Marrk said:

Free2BMe said:

Amazing, just amazing. I knew that Michael could tap dance; however, I never knew that he could do it to THIS extent. Thank you so much to the person who posted this clip. This man, MJ, could do anything that he set his mind to-Pure Genius!

I'm amazed there are MJJ fans that haven't seen this stuff before. It's a pity this era gets neglected, or seems to.

I'm probably lonely on this but i'm of the opinion he was a far better dancer back then. Just more fluid, natural and loose. I'd take this over anything he choreographed after the BAD era.

No you're not alone in that. He definitely was a more natural dancer then...

^

What's with all the arguing mess here?

Every fanbase has a bunch of loonies. Michael's fanbase is just more intense because he's the biggest and well, because all he's gone through has made his fans more defensive than the average.

But for every loony, there are also many reasonable fans.

___

Gawd, I can't get excited over new videos now. It's not the same.

__

Mike's feet was born to dance. I remember watching this a long time ago and my jaw just dropping because his talent never ceases to amaze me.

[Edited 6/8/11 14:12pm]

Marrk said:

Free2BMe said:

Amazing, just amazing. I knew that Michael could tap dance; however, I never knew that he could do it to THIS extent. Thank you so much to the person who posted this clip. This man, MJ, could do anything that he set his mind to-Pure Genius!

I'm amazed there are MJJ fans that haven't seen this stuff before. It's a pity this era gets neglected, or seems to.

I'm probably lonely on this but i'm of the opinion he was a far better dancer back then. Just more fluid, natural and loose. I'd take this over anything he choreographed after the BAD era.

While I agree that his dancing became more stylized as he got older I can't agree with your last comment. With the exception of Smooth Criminal I think the Dangerous era choreography far surpasses the Bad era.

.

[Edited 6/10/11 2:44am]

scatwoman said:

Marrk said:

I'm amazed there are MJJ fans that haven't seen this stuff before. It's a pity this era gets neglected, or seems to.

I'm probably lonely on this but i'm of the opinion he was a far better dancer back then. Just more fluid, natural and loose. I'd take this over anything he choreographed after the BAD era.

While I agree that his dancing became more stylized as he got got older I can't agree with your last comment. With the exception of Smooth Criminal I think the Dangerous era choreography far surpasses the Bad era.

I loved his choreography during the Dangerous era. I agree it was much tighter than the Bad one.

Timmy84 said:

scatwoman said:

While I agree that his dancing became more stylized as he got got older I can't agree with your last comment. With the exception of Smooth Criminal I think the Dangerous era choreography far surpasses the Bad era.

I loved his choreography during the Dangerous era. I agree it was much tighter than the Bad one.

Both Scream and You Rock My World contain some fine moves too,

But Marrk is certainly right about the freedom and fluidity of Mike's dancing during the 70s. He was an absolute marvel.

http://www.articlesbase.com/music-articles/memories-with-the-groove-king-john-bhler-remembers-michael-jackson-4863332.html

Memories with the ‘Groove King': John Bähler remembers Michael Jackson

"The one thing I try to impress upon people is that Michael was the epitome of love. He was the most loving, kind human being I have ever met in my entire life."
– John Bähler (May 31, 2011)

DAYTON, Ohio – John Bähler is a composer, producer, songwriter and arranger. He and his brother Tom Bähler have been surrounded by music for most of their life. John said he's felt blessed to work with multiple artists throughout the years, but according to him, one person who will always stand out is Michael Jackson.

In 1972, John and Tom joined Motown Records as a team of arrangers. The Bählers worked with multiple groups at Motown, and among their musical list was the Jackson 5, [Jackie, Tito, Jermaine, Marlon and Michael]. "The Jacksons were the sweetest, quietest, humblest people I have ever met in my entire life," he said. "The boys in the group were all quiet, but once they hit the stage, it was like flipping on a switch." Despite their quiet personalities, John said they were a group of professionals, but remembers a time when they struggled to master a song arrangement.

"I can't remember what song we were doing, but the arrangement wasn't easy to sing," he said. "When it came time to record the song, the producer said I can't sing on the track with the group. So, I went into the back and turned on a figure-8 microphone. Only the boys, engineer and myself knew I was singing on the record."

