mjscarousal said:

I think this is the best post in this thread by far....

I think the reason why Beyonce lacks creativity is because she doesnt know how to and she isnt a REAL artist. She is just a manufactured singer that has been use to doing the same things and doesnt want to change up in fear of backlash and losing her "it girl" status. She has been formulated and has been doing the same things since she was with DC. This is why to me she is just a black version of Brittany Spears except she can sing but me personally I feel Brittany Spears in her prime was a much better dancer than her.

Shes just a pretty face, wears pretty dresses, makes catchy music and has a clean image. I dont see anything special about that nore is that original or creative. I dont know I just view her as a robot. She doesnt seem sincere at all. All I get is she wants to be a legend and achieve alot of awards but lacks originality and creativity. She also seems to care more about looking sexy that showing personality in her wardrobe. Like seriously, the blonde hair, mermaid dresses and bathing suits ... its very old and boring. I wouldnt mine her as much if she didnt take herself so seriously like she is Bob Dylan or Stevie Wonder or something

What she fails to understand is popularity and quantity doesnt mean anything if the quality of the production is bland, trendy and boring. She thinks being overexposed is what makes you a legend when really it is the music and creativity. I hope that she understands that because if not she is her own fault to her own demise which has already showed itself these past 2 years. While I never understand her popularity, she peaked way to early to just be 30 and her overexposure, robotic personality and lackluster music is the result of that.

Looks and booty shaking cant take you but so far especially if that is all you are doing.. its boring.

[Edited 9/23/11 16:50pm]

RIGHT it is like Dolly Parton with her sex kitten persona and a little above average voice comparing herself to Babra Streisand. The thing is, Dolly would never do that. She doesn't take herself so serious. It is her attitude about herself as an artist being easy going and fun, that makes people love her. It is hard to appreciate people who think they are so grand and important... but unable to back it up. Like Prince... he thinks of himself artistically as musical guru.... but at least he can back it up with raw talent.

errant said:

Janet. If only because her peak coincided with the last era when being a star meant something. Beyonce's a big star. And I enjoy her to some extent. But fame is cheap these days.

[Edited 9/20/11 17:28pm]

Errant--I was thinking the exact same thing....remember back in the day waiting anxiously for awards shows or even seeing a celeb on some random TV special? I think Beyonce is just overexposed, boring and very predictable. In my opinion, I think she tries way too hard and exaggerates way too damn much. Janet was never overexposed and was wise for taking years off in between albums...you're right though, celebrity is cheap these days when you have "party crashers" "sex tape makers" and other folks having "fans"....I think some people are really gullible into thinking stuff is more serious than what it really is...

alphastreet said:

I didn't recognize Beyonce right away either in that picture, that was a really bad one posted, we all know she has better ones.

I think Janet will have a lot to say after what has happened with MJ and her family and people will want to hear a genuine and honest album, our generation will anyways, and she'll pick up new fans when she does. I love the way she is dressing right now in her ads and on the tour. I think people will respect her for being genuine in her music, but if it's all dancy and lovey-dovey without addressing it, I don't think people will buy it, and I mean that in every sense, it will come off as phony almost even if we fans know she always looks forward trying to repress pain.

Didn't recognize her with a nose job, bleach blonde hair and a questionably lighter skin tone....

Cinnamon234 said:

I'm not underestimating Janet AT ALL. I'm a big fan. I like her way better than Beyonce. I was a bit too young to remember Janet's mega success she during with "Rhythm Nation", but I remember how huge she was during "Janet" and beyond.

We all know Jan is more iconic and influential, but the U.S. is not the end all be all is all i'm saying. A lot of Janet fans seem to think that just b/c she's huge in the U.S. or was at one time means she was big all over and that's not the case.

And yes Janet gave MJ a run for his money absolutely, I agree. During the 90's and early 00's, she was bigger than MJ in the U.S., but I feel that Janet fans overestimate her international appeal.

I don't even think Beyonce has even reached her peak yet tbh, but as I said, in the U.S., Janet is bigger than Beyonce will ever be probably, but worldwide, I don't think you can say Janet is the clear winner.

People need to not only think in terms of the U.S. because outside of this Country, Beyonce is definitely giving Janet a run for her money in terms of success and popularity.

