Edit: Niteline WAS considered for Thriller. The way Jeff worded it, I was under the impression that it wasn't. Here's what Glenn Ballard, writer of the record, had to say...

Why does the Estate feel the need to "remix" what's left in the vaults? If they want to do that, fine. But then at least give us the mixes as they were left also, even if unfinished.

I don't have any faith in this Estate when it comes to the music.

Why on earth has "Michael" got so many positive reviews on Amazon?

I seriously do not understand this. Will Michael Jackson fans praise anything with his name on it? Does it not matter to these people that Michael has been betrayed by people who were supposed to be his friends (Cascios, Teddy Riley) and trusted associates (Branca)?

In the early 2000s, Ozzy Osbourne re-released two of his classic early 80s albums, and to avoid having to pay his old band for their contributions, he got session musicians to re-record the backing music. The fans were outaged and if you look on Amazon.com, out of the 230 reviews on the site, an overwhelming 145 fans have protested against this by giving the album one star out of five. See for yourself: http://www.amazon.com/Bli...Descending

Those are fans who CARE about integrity and authenticity. Why don't MJ fans care about this? Do they not realise that the only way the estate will listen is if the fans stand against what they have done?

FANS WHO CARE ABOUT THE FUTURE OF MICHAEL'S UNRELEASED MATERIAL SHOULD LET THEIR VOICES BE HEARD ON AMAZON.COM.

There are only 21 one star reviews for Michael on Amazon (one of them is me) and a shocking 135 five star reviews. Leave your one star review HERE: http://www.amazon.com/Mic...Descending

ViintageJunkiie said:

Edit: Niteline WAS considered for Thriller. The way Jeff worded it, I was under the impression that it wasn't. Here's what Glenn Ballard, writer of the record, had to say...

When I found out it wasn't going to be on there, I just said, I'll be on the next one and the truth is, I got on the next two, which cumulatively sold over 50 million. It turned out to be good karma. I feel that if Nite-Line had been on Thriller, I would never have written Man In The Mirror, which is an infinitely better song, and one of the best in my catalogue.

Nice executive decision! It fit more for the Pointer Sisters than it did Michael in my honest opinion.

Whenever I hear outtakes like Niteline and Trouble I always wonder to myself: Didn't MJ know when he was singing this that it wasn't that good?

Derek1984 said:

Whenever I hear outtakes like Niteline and Trouble I always wonder to myself: Didn't MJ know when he was singing this that it wasn't that good?

Whenever I hear his voice singing them, I know his heart wasn't in it. He sang it with gusto but I can tell he didn't feel it. It's kinda like Marvin when he did some of his '60s records. His heart wasn't in some of them either but he sounded as if he wanted to. It's all about gusto... but if the heart's not in it, you can tell. It seems he liked "Niteline", "Trouble" and "Carousel" but in the back of his mind, he knew those songs were "too corny" for Thriller and that's why all three songs were taken out. "Carousel" probably sounded too Jackson 5-ish for him...

Well I love Carousal... soooo yeas mjscarousal always and forever

Timmy84 said:

Derek1984 said:

Whenever I hear outtakes like Niteline and Trouble I always wonder to myself: Didn't MJ know when he was singing this that it wasn't that good?

Whenever I hear his voice singing them, I know his heart wasn't in it. He sang it with gusto but I can tell he didn't feel it. It's kinda like Marvin when he did some of his '60s records. His heart wasn't in some of them either but he sounded as if he wanted to. It's all about gusto... but if the heart's not in it, you can tell. It seems he liked "Niteline", "Trouble" and "Carousel" but in the back of his mind, he knew those songs were "too corny" for Thriller and that's why all three songs were taken out. "Carousel" probably sounded too Jackson 5-ish for him...

Here is the original track list for Thriller before the changes.

1. Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'

2. Hot Street

3. The Girl Is Mine

4. Thriller

5. Billie Jean

6. She's Trouble

7. Nite-Line

8. Carousel

9. The Lady in my Life

Anybody know anything about this track called Remember This Night? I think it was recorded around the Thriller era...

ViintageJunkiie said:

Timmy84 said:

Whenever I hear his voice singing them, I know his heart wasn't in it. He sang it with gusto but I can tell he didn't feel it. It's kinda like Marvin when he did some of his '60s records. His heart wasn't in some of them either but he sounded as if he wanted to. It's all about gusto... but if the heart's not in it, you can tell. It seems he liked "Niteline", "Trouble" and "Carousel" but in the back of his mind, he knew those songs were "too corny" for Thriller and that's why all three songs were taken out. "Carousel" probably sounded too Jackson 5-ish for him...

