Is it cause her mom abandoned her? Cause her shade is worse than Miss Ross'

Doesn't like anyone stealing her shine, even unintentionally. That's it, I think.

But Aretha seems to have it in for other women

Im going to remember all the orgers throwing shade at Aretha.

scriptgirl said:

But Aretha seems to have it in for other women

it seems that way to me too. i dont know much about her background but if her mom mistreated her that is certainly some of it. also the ego thing. madonna is the same way sometimes.

scriptgirl said:

Is it cause her mom abandoned her? Cause her shade is worse than Miss Ross'

Bingo.

Girl, Sista Franklin makes Ms. Ross look like Susie Sunshine.

Women who don't get along with other women (as much as they protest, its "the other") have issues up the yahzoo. Yeah, I said it and don't give me any grief tonight, I'm not in the mood.

Worst than Diana IDK . Diana just smiles more ....

[Edited 2/23/12 20:08pm]

BitetheBeat said:

TD3 said:

Girl, Sista Franklin makes Ms. Ross look like Susie Sunshine.

IDK . Diana just smiles more ....

[Edited 2/23/12 20:03pm]

Oh I seeeeeeeeeeeeeee ...... In other words, through that smile... those teeth she's cussin' your ass out.

Smile

Thanks Ms Trina!

Smiling faces, smiling faces....

***I really would like to know more about Aretha's mom. Its like she's never mentioned and if so only for a split second.

[Edited 2/23/12 20:10pm]

TD3 said:

scriptgirl said:

Is it cause her mom abandoned her? Cause her shade is worse than Miss Ross'

Bingo.

Girl, Sista Franklin makes Ms. Ross look like Susie Sunshine.

Women who don't get along with other women (as much as they protest, its "the other") have issues up the yahzoo. Yeah, I said it and don't give me any grief tonight, I'm not in the mood.

Aretha would rage if someone told her her mama abandoned her (apparently her moms left because Rev. C.L. was an abusive, possessive and philandering nut).

Its sad that she constantly has to have her ego massaged otherwise she's this massive bitch. She really needs to get her life together!!

wavesofbliss said:

scriptgirl said:

But Aretha seems to have it in for other women

it seems that way to me too. i dont know much about her background but if her mom mistreated her that is certainly some of it. also the ego thing. madonna is the same way sometimes.

Okay !!! I think there is something tied to it.

BitetheBeat said:

Smiling faces, smiling faces....

***I really would like to know more about Aretha's mom. Its like she's never mentioned and if so only for a split second.

[Edited 2/23/12 20:10pm]

Aretha's mom was the leader of C.L.'s church choir and, like Aretha, was also well skilled at the piano. Some even said her voice was amazing and that her voice was actually better than Aretha's. Apparently she got uncomfortable about her husband's growing fame, not to add that C.L. was actually as crazy as catnip - a saint on Sunday and a cussing, chain-smoking, alcoholic, blues-loving sinner from Monday-Saturday, and in a whim, she got the hell out of dodge and moved to Buffalo, New York with her son from another marriage, Vaughn. Aretha contended they had few visits afterwards from age 6-9. Who knows how many times Aretha and her fam was actually allowed to see Barbara because of C.L. and Aretha sugarcoats the thing, which could be understandable but Gladys Knight even said Aretha's moms abandoned her and so did Cissy Houston (and this was a main reason why Aretha stopped talking to them for several years, especially Gladys, Aretha and her haven't had a nice relationship since). Unfortunately Barbara died of breast cancer before Aretha turned 10.

Here's a picture of Barbara with C.L. (one of the only known pictures of her):

[img:$uid]http://i55.tinypic.com/md146b.jpg[/img:$uid]

(Aretha looks like both of her parents while Cecil, Erma and Carolyn seems to be the split image of their mother).

