It ain't really the thought of them doing anything together again, it's the thought of them doing something together - and NOT doing it because "something came up".

How many times have they promised people there was gonna be a reunion only for it to NOT come into forewishing. So while people are debating why others are upset about this, believe me, they can do what the hell they want to do, I mean they DO have a legacy and shit BUT they still could've continued on as "The Jacksons" after Michael and Marlon left, Jackie, Tito and Randy could've still pushed the Jacksons into the 1990s.

It was their unrealistic thought that they would be treated the same as their brother, plus the arrival of Janet as a pop star also made them nervous. By 1990, they were already calling it quits. It was like they gave up or the industry just didn't want to do anything with them anymore because "you're not as good as Michael".

I just don't know how to feel about any of this. Especially if they don't do it. That means you're saying something and not following it up. And the family history is so difficult it's easy to say that so and so should've reunited with them early but who knows? We don't live with them so how would we know what was supposed to happen?

Hate making essays about this, but yeah.

PatrickS77 said:

lowkey said:

i will never understand why alot of mj fans feel it was so terrible for his brothers to wanna get back together for a tour. thats what they did all their lives and they needed mj, who was the leader of the group, in order for them to be successful. who would blame them for trying to get him back out there.

Yeah! I don't get that either and I think it's highly annoying! The Jackson 5 are part of his legacy, the Jackson 5 are what started his career and some fans almost felt offended by the thought of the group doing something together again.

CANUHELPME said:

1. It seem alot of MJ fans dont understand that the Jackson 5/Jacksons were a very important part of black culture in the 70's and 80's. 2. MJ forgot what created the Thriller. He should have never left the group. After the Victory tour MJ should have declared himself the leader of the group. He should have told Joe to sit down and collect a check. It was his way or no way. He should have made Sony respect the group as much as they respected his solo career. Each Jacksons album should have contained 3 or 4 tracks with MJ on lead. This Is It should have about their 40th anniversary. I think it's sad and ridiculous to see MJ and his boy toys performing J5 songs.

Going solo was the right step for him... he couldn't have done what he did by staying with them. His worldwide dominance only started after leaving his brothers. After the trial though he should have agreed to a family tour. That would have made his comeback so much easier and would have taken a lot of pressure off of him.

MJ could have used the Jacksons albums to experiment and work on new music between his solo albums. He was in charge. He could have performed small US tours (10 cities)with his brothers.

His worldwide dominance left him with legions of fans that only know his music after Thriller. To some he was only a video star.

The J5/Jacksons help create the superstar.

That should be:

scorp84 said:

[img:$uid]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v194/outspoken34/11b8ar6.gif[/img:$uid]

babybugz said:

This is him.

[img:$uid]http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r67/babybugz10457/wtf.jpg[/img:$uid]

Why would someone dare to go to a mother in a caricature make up of her dead son? Why does Katherine even agree to meet that person?

Musicslave said:

PatrickS77 said:

Going solo was the right step for him... he couldn't have done what he did by staying with them. His worldwide dominance only started after leaving his brothers. After the trial though he should have agreed to a family tour. That would have made his comeback so much easier and would have taken a lot of pressure off of him.

That's a very interesting point. You know, if there was a perfect time for a reunion tour, that probably would have been one of the best times for it. Oh well....

Exactly! '07 or '08 would have been perfect for that. Back from a selfimposed exile, free of all obligations with the first phase (or actually the second phase) of Michael the solo performer being closed and done in a way (he reached everything he set out to reach), not really knowing where to go anyway, not even sure whether to continue... it would have just been the right thing.

[Edited 12/29/11 8:48am]

CANUHELPME said:

PatrickS77 said:

Going solo was the right step for him... he couldn't have done what he did by staying with them. His worldwide dominance only started after leaving his brothers. After the trial though he should have agreed to a family tour. That would have made his comeback so much easier and would have taken a lot of pressure off of him.

MJ could have used the Jacksons albums to experiment and work on new music between his solo albums. He was in charge. He could have performed small US tours (10 cities)with his brothers.