John said he treasured his time with the group and always looked forward to working with them, and said he had great side-conversations with them. One of his memories involves a conversation with Michael around the age of 13. John said Michael approached him and asked him, "[Do] you know who the best dancer of the group is? Jackie. Jackie's the best dancer." John said when he asked him why Jackie doesn't move toward the front to dance, Michael said, "He's shy, so he makes me do it." Michael then told John that Jackie choreographed a lot of the group's dance routines while living in Gary, Ind.

Despite the Jackson 5 ending their Motown career in 1975, Michael, John and Tom remained close. John said a solid factor to their friendship was the fact that he and Tom treated Michael like a "normal human being." Throughout their years of working together, John said he was able to see a side of Michael that many knew of, but had never experienced first-hand. He said he was able to witness Michael create a melody and watch it evolve into a song over time.

John said he nicknamed Michael the "Groove King," because, "He came up with the most incredible grooves. He'd call me and we would go into the studio and do songs. He'd play one and it would walk you out of the room." According to John, Michael enjoyed creating infectious rhythms, but loved writing a wide variety of songs. He said Michael noted "Heal the World" as one of his favorite tracks. Knowing how highly Michael thought of the song, John said he takes pride in the fact that he wrote the vocal arrangement and directed the choir.

Michael's song "Heal the World" – the seventh song off his 1991 album Dangerous – was originally titled "Feed the World." Keyboardist David Paich first presented the song idea to John over the phone. John said he then went to Paich's home and recorded the chart arrangement. Though the song wasn't finished, he said Michael heard some of it and called him saying, "I did it again. I fell on my knees and wept."

When finalizing the arrangement and choir of the song, John said Michael was suppose to be present, but was sick with a cold and unavailable. According to John, they recorded the finished piece to play to Michael over the phone. "He flipped," John said. "[Michael] was in tears." John said without working on it every day, writing, arranging and finalizing the song took 6-7 months. He said from the time the song was originally titled "Feed the World," and then later changed to "Heal the World," several demos were recorded.

While thinking back through the years he spent in recording studios with him, John said Michael always looked up to him and saw him as a great singer and arranger. However, he said one of his favorite humorous times in the studio is when Michael heard him make a mistake. "I never put two headphones on when recording because the professionals have to hear themselves sing live," he said. "While [recording] parts of a song with Michael, I put both of my headphones on. All of the sudden, we heard this ugly vocal part. I took my headphones off and Michael yelled while laughing, ‘It was you. I can't believe it was you.' He couldn't believe he had actually heard me sounding rotten."

John said he considers his time spent with Michael as years he will never forget. According to him, he and Michael were always close. John said he remembers Michael calling him and Tom a lot while the Jackson 5 were touring. "He'd be so quiet on the phone, but loved talking," John said.

Marrk said:

Free2BMe said:

Amazing, just amazing. I knew that Michael could tap dance; however, I never knew that he could do it to THIS extent. Thank you so much to the person who posted this clip. This man, MJ, could do anything that he set his mind to-Pure Genius!

I'm amazed there are MJJ fans that haven't seen this stuff before. It's a pity this era gets neglected, or seems to.

I'm probably lonely on this but i'm of the opinion he was a far better dancer back then. Just more fluid, natural and loose. I'd take this over anything he choreographed after the BAD era.

The Michael Jackson from the mid seventies to the early eighties was a phenomenom, the definition of talent. During that point he was, to me, the best thing in the music scene. He was a prolific compositor, arranger and producer who did everything on his own (don't give me the siblings BS because I don't rate them). He'd release albums and albums every year. His voice was perfection: never has the mainstream music scene seen such thing and his dance steps were God-like. He was complete, excelling in every area. Definitely the best.

Then he started aiming to be the biggest and the rest is history. Had Jackson stayed this way and developed as a musician (which he was doing fantastically until he stoped after Thriller) and he would the up there with Stevie Wonder, Dylan and so on in terms of respect. And one of the best, if not the best in the business. But Jackson decided to N'sync his entire act: too bad.

Marrk said:

Free2BMe said:

Amazing, just amazing. I knew that Michael could tap dance; however, I never knew that he could do it to THIS extent. Thank you so much to the person who posted this clip. This man, MJ, could do anything that he set his mind to-Pure Genius!