Here is the original track list for Thriller before the changes.

1. Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' funk

2. Hot Street pop/lite funk

3. The Girl Is Mine pop

4. Thriller funk

5. Billie Jean funk/R&B

6. She's Trouble pop

7. Nite-Line pop

8. Carousel R&B

9. The Lady in my Life R&B

This is why Michael and Quincy went back and redid the entire album!

The album followed in the same EXACT path as Off the Wall and Michael/Quincy didn't want a repeat. "Beat It", "Human Nature", "Baby Be Mine" and the second known version of "Pretty Young Thing" were recorded right after investigating the album...

[Edited 12/19/11 12:16pm]

silverchild said:

Swa said:

Agreed - but sony want a return for their investment and won't blow their load with one box set.

I sure can tell, considering they haven't put out a quality release since Mike's death. But Sony are losers anyway. What about all these rarities they put out for folks like Dylan and Springsteen? If they were gone today, they would be putting out damn near their entire vault material. It perplexes me what is going on with Michael's estate because like someone said in an earlier thread, it seems as if Michael's legacy is just becoming watered down by video games, videos, books and other memorabilia. What about the vaults?

[Edited 12/18/11 22:51pm]

Motown has put out two quality CDs since his passing: J5 - I Want You Back Unreleased Masters and J5 - Live At the Form. There is very little discussion on this site about those CDs. The live version of I Wanna Be Where You Are is a classic.

Michael's legacy is watered down because his so call die hard fans and Sony ignore the Jacksons years. I think a remastered deluxe edition of his Jackson CDs should be released. Are there any unreleased tracks from Gamble and Huff? Are there unreleased Victory tracks written by Michael and Jermaine. Where are the unreleased Triumph and Destiny tracks? Many fans on this site want the Bad tour released. What about the Victory tour?

The Jackson 5 and The Jacksons years created the superstar.

Derek1984 said:

Anybody know anything about this track called Remember This Night? I think it was recorded around the Thriller era...

Remember This Night was written by Michael and McCartney around 1981-82. Not sure if it was recorded for inclusion for Thriller.

Timmy84 said:

ViintageJunkiie said:

Here is the original track list for Thriller before the changes.

1. Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' funk

2. Hot Street pop/lite funk

3. The Girl Is Mine pop

4. Thriller funk

5. Billie Jean funk/R&B

6. She's Trouble pop

7. Nite-Line pop

8. Carousel R&B

9. The Lady in my Life R&B

This is why Michael and Quincy went back and redid the entire album!

The album followed in the same EXACT path as Off the Wall and Michael/Quincy didn't want a repeat. "Beat It", "Human Nature", "Baby Be Mine" and the second known version of "Pretty Young Thing" were recorded right after investigating the album...

[Edited 12/19/11 12:16pm]

I'm going to put the album in the original order (Replacing Billie Jean with one of the earlier versions) and see how it sounds

ViintageJunkiie said:

Timmy84 said:

This is why Michael and Quincy went back and redid the entire album!

The album followed in the same EXACT path as Off the Wall and Michael/Quincy didn't want a repeat. "Beat It", "Human Nature", "Baby Be Mine" and the second known version of "Pretty Young Thing" were recorded right after investigating the album...

[Edited 12/19/11 12:16pm]

I'm going to put the album in the original order (Replacing Billie Jean with one of the earlier versions) and see how it sounds

I bet it sounds like Off the Wall Pt. 2.

Timmy84 said:

ViintageJunkiie said:

I'm going to put the album in the original order (Replacing Billie Jean with one of the earlier versions) and see how it sounds

I bet it sounds like Off the Wall Pt. 2.

I just arranged the list. Listening to WBSS now

^^ And with that tracklisting, it probably sells about the same as Off The Wall.

Derek1984 said:

^^ And with that tracklisting, it probably sells about the same as Off The Wall.

For starters, WBSS has a nice transistion into Hot Street. I never liked TGIM so I usually ignore it. I'm listening to Thriller now

ViintageJunkiie said:

bboy87 said:

That MJ Archives page is REALLY lively now I've been finding out a lot of info I never knew

Jeffery is really cool. I had the opportunity to talk with him earlier this week. Dude knows his stuff!