That was my whole point.

Wow Cinnamon, what do you base this on? I know this is a janet vs Bey thread, but I really wish you would come in and further explain. Because Dangerous was a huge success in the 90s. remember MJ's awesome MITM Grammy performance? The Huge Oprah interview's massive viewership - biggest in US history (at that time). Then the superbowl - largest SB audience in history, right?

Janet could not have pulled in such numbers.

Remember the premier of Black or White on main TV? MJ was the only artist that was honored so.

Now I remember Janet was given the biggest contract ever to a popstar (something like that) but a month or so later MJ topped it.

It was in the 90s that the Vanguard Award was named the MJ award. Also BET or Soultrain (forget which) named an award in MJ's honor.

History was also a huge seller. Did any of Janet's albums outsell MJ's in the 90's or 00's? Now I'll admit the media catered to her. But she was NEVER more popular. In fact, despite the slaughter by the media, after Thriller, no star was ever as big as MJ (not even in the US) imo. Cause Mike continued to pull in huge numbers. In 2001, the 30th anniversary viewership in the US was 27million! who else but MJ could do that? I remember janet's HBO concert special was something like 8 million. And madonna had one that was only 3 million.

Now in 00's AFY was a hit, but did it sell more than Invincible in the US? I'm asking cause I really don't know. But MJ was STILL aforded the premiere of YRMW on main TV. Janet or no one else was granted that honor.

And even during his trial and troubles during 2005 and beyond, MJ's back catalog still outsold his peers (madonna, Prince, Whitney) 3 to 1 in the US. And FAR surpassed Janet's. SO Just explain to me why do you think Janet was more popular than MJ? I really want to know how you determined that since I know you're a big fan of MJ and of Janet's. And whoever else could shed some light on this notion I'd appreciate it.

As far as Janet vs. Beyonce, Janet is/was bigger at her peak (RN) in US, but clearly Bey is HUGE outside of the US. Janet was never as big as Bey internationally - not even during RN.

[Edited 9/23/11 21:15pm]

I think everyone had a copy of Control and Rhythm Nation at that time. Also, nice to see mention of "Poetic Justice" - I don't think Beyonce has carried a movie as the star yet. As a kid, that movie seemed really deep and very well acted to me. Janet is all-around talented. I also like that she seemed to be more reserved and didn't let everyone know everything about her - we didn't even know that she was married at one point!

musicjunky318 said:

daPrettyman said:

What do u think? I don't think there are too many "creative" videos from Beyonce at all. They all look alike to me (even including the Destiny's Child videos).

I don't know. I'm 22. I wasn't alive duing Control, was months old when Rhythm Nation was going on, and was four during the Janet. era (1986-1994) which I guess would be represent the apex of her popularity right? I've obviously looked back at clips/footage from that time and know about the chart positions + sales and what not but it's a difference when you're physically there and old enough to truly follow it. Do you know what I mean?

yep ur probly like

mrsnet said:

Cinnamon234 said:

I'm not underestimating Janet AT ALL. I'm a big fan. I like her way better than Beyonce. I was a bit too young to remember Janet's mega success she during with "Rhythm Nation", but I remember how huge she was during "Janet" and beyond.

We all know Jan is more iconic and influential, but the U.S. is not the end all be all is all i'm saying. A lot of Janet fans seem to think that just b/c she's huge in the U.S. or was at one time means she was big all over and that's not the case.

And yes Janet gave MJ a run for his money absolutely, I agree. During the 90's and early 00's, she was bigger than MJ in the U.S., but I feel that Janet fans overestimate her international appeal.

I don't even think Beyonce has even reached her peak yet tbh, but as I said, in the U.S., Janet is bigger than Beyonce will ever be probably, but worldwide, I don't think you can say Janet is the clear winner.

People need to not only think in terms of the U.S. because outside of this Country, Beyonce is definitely giving Janet a run for her money in terms of success and popularity.

That was my whole point.

Wow Cinnamon, what do you base this on? I know this is a janet vs Bey thread, but I really wish you would come in and further explain. Because Dangerous was a huge success in the 90s. remember MJ's awesome MITM Grammy performance? The Huge Oprah interview's massive viewership - biggest in US history (at that time). Then the superbowl - largest SB audience in history, right?