I'm amazed there are MJJ fans that haven't seen this stuff before. It's a pity this era gets neglected, or seems to.

I'm probably lonely on this but i'm of the opinion he was a far better dancer back then. Just more fluid, natural and loose. I'd take this over anything he choreographed after the BAD era.

He was more comfortable back then his dancing got more complex after this era though so I can’t agree 100 %.

^^ I still contest the routine for Ghosts is some of the funkiest dancing I've seen. I love that routine.

The fact they were gonna bust it out (all of it) during the breakdown in Threatened would have brought the house down.

Swa said:

^^ I still contest the routine for Ghosts is some of the funkiest dancing I've seen. I love that routine.

The fact they were gonna bust it out (all of it) during the breakdown in Threatened would have brought the house down.

NOW THAT WAS BAD ASS!!!!

To me most of the stuff from his 70's dance moves never really make me think he was better dancer back then or looked more comfortable. I love dancing machine but when he does TV shows.. just another choreographed dance moves of Fred Astaire imitation. And personally I'm not a fan of tap dance The emotion you can deliver with tap dancing is so freaking limited that most of the time it's just viewed as "happy dancing"

I love when he improvises dance moves at live concerts. I think by History era his dance moves covered so many different genres of dance like mime, breakdancing, modern ballet, popping, robot etc. Ahhh genius! I just love the way he dances...No one can express that many different emotions through dancing successfully like MJ...truly the master It's like he's body parts are attached to music and the melody is moving him...so intense...

The only I don't like iS Dangerous AMA 1993 the backup dancers look like they didn't rehearse enough or something...it's so obviously shown the backup dancers can't keep up with MJ =(

[Edited 6/8/11 18:24pm]

MOL said:

The Michael Jackson from the mid seventies to the early eighties was a phenomenom, the definition of talent. During that point he was, to me, the best thing in the music scene. He was a prolific compositor, arranger and producer who did everything on his own (don't give me the siblings BS because I don't rate them). He'd release albums and albums every year. His voice was perfection: never has the mainstream music scene seen such thing and his dance steps were God-like. He was complete, excelling in every area. Definitely the best.

I think your nostalgia goggles are on just a little too tight there. Not saying that he wasn't talented at that time, because he was, but he made a ton of improvement in later decades. He didn't just fall into decline, because you got too old to appreciate it.

MOL said:

Then he started aiming to be the biggest and the rest is history. Had Jackson stayed this way and developed as a musician (which he was doing fantastically until he stoped after Thriller) and he would the up there with Stevie Wonder, Dylan and so on in terms of respect.

MJ is already on the level of people such as Marilyn Monroe, Bob Marley, Jimi Hendrix, The Beatles, Princess Diana, Elvis, and etc. He's a cultural icon. The kind of treatment that the Beatles get today in terms of being being respected, musically, will come with time, but what more do you want?

Just some cute pics..

Those eyes...

Unholyalliance said:

Free2BMe said:

I am one of those proud MJ fans who doesn't give a shit if someone claims that I am a "fanatic" or not. IF being a "fanatic" means defending my favorite artist against bullshit, media manipulation, lies and other crap then so be it. If being a "fanatic" means that I don't have to agree with other artists' fans perception of what Michael is, should be or whatever, then so be it. All of this "objective" shit pisses the hell out of me because all of these so-called "objective" fans are about as objective as my left toe. Damn, I am so glad AND proud that Michael "walked to a different beat than anyone else". It made/makes him STILL the most interesting artist in the history of entertainment, IMO. As I have stated in another post, being a MJ fan means you really have to be strong as hell to put up with the shit that is thrown at Michael AND at his fans. You can NOT be weak and be a fan of Michael's. You can't worry about what others say about you. You certainly can't be intimidated about what others think of you. Being a MJ fan is not for the weak and timid. Either you are up to it or not and that's the bottomline.

[img:$uid]http://i.imgur.com/ay96z.png[/img:$uid]

Guys really?

Your making this sound like your in The Marines calm down lol

Unholyalliance said:

MOL said:

The Michael Jackson from the mid seventies to the early eighties was a phenomenom, the definition of talent. During that point he was, to me, the best thing in the music scene. He was a prolific compositor, arranger and producer who did everything on his own (don't give me the siblings BS because I don't rate them). He'd release albums and albums every year. His voice was perfection: never has the mainstream music scene seen such thing and his dance steps were God-like. He was complete, excelling in every area. Definitely the best.

