MJJstudent said:

Derek1984 said:

Finally talk about the MUSIC.

I think Thriller as an album is perfection. Baby Be Mine does sound the most dated on the album but that doesn't bother me the least. It's still a great, quality song I happen to play A LOT. In fact, it's my ringtone

Now for the demo's and unreleased: Behind The Mask wouldn't seem to me to fit on the album. Perhaps it's because it uses a sample, but I think Thriller had just the right amount of dance songs on it. Now several tracks the intrigue me; You Told Me Your Lovin'... Who Do You Know... Rolling The Dice... Remember This Night... Those all seem like they could potentially be REALLY good songs. Of course that depends on how much they were finished. IMO, if they were really that good, they would've been included on Victory.

I like Hot Street and Got The Hots. But it's obvious why they didn't make the cut - too weak compared to the other material.

I think the story about how Thriller sounded like crap when it was finished and how it had to be shortened re-mixed and how MJ almost didn't want to release the project at all is a fascinating story in itself. Thriller is the biggest selling album of all time and deservedly so.

man, that story is one of the most compelling of all times, when it comes to the industry.

i'm actually more interested in the process of the album than the album itself. having listened to the audiophile/half-speed edition of thriller i think it's phenomenal in terms of an engineering standpoint (yaaay swedien!) but i think on the surface it is his weakest album, and far from perfection.

i'm not really into 'hot street' at all, so i'm glad that's not on the album; but i think there are songs that got on the album that are MUCH weaker than 'got the hots'. i think 'behind the mask' would have fared better than 'thriller', if the phillinganes arrangement was used.

i don't think 'baby be mine' is dated though... i think it's one of the songs on the albums that holds up the most, in terms of time. the ballads on that album stand the test of time. the only dance track that survives is 'wanna be startin' somethin''. 'beat it' does, in a way as well, if you're looking at it as a classic rock song.

you mentioned victory... i think some of those songs on victory would do better than some of those cuts on thriller. 'heartbreak hotel' would have set it off perfectly, say, on the first song on side 2 (not unlike victory).

[Edited 3/16/11 21:06pm]

MJ said in his 1984 deposition that he felt a lot of songs he recorded during the Thriller session was far more superior than what's on the actual record.

Behind The Mask SHOULD have been on that album from jump, but legal issues prevented it from appearing. I'm sure the original version of it WAS Greg's production. The one we hear on the Michael cd is remixed.

Hot Street was one of MJ's favorites.

Heartbreak Hotel was recorded for Triumph but it would have came off as some sort of sequel to Thriller. None of the songs from Victory would have fit with Thriller, besides State of Shock, which was recorded for Thriller to my knowledge

funkyandy said:

Michael...

Just, thank you.

simple, but the most beautiful words on this forum...

Swa said:

Good to see the discussion on music again - and as everyone is talking about Thriller - here's my recollection on the album.

Share yours.

THRILLER

It’s hard to write about Thriller and not talk about how many records it broke, how many awards it garnered or how it truly revolutionised how music was produced, packaged and visualised. For the record industry, and for Michael himself, there will always be a pre-Thriller and post Thriller period. A time when he went from star, to superstar to supernova. Some even listen to the music now and might question why it is touted as being such a genre-breaking album when these days mixing rock with funk with pop with soul with middle of the road seems run of the norm, but 25 years ago this album truly was unlike anything else on the market. And 25 years later, it continues to influence. But for a brief period of time in 1982 it was just a new release from an artist who had a huge hit with Off The Wall, and many at the time were doubting if this album would match that in terms of artistic endeavours and sales.

Like many people at the time our first introduction to Thriller was the Paul McCartney duet “The Girl Is Mine”. Based on this being the lead single things didn’t bode so well for what was to follow – after all Michael kicked off Off The Wall with the superfunk jam of Don’t Stop To You Get Enough as lead single. So did this mean that Michael at the ripe old age of 24, and having been a professional recording artist for 13 years already, was mellowing? What did it mean for this new release?

