Timmy84 said:

SoulAlive said:

the Supremes is a great example.After a certain point,Diana didn't need to continue with the two other girls.She was smart to go solo in 1970 without looking back.

Right. Plus she was getting so much coverage by herself, it would've been silly for her to stay with them as she embarked on more solo endeavors.

Exactly.At a certain point,Diana was the one getting all the attention.What did she need the other girls for? She could make solo records and simply use background singers.Some lead singers outshine the other members,so it makes sense to go solo.It was clear from the beginning of the Jackson Five days that Michael was the only true "star" in the group.

SoulAlive said:

Timmy84 said:

Right. Plus she was getting so much coverage by herself, it would've been silly for her to stay with them as she embarked on more solo endeavors.

Exactly.At a certain point,Diana was the one getting all the attention.What did she need the other girls for? She could make solo records and simply use background singers.Some lead singers outshine the other members,so it makes sense to go solo.It was clear from the beginning of the Jackson Five days that Michael was the only true "star" in the group.

Yeah it wasn't like the Four Tops where all four shared equal billing or the Temptations and most of them could sing lol Michael stood out for a reason.

Timmy84 said:

SoulAlive said:

Exactly.At a certain point,Diana was the one getting all the attention.What did she need the other girls for? She could make solo records and simply use background singers.Some lead singers outshine the other members,so it makes sense to go solo.It was clear from the beginning of the Jackson Five days that Michael was the only true "star" in the group.

Yeah it wasn't like the Four Tops where all four shared equal billing or the Temptations and most of them could sing lol Michael stood out for a reason.

And he stands out even in death.

babybugz said:

Timmy84 said:

Yeah it wasn't like the Four Tops where all four shared equal billing or the Temptations and most of them could sing lol Michael stood out for a reason.

And he stands out even in death.

Exactly.

Timmy84 said:

SoulAlive said:

Exactly.At a certain point,Diana was the one getting all the attention.What did she need the other girls for? She could make solo records and simply use background singers.Some lead singers outshine the other members,so it makes sense to go solo.It was clear from the beginning of the Jackson Five days that Michael was the only true "star" in the group.

Yeah it wasn't like the Four Tops where all four shared equal billing or the Temptations and most of them could sing lol Michael stood out for a reason.

same thing with the stones, u2 and even the beatles. mick and "keef" are not bigger than the group they are in. bono is the frontman of u2, but is he 'bigger' than the group? no. and although john and paul contributed most of the songwriting, i would never consider ringo and george to have been mere 'background' players. these bands work or worked as an integrated whole b/c they all bring or brought something to the table as individuals, which is/was integral to the success of the group. the same cannot be said for the j5.

kibbles said:

Timmy84 said:

Yeah it wasn't like the Four Tops where all four shared equal billing or the Temptations and most of them could sing lol Michael stood out for a reason.

same thing with the stones, u2 and even the beatles. mick and "keef" are not bigger than the group they are in. bono is the frontman of u2, but is he 'bigger' than the group? no. and although john and paul contributed most of the songwriting, i would never consider ringo and george to have been mere 'background' players. these bands work or worked as an integrated whole b/c they all bring or brought something to the table as individuals, which is/was integral to the success of the group. the same cannot be said for the j5.

Right.

You guys can continue to circle jerk MJ all day saying he was a shining star to bright to contain ..but the fact still remains..if he remained with his family..he would still be alive.

rdhull said:

You guys can continue to circle jerk MJ all day saying he was a shining star to bright to contain ..but the fact still remains..if he remained with his family..he would still be alive.

and you can continue to circle jerk his family all day long, but the fact remains there is no evidence whatsoever to claim that they would have saved him from himself. they can't even be bothered to treat him, his memory or his children right now that he's gone, so what on earth makes you think they gave a good goddam when he was here?

kibbles said:

rdhull said:

You guys can continue to circle jerk MJ all day saying he was a shining star to bright to contain ..but the fact still remains..if he remained with his family..he would still be alive.

and you can continue to circle jerk his family all day long, but the fact remains there is no evidence whatsoever to claim that they would have saved him from himself. they can't even be bothered to treat him, his memory or his children right now that he's gone, so what on earth makes you think they gave a good goddam when he was here?