There was a discussion about the Triumph tour and he said:

a radio station in LA called Westwood One had a promo LP of a soundboard recording of the Triumph tour at the forum and would play it on the air and some copies were floating around

there are alternate edits of several videos like The Way You Make Me Feel, Bad, Thriller, Beat It, and Billie Jean

Michael recorded the Coca Cola theme song "I Want To Teach The Whole World To Sing" during the Dangerous sessions

KNOWLEDGE DROPPED

[img:$uid]http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvlm9qFi3Y1qc8eed.gif[/img:$uid]

I just sit and learn when I read that page

Yeah I saw him ost that too! My mouth dropped! It's so much material floating around just waiting to be uncovered

I had to go listen to the original Coca-Cola song and I was like "Yeah I know MJ was giving up the smelly jelly on his version"

Alternate edits of videos? I don't think I saw that but I sure do hope we get those! I just want Thriller...

when he said that, one of my first thoughts were "Muthafuckin VJ needs to go on the hunt for that damn promo LP!"

ViintageJunkiie said:

Derek1984 said:

^^ And with that tracklisting, it probably sells about the same as Off The Wall.

For starters, WBSS has a nice transistion into Hot Street. I never liked TGIM so I usually ignore it. I'm listening to Thriller now

You should use the 1981 version of The Girl Is Mine instead. See how it works

MattyJam said:

Why on earth has "Michael" got so many positive reviews on Amazon?

I seriously do not understand this. Will Michael Jackson fans praise anything with his name on it? Does it not matter to these people that Michael has been betrayed by people who were supposed to be his friends (Cascios, Teddy Riley) and trusted associates (Branca)?

In the early 2000s, Ozzy Osbourne re-released two of his classic early 80s albums, and to avoid having to pay his old band for their contributions, he got session musicians to re-record the backing music. The fans were outaged and if you look on Amazon.com, out of the 230 reviews on the site, an overwhelming 145 fans have protested against this by giving the album one star out of five. See for yourself: http://www.amazon.com/Bli...Descending

Those are fans who CARE about integrity and authenticity. Why don't MJ fans care about this? Do they not realise that the only way the estate will listen is if the fans stand against what they have done?

FANS WHO CARE ABOUT THE FUTURE OF MICHAEL'S UNRELEASED MATERIAL SHOULD LET THEIR VOICES BE HEARD ON AMAZON.COM.

There are only 21 one star reviews for Michael on Amazon (one of them is me) and a shocking 135 five star reviews. Leave your one star review HERE: http://www.amazon.com/Mic...Descending

I don't either. It's not a 5 star release, that's for sure. It's more of a 3 star one though

[Edited 12/19/11 13:24pm]

CANUHELPME said:

silverchild said:

I sure can tell, considering they haven't put out a quality release since Mike's death. But Sony are losers anyway. What about all these rarities they put out for folks like Dylan and Springsteen? If they were gone today, they would be putting out damn near their entire vault material. It perplexes me what is going on with Michael's estate because like someone said in an earlier thread, it seems as if Michael's legacy is just becoming watered down by video games, videos, books and other memorabilia. What about the vaults?

[Edited 12/18/11 22:51pm]

Motown has put out two quality CDs since his passing: J5 - I Want You Back Unreleased Masters and J5 - Live At the Form. There is very little discussion on this site about those CDs. The live version of I Wanna Be Where You Are is a classic.

Michael's legacy is watered down because his so call die hard fans and Sony ignore the Jacksons years. I think a remastered deluxe edition of his Jackson CDs should be released. Are there any unreleased tracks from Gamble and Huff? Are there unreleased Victory tracks written by Michael and Jermaine. Where are the unreleased Triumph and Destiny tracks? Many fans on this site want the Bad tour released. What about the Victory tour?

The Jackson 5 and The Jacksons years created the superstar.

A lot of people want the Victory Tour and unreleased Jacksons material released. Heck, I'd love to see the TRIUMPH TOUR released

bboy87 said:

ViintageJunkiie said:

Yeah I saw him ost that too! My mouth dropped! It's so much material floating around just waiting to be uncovered

I had to go listen to the original Coca-Cola song and I was like "Yeah I know MJ was giving up the smelly jelly on his version"

Alternate edits of videos? I don't think I saw that but I sure do hope we get those! I just want Thriller...

when he said that, one of my first thoughts were "Muthafuckin VJ needs to go on the hunt for that damn promo LP!"