Janet could not have pulled in such numbers.

Remember the premier of Black or White on main TV? MJ was the only artist that was honored so.

Now I remember Janet was given the biggest contract ever to a popstar (something like that) but a month or so later MJ topped it.

It was in the 90s that the Vanguard Award was named the MJ award. Also BET or Soultrain (forget which) named an award in MJ's honor.

History was also a huge seller. Did any of Janet's albums outsell MJ's in the 90's or 00's? Now I'll admit the media catered to her. But she was NEVER more popular. In fact, despite the slaughter by the media, after Thriller, no star was ever as big as MJ (not even in the US) imo. Cause Mike continued to pull in huge numbers. In 2001, the 30th anniversary viewership in the US was 27million! who else but MJ could do that? I remember janet's HBO concert special was something like 8 million. And madonna had one that was only 3 million.

Now in 00's AFY was a hit, but did it sell more than Invincible in the US? I'm asking cause I really don't know. But MJ was STILL aforded the premiere of YRMW on main TV. Janet or no one else was granted that honor.

And even during his trial and troubles during 2005 and beyond, MJ's back catalog still outsold his peers (madonna, Prince, Whitney) 3 to 1 in the US. And FAR surpassed Janet's. SO Just explain to me why do you think Janet was more popular than MJ? I really want to know how you determined that since I know you're a big fan of MJ and of Janet's. And whoever else could shed some light on this notion I'd appreciate it.

As far as Janet vs. Beyonce, Janet is/was bigger at her peak (RN) in US, but clearly Bey is HUGE outside of the US. Janet was never as big as Bey internationally - not even during RN.

[Edited 9/23/11 21:15pm]

I know it was for cinammon and I'm also a huge fan of the two, but I also agree that MJ was way bigger than Janet in the early 90's and even during HIStory from what I remember. I knew more people that appreciated him than Janet though when the Janet eras were happening, people were feeling her,during janet. mostly among all ages, and Velvet Rope for those a little older than me at the time. I think she was appreciated for singles the most when they were on the radio, but I loved her for who she was and felt she was so underrated. It was media who would call her the normal Jackson and all that, when in reality, michael was still outselling her internationally. HIStory even outsold Velvet Rope. All For You outsold Invincible though(in the US, not worldwide), although pulling 2 million considering the lack of promo and Sony refusing to ship more copies is great. Janet pulled 1.5 or so with one single and started approaching 2 million with STCML, so just imagine if he kept putting out more....I was totally looking forward to the competition!!!!

Janet. actualy sold more than Dangerous and though I know it was a very popular era(in the US, not worldwide), I didn't know any songs from it until 95' (it's possible I could have heard them and not known) though I sometimes heard her name during the era though I didn't know a thing about her yet aside from Poetic Justice and being related to MJ. I didn't know everything MJ put out during Dangerous when happening, but I stayed up for the Black or White premiere and Will You Be There was very popular late summer. The Oprah interview was talked about too from what I remember, my mom borrowed a tape with it from my aunt when it aired, and I'm just like "no way a man singing like that sounds like THAT" though I just remember it in flashes from that time, back then I had no regard for watching people talk on tv no matter who they were, I just wanted music and video games But I'm glad I eventually listened to it again a few years later

Oh and the grammy performance was from the 80's and so was the video vanguard award renaming, I think they dropped it in the 90's. The first BET awards aired in 2002, so maybe it was named then, can't recall.....I'm glad it was renamed though, better than than never.

One time I was trying to get rid of Janet tickets for a show cause I scored a better deal last minute, and a few people said to me, and this is before his death, if it was Michael they would have snapped them up. Sure it meant they were unaware of her work, but that supports what you are saying about his continued success in sales despite controversy.

[Edited 9/24/11 0:16am]

Beyonce is bigger worldwide unfortunately – she has had tons of number ones outside the US and has played in stadiums and arenas all over the world.

But the scene is so much different to it was when Janet was top of her game. R&B was not as mainstream as it is now – and apart from Whitney, Janet was the only black female artist having hits outside the US in her peak. Even Mariah (until Music box) and Paula weren’t as huge as Kylie and Madonna when they were selling in the states – just scoring a top ten hit here and there. Nowadays it’s easy for minor stars like Ciara and Keri Hilson to get worldwide hits because the genre has become so mainstream.