His worldwide dominance left him with legions of fans that only know his music after Thriller. To some he was only a video star.

The J5/Jacksons help create the superstar.

Why should he? Why would he want to do that? There was no real time between his albums anyway. He spent promoting and touring an album for 2,5 years after it's release. Besides he was building his solo career! Building an image of this outerworldly, worldwide, megastar, rising higher than anyone before him. The Jacksons didn't really have a part in that and would have hindered him and worked pretty much against that!

But like I said, after the trial, after recovering, he should have done something with them. Go full circle in a way.

Also I have to say, I do not sense that there was a really big desire in the family anyway! I mean, they released only 1 album without him. Jermaine stopped making music in '91 altogether. Why would/should he drag them along, when they are not willing (or not capable) to try anything on their own (they would be just baggage at that point)??

But again, for the record. I would have loved seeing them getting back together at one point. And their reunion at the 30th anniversary show was the highlight for me.

[Edited 12/29/11 9:15am]

Going solo was the right step for him... he couldn't have done what he did by staying with them. His worldwide dominance only started after leaving his brothers.

I agree.After OTW,there was no reason for him to ever work with his brothers again.After that album,when people went to a Jacksons concert or bought a Jacksons album,it wasn't because of Tito,Marlon and the others.It was strictly because of Michael.

SoulAlive said:

Going solo was the right step for him... he couldn't have done what he did by staying with them. His worldwide dominance only started after leaving his brothers.

I agree.After OTW,there was no reason for him to ever work with his brothers again.After that album,when people went to a Jacksons concert or bought a Jacksons album,it wasn't because of Tito,Marlon and the others.It was strictly because of Michael.

I contest that he needed to stay at least for Triumph.

And Ill be honest...him leaving his brothers took something out of his art imo. Granted, the family followup, Victory is a let down after Triumph, but that was them all basically working on their own.

When they all worked together, great music happened.

Bad, Another Part of Me, Wannabestartin Something and some other Michael penned hits would sound fuller, greater, with the sibs as part of them than the solely Quincy productions imo.

edit:of course this is not to say that his star wasnt bright enough to be on his own as Hx has shown us but i was talking from a music to MY ears standpoint...plus going solo killed/ruined him

[Edited 12/29/11 9:15am]

rdhull said:

plus going solo killed/ruined him

[Edited 12/29/11 9:15am]

No! False allegations killed him!

PatrickS77 said:

rdhull said:

plus going solo killed/ruined him

[Edited 12/29/11 9:15am]

No! False allegations killed him!

nope..because if he rmeianed with the brothers he wouldnt have thought he was this new jesus and start acting the fool..the beginning of the end

BS! It was not him, who was the fool! Besides, what has happened to him on a personal level, would have happened regardless. Just because he records albums with them and does tours with them, wouldn't have changed his private life and the people he dealt with.

SoulAlive said:

After OTW,there was no reason for him to ever work with his brothers again.

You could say Phil Collins had no reason to work with Genesis again after his 1st solo album became a success, but he did. Needing to and wanting to are different things.

rdhull said:

PatrickS77 said:

No! False allegations killed him!

nope..because if he rmeianed with the brothers he wouldnt have thought he was this new jesus and start acting the fool..the beginning of the end

How??
MJ had a complex of God in 1983-1984, when he was still with his brothers. This process was absolutely inevitable and we all know the reason .......- THRILLER!!

He was too big star for his brothers, or they were too small stars in comparison with him.
Participants in a band should complement each other.
I do not think that the brothers played more features and carried more responsibilities on the stage than the average back-up singers.

I believe that MJ left the band during the right time and it was the right decision that forever.

MickyDolenz said:

SoulAlive said:

After OTW,there was no reason for him to ever work with his brothers again.

You could say Phil Collins had no reason to work with Genesis again after his 1st solo album became a success, but he did. Needing to and wanting to are different things.

that's the thing: I don't think Michael truly wanted to.He was pressured by his mother and the brothers themselves.Notice that on the Victory project,he didn't appear in any of the videos and chose to duet with Mick Jagger on "State Of Shock",instead of one of the brothers.