I never even heard of the radio station but NOW I'mma look for it .. hell, if it still exists, I might stop by!

bboy87 said:

ViintageJunkiie said:

For starters, WBSS has a nice transistion into Hot Street. I never liked TGIM so I usually ignore it. I'm listening to Thriller now

You should use the 1981 version of The Girl Is Mine instead. See how it works

Niteline just went off. The album is pretty good in this order but it just........Damn, Carousel just came on and threw the whole damn mood off

ViintageJunkiie said:

bboy87 said:

You should use the 1981 version of The Girl Is Mine instead. See how it works

Niteline just went off. The album is pretty good in this order but it just........Damn, Carousel just came on and threw the whole damn mood off

I bet you reacted like Michael when he heard the playback.

Like "oh God this bullshit!" Then step aside, Quincy asks you "what's wrong?" And with a tear coming down your face, you're like "we gotta fix this shit!"

I still wonder how the REAL conversation went down between them.

Michael: "This album is some BULLSHIT."

Quincy: "What should we do though, Mike, the record is supposed to be out in two weeks!"

Michael: "Remake the fucking album and take some of that BULLSHIT off, call Rod, we gotta get our shit together, pronto!"

Timmy84 said:

ViintageJunkiie said:

Niteline just went off. The album is pretty good in this order but it just........Damn, Carousel just came on and threw the whole damn mood off

I bet you reacted like Michael when he heard the playback.

Like "oh God this bullshit!" Then step aside, Quincy asks you "what's wrong?" And with a tear coming down your face, you're like "we gotta fix this shit!"

I still wonder how the REAL conversation went down between them.

Michael: "This album is some BULLSHIT."

Quincy: "What should we do though, Mike, the record is supposed to be out in two weeks!"

Michael: "Remake the fucking album and take some of that BULLSHIT off, call Rod, we gotta get our shit together, pronto!"

You should've heard me! I said "OH GOT DAMN! Carousel stay fucking some shit up!" Dude, the songs turned me off so much just now. It just doesn't fit Thriller at all!

I bet Michael was like "Sha-mon! We gotta fix this album! You wanna see who's bad Quincy?! I'll show you who's bad! Come on!"

*Mike tosses him Beat It*

*Rod tosses Baby Be Mine*

*James Ingram tosses PYT*

*Toto tosses Human Nature*

MJ: Quincy, put that shit in order *walks out*

ViintageJunkiie said:

Timmy84 said:

I bet you reacted like Michael when he heard the playback.

Like "oh God this bullshit!" Then step aside, Quincy asks you "what's wrong?" And with a tear coming down your face, you're like "we gotta fix this shit!"

I still wonder how the REAL conversation went down between them.

Michael: "This album is some BULLSHIT."

Quincy: "What should we do though, Mike, the record is supposed to be out in two weeks!"

Michael: "Remake the fucking album and take some of that BULLSHIT off, call Rod, we gotta get our shit together, pronto!"

You should've heard me! I said "OH GOT DAMN! Carousel stay fucking some shit up!" Dude, the songs turned me off so much just now. It just doesn't fit Thriller at all!

I bet Michael was like "Sha-mon! We gotta fix this album! You wanna see who's bad Quincy?! I'll show you who's bad! Come on!"

*Mike tosses him Beat It*

*Rod tosses Baby Be Mine*

*James Ingram tosses PYT*

*Toto tosses Human Nature*

MJ: Quincy, put that shit in order *walks out*

In my gay black voice: YAAAAAAAAAAAAAS!

But seriously, yeah, that's probably how it went down. You could tell the difference. The original "Thriller" sounds lazy but the one that everyone bought, Michael and Toto and Quincy and Rod worked HARD AS HELL to put that together. Also "Human Nature" was, I believe, the LAST one to be recorded before the album was edited and mixed!

Judge approves pay bump for Jackson estate execs

By ANTHONY McCARTNEY | AP – 1 hr 59 mins ago

LOS ANGELES (AP) — A judge approved a pay bump Monday for the executors of Michael Jackson's estate who turned the debt-ridden singer's portfolio into a business that has earned hundreds of millions of dollars since his death.

Superior Court Judge Mitchell Beckloff allowed attorney John Branca and music executive John McClain to bill the estate separately for their professional services, which include entertainment-related legal counsel and use of a recording studio founded by Marvin Gaye.

Attorneys for Branca and McClain sought the change, saying the executors spend an increasing amount of time on Jackson's estate and have been paying legal expenses to Branca's firm out of their share of the earnings.