I remember when Trevor Nelson was speaking about Jade’s hit “Don’t walk away” - he said it was was unheard of for a r&b song to get into the top ten of the UK charts and the fact that it reached #8 was a huge accomplishment that he thought of it as number a one song.

Also my cousin used to go to her local record stores to ask if they had R Kelly's 12 play album in stock - they thought she was making the artist up because no one had heard of him. Yet it was 6x platnium in America at the time.

So much different back then.

mancabdriver said:

Beyonce is bigger worldwide unfortunately – she has had tons of number ones outside the US and has played in stadiums and arenas all over the world.

But the scene is so much different to it was when Janet was top of her game. R&B was not as mainstream as it is now – and apart from Whitney, Janet was the only black female artist having hits outside the US in her peak. Even Mariah (until Music box) and Paula weren’t as huge as Kylie and Madonna when they were selling in the states – just scoring a top ten hit here and there. Nowadays it’s easy for minor stars like Ciara and Keri Hilson to get worldwide hits because the genre has become so mainstream.

I remember when Trevor Nelson was speaking about Jade’s hit “Don’t walk away” - he said it was was unheard of for a r&b song to get into the top ten of the UK charts and the fact that it reached #8 was a huge accomplishment that he thought of it as number a one song.

Also my cousin used to go to her local record stores to ask if they had R Kelly's 12 play album in stock - they thought she was making the artist up because no one had heard of him. Yet it was 6x platnium in America at the time.

So much different back then.

So has Janet. In her prime, she was selling out the Aloha Stadium in Hawaii. She was breaking records for fastest sellout of the Tokyo Dome (a record that still stands). She played huge venues everywhere from Asia and Europe to Africa and Australia--nevermind the US and Canada.

SEANMAN said:

mancabdriver said:

Beyonce is bigger worldwide unfortunately – she has had tons of number ones outside the US and has played in stadiums and arenas all over the world.

But the scene is so much different to it was when Janet was top of her game. R&B was not as mainstream as it is now – and apart from Whitney, Janet was the only black female artist having hits outside the US in her peak. Even Mariah (until Music box) and Paula weren’t as huge as Kylie and Madonna when they were selling in the states – just scoring a top ten hit here and there. Nowadays it’s easy for minor stars like Ciara and Keri Hilson to get worldwide hits because the genre has become so mainstream.

I remember when Trevor Nelson was speaking about Jade’s hit “Don’t walk away” - he said it was was unheard of for a r&b song to get into the top ten of the UK charts and the fact that it reached #8 was a huge accomplishment that he thought of it as number a one song.

Also my cousin used to go to her local record stores to ask if they had R Kelly's 12 play album in stock - they thought she was making the artist up because no one had heard of him. Yet it was 6x platnium in America at the time.

So much different back then.

So has Janet. In her prime, she was selling out the Aloha Stadium in Hawaii. She was breaking records for fastest sellout of the Tokyo Dome (a record that still stands). She played huge venues everywhere from Asia and Europe to Africa and Australia--nevermind the US and Canada.

Not to be a bother, but Hawaii is still the US.

smoothcriminal12 said:

SEANMAN said:

So has Janet. In her prime, she was selling out the Aloha Stadium in Hawaii. She was breaking records for fastest sellout of the Tokyo Dome (a record that still stands). She played huge venues everywhere from Asia and Europe to Africa and Australia--nevermind the US and Canada.

Not to be a bother, but Hawaii is still the US.

Where in my post did i mention that Janet has not sold out stadiums and arenas outside the US?

smoothcriminal12 said:

SEANMAN said:

So has Janet. In her prime, she was selling out the Aloha Stadium in Hawaii. She was breaking records for fastest sellout of the Tokyo Dome (a record that still stands). She played huge venues everywhere from Asia and Europe to Africa and Australia--nevermind the US and Canada.

Not to be a bother, but Hawaii is still the US.

I know. I just meant that she has sold out stadiums before.

mancabdriver said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Not to be a bother, but Hawaii is still the US.