PatrickS77 said:

BS! It was not him, who was the fool! Besides, what has happened to him on a personal level, would have happened regardless. Just because he records albums with them and does tours with them, wouldn't have changed his private life and the people he dealt with.

1. Yes, it was him who acted the fool. "Need I get into specifics?"-Sil/The Sopranos...because I will.

2. The hair/commercial tragedy would have happened, yes. But the aftermath would have been handled in an adaptive manner.

3. Yes, touring and recording with ones family does change ones private life from spiraling in some situations and/or keep things in perspective. Cutting them off and isolating yourself to only yes men etc etc is a road to disaster.

Yeah Michael may have "lost" something leaving his brothers, but guess what, the brothers "lost" something too...

It's kinda like when Diana Ross left the Supremes. People love to argue that Diana "lost" something when she left but the Supremes - after Jean Terrell left - totally fell apart.

LiLi1992 said:

rdhull said:

nope..because if he rmeianed with the brothers he wouldnt have thought he was this new jesus and start acting the fool..the beginning of the end

How??
MJ had a complex of God in 1983-1984, when he was still with his brothers. This process was absolutely inevitable and we all know the reason .......- THRILLER!!

He was too big star for his brothers, or they were too small stars in comparison with him.
Participants in a band should complement each other.
I do not think that the brothers played more features and carried more responsibilities on the stage than the average back-up singers.

I believe that MJ left the band during the right time and it was the right decision that forever.

Well lets say the jesus complex would have been held at bay(as well as other things I will not mention) instead of unleashed and allowed to grow continually.

Im also quite aware of his star power compared to his brothers..which again was the beginning of the end (and the end wasnt in 2008 when he dies either...it was a decade or so before) and the catalyst for his nonsense.

the Supremes is a great example.After a certain point,Diana didn't need to continue with the two other girls.She was smart to go solo in 1970 without looking back.

So... Who's gonna sing lead?

SoulAlive said:

the Supremes is a great example.After a certain point,Diana didn't need to continue with the two other girls.She was smart to go solo in 1970 without looking back.

Right. Plus she was getting so much coverage by herself, it would've been silly for her to stay with them as she embarked on more solo endeavors. Eddie Kendricks of the Temptations wanted to go solo while still with the Temptations. Of course they wouldn't let him so he decided to leave anyway.

rdhull said:

PatrickS77 said:

BS! It was not him, who was the fool! Besides, what has happened to him on a personal level, would have happened regardless. Just because he records albums with them and does tours with them, wouldn't have changed his private life and the people he dealt with.

1. Yes, it was him who acted the fool. "Need I get into specifics?"-Sil/The Sopranos...because I will.

2. The hair/commercial tragedy would have happened, yes. But the aftermath would have been handled in an adaptive manner.

3. Yes, touring and recording with ones family does change ones private life from spiraling in some situations and/or keep things in perspective. Cutting them off and isolating yourself to only yes men etc etc is a road to disaster.

1. No it was not!

2. What does that have to do with anything? That certainly wasn't the problem. And don't come up with the BS that that was a reason for a suposed addiction and what happened in 2009!

3. There are times of touring and recording and there are times of private life. Even if he would have continued to work with them, he still would have moved to Neverland and conducted his life as he saw fit. And rightfully so. He's a grown up and doesn't have to ask for other people's opinion. And the press and public still would have had a field day tearing everything he did apart. I do agree though that leaches probably would have had a harder time creeping in, as 5 (or 6) people would have had to decide on business decisions, but then again.... it's not like there was an avalanche of bad decisions... until right after the end of the HIStory tours his business decisions pretty much were spot on... only in the lull before the Invincible album things started to deteriorate.

[Edited 12/29/11 10:00am]

SoulAlive said:

the Supremes is a great example.

No, because Ross wan't in the Supremes with her sisters.

rdhull said:

SoulAlive said:

the Supremes is a great example.

No, because Ross wan't in the Supremes with her sisters.