But Im not circle jerking his family. Maybe thats the disconnect here lol. Or maybe the typical MJ fandom stuff, even if its subconscious.

rdhull said:

You guys can continue to circle jerk MJ all day saying he was a shining star to bright to contain ..but the fact still remains..if he remained with his family..he would still be alive.

Maybe or maybe not. I think Michael in general should have surrounded himself with better people but what’s done is done sadly. It’s just a big what if *shrugs*

I don't think his family would've been his saving grace. Damn it if he did and damn if he didn't which is what was Michael's unfortunate state. It's easy to say he needed his family but his family (some of them) weren't any better in their treatment of him either. But it is what it is...sadly.

rdhull said:

You guys can continue to circle jerk MJ all day saying he was a shining star to bright to contain ..but the fact still remains..if he remained with his family..he would still be alive.

i agree 100%, dealing with trifling,greedy relatives is not exclusive to mj, hell i got some and im just a regular working person. when mj seperated himself from his blood relatives is when he started to self destruct. so let me get this straight,fans feel good about him cutting his family out his life but look at what he replaced them with and what it brought to his life. you cant deny facts and the facts are mj was on top of the world,everybody loved him and he made great music when he was still around his family. once he isolated himself he became a like a parody of his old self, he was accused of molesting kids,he became an addict, he ended up in financial trouble,his life was filled with shady doctors,he bought some kids and he eventually ended up dead way to soon.

All I will say is something happened to him after thriller but what's been said has been said enough times I just focus on the music now.

rdhull said:

kibbles said:

and you can continue to circle jerk his family all day long, but the fact remains there is no evidence whatsoever to claim that they would have saved him from himself. they can't even be bothered to treat him, his memory or his children right now that he's gone, so what on earth makes you think they gave a good goddam when he was here?

But Im not circle jerking his family. Maybe thats the disconnect here lol. Or maybe the typical MJ fandom stuff, even if its subconscious.

you fail at reading comprehension b/c as i stated in an earlier post, i was never a j5/jackson fan. explain to me what's subconscious about that?

as soul alive et al has stated, the j5/jacksons basically boils down to one person. you can dismiss me as a 'stan', but even the posters who are not particularly mj fans can see reality. the brothers would have never have been signed to motown w/o mj and if they had had anything going for them, had had the talent and drive necessary to have careers in music, they wouldn't be (allegedly) looking for a "replacement" for their (allegedly) beloved brother.

you are DE-FIN-ITE-LY circle jerking his family when you claim that mj would have been better off with them when no matter how you look at it - professionally or personally - it's clear he would not have been. i cited all sorts of examples above, which you refuse to address b/c you have no logical answer for the behavior of his family, let alone your defense of same. mj's family could not save him b/c even they weren't people he could trust. there is no disconnect here, unless you're talking about yours from reality and facts staring you in the face.

lowkey said:

rdhull said:

You guys can continue to circle jerk MJ all day saying he was a shining star to bright to contain ..but the fact still remains..if he remained with his family..he would still be alive.

i agree 100%, dealing with trifling,greedy relatives is not exclusive to mj, hell i got some and im just a regular working person. when mj seperated himself from his blood relatives is when he started to self destruct. so let me get this straight,fans feel good about him cutting his family out his life but look at what he replaced them with and what it brought to his life. you cant deny facts and the facts are mj was on top of the world,everybody loved him and he made great music when he was still around his family. once he isolated himself he became a like a parody of his old self, he was accused of molesting kids,he became an addict, he ended up in financial trouble,his life was filled with shady doctors,he bought some kids and he eventually ended up dead way to soon.

..and Bingo was his name-o

"but they don't/won't hear you though"

Im not even a casual fan of MJ, so I don't have a dog in this race, but anyone can see that the family cared more bout the moneyand the fame than their son, or brother. All of them.

lazycrockett said:

Im not even a casual fan of MJ, so I don't have a dog in this race, but anyone can see that the family cared more bout the moneyand the fame than their son, or brother. All of them.

and the people he surrounded himself with cared about him? i dont care how much they loved his money i will never believe any of his relatives would have stood by while he had some doctor hooking him up to iv drips at night, or watch him bring strange families into his life so the kids can accuse him of sexual abuse, or watch him repeat the same dumb mistake and giving another kid/family the opportunity to accuse him of the same shit. we have no idea what went on behind the scenes with that family, but i know i saw them be there for him in his darkest hours even after mj supposedly had distanced himself and hadnt spoken to some of them in years.