Where in my post did i mention that Janet has not sold out stadiums and arenas outside the US?

When you said "Beyonce has played in stadiums and arenas all over the world," it read as though Janet hasn't.

SEANMAN said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Not to be a bother, but Hawaii is still the US.

I know. I just meant that she has sold out stadiums before.

Oh. I though you were using that as an example of her selling out stadiums worldwide. I was thinking "awkward...".

mancabdriver said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Not to be a bother, but Hawaii is still the US.

Where in my post did i mention that Janet has not sold out stadiums and arenas outside the US?

The first sentence: Beyonce is bigger worldwide unfortunately lol that's why Sean wrote what he did lol

Timmy84 said:

mancabdriver said:

Where in my post did i mention that Janet has not sold out stadiums and arenas outside the US?

The first sentence: Beyonce is bigger worldwide unfortunately lol that's why Sean wrote what he did lol

I'm also aware that Janet has had some #1 outside the US too

mancabdriver said:

Beyonce is bigger worldwide unfortunately – she has had tons of number ones outside the US and has played in stadiums and arenas all over the world.

But the scene is so much different to it was when Janet was top of her game. R&B was not as mainstream as it is now – and apart from Whitney, Janet was the only black female artist having hits outside the US in her peak. Even Mariah (until Music box) and Paula weren’t as huge as Kylie and Madonna when they were selling in the states – just scoring a top ten hit here and there. Nowadays it’s easy for minor stars like Ciara and Keri Hilson to get worldwide hits because the genre has become so mainstream.

I remember when Trevor Nelson was speaking about Jade’s hit “Don’t walk away” - he said it was was unheard of for a r&b song to get into the top ten of the UK charts and the fact that it reached #8 was a huge accomplishment that he thought of it as number a one song.

Also my cousin used to go to her local record stores to ask if they had R Kelly's 12 play album in stock - they thought she was making the artist up because no one had heard of him. Yet it was 6x platnium in America at the time.

So much different back then.

I dunno you contradict yourself... You say that you know Janet has sold out stadiums worldwide as well as hits but say Beyonce is bigger worldwide???? With that statement you did imply Janet has not when she has in fact done those things. She has hits outside of US and in the US. She has played in sold out arenas around the world

Like another poster said above if anything they are about the same WORLDWIDE. Internationally AT THE MOMENT yea Beyonce is bigger being she is a current artist now. But with that biased over zealous statement you imply Beyonce has reached a level in comparision to other megamega stars and no that is not true...

LOL Im laughing because yall are painting Beyonce as if she has the same status the Beatles and that is not true.

mjscarousal said:

mancabdriver said:

Beyonce is bigger worldwide unfortunately – she has had tons of number ones outside the US and has played in stadiums and arenas all over the world.

But the scene is so much different to it was when Janet was top of her game. R&B was not as mainstream as it is now – and apart from Whitney, Janet was the only black female artist having hits outside the US in her peak. Even Mariah (until Music box) and Paula weren’t as huge as Kylie and Madonna when they were selling in the states – just scoring a top ten hit here and there. Nowadays it’s easy for minor stars like Ciara and Keri Hilson to get worldwide hits because the genre has become so mainstream.

I remember when Trevor Nelson was speaking about Jade’s hit “Don’t walk away” - he said it was was unheard of for a r&b song to get into the top ten of the UK charts and the fact that it reached #8 was a huge accomplishment that he thought of it as number a one song.

Also my cousin used to go to her local record stores to ask if they had R Kelly's 12 play album in stock - they thought she was making the artist up because no one had heard of him. Yet it was 6x platnium in America at the time.

So much different back then.

I dunno you contradict yourself... You say that you know Janet has sold out stadiums worldwide as well as hits but say Beyonce is bigger worldwide???? With that statement you did imply Janet has not when she has in fact done those things. She has hits outside of US and in the US. She has played in sold out arenas around the world

Like another poster said above if anything they are about the same WORLDWIDE. Internationally AT THE MOMENT yea Beyonce is bigger being she is a current artist now. But with that biased over zealous statement you imply Beyonce has reached a level in comparision to other megamega stars and no that is not true...