I think your nostalgia goggles are on just a little too tight there. Not saying that he wasn't talented at that time, because he was, but he made a ton of improvement in later decades. He didn't just fall into decline, because you got too old to appreciate it.

MOL said:

Then he started aiming to be the biggest and the rest is history. Had Jackson stayed this way and developed as a musician (which he was doing fantastically until he stoped after Thriller) and he would the up there with Stevie Wonder, Dylan and so on in terms of respect.

MJ is already on the level of people such as Marilyn Monroe, Bob Marley, Jimi Hendrix, The Beatles, Princess Diana, Elvis, and etc. He's a cultural icon. The kind of treatment that the Beatles get today in terms of being being respected, musically, will come with time, but what more do you want?

No, the goggles are just fine. Improvement? His improvement stopped with Thriller. That's when he adopted formula "Jackson": how to make an album go number 1 on the charts. Add a rock song, a ballad, etc...just like Thriller. His goals changed: now he wanted "to sell 100 millions" not to show talent. There was no space for musical improvement.

Exactly, I got too old to appreciate it. I'm no longer a teenybopper which means I can't mantain a straight face when watching/listening to the MJ post Thriller. You're right on this one.

He will never be as respected musically because most of his post Thriller work is teenybopper-cheesy-rubbish. Jesus, Jackson's 30th annyversary concer wass ridiculous.

Have you watched "Living With Michael Jackson"? The guy would be, along with his entire family of freaks, in a mental ayslum if it was not for the billions. Watch the damn documentary. Oh, let me predict the answer: it was all Bashir's fault...

MOL said:

He will never be as respected musically because most of his post Thriller work is teenybopper-cheesy-rubbish. Jesus,

We're each entitled to our opinion, but speaking as someone who got fed up with the 90's "let's-sing-a-massive-earth-embracing-ballad-with-a-childrens'-choir" type of performances, and the increased wacky megalomania (the HIStory statue among others) - I'm one of those people who DO see value in his post-Thriller output.

The funky Teddy Riley stuff from Dangerous is far from "teenybopper". The crisp, modern productions from HIStory CD2. Even some of the non-ballad Darkchild stuff from Invincible. Just skip "Black or White" and "Heal The World", both of which are one of the cheesiest, worst songs he ever did. Or actually, any ballads. I could NEVER stand him doing ballads after "She's Out Of My Life", where he peaked, and which is one of his best in that regard, I.M.O. (Thriller had "Lady In My Life", but I don't see it as a ballad)

MOL said:

No, the goggles are just fine.

No, the goggles are not fine. They cloud your judgement considerably, hence the term 'nostalgia goggles.' You are saying all this bullshit, but, in reality, I think it's been his goal to be super successful since he started his solo career, and probably even before then. Didn't he say that they[Rolling Stone] are going to be asking him to do the cover to the magazine one day? It seems to me that he always had dream of grandeur. He wanted to step out of the box that society & the business put him and other black artists in. He wanted to be just as successful and even more so that his white peers. You don't just achieve everything that MJ achieved based on pure fucking luck. It takes a lot of hard work, focus, and strong goals/desires as well. He was naive in thinking he could always achieve those massive numbers and those who criticized him for it are just as bad, because I can't think of any other artist who does those kind of insane numbers more than once either. He is no different even if his name is Michael Jackson.

MOL said:

Improvement? His improvement stopped with Thriller. That's when he adopted formula "Jackson": how to make an album go number 1 on the charts. Add a rock song, a ballad, etc...just like Thriller. His goals changed: now he wanted "to sell 100 millions" not to show talent. There was no space for musical improvement.

But you are talking out of your ass, because selling big was his goal with Thriller. Also, his name is Michael Jackson, it would be weird if his album didn't go #1. His name is big. It has nothing to do with the contents of the album, especially since he didn't exactly follow that scenario anymore. His later work became a conglomeration of genres. As much as I liked Off The Wall, I am glad that he never went back. He moved on from pure dance albums and his Jacksons albums and started to explore new things. He truly began to explore himself as an artist, all with the encouragement of Quincy Jones and the others that worked with him. It's so sad that he wasn't comfortable enough with himself to do that full classical album earlier in his career, but I know the fact that MJ finally got to work on it just goes to show that he was taking that big step to finally do something that he really had passion about, besides wanting to combine the love of dancing with the passion of music.