Well Mary Wilson thought they were "sisters". But still the Jacksons are a group as well as a family. There's always two sides or three sides to a story. We can't always hear one story and take it as face value. Remember Jermaine also left the brothers too.

Timmy84 said:

rdhull said:

No, because Ross wan't in the Supremes with her sisters.

Well Mary Wilson thought they were "sisters". But still the Jacksons are a group as well as a family. There's always two sides or three sides to a story. We can't always hear one story and take it as face value. Remember Jermaine also left the brothers too.

He left cause he was married to Gordys daughter and loyalty..not cause his head was swole thinking 40 million sold meant he was the second coming

rdhull said:

Well lets say the jesus complex would have been held at bay(as well as other things I will not mention) instead of unleashed and allowed to grow continually.

Im also quite aware of his star power compared to his brothers..which again was the beginning of the end (and the end wasnt in 2008 when he dies either...it was a decade or so before) and the catalyst for his nonsense.

This is understandable.
If an artist for 8 years before death does not release albums, 12 years does not go on tour, but the accused in the case of sexual offense against a child ...... let's just say that this is a difficult situation.
Frankly, I do not believe that MJ could come back with a great album, at least the level of "History" or with the song like "Stranger in Moscow": another time, a heavy personal drama, horrible reputation, etc.

But why he needed the brothers? He alone has sold hundreds of thousands of tickets for concerts in London in just a few hours. MJ could regain his status as a great artist and entertainer, but he would not have continued his career, de facto it was over a few years ago.

He left cause he was married to Gordys daughter and loyalty..not cause his head was swole thinking 40 million sold meant he was the second coming

Oh, come on,

this is not the best example, Jermaine always envied his brother's career, from early childhood.
He just could not hold a competition, because it's a different level of popularity, but he was always obsessed with a great success.
Yes, he did not have a complex of God because he never had godlike status, but his ambition has never matched his abilities and opportunities

I'm not buying that his marriage forced his hand. He did it on his own accord.

PatrickS77 said:

CANUHELPME said:

MJ could have used the Jacksons albums to experiment and work on new music between his solo albums. He was in charge. He could have performed small US tours (10 cities)with his brothers.

His worldwide dominance left him with legions of fans that only know his music after Thriller. To some he was only a video star.

The J5/Jacksons help create the superstar.

Why should he? Why would he want to do that? There was no real time between his albums anyway. He spent promoting and touring an album for 2,5 years after it's release. Besides he was building his solo career! Building an image of this outerworldly, worldwide, megastar, rising higher than anyone before him. The Jacksons didn't really have a part in that and would have hindered him and worked pretty much against that!

But like I said, after the trial, after recovering, he should have done something with them. Go full circle in a way.

Also I have to say, I do not sense that there was a really big desire in the family anyway! I mean, they released only 1 album without him. Jermaine stopped making music in '91 altogether. Why would/should he drag them along, when they are not willing (or not capable) to try anything on their own (they would be just baggage at that point)??

But again, for the record. I would have loved seeing them getting back together at one point. And their reunion at the 30th anniversary show was the highlight for me.

[Edited 12/29/11 9:15am]

Songs like Lovely One, This Place Hotel, and Be Not Always would not have been included on his solo albums. I think he could have released more creative music through the group.

He did not have to work with the hottest producer. He could have taken chances on a Jacksons album.

I understand you and many others love MJ the megastar. I just wish his die hard fans and Sony would embrace his entire career.

CANUHELPME said:

PatrickS77 said:

Why should he? Why would he want to do that? There was no real time between his albums anyway. He spent promoting and touring an album for 2,5 years after it's release. Besides he was building his solo career! Building an image of this outerworldly, worldwide, megastar, rising higher than anyone before him. The Jacksons didn't really have a part in that and would have hindered him and worked pretty much against that!

But like I said, after the trial, after recovering, he should have done something with them. Go full circle in a way.

Also I have to say, I do not sense that there was a really big desire in the family anyway! I mean, they released only 1 album without him. Jermaine stopped making music in '91 altogether. Why would/should he drag them along, when they are not willing (or not capable) to try anything on their own (they would be just baggage at that point)??

