all with a broad stroke is what we all bitch about in the first place isnt it? people here dismiss rb today but all they hear is rihanna and chris brown so how is that valid? I think what people dont see is that U cant lose now like you could then, thats what im saying, sure its a business and blah blah blah, that same argument is as tired as their is better music on indie labels than major labels, or theres good music you have to search for it? all tired cliches. BUT today im sorry, you could not have an artist lose money on 6 albums in a row and still hold on to them because you think they are a valued artist, those decisions were made then and not now, no one is even making 6 albums now.

Also this applies to News Outlets, back in the day THEY were off limits to ratings and money games, now the CBS news and CNN compete with TMZ and run the same stories which is why even CNN reported 50 cent in a car accident? when in reality no one should have even heard that nonsense. Why do you think Dan Rather got fired? because he pissed on the machinery, and the major corpration clear channel/viacom, which is an arm in the GOVT decided he had to be fired, regardless of the fact that he was reporting NEWS which was his job, news now is a ratings game when back in the day, you could lose the battle just report what matters, 50 cent in an accident is not news and doesnt matter in the world at all.

nursev said:

Wow...do I really wanna go there Well, first off this is a discussion board so why post if u feel peoples opinions don't matter? Whether or not u agree with folks statements is irrelevant. People's opinions do matter. As far as the threads go, its kinda clickish to say someone's thread is superior to all other threads-im just sayin. People come in this forum to discuss the artist that they like and yes it can get a lil stanish, but to say their opinions don't matter is wrong. If u don't like a post don't comment n move on or report it. As far as, people posting about older artist work-there is room for both old and new music n this thread. The older music is where it all started anyway, so to say us "old heads" shouldn't post is definitely wrong too. Lastly, if people let the comments of internet posters bother them then there is something else wrong.

I'm glad someone shares my common sense.

Azz said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

If this is your argument, it's extremely obvious, with no need of mentioning, and quiet frankly - irrelivant.

The fact remains, opinions mean something - they matter. Which you stated the opposite of 4 times in about 4 sentences. And I'm simply saying they do. And that is my argument.

smoothcriminal12 said:

you know that your opinion means nothing.

Your opinion means NOTHING. I will repeat that for those that didn't catch it the first time, your opinion means NOTHING.

Imagine if someone like Obama said that... the uproar it would cause... and that is becuase, it is wrong to say.

[Edited 6/27/12 15:33pm]

Again, that's not what I'm saying.

Opinions have NO jurisdiction over the actual truth, in that aspect, they do not matter as the truth is the truth.

But opinions will matter in varying degrees based on the circumstance.

Your opinion has no influence over what the truth is, because the truth is.

But that brings me back to the second sentence.

That is not to say they don't matter at all. But when I say they don't matter, I mean relative to the truth, not that it literally means nothing.

I didn't clarify before.

Is it common sense? Or is it irritation?

nursev said:

Wow...do I really wanna go there Well, first off this is a discussion board so why post if u feel peoples opinions don't matter? Whether or not u agree with folks statements is irrelevant. People's opinions do matter.As far as the threads go, its kinda clickish to say someone's thread is superior to all other threads-im just sayin. People come in this forum to discuss the artist that they like and yes it can get a lil stanish, but to say their opinions don't matter is wrong. If u don't like a post don't comment n move on or report it. As far as, people posting about older artist work-there is room for both old and new music n this thread. The older music is where it all started anyway, so to say us "old heads" shouldn't post is definitely wrong too. Lastly, if people let the comments of internet posters bother them then there is something else wrong.

Sigh.

I've clarified the opinion point multiple times, read through to see what I mean.

There are various other things I could nitpick with you right now but I'm already going at it with Azz.

Or maybe some of you guys just think your opinion is the truth? I mean the way I look at comments like the ones made here about music being dead and shit, it's like a preacher or a politician saying something and looking for enough people to say aye to him...

So y'all keep on pushing until everyone agrees with you?

I mean these are important questions. Also don't understand the "well this is better than that" and how it's continually shoved.

I mean, you see where I'm getting at?