i can tell the people who became fans of solo post-thriller mj. nobody will ever dispute he was clearly the most talented, but to say the other brothers were nothing to the group is ridiculous. the j5 fans loved them as a group, every brother had fans who loved them, it was not only about mike.myself and a whole lot of other fans loved mj best when he was with his brothers, eve his 30th anniversary special everybody i know loved the segment with his brothers the most.fans need to stop trying to act like mj appeared from thin air and became the king of pop, his legacy began with j5 and there is no michael jackson story without it.

lowkey said:

i can tell the people who became fans of solo post-thriller mj. nobody will ever dispute he was clearly the most talented, but to say the other brothers were nothing to the group is ridiculous. the j5 fans loved them as a group, every brother had fans who loved them, it was not only about mike.myself and a whole lot of other fans loved mj best when he was with his brothers, eve his 30th anniversary special everybody i know loved the segment with his brothers the most.fans need to stop trying to act like mj appeared from thin air and became the king of pop, his legacy began with j5 and there is no michael jackson story without it.

DUDE!!! say that!!!

I was bout to say "I can tell some of yall must be in your 20's or under 33 but I was tired of Kibbles n Bits tryna preach to an empty church and NOT GETTING IT.

Thank you for your posts that got down what Ive been attempting to get across. These jokers been on a steady diet of charts,stats, and boolshet for so damn long lol.....

everything you wrote in your last two posts are the gat damn truth

rdhull said:

bboy87 said:

I get what you're saying. I think Michael leaving caused the dynamics to crumble. It got worse and worse....and BAM! they're refusing to work with each other, one brother is talking about the other in a song, and another brother goes and fucks his other brother's baby momma...just a series of shit

You are a good person.

thanks I like the brothers and I'm glad they're going out and doing their thing, or at least 3 of them

There's 2 sides of the story...maybe 3...maybe 4. So there's reasons why things happened the way they did for Michael and the brothers but's kinda a whole other thing

While it's easy to say "Michael didn't need his brothers, he was the star, he should've left" or "The brothers kept him grounded, if he had stayed, he'd still be alive" but there's alot we don't know so I always try to be objective when it comes to the Jacksons....

....except for Joe

[img:$uid]http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/6075/joexq.jpg[/img:$uid]

this man will always get the side eye from me

bboy87 said:

rdhull said:

You are a good person.

thanks I like the brothers and I'm glad they're going out and doing their thing, or at least 3 of them

There's 2 sides of the story...maybe 3...maybe 4. So there's reasons why things happened the way they did for Michael and the brothers but's kinda a whole other thing

While it's easy to say "Michael didn't need his brothers, he was the star, he should've left" or "The brothers kept him grounded, if he had stayed, he'd still be alive" but there's alot we don't know so I always try to be objective when it comes to the Jacksons....

....except for Joe

[img:$uid]http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/6075/joexq.jpg[/img:$uid]

this man will always get the side eye from me

He got some nerve holding a gun. Seriously he's the only member of the Jackson family that I'll have no love for. I feel sorry for the children and Katherine but this fool... he gets no fucking love from me.

babybugz said:

rdhull said:

You guys can continue to circle jerk MJ all day saying he was a shining star to bright to contain ..but the fact still remains..if he remained with his family..he would still be alive.

Maybe or maybe not. I think Michael in general should have surrounded himself with better people but what’s done is done sadly. It’s just a big what if *shrugs*

THIS, not to mention the family is surrounded by shady folks taking advantage of them too

and again, Jermaine and Randy aren't involved. What exactly are they doing? I know Randy seems to have an issue (he refused to take part in the reality show, Cardiff and Tokyo tribute shows) going on and Jermaine is......being Jermaine

I'm so sick and tired of this family's never ending need for fucking attention. All of them are the saddest motherfuckers on the planet.

lowkey said:

rdhull said:

You guys can continue to circle jerk MJ all day saying he was a shining star to bright to contain ..but the fact still remains..if he remained with his family..he would still be alive.

i agree 100%, dealing with trifling,greedy relatives is not exclusive to mj, hell i got some and im just a regular working person. when mj seperated himself from his blood relatives is when he started to self destruct. so let me get this straight,fans feel good about him cutting his family out his life but look at what he replaced them with and what it brought to his life. you cant deny facts and the facts are mj was on top of the world,everybody loved him and he made great music when he was still around his family. once he isolated himself he became a like a parody of his old self, he was accused of molesting kids,he became an addict, he ended up in financial trouble,his life was filled with shady doctors,he bought some kids and he eventually ended up dead way to soon.