LOL Im laughing because yall are painting Beyonce as if she has the same status the Beatles and that is not true.

I think i explained myself quite clearly but ill try again to make you understand my point.

- Beyonce has had more hits outside the US than Janet did in her peak.

- She has headlined festivals like Glastonbury in the UK and made front pages of the newspapers all over the world when she did. The first woman to do that - I could never imagine doing a high profile gig like that during the janet era.

-More people outside the US know her hits, videos, films etc...

- She is a media darling across the world - she does a shit and it would be on the front pages of newspapers across the world.

BUT

- Times were different for R&B artists when Janet was at her peak.

- It was harder for black r&b artists in general to get commercial success outside the US

- But Janet managed to do that - not have as many #1s like Rihanna and Beyonce - but still managed to do well given the circumstances of the period she was a big star.

- So what im trying to say is if you compare their success' - you will have to consider the time they were at the peak rather than just looking at chart positions, album sales.

- I assume you live in the US - so you will find it hard to grasp beyonce's and janet's staus across the world - i'm pretty sure other people outside the US will agree with me

- Finally i'd like to add that im huge janet fan and wished she had a hundred times more success than Beyonce who i don't care for but i'm trying to be objective and take all things into consideration when answering the question the original poster asked.

Guys from the I am tour they were filming the audience in different countries? if so she's is pretty big worldwide if there lots of dmeand to play stadium out there

[Edited 9/24/11 9:58am]

oh i think beyonce's peak was the single ladies phenomonem

[Edited 9/24/11 10:01am]

mancabdriver said:

mjscarousal said:

I dunno you contradict yourself... You say that you know Janet has sold out stadiums worldwide as well as hits but say Beyonce is bigger worldwide???? With that statement you did imply Janet has not when she has in fact done those things. She has hits outside of US and in the US. She has played in sold out arenas around the world

Like another poster said above if anything they are about the same WORLDWIDE. Internationally AT THE MOMENT yea Beyonce is bigger being she is a current artist now. But with that biased over zealous statement you imply Beyonce has reached a level in comparision to other megamega stars and no that is not true...

LOL Im laughing because yall are painting Beyonce as if she has the same status the Beatles and that is not true.

I think i explained myself quite clearly but ill try again to make you understand my point.

- Beyonce has had more hits outside the US than Janet did in her peak.

- She has headlined festivals like Glastonbury in the UK and made front pages of the newspapers all over the world when she did. The first woman to do that - I could never imagine doing a high profile gig like that during the janet era.

-More people outside the US know her hits, videos, films etc...

- She is a media darling across the world - she does a shit and it would be on the front pages of newspapers across the world.

BUT

- Times were different for R&B artists when Janet was at her peak.

- It was harder for black r&b artists in general to get commercial success outside the US

- But Janet managed to do that - not have as many #1s like Rihanna and Beyonce - but still managed to do well given the circumstances of the period she was a big star.

- So what im trying to say is if you compare their success' - you will have to consider the time they were at the peak rather than just looking at chart positions, album sales.

- I assume you live in the US - so you will find it hard to grasp beyonce's and janet's staus across the world - i'm pretty sure other people outside the US will agree with me

- Finally i'd like to add that im huge janet fan and wished she had a hundred times more success than Beyonce who i don't care for but i'm trying to be objective and take all things into consideration when answering the question the original poster asked.

The second part of your responce I agree with.

However the bolded I think is all opinion based because Janet was very popular in the 90's. Your not giving her a whole lot of credit as far as her popularity and giving Beyonce way to much. She is an international star but she is not popular GLOBALLY like a star like MJ or the Beatles are like you are implying as if Janet could not headline that show during her peak when she was competing with her own brother MICHAEL JACKSON for alot of things and exactly succeeding ABOVE him in some things during her peak... thats laughable but I see that is just your opinion.

[Edited 9/24/11 10:05am]

Timmy84 said:

mancabdriver said:

Where in my post did i mention that Janet has not sold out stadiums and arenas outside the US?

The first sentence: Beyonce is bigger worldwide unfortunately lol that's why Sean wrote what he did lol

That is so true about Whitney and Janet being the two big black females worldwide, I almost forgot about that but it rang true in the 90's as well as the 80's, and Mariah being in that group after Music Box as someone said. I wonder if the three experimenting with hip hop in their music contributed to introducing those overseas to what is everywhere now....