I know it's hard to see the biggger picture when your head is stuck up your ass though. =/

MOL said:

Exactly, I got too old to appreciate it. I'm no longer a teenybopper which means I can't mantain a straight face when watching/listening to the MJ post Thriller. You're right on this one.

The true 'teenybopper' music was back during the Jackson 5 era and, arguably, his earlier work. His evolution as an artist happened post-Thriller. Though, when I said that you got to old to appreciate it, it's because just that, you are too old. When people get older, they tend to think that everything that comes after their youth is no longer appealing and music is not as good as it used to be. This is especially relevant since MJ tried his damndest to keep up with trends to keep himself relevant, especially seeing the history of r&b charts and what generally happens to older r&b acts. I think he understood this more than anyone. I mean...look what happened to the Jackson 5.

That being said, I don't think his later work was teenybopper in any case. I just think you are really crazy tbqh.

MOL said:

He will never be as respected musically because most of his post Thriller work is teenybopper-cheesy-rubbish. Jesus, Jackson's 30th annyversary concer wass ridiculous.

Do you even know what the term 'teenybopper' even means? Also, again, you are talking out of your ass. For the record, MJ just passed away. Give it some time for his later work to get more recognition. It's already happening as more people are giving his later catalog more of a chance than before and the younger generation needs time to grow up. It needs, at least, 10-20 years for that to happen. That shit doesn't happen overnight.

Also, the reason his music, in general, doesn't get the same respect as people such as Stevie Wonder, Bob Dylan, and etc. is for an entirely different reason. Even if music critics or silly elitists dont' give it that respect you think it needs, that's all right, because, to this day, his music is still being played for younger generation to listen to and learn about. In the end, that is what really matters, more than anything. That is how music truly survives.

MOL said:

Have you watched "Living With Michael Jackson"? The guy would be, along with his entire family of freaks, in a mental ayslum if it was not for the billions. Watch the damn documentary. Oh, let me predict the answer: it was all Bashir's fault...

I, honestly, think YOU belong in mental asylum tbqh. I think you know that too, because you keep stressing how crazy they are. I keep saying this and getting ignored here, but none of us really know MJ. In all your research, it's still text and you are doing nothing, but taking away your own interpretation of them. Whatever your interpretation of them is becomes a reflection of you and who you are. You constantly talking about how crazy they are is really just, because you have some kind of mental imbalance yourself. I'm sure your therapist told you this assuming that you have one. If you don't, that's exactly what they would tell you.

But I'm pretty sure you must be aware of that yourself.

Who cares what MOL thinks? Serious question.

Unholly:

First: I understood perfectly what you meant by "too old". However, I deliberately interpreted it/answered in a sarcastic manner as to make space for yet another observation on Jackson's post-Thriller music.

Second: It's funny that you defend the Jacksons' behaviour by attacking mine. You claim I don't know them and, therefore, I can't attack them in such cruel a manner. Well, you don't know me either therefore, by that line of thought, you can't attack me as well.

People get judged by their behaviour regardless of intimate contact. For the matter, I never knew Madoff and, yet, I can assure you he is a crook. Never knew Pol Pot either but I'm positive he was a crazy communist.

You have no arguments to defend their aberrant behaviour so, to counter argument what I said, you...attack me! It only gives me further reason and points lest I needed more.

In case you need yet another explanation look at your argument:

"You don't know the Jacksons so you can't attack them. Their victims of your crazy, therapist-needed behaviour.".

Not only do you do what you accuse me of doing, but you also play ad hominem while gently avoiding to address the point. Why is that?

I must say, though, that I don't blame you. At the mere though of having to defend that family, I cringe: I, too, would deviate the conversation and avoid the use of arguments...because I'd have noone.

WildStyle said:

Who cares what MOL thinks? Serious question.

People who actually have intelligence to understand my posts and have a toe-to-toe conversation with me. Not your case.