All fears were set aside when you put the needle on the record and heard the opening triple strike snare of Wanna Be Startin’ Somethin’. With it’s driving beat and infectious groove Wanna Be Startin’ Somethin’ bridges the gap between where we left off with Off The Wall and what Thriller promised. Filled with energy the relentless bass line grounds the track through the verses and choruses as Michael delivers a vocal that ascends and descends with each line, a delivery that is pure and raw. With each passing verse we get more instrumental embellishment, horns puncture lines, synths swirl, percussive claps hit. They combine in a way that elevates the track to a higher plain with each new chorus. Even the backing vocals offer richness, especially in the “you’re a vegetable” line when Michael even taunts through the section. Perhaps his most personal take on the world the lyrics convey his helplessness as those around him feed off gossip and rumour. At 6.02 the song never overstays it’s welcome and as it builds to its apex with the now often sampled chant the song elevates to a new place and makes you just want to join in the chant. Still to this day this track is just as moving and catchy as it was way back in 82.

Baby Be Mine with its syncopated beat and r&b feel it lets Michael twist and turn lyrics, extending some words and contracting others, allowing him his vocals to come to the fore. Whilst beautifully produced it does suffer from being a bit too cutesy and pop-perfect, and while catchy it does feel suffer from a dated synth sound that would become increasing prevalent as the decade continued. The only track on here that feels more filler than thriller.

The Girl Is Mine drifts over to the syrupy pop side of things, with Michael and Paul trading lyrical takes against a lush arrangement. Again there is no faulting the vocal delivery and harmonies this two make, but the song boarders on being cringe worthy. Part of me wishes Michael had stuck to his guns and kept it more in the jazzy feel of the original demo.

Thriller is a track that just goes for broke. Laden with sound effects, horroresque imagery, funk groove, and vocal hooks, it carries the load and comes out on top. An instant party jam of the most unlikely kind, Thriller benefits from being reworked from the weaker Starlight chorus, and adds a bit more punch. It’s a track with big ambitions and epic production and while not an all time favourite, it is a song that is undeniably catchy and paints such a vivid picture that it seems almost made for the music video treatment. A nod is due to Vincent Prince, the king of ghoul, who delivers a perfect read in just two takes. And how iconic is that laugh? Packed full of funk and fun, Thriller works it out.

From the opening electro-chimes Beat It sounded unlike anything you had heard. It’s harder edge was evident from the opening and the guitar work throughout is on point. Michael delivers his voice with a bit of anger and at points spits out the words, laying down the lyrical challenge. Once again Michael pulled it out when it was needed writing the track when Quincy felt the album needed a rock track of the My Sharona kind. Thankfully rather than just deliver a generic rock-pop track like the latter, Beat It still comes packed with killer hooks and a musical sensibility. Eddie Van Halen’s contribution cannot be understated, it’s a soaring guitar solo that is all trademark Eddie working the fret board like a magician – and for it’s time such a pairing of a “white” rock god on a “black” track was unheard of, and in some camps, shocking.

As you listen through the album, you have tracks like Startin’ Somethin’, Thriller and Beat It that just seem to take the album further and further into new territories and you kind of prepare yourself for lesser tracks following the knockout punch of Beat It but then…

The opening beat to Billie Jean kicks in. The crispness on that opening beat is something to marvel at. Just a simple one step beat, but the way it hits it has energy and it’s so tight. And then the bass line kicks in. A mix of strut and stalk the bass just walks its way through the track and is so fat it hums through the speakers. Now for most songs that would be enough to make it an instant classic, but musically Michael brings so many little hooks to the track that its truly surprising that Quincy Jones didn’t think the track was strong enough to include on Thriller. Thankfully Michael held to his belief. This is the quintessential Michael track, from the percussive lyrical delivery, the rich harmonies, the countering backing vocals, the hook filled touches the song is as close to perfection as you are likely to come. From the verse with its baseline and ascending, descending keys, to the build to the chorus with its flury of synth horns and trademark “heeeees”, to the chorus with its guitar hook and stabbing strings, to the bridge with its twanged guitar solo, there is something in every phrase to catch the ear and keep it entertained. And of course then there is Michael’s flawless vocal delivery, filled with intrigue and concern and then flat out denial. This track rightfully rocket Michael into the stratosphere.

Human Nature with its haunting arrangement and trickling synth melody lays the perfect bed for Michael’s vocals to bring this ballad home. Without trying too hard, the song just cruises along almost dreamily before taking off with those amazing extended “whyyyyyyy”. Although predominately synth based, there is an organic warmth to the track thanks mostly to Michael’s vocal delivery (especially in the often missed backing vocals) that makes it still feel fresh and current.