Are you fucking kidding me?? He left his family in '84 and 25 years later he dies because of a fucking doctor, who doesn't deserve to be called doctor and you claim that leaving his family is what killed him??? Talk about being deluded!! He was on top of the world for 10 years after leaving his family! He got hit hard in '93, but still managed to get back on top of the (pop) world. Seriously I hate people, who use that fucking asshole doctor as a justification to blame everything what has happened on Michael! The only mistake he did make was letting strangers get too close to him and trusting them and it's pretty easy to say "Uh, that was a mistake!" after the fact. So why don't you all just shut the fuck up! It's all speculation anyway! Nobody knows what would have happened, had he stayed a member of the Jacksons!

lowkey said:

i will never believe any of his relatives would have stood by while he had some doctor hooking him up to iv drips at night, or watch him bring strange families into his life so the kids can accuse him of sexual abuse, or watch him repeat the same dumb mistake and giving another kid/family the opportunity to accuse him of the same shit.

You seriously think that anyone in the family would have had an influence or a say in what he chooses to do in his private life?? He was a grown up! Do you let your family dictate you what you do in your private life????

PlayboyOriginal said:

I'm so sick and tired of this family's never ending need for fucking attention. All of them are the saddest motherfuckers on the planet.

You should see the Debarge family

time to

some people were discussing on facebook earlier today that they think the brothers are unsung in a way especially jermaine and randy

PatrickS77 said:

lowkey said:

i agree 100%, dealing with trifling,greedy relatives is not exclusive to mj, hell i got some and im just a regular working person. when mj seperated himself from his blood relatives is when he started to self destruct. so let me get this straight,fans feel good about him cutting his family out his life but look at what he replaced them with and what it brought to his life. you cant deny facts and the facts are mj was on top of the world,everybody loved him and he made great music when he was still around his family. once he isolated himself he became a like a parody of his old self, he was accused of molesting kids,he became an addict, he ended up in financial trouble,his life was filled with shady doctors,he bought some kids and he eventually ended up dead way to soon.

Are you fucking kidding me?? He left his family in '84 and 25 years later he dies because of a fucking doctor, who doesn't deserve to be called doctor and you claim that leaving his family is what killed him??? Talk about being deluded!! He was on top of the world for 10 years after leaving his family! He got hit hard in '93, but still managed to get back on top of the (pop) world. Seriously I hate people, who use that fucking asshole doctor as a justification to blame everything what has happened on Michael! The only mistake he did make was letting strangers get too close to him and trusting them and it's pretty easy to say "Uh, that was a mistake!" after the fact. So why don't you all just shut the fuck up! It's all speculation anyway! Nobody knows what would have happened, had he stayed a member ofhe

he was still living at home in 84 so how did he leave his family? im not talking about him leaving the group, im talking about him isolating himself from his family completely. his family was still around him during the bad era. if you think mj was back on top here in the us after those allegations we have a different definition of 'on top'. he became a laughing stock, a punchline, and a sad shell of himself. yeah he died because of the doctor but why was the doctor even there? and dont tell people to shut the fuck on on a discussion board who da fuck are you.

PatrickS77 said:

lowkey said:

i will never believe any of his relatives would have stood by while he had some doctor hooking him up to iv drips at night, or watch him bring strange families into his life so the kids can accuse him of sexual abuse, or watch him repeat the same dumb mistake and giving another kid/family the opportunity to accuse him of the same shit.

You seriously think that anyone in the family would have had an influence or a say in what he chooses to do in his private life?? He was a grown up! Do you let your family dictate you what you do in your private life????

its not a point of dictating what a grown up do with their life, but a person's enviornment have alot to do with the decisions they make. if mj was always around shady doctors and he had a addictive personality wtf did people expect would happen? if he was around his own family more often maybe he wouldnt had time to have sleepovers with lil jordy and nem. nobody knows what really went on or what what or could have been ,we are all speculation so like i said who are you to tell people to shut da fuck up? your opinion is no more important then the next person.