Aretha's dealings with other women may have also to do with her relationship with her father. She always saw herself as "Daddy's Little Girl" and would be jealous if her siblings or other women vied for his affection. So that and her mother's abandonment sowed the seeds of how Aretha has come to be to this day.

lazycrockett said:

Im going to remember all the orgers throwing shade at Aretha.

DO NOT put my name on that list; I'm just keeping it real.

The story back in the day was Aretha mother left C. L Franklin, their chidlren, and pots cookin' on the the stove. Be that as it may, Timmy point should be noted; the marriage was a disaster and Rev. Franklin was a womanizer. I'm putting that ever so kindly. Barbara Franklin had a baby every two years and between that and Franklin zipper problem I don't think Barbara could take much more. Did she abandoned the family, that's up for debate. Many folks said including --cough cough Ms. Knight-- said she (Barbara) did and Franklin said she didn't. I tend to think the former got it right.

In today's world people give women the side eye when they walk away from their kids. Unfair? Yeah.. it is what it is. Barbara walked away from two young girls. It wasn't done then, its not all that accepted now. Of course Babara passed away young as well... so we don't know if she would've had an impact on Sista Franklin life.

========================================

[Edited 2/23/12 20:44pm]

TD3 said:

lazycrockett said:

Im going to remember all the orgers throwing shade at Aretha.

DO NOT put my name on that list; I'm just keeping it real.

The story back in the day was Aretha mother left C. L Franklin, their chidlren, and pots cookin' on the the stove. Be that as it may, Timmy point should be noted; the marriage was a disaster and Rev. Franklin was a womanizer. I'm puttung that ever so kindly. Barbara Franklin had a baby every two years and between that and Franklin zipper problem I don't think Barbara could take much more. Did she abandoned the family, that's up for debate. Many folks said including --cough cough Ms. Knight-- said she did and Franklin said she didn't. I tend to think the former got it right.

In today's world people give women the side eye when they walk away from their kids. Unfair? Yeah.. it is what it is. Barbara walked away from two young girls. It wasn't done then, its not all that accepted now. Of course Babara passed away young as well... so we don't know if she would've had an impact on Sista Franklin life.

Don't seem like it did but I keep hearing that whenever Aretha sung in church, C.L. was jealous because Aretha sounded like her mother. Also Rev. Franklin was on some Rev. Marvin Gay, Sr./Bill Wyman type shit with some female members of his congregation. One of his illegitimate daughters was with a teenage congregation member. Rev. Franklin was a man whore. I'm thinking for you to run off and leave your children behind, it was more to it than philandering. I think Barbara was also physically abused and told to be put in her place. Apparently C.L. never married again after Barbara left him. He didn't even attend her funeral.

wow

Timmy84 said:

TD3 said:

DO NOT put my name on that list; I'm just keeping it real.

The story back in the day was Aretha mother left C. L Franklin, their chidlren, and pots cookin' on the the stove. Be that as it may, Timmy point should be noted; the marriage was a disaster and Rev. Franklin was a womanizer. I'm puttung that ever so kindly. Barbara Franklin had a baby every two years and between that and Franklin zipper problem I don't think Barbara could take much more. Did she abandoned the family, that's up for debate. Many folks said including --cough cough Ms. Knight-- said she did and Franklin said she didn't. I tend to think the former got it right.

In today's world people give women the side eye when they walk away from their kids. Unfair? Yeah.. it is what it is. Barbara walked away from two young girls. It wasn't done then, its not all that accepted now. Of course Babara passed away young as well... so we don't know if she would've had an impact on Sista Franklin life.

Don't seem like it did but I keep hearing that whenever Aretha sung in church, C.L. was jealous because Aretha sounded like her mother. Also Rev. Franklin was on some Rev. Marvin Gay, Sr./Bill Wyman type shit with some female members of his congregation. One of his illegitimate daughters was with a teenage congregation member. Rev. Franklin was a man whore. I'm thinking for you to run off and leave your children behind, it was more to it than philandering. I think Barbara was also physically abused and told to be put in her place. Apparently C.L. never married again after Barbara left him. He didn't even attend her funeral.