P.Y.T. is a song that when I first heard it felt was too poppy. Overtime I have come to appreciate it and accept it for what it is, a happy joyous love song that I occasionally catch myself enjoying too much. All that said, it is probably the underestimated carefree party jam of the album.

Packed full of old school soul Lady in My Life is another slice of perfect production. Seductive and smooth the song just builds with pure vocals, and enticing melodies delivering dual peaks of the amazing bridge and the extended break down just past the mid point of the song. Hear Michael’s vocals just swirl and dip and soar. Totally ad-libbed Michael did what Quincy asked of him and just lays it all on the line. The texture of the vocals are rich and deep and impassioned. It’s the perfect icing on the cake that is Thriller and leaves you wanting more, the perfect way to end an album.

In the 28 years since Thriller there hasn’t been an album that has come close to mixing so many different styles so effortlessly that it feels like a given. Nor has there been an album that influenced so many different artists that followed. It’s perhaps easy now to wonder what made it so amazing, when a lot of albums since have used it as a blueprint to try and replicate that kind of success, but to really appreciate it you have to listen to it like you did back in the day when radio was segregated, when genres were well defined and not often crossed.

Thriller was everything Michael had hoped for. It cemented him as a global star, and while it rocketed him into the stratosphere of musical icon, it would also be the benchmark to which everything that came after had to surpass or measure up to. A feat no one, not even Michael would be able to pull off, and one that perhaps distracted him at times from moving forwards as an artist and taking risks.

But there are few albums that decades after their release still manage to sound relevant and fresh, and for the most part Thriller does this.

i definitely feel different about the album as you do (i think thriller pales in comparison to ALL of his albums, before and after... i only ultimately like four songs on the album. i also find 'starlight' to have better lyrics), but i think this was well-wriiten. thanks for this, swa.

ViintageJunkiie said:

MJJstudent said:

man, that story is one of the most compelling of all times, when it comes to the industry.

i'm actually more interested in the process of the album than the album itself. having listened to the audiophile/half-speed edition of thriller i think it's phenomenal in terms of an engineering standpoint (yaaay swedien!) but i think on the surface it is his weakest album, and far from perfection.

i'm not really into 'hot street' at all, so i'm glad that's not on the album; but i think there are songs that got on the album that are MUCH weaker than 'got the hots'. i think 'behind the mask' would have fared better than 'thriller', if the phillinganes arrangement was used.

i don't think 'baby be mine' is dated though... i think it's one of the songs on the albums that holds up the most, in terms of time. the ballads on that album stand the test of time. the only dance track that survives is 'wanna be startin' somethin''. 'beat it' does, in a way as well, if you're looking at it as a classic rock song.

you mentioned victory... i think some of those songs on victory would do better than some of those cuts on thriller. 'heartbreak hotel' would have set it off perfectly, say, on the first song on side 2 (not unlike victory).

[Edited 3/16/11 21:06pm]

MJ said in his 1984 deposition that he felt a lot of songs he recorded during the Thriller session was far more superior than what's on the actual record.

Behind The Mask SHOULD have been on that album from jump, but legal issues prevented it from appearing. I'm sure the original version of it WAS Greg's production. The one we hear on the Michael cd is remixed.

Hot Street was one of MJ's favorites.

Heartbreak Hotel was recorded for Triumph but it would have came off as some sort of sequel to Thriller. None of the songs from Victory would have fit with Thriller, besides State of Shock, which was recorded for Thriller to my knowledge

there are songs michael liked that i think are straight up garbage. he also liked people like chris brown and usher, and i don't like those people at all, musically.

'state of shock', i hate that song. both mercury and jagger versions. yeah, i meant 'triumph', actually, referring to 'heartbreak hotel'. thanks for catching that. the only song i like on victory is 'be not always'. that album sucks, besides that one song. people hate that song, but i think it's the only song worth listening to on that album.

triumph, in comparison, is brilliant.

this is why i am not a famous artist, because i would never release things for the sales, or to try to get some award from guiness. thriller would be a solid album if michael listened to his subconscious side and released the material he felt would have been better than what was officially released.

i don't have the 'michael' album, i don't consider it a michael album, so i don't acknowledge it. i heard it on the sony site and i consider it the worst album i've ever heard in my life, simply because they are trying to create an environment which is artificial. if they felt a need to release these songs, they should have remained raw and unfinished. or simply release demos people have already heard 50,000 times, since fans already uploaded them.