I'm sure before them though, Diana Ross was a bigger worldwide star.

[Edited 9/24/11 14:01pm]

alphastreet said:

That is so true about Whitney and Janet being the two big black females worldwide, I almost forgot about that but it rang true in the 90's as well as the 80's, and Mariah being in that group after Music Box as someone said. I wonder if the three experimenting with hip hop in their music contributed to introducing those overseas to what is everywhere now....

I'm sure before them though, Diana Ross was a bigger worldwide star.

[Edited 9/24/11 14:01pm]

I think Tina was\is\always will be bigger.

Maybe someone will start the next pair to compare?

prodigalfan said:

mjscarousal said:

I think this is the best post in this thread by far....

I think the reason why Beyonce lacks creativity is because she doesnt know how to and she isnt a REAL artist. She is just a manufactured singer that has been use to doing the same things and doesnt want to change up in fear of backlash and losing her "it girl" status. She has been formulated and has been doing the same things since she was with DC. This is why to me she is just a black version of Brittany Spears except she can sing but me personally I feel Brittany Spears in her prime was a much better dancer than her.

Shes just a pretty face, wears pretty dresses, makes catchy music and has a clean image. I dont see anything special about that nore is that original or creative. I dont know I just view her as a robot. She doesnt seem sincere at all. All I get is she wants to be a legend and achieve alot of awards but lacks originality and creativity. She also seems to care more about looking sexy that showing personality in her wardrobe. Like seriously, the blonde hair, mermaid dresses and bathing suits ... its very old and boring. I wouldnt mine her as much if she didnt take herself so seriously like she is Bob Dylan or Stevie Wonder or something

What she fails to understand is popularity and quantity doesnt mean anything if the quality of the production is bland, trendy and boring. She thinks being overexposed is what makes you a legend when really it is the music and creativity. I hope that she understands that because if not she is her own fault to her own demise which has already showed itself these past 2 years. While I never understand her popularity, she peaked way to early to just be 30 and her overexposure, robotic personality and lackluster music is the result of that.

Looks and booty shaking cant take you but so far especially if that is all you are doing.. its boring.

[Edited 9/23/11 16:50pm]

RIGHT it is like Dolly Parton with her sex kitten persona and a little above average voice comparing herself to Babra Streisand. The thing is, Dolly would never do that. She doesn't take herself so serious. It is her attitude about herself as an artist being easy going and fun, that makes people love her. It is hard to appreciate people who think they are so grand and important... but unable to back it up. Like Prince... he thinks of himself artistically as musical guru.... but at least he can back it up with raw talent.

Also, she sings from the heart. I am not a country music fan, but there are certain songs she has sang that sometimes make you tear up. Country music today seems to be more watered down with rock and pop.

mrsnet said:

Cinnamon234 said:

I'm not underestimating Janet AT ALL. I'm a big fan. I like her way better than Beyonce. I was a bit too young to remember Janet's mega success she during with "Rhythm Nation", but I remember how huge she was during "Janet" and beyond.

We all know Jan is more iconic and influential, but the U.S. is not the end all be all is all i'm saying. A lot of Janet fans seem to think that just b/c she's huge in the U.S. or was at one time means she was big all over and that's not the case.

And yes Janet gave MJ a run for his money absolutely, I agree. During the 90's and early 00's, she was bigger than MJ in the U.S., but I feel that Janet fans overestimate her international appeal.

I don't even think Beyonce has even reached her peak yet tbh, but as I said, in the U.S., Janet is bigger than Beyonce will ever be probably, but worldwide, I don't think you can say Janet is the clear winner.

People need to not only think in terms of the U.S. because outside of this Country, Beyonce is definitely giving Janet a run for her money in terms of success and popularity.

That was my whole point.

Wow Cinnamon, what do you base this on? I know this is a janet vs Bey thread, but I really wish you would come in and further explain. Because Dangerous was a huge success in the 90s. remember MJ's awesome MITM Grammy performance? The Huge Oprah interview's massive viewership - biggest in US history (at that time). Then the superbowl - largest SB audience in history, right?