What you talkin' about hell C.L. made a pass at all the women and lil' girls his congregation, my understanding is many a gun and knife was pulled on that fool. It's a by the grace of something some didn't shoot or stab him. C.L. was notorious, my grandmother said, when he came to town he'd scope the congregation like rock musicians scope for women in the audience. Does anyone have a copy of American Masters, they speak of Barbara a lil'. Again trying to be balanced the reason given for C.L. taking those kids was he could provide for them. If I recall when Aretha/siblings visted Buffalo NY though she stayed with her maternal grandmother, her mother appeared in and out. Mostly out.... during her brief life.

======================

[Edited 2/23/12 21:09pm]

Aretha's attitude, defensiveness, guardedness, whatever you want to call it, reminds me so much of my mother. Somebody hurt that woman a long, long time ago and she's been holding on to that pain like a life saver.

TD3 said:

Timmy84 said:

Don't seem like it did but I keep hearing that whenever Aretha sung in church, C.L. was jealous because Aretha sounded like her mother. Also Rev. Franklin was on some Rev. Marvin Gay, Sr./Bill Wyman type shit with some female members of his congregation. One of his illegitimate daughters was with a teenage congregation member. Rev. Franklin was a man whore. I'm thinking for you to run off and leave your children behind, it was more to it than philandering. I think Barbara was also physically abused and told to be put in her place. Apparently C.L. never married again after Barbara left him. He didn't even attend her funeral.

What you talkin' about hell C.L. made a pass at all the women and lil' girls his congregation, my understanding is many a gun and knife was pulled on that fool. It's a by the grace of something some didn't shoot or stab him. C.L. was notorious, my grandmother said, when he came to town he'd scope the congregation like rock musicians scope for women in the audience. Does anyone have a copy of American Masters, they speak of Barbara a lil'. Again trying to be balanced the reason given for C.L. taking those kids was he could provide for them. If I recall when Aretha/siblings visted Buffalo NY though she stayed with her maternal grandmother, her mother appeared in and out. Mostly out.... during her brief life.

======================

[Edited 2/23/12 21:09pm]

Yeah Aretha didn't see much of Barbara. Also C.L. and Aretha seemed a little too close... apparently C.L. favored Aretha so much he kicked the rest of his children out of their home but kept Aretha. Apparently C.L. saw dollar signs in Aretha's voice, which can explain why he didn't react like other preachers when their children wanted to go secular (Marvin, Bobby Womack, Sam Cooke, etc.). There's even a rumor that Barbara's death wasn't accurate. I said "breast cancer" but the official report was said to be of a heart attack but I'm reading she might've died in a car crash so I don't know what's the truth about that. Aretha heard of her mother's death while she was in her mother's home.

So many questions-how many siblings does aretha have by her parents?

What does C.L. stand for and did he come from a church family? Is there a reason he was a whore?

So Barbara was married before and had a kid-back in that day in age wasn't that scandalous and wasn't it even more so that she was the preacher's wife?

Wasn't breast cancer rare back then?

scriptgirl said:

So many questions-how many siblings does aretha have by her parents?

What does C.L. stand for and did he come from a church family? Is there a reason he was a whore?

So Barbara was married before and had a kid-back in that day in age wasn't that scandalous and wasn't it even more so that she was the preacher's wife?

Wasn't breast cancer rare back then?

1.) Three by both (Erma is the oldest, followed by Cecil, then Aretha and then Carolyn), one by her mother (Vaughn) and one by her father. So that's five.

2.) C.L. stood for Clarence LaVaughn. He came from a family of sharecroppers. Who knows why he became a whore?

3.) No I think Barbara had a child out of wedlock but don't quote me. It was quite a scandal to have a child out of wedlock in those days. Marvin's mother had a child out of wedlock before she married Rev. Marvin Sr.