Azz said:

nursev said:

Wow...do I really wanna go there Well, first off this is a discussion board so why post if u feel peoples opinions don't matter? Whether or not u agree with folks statements is irrelevant. People's opinions do matter. As far as the threads go, its kinda clickish to say someone's thread is superior to all other threads-im just sayin. People come in this forum to discuss the artist that they like and yes it can get a lil stanish, but to say their opinions don't matter is wrong. If u don't like a post don't comment n move on or report it. As far as, people posting about older artist work-there is room for both old and new music n this forum. The older music is where it all started anyway, so to say us "old heads" shouldn't post is definitely wrong too. Lastly, if people let the comments of internet posters bother them then there is something else wrong. [Edited 6/27/12 15:45pm]

Opinion is just that though: an opinion. It don't even bother me, it's just annoying how everyone just keeps singing the same old song. But what if I say I liked this Nicki Minaj song, would you accuse me of being a dumbass with no musical knowledge? Because, and I think this is where smooth is going with this, whenever I read comments on an older song played on YouTube, it's always fueled with "Justin Bieber (or Nicki Minaj) or even Lana Del Rey can suck my dick, this is way better. Bring back real music!" That don't sound crazy to you?

My two cents: Music from the 60s, 70s, and 80s isn't necessarily superior--but good music was way more acessible then--at least through traditional media. That's why we need a permanent sticky like Timmy's new music thread to keep people in the mix--who aren't exposed or don't have time to surf the net to find good new music. It isn't that good new music doesn't exist--it is just harder to access. Yeah, Prince.org is getting older--but it is the young peeps that can keep it relevant by providing links to new music that older peeps don't know about. Just my two cents...which is all it is worth.

[Edited 6/27/12 15:52pm]

Relative to the truth no one's opinion is worth anything because it has no baring on it.

So your opinion is worth nothing because the truth is.

But that's not to say that your opinion is worth NOTHING.

smoothcriminal12

"I mad as hell and I'm not taking any mo'".

I've been where you at... you need a .

MickyDolenz said:

purplethunder3121 said:

My two cents: Music from the 60s, 70s, and 80s isn't necessarily superior--but good music was way more acessible than it was then--at least through traditional media. That's why we need a permanent sticky like Timmy's new music thread to keep people in the mix--who aren't exposed or don't have time to surf the net to find good new music. It isn't that good new music doesn't exist--it is just harder to access. Yeah, Prince.org is getting older--but it is the young peeps that can keep it relevant by providing links to new music that older peeps don't know about. Just my two cents...which is all it is worth.

In my case, the new music is actually not hard to find anymore...

iloveannie said:

The original poster has created a double negative. Quite funny really.

I've gotten myself in a box where it's hard to explain my way out, but I truly mean different than it seems.

Sometimes it's hard to explain myself.

TD3 said:

smoothcriminal12

"I mad as hell and I'm not taking any mo'".

I've been where you at... you need a .

Thank you.

Smooth..

I appreciate what you are saying...but not sure I agree with your conclusions.

You assume there is an objective "truth" about what's good & bad musically...

For my part, I find that people's opinions DO matter, in this day & age...in a more relative sense: I tend to listen to opinions of those individuals I respect.

The "new internet paradigm" lends itself very well to this exchange. It's worldwide, immediate, and discriminates less than real-world interaction ever could.

Let the Stans come & go. There's plenty of reasonable & appreciable critiques out here to be useful, IMO.

smoothcriminal12 said:

iloveannie said:

The original poster has created a double negative. Quite funny really.

I've gotten myself in a box where it's hard to explain my way out, but I truly mean different than it seems.

Sometimes it's hard to explain myself.

I think you do extremely well.

smoothcriminal12 said:

................................................................................................

nursev said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Sigh.

I've clarified the opinion point multiple times, read through to see what I mean.

There are various other things I could nitpick with you right now but I'm already going at it with Azz.

Actually, I did read ur thread. Secondly, I'm 40 so no teen can nitpick with me. I don't argue with teens. Just commented on ur thread since this is a discussion board. I have been here since 2003 and I find it interesting when folks post rants like this when they know they will get strong reactions from people.

Spoken like a Mom!

I only stay on this site for certain people. I hate this site honestly.

lastdecember said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Is because at the end of the day, you know that your opinion means nothing.

The stan wars, the flaming, the arguments that erupt over nothing.

And yes, this is a response to that dumb Whitney, Madonna, Janet, Mariah thread that has erupted into nothing but stan wars, and the various comments I see daily on the org.

Your opinion means NOTHING. I will repeat that for those that didn't catch it the first time, your opinion means NOTHING.

Saying that someone else's opinion doesn't matter because they like another artist that you don't like is wrong and irrelevant. You have no empirical evidence of any sort that said artist is inferior in any way, shape, or form.

You can continue to throw around words like, "trash", "crap", or claim that the artist only cares about the money. It doesn't matter. Guess what? It's called an industry for a reason. It's called a business for a reason.