GO STUDY!

I'm guilty of having stan-like traits because of my addictive personality and cause of my tendencies to get too emotionally attached to michael though I've had my share of being upset and blunt too at times, but I really feel sorry for fans who have missed out on other music because they are too caught up with his. The big artists that are his peers listed on this thread, most of them are also in my collection with me owning almost all their albums if not all. I think michael is the best, and though I have periods of listening to him constantly and he is one of the biggest inspirations for me if not biggest, I listen to tons of 70's, 80's, 90's music too and other genres and I feel sad that MJ fans have not seen concert clips of Madonna and Prince's early tours, or are missing out on the greatness of Stevie's 70's work, or are too busy dissing Janet Jackson and missing out on what a great person she is and how her music has meaningful messages and so forth.

The teenybopper discussion is interesting. I would have thought he was viewed like that way before Thriller while with motown and not after. It always seemed to me he was enjoyed by all ages overall that peaked with Thriller and stayed this way ever since. With globalization and MJ's music being available in overseas countries, I can see adults getting into him and remembering hearing of them being into him during Bad, Dangerous, HIStory and onwards. In the 80's through early 90's, I remember people in their 20's and 30's mostly liking him, after that, it was people in their teens and 20's in the 90's, though after it, the age wasn't limited. And regarding that "fair" article, I saw different shifts in fans. I remember fans not liking Invincible as much as HIStory or the other albums who either bought it and didn't play it, or just didn't buy it, or fans in their teens who discovered him through the MSG concerts and TRL who got the album and became fans, who may have recalled hearing of him when he was young, or even getting a compilation or the number ones CD or DVD and appreciating him (I saw this happen with youth)

I have that tap dancing clip along with some other Jackson Variety show clips, it's pretty incredible isn't it? Kinda fun to shove in Prince stans's faces if anyone dares to say Prince does more stuff onstage, MJ did it at a different time and both looked up to Jackie Wilson and James Brown

[Edited 6/9/11 7:20am]

MOL said:

WildStyle said:

Who cares what MOL thinks? Serious question.

People who actually have intelligence to understand my posts and have a toe-to-toe conversation with me. Not your case.

GO STUDY!

Gunsnhalen said:

Unholyalliance said:

[img:$uid]http://i.imgur.com/ay96z.png[/img:$uid]

Guys really?

Your making this sound like your in The Marines calm down lol

Actually it is the Army of Love. But whateves.

Unholyalliance said:

Free2BMe said:

I am one of those proud MJ fans who doesn't give a shit if someone claims that I am a "fanatic" or not. IF being a "fanatic" means defending my favorite artist against bullshit, media manipulation, lies and other crap then so be it. If being a "fanatic" means that I don't have to agree with other artists' fans perception of what Michael is, should be or whatever, then so be it. All of this "objective" shit pisses the hell out of me because all of these so-called "objective" fans are about as objective as my left toe. Damn, I am so glad AND proud that Michael "walked to a different beat than anyone else". It made/makes him STILL the most interesting artist in the history of entertainment, IMO. As I have stated in another post, being a MJ fan means you really have to be strong as hell to put up with the shit that is thrown at Michael AND at his fans. You can NOT be weak and be a fan of Michael's. You can't worry about what others say about you. You certainly can't be intimidated about what others think of you. Being a MJ fan is not for the weak and timid. Either you are up to it or not and that's the bottomline.

[img:$uid]http://i.imgur.com/ay96z.png[/img:$uid]

I completely agree, Free2BMe. Thank you for saying that.

Remember when Vh1 used to have those Michael marathons in the afternoon around 2001-2005? I used to come straight home from school watching them.

I will say this I see a lot of people my age range (20-27) focus a lot on Michael Bad and Post Bad so I can’t really say if his later material get’s that overlooked. I think it was more during that time the drama started to overshadow his music career maybe it’s why people choose not to focus on that period mostly the ones who grew up with Michael... I see some that prefer him with his brothers to thriller some that prefer him after. Even I at times would say that my favorite Era was Off The Wall but Michael was good in all Era’s. You can find more than one Gem in all his albums I can’t remember the last time I listened to thriller (I wore it out) I seem to be getting more into History and Blood On The Dance floor these days. Michael had something for everyone.