4.) I had to correct myself, she died of a heart attack allegedly but she wasn't even home when she died, someone said she died in a car crash.

scriptgirl said:

So many questions-how many siblings does aretha have by her parents?

What does C.L. stand for and did he come from a church family? Is there a reason he was a whore?

So Barbara was married before and had a kid-back in that day in age wasn't that scandalous and wasn't it even more so that she was the preacher's wife?

Wasn't breast cancer rare back then?

Not much is known about Barbara, she did have a son (Vaughan) that C.L. adopted. They had four kids: Emma (1938–2002), Cecil (1940–1989), Aretha (b. 1942), and Carolyn (1944–1988).

-------------------------------

[Edited 2/24/12 6:58am]

TD3 said:

scriptgirl said:

So many questions-how many siblings does aretha have by her parents?

What does C.L. stand for and did he come from a church family? Is there a reason he was a whore?

So Barbara was married before and had a kid-back in that day in age wasn't that scandalous and wasn't it even more so that she was the preacher's wife?

Wasn't breast cancer rare back then?

Not much is known about Barbara, she did have a son (Vaughan) the C.L. adopted. They had four kids: Emma (1938–2002), Cecil (1940–1989), Aretha (b. 1942), and Carolyn (1944–1988).

Aretha and Erma used to get at it about men. It's speculated Erma and Aretha used to fight over Dennis Edwards, the man Aretha wrote "Daydreaming" about. Apparently Erma dated Dennis first and then he and Aretha started fooling around even though Aretha had a man already (the father of her youngest child Kecalf, who had gotten busted with cocaine charges a couple years ago).

I love Aretha and her shadiness.

And where all y'all finding out this gossip about C.L.?

Timmy84 said:

TD3 said:

Not much is known about Barbara, she did have a son (Vaughan) the C.L. adopted. They had four kids: Emma (1938–2002), Cecil (1940–1989), Aretha (b. 1942), and Carolyn (1944–1988).

Aretha and Erma used to get at it about men. It's speculated Erma and Aretha used to fight over Dennis Edwards, the man Aretha wrote "Daydreaming" about. Apparently Erma dated Dennis first and then he and Aretha started fooling around even though Aretha had a man already (the father of her youngest child Kecalf, who had gotten busted with cocaine charges a couple years ago).

That's a hot mess... for real. Aretha was man crazy. I'm a lil' surprised because she had brothers. Author Toni Morrison once said, " You could tell a difference between women who had brothers for siblings and women who didn't... because the latter had a tendency to be silly about men. I have found this to be very true.

Tho' most women I know who don't get alone with women, "chase" after men. Just my observation. I said befo' I'm not in the mood to argue today or yesterday... in about 20 minutes.

scriptgirl said:

And where all y'all finding out this gossip about C.L.?

Actually I think most of the info is in a book about C.L., I forgot the name of it but they pretty much confirmed what has been posted here. However there is gossip that C.L. possibly molested his daughter and that's how Clarence was born but I don't know how true that is and honestly don't want it to be. Aretha's fucked up.

TD3 said:

Timmy84 said:

Aretha and Erma used to get at it about men. It's speculated Erma and Aretha used to fight over Dennis Edwards, the man Aretha wrote "Daydreaming" about. Apparently Erma dated Dennis first and then he and Aretha started fooling around even though Aretha had a man already (the father of her youngest child Kecalf, who had gotten busted with cocaine charges a couple years ago).

That's a hot mess... for real. Aretha was man crazy. I'm a lil' surprised because she had brothers. Author Toni Morrison once said, " You could tell a difference between women who had brothers for siblings and women who didn't... because the latter had a tendency to be silly about men. I have found this to be very true.

Tho' most women I know who don't get alone with women, "chase" after men. Just my observation. I said befo' I'm not in the mood to argue today or yesterday... in about 20 minutes.

From what I heard, Aretha was definitely a dick chaser...