The Beatles are as much of a product as Flo Rida is; they were marketed to the public as a brand so that money could be made. It's an INDUSTRY. Money is the goal. The music industry thrives off of the money that it makes and therefore sells products (better known as artists) that it thinks will be profitable.

Michael Jackson was a product.

Elvis Presley was a product.

Lady Gaga is a product.

The Beatles were a product.

Prince was a product.

Why did I mention all that about the industry above? I'm trying to say something. Your opinion is nothing but that; an opinion. You cannot prove that The Beatles are superior to Soulja Boy, nor can you claim that Soulja Boy is more of a product than The Beatles.

I'm tired of the mucking about and the stan wars. The music discussion here, when it happens, is fantastic. Timmy's new music thread was one of the greatest threads to come out of this year. Those who are here for music and want to talk more about it should continue to push forward so that we can accomplish that goal. I have been a victim of the mentality that I trashed above, and am trying to rectify it.

I just feel like I needed to get that off of my chest. I'm going to start doing things a bit differently here, starting with "smoothcriminal's album of the week" and "smoothcriminal's throwback jam of the day", to occur daily. Just wanna spark some interesting conversation that is needed.

And to clarify, this is not directed towards any particular user. This is a result of multiple things I've seen written on the org throughout my almost two years hear.

Opinions? Thoughts? This thread could make for some interesting conversation.

Some i can agree with but some sorry total nonsense, with this analogy Im a better Guitar Player than Prince because i said i am and you cant prove it, and even though i have never played the guitar it doesnt matter because no ones opinion matters. THough i will say that i agree when talking about best worst this and that for an aritst, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. We can sit here all day and say Prince's chaos and disorder is a terrible album of filler, and yet i along with many feel it was one of his best in the 90's, now that is opinion, from people that like Prince, JIM FARBER of the daily news gave that album a zero and then Emancipation 5 stars, why? opinion, and though his doesnt matter people put stock in all these critics etc...whether they go to a movie or buy a record. But i will say im NOT going to ask someone who hates Prince, "hows the new Prince cd" why would i? im going to ask a fan because believe it or not they are more honest.

Now the whole marketing thing, well that i gotta say is a little insane, YES they are all marketed to sell but to lump it all in as one is crazy, the music industry today is not even a music industry, that died about 20 years ago when soundscan and viacom bought it and took over and made it a media outlet, MUSIC now is not even an issue it has no weight anymore or importance, it also is marketed to sell and only sell, no one can take a loss and no one is taking chances to lose, and you cant tell me that people back then werent taking risks and dealing with artists that lost money, Prince and Warner was in debt when 1999 came out, Billy Joel by the time The Stranger came out, which was his what 6th album, was in debt to his label about a million bucks, The band the Jayhawks borrowed two million dollars against their contract to make their 1996 album "sound of lies" which didnt even go gold, SORRY but no one is getting that kind of risk today, so i get your point, but its a whole new ball game now in terms of how things get marketed out of the box

This is sadly true. Music isn't the no 1 thing in the world anymore. Both videogames and social media in general are much more important to people then music now. And more people would rather be famous off reality tv then be a pop star.

100 years ago, opera was the most popular form of entertainment, in the 40's and 50's, it was the movies, in the 60's-80's, it was pop music. Now Iam not entirely sure what it is, but its probably reality tv, videogames, mobile phones and how popular you are on facebook. World has changed, pop music has changed.

And also as you mentioned, the industry has been bought out by business corperations that have no passion for music that the old execs used to have. This has undoubtedly affected the music industry for the worse. Business graduates took over the music industry as that was no 1 industry at the time, and slowly killed it. It happened to movies aswell, and if not already, will happen to social media. Nature of the beast.

And Smoothcrimial12, your right to say flo rider is better the the beatles or whatever, its your opinion, and the industry has always indeed been a business. But in the early days, people did care more about the music, and that is not true now. All the independants and smaller record companies, that provided healthy and much more varied competition in the past, have gone from the public eye now. All you have left are about 3-4 major mammoth corporations running the whole industry, when you use to have 10's, if not 100's of smaller record companies, finding new artists and trying to mucsle in on the business, getting fresh product out.

The competition now is practically non-existant as theres barely any players left, which slows the industry down, and provides less incentive to find new talent and bring as much fresh, new talent to music as it use to do. The music industry has always been about money, but I totally disagree if you think it was the same back then, then it is now. Business grads basically fucked up the industry. It's more complex then that but they are definately a key factor, and they were not around until the 80's and grew more and more as we get into the present day.

babybugz said:

I only stay on this site for certain people. I hate this site honestly.

babybugz said:

I only stay on this site for certain people. I hate this site honestly.

That bad?!