Janet could not have pulled in such numbers.

Remember the premier of Black or White on main TV? MJ was the only artist that was honored so.

Now I remember Janet was given the biggest contract ever to a popstar (something like that) but a month or so later MJ topped it.

It was in the 90s that the Vanguard Award was named the MJ award. Also BET or Soultrain (forget which) named an award in MJ's honor.

History was also a huge seller. Did any of Janet's albums outsell MJ's in the 90's or 00's? Now I'll admit the media catered to her. But she was NEVER more popular. In fact, despite the slaughter by the media, after Thriller, no star was ever as big as MJ (not even in the US) imo. Cause Mike continued to pull in huge numbers. In 2001, the 30th anniversary viewership in the US was 27million! who else but MJ could do that? I remember janet's HBO concert special was something like 8 million. And madonna had one that was only 3 million.

Now in 00's AFY was a hit, but did it sell more than Invincible in the US? I'm asking cause I really don't know. But MJ was STILL aforded the premiere of YRMW on main TV. Janet or no one else was granted that honor.

And even during his trial and troubles during 2005 and beyond, MJ's back catalog still outsold his peers (madonna, Prince, Whitney) 3 to 1 in the US. And FAR surpassed Janet's. SO Just explain to me why do you think Janet was more popular than MJ? I really want to know how you determined that since I know you're a big fan of MJ and of Janet's. And whoever else could shed some light on this notion I'd appreciate it.

As far as Janet vs. Beyonce, Janet is/was bigger at her peak (RN) in US, but clearly Bey is HUGE outside of the US. Janet was never as big as Bey internationally - not even during RN.

[Edited 9/23/11 21:15pm]

What contract was this as far as Janet is concerned? I had no idea. I remembered MJ's estate has like an $200 million contract with Sony, and back in the day he had another maybe $200 million plus contract with them.

I would have to say that Beyonce is the bigger star at her peak, and her peak is within the last five years, maybe. Though both artists came up at their peak in different eras, and both artists are talented and pretty, Beyonce has more endorsements and promotions than Janet could ever dream of. Based on these two factors, she's more internationally known.

I live for Janet but Beyonce hands down. Single ladies was an epidemic.

Janet had Three Peaks in her career: Control era , Rhythm Nation era, and the time frame Between Janet era and Velve Rope era. All never reaching the height of single ladies

Much of Janet's success was from the coattails of her brother. Don't sit here and act like it's not true.

Now Janet's Longevity is another story, Janet wins hand down in this category.

[Edited 9/24/11 16:29pm]

LiLi1992 said:

alphastreet said:

That is so true about Whitney and Janet being the two big black females worldwide, I almost forgot about that but it rang true in the 90's as well as the 80's, and Mariah being in that group after Music Box as someone said. I wonder if the three experimenting with hip hop in their music contributed to introducing those overseas to what is everywhere now....

I'm sure before them though, Diana Ross was a bigger worldwide star.

[Edited 9/24/11 14:01pm]

I think Tina was\is\always will be bigger.

Maybe someone will start the next pair to compare?

Definitely! After posting this, I realized I didn't mention Tina, but had to go

Beyonce's peak was from 2003 to 2009/10. Sure she is popular by name this year, but her chart placings aren't high anymore. And Single Ladies was big the way Macarena or Lambada was I'm sure, I don't believe Rhythm Nation was big like that worldwide though I do believe it was popular. Her family helped get her name out there, but she carved her own path and became her own entity.

formallypickles said:

I live for Janet but Beyonce hands down. Single ladies was an epidemic.

Janet had Three Peaks in her career: Control era , Rhythm Nation era, and the time frame Between Janet era and Velve Rope era. All never reaching the height of single ladies

Much of Janet's success was from the coattails of her brother. Don't sit here and act like it's not true.

Now Janet's Longevity is another story, Janet wins hand down in this category.

[Edited 9/24/11 16:29pm]

It's not true. She got her deal because of her name, true, but she found success 4 long years later. People knew she was Michael Jackson's sister when her debut album came out. People knew she was Michael Jackson's sister when Dream Street dropped. Success happened when she took control (pun intended) of her life and career. The stars aligned for that album, and it had nothing to do with Michael.