But again, for the record. I would have loved seeing them getting back together at one point. And their reunion at the 30th anniversary show was the highlight for me.

[Edited 12/29/11 9:15am]

Songs like Lovely One, This Place Hotel, and Be Not Always would not have been included on his solo albums. I think he could have released more creative music through the group.

He did not have to work with the hottest producer. He could have taken chances on a Jacksons album.

I understand you and many others love MJ the megastar. I just wish his die hard fans and Sony would embrace his entire career.

Have you not read what I've written?? I would have loved if he would have done something with his family again! I love all phases of his career. But at the same time, I do understand his decision of wanting to become his own boss, without having to deal with 5 brothers and do not view his departure as a mistake. I think it was the right decision at the time to leave and do the things he wanted to do. I wish though that later on, after HIStory, which kinda was the end of an era (a highpoint at that), he would have done something with his brothers again.

Timmy84 said:

It ain't really the thought of them doing anything together again, it's the thought of them doing something together - and NOT doing it because "something came up".

How many times have they promised people there was gonna be a reunion only for it to NOT come into forewishing. So while people are debating why others are upset about this, believe me, they can do what the hell they want to do, I mean they DO have a legacy and shit BUT they still could've continued on as "The Jacksons" after Michael and Marlon left, Jackie, Tito and Randy could've still pushed the Jacksons into the 1990s.

It was their unrealistic thought that they would be treated the same as their brother, plus the arrival of Janet as a pop star also made them nervous. By 1990, they were already calling it quits. It was like they gave up or the industry just didn't want to do anything with them anymore because "you're not as good as Michael".

I just don't know how to feel about any of this. Especially if they don't do it. That means you're saying something and not following it up. And the family history is so difficult it's easy to say that so and so should've reunited with them early but who knows? We don't live with them so how would we know what was supposed to happen?

Hate making essays about this, but yeah.

Sony dropped them after 2300 Jackson Street

bboy87 said:

Timmy84 said:

It ain't really the thought of them doing anything together again, it's the thought of them doing something together - and NOT doing it because "something came up".

How many times have they promised people there was gonna be a reunion only for it to NOT come into forewishing. So while people are debating why others are upset about this, believe me, they can do what the hell they want to do, I mean they DO have a legacy and shit BUT they still could've continued on as "The Jacksons" after Michael and Marlon left, Jackie, Tito and Randy could've still pushed the Jacksons into the 1990s.

It was their unrealistic thought that they would be treated the same as their brother, plus the arrival of Janet as a pop star also made them nervous. By 1990, they were already calling it quits. It was like they gave up or the industry just didn't want to do anything with them anymore because "you're not as good as Michael".

I just don't know how to feel about any of this. Especially if they don't do it. That means you're saying something and not following it up. And the family history is so difficult it's easy to say that so and so should've reunited with them early but who knows? We don't live with them so how would we know what was supposed to happen?

Hate making essays about this, but yeah.

Sony dropped them after 2300 Jackson Street

I wonder how long their Sony/CBS contract was.

rdhull said:

Timmy84 said:

Well Mary Wilson thought they were "sisters". But still the Jacksons are a group as well as a family. There's always two sides or three sides to a story. We can't always hear one story and take it as face value. Remember Jermaine also left the brothers too.

He left cause he was married to Gordys daughter and loyalty..not cause his head was swole thinking 40 million sold meant he was the second coming

Michael didn't leave the group because of his ego, he left because the decisions the family was making was becoming troublesome along with the infighting.

Michael signed on to Victory before Thriller was even done. He had written songs with Marlon, Jackie, and Randy. It was when Jermaine came back and the whole tour thing started back up was when trouble began and prompted Michael and Marlon to leave

2300 Jackson Street was done by Randy, Jackie, Tito, and Randy. I love the brothers' music but they couldn't get along throughout the sessions, especially Jackie and Jermaine and the album flopped, prompting CBS to drop them the following year