and i maintain that 'heartbreak hotel' SHOULD have been on the thriller album, replacing 'thriller'. that instrumental bridge is one of michael's most brilliant moments, as well as the piano/keyboard outro. if the 'starlight' lyrics were there (with the album's arrangement of 'thriller') then i'd like the song better. i just prefer the more positive lyrics. even though 'heartbreak hotel's' lyrics are pretty dark, there's a cleverness to it, i the way 'thriller' does not have. arrangement-wise, the song is great. but to me, it's one of temperton's weakest moments in terms of lyrics.

mimi07 said:

Timmy84 said:

This aging idiot will never get it would he? Greasy motherfucker.

damn som of yall are so hostile, you'd thik jermaine came in and stole ya dinner if he wants to write a book about his brother, who cares everyone else is no one is obligated to buy it.

Like he put oil in my dinner.

MJJstudent said:

ViintageJunkiie said:

MJ said in his 1984 deposition that he felt a lot of songs he recorded during the Thriller session was far more superior than what's on the actual record.

Behind The Mask SHOULD have been on that album from jump, but legal issues prevented it from appearing. I'm sure the original version of it WAS Greg's production. The one we hear on the Michael cd is remixed.

Hot Street was one of MJ's favorites.

Heartbreak Hotel was recorded for Triumph but it would have came off as some sort of sequel to Thriller. None of the songs from Victory would have fit with Thriller, besides State of Shock, which was recorded for Thriller to my knowledge

there are songs michael liked that i think are straight up garbage. he also liked people like chris brown and usher, and i don't like those people at all, musically.

'state of shock', i hate that song. both mercury and jagger versions. yeah, i meant 'triumph', actually, referring to 'heartbreak hotel'. thanks for catching that. the only song i like on victory is 'be not always'. that album sucks, besides that one song. people hate that song, but i think it's the only song worth listening to on that album.

triumph, in comparison, is brilliant.

this is why i am not a famous artist, because i would never release things for the sales, or to try to get some award from guiness. thriller would be a solid album if michael listened to his subconscious side and released the material he felt would have been better than what was officially released.

i don't have the 'michael' album, i don't consider it a michael album, so i don't acknowledge it. i heard it on the sony site and i consider it the worst album i've ever heard in my life, simply because they are trying to create an environment which is artificial. if they felt a need to release these songs, they should have remained raw and unfinished. or simply release demos people have already heard 50,000 times, since fans already uploaded them.

and i maintain that 'heartbreak hotel' SHOULD have been on the thriller album, replacing 'thriller'. that instrumental bridge is one of michael's most brilliant moments, as well as the piano/keyboard outro. if the 'starlight' lyrics were there (with the album's arrangement of 'thriller') then i'd like the song better. i just prefer the more positive lyrics. even though 'heartbreak hotel's' lyrics are pretty dark, there's a cleverness to it, i the way 'thriller' does not have. arrangement-wise, the song is great. but to me, it's one of temperton's weakest moments in terms of lyrics.

I think it was MJ's idea to change the lyrics to Starlight, making it something scary and fun. Heartbreak Hotel is a great song! When performed live (along with Another Part of Me), it clearly surpasses the album version. Someday we'll hear the records MJ spoke so highly of (i.e Buffalo Bill...)

ViintageJunkiie said:

MJJstudent said:

there are songs michael liked that i think are straight up garbage. he also liked people like chris brown and usher, and i don't like those people at all, musically.

'state of shock', i hate that song. both mercury and jagger versions. yeah, i meant 'triumph', actually, referring to 'heartbreak hotel'. thanks for catching that. the only song i like on victory is 'be not always'. that album sucks, besides that one song. people hate that song, but i think it's the only song worth listening to on that album.

triumph, in comparison, is brilliant.

this is why i am not a famous artist, because i would never release things for the sales, or to try to get some award from guiness. thriller would be a solid album if michael listened to his subconscious side and released the material he felt would have been better than what was officially released.

i don't have the 'michael' album, i don't consider it a michael album, so i don't acknowledge it. i heard it on the sony site and i consider it the worst album i've ever heard in my life, simply because they are trying to create an environment which is artificial. if they felt a need to release these songs, they should have remained raw and unfinished. or simply release demos people have already heard 50,000 times, since fans already uploaded them.

and i maintain that 'heartbreak hotel' SHOULD have been on the thriller album, replacing 'thriller'. that instrumental bridge is one of michael's