The men agreed in February 2010 to accept 10 percent of the gross entertainment-related earnings of the estate, minus money generated by Jackson's 50 percent interest in the Sony-ATV music catalog and earnings from "This Is It," a film compiled from the singer's final rehearsals.

The exclusions are huge revenue generators for the estate — the Sony-ATV catalog includes publishing rights to music by The Beatles, Elvis Presley, Bob Dylan and other stars. The executors also have been excluded an interest in Jackson's music, which has sold briskly since his death June 25 at age 50.

Since then, the estate has earned more than $310 million.

Branca and McClain have been earning closer to 7 percent of the estate's entertainment-related earnings, as the estate has become a "massive entertainment business enterprise," court filings state.

Branca and McClain said they are spending more time developing Jackson projects than anticipated, including music, video games and a touring Cirque-du-Soleil show that will eventually become a Las Vegas fixture.

Under the deal approved Monday, Branca's firm Ziffren Brittenham LLP will now receive 3 percent of entertainment-related income generated by Jackson's estate.

Estate attorney Howard Weitzman said the firm was performing work that would cost more than $2 million a year if it was being handled by another firm, and court filings state that a traditional entertainment estate would include additional managers and attorneys who would receive up to 30 percent of the estate's overall revenue.

There was no estimate for how much McClain's billings may be. He bought and restored Gaye's former Los Angeles studio in 1997, christening it Marvin's Room, and Jackson and other top singers have recorded music there.

The estate benefits Jackson's mother, Katherine, and the singer's three children, Prince, Paris and Blanket. They received an initial $30 million payment on the estate's proceeds earlier this year.

Attorneys for Katherine Jackson and the children had no objection to augmenting the compensation for Branca and McClain. Meg Lodise, who represents the children's interest, said, "It is quite clear that what they're proposing is going to be fair to the estate."

Weitzman told Beckloff that the estate has recently resolved creditors' claims worth at least $11 million and is working to resolve any other valid outstanding debts. Jackson died with an estimated $400 million in debts, but renewed interest in his music and career have fattened the estate's accounts, which listed $90 million in cash on hand in a September court filing.

http://news.yahoo.com/jud...33151.html

CANUHELPME said:

silverchild said:

I sure can tell, considering they haven't put out a quality release since Mike's death. But Sony are losers anyway. What about all these rarities they put out for folks like Dylan and Springsteen? If they were gone today, they would be putting out damn near their entire vault material. It perplexes me what is going on with Michael's estate because like someone said in an earlier thread, it seems as if Michael's legacy is just becoming watered down by video games, videos, books and other memorabilia. What about the vaults?

[Edited 12/18/11 22:51pm]

Motown has put out two quality CDs since his passing: J5 - I Want You Back Unreleased Masters and J5 - Live At the Form. There is very little discussion on this site about those CDs. The live version of I Wanna Be Where You Are is a classic.

Michael's legacy is watered down because his so call die hard fans and Sony ignore the Jacksons years. I think a remastered deluxe edition of his Jackson CDs should be released. Are there any unreleased tracks from Gamble and Huff? Are there unreleased Victory tracks written by Michael and Jermaine. Where are the unreleased Triumph and Destiny tracks? Many fans on this site want the Bad tour released. What about the Victory tour?

The Jackson 5 and The Jacksons years created the superstar.

I want those. You're not alone.

Timmy84 said:

ViintageJunkiie said:

You should've heard me! I said "OH GOT DAMN! Carousel stay fucking some shit up!" Dude, the songs turned me off so much just now. It just doesn't fit Thriller at all!

I bet Michael was like "Sha-mon! We gotta fix this album! You wanna see who's bad Quincy?! I'll show you who's bad! Come on!"

*Mike tosses him Beat It*

*Rod tosses Baby Be Mine*

*James Ingram tosses PYT*

*Toto tosses Human Nature*

MJ: Quincy, put that shit in order *walks out*

In my gay black voice: YAAAAAAAAAAAAAS!

But seriously, yeah, that's probably how it went down. You could tell the difference. The original "Thriller" sounds lazy but the one that everyone bought, Michael and Toto and Quincy and Rod worked HARD AS HELL to put that together. Also "Human Nature" was, I believe, the LAST one to be recorded before the album was edited and mixed!

It was a lot of pressure and a deadline to meet from Epic Records. He said this in his book

the music video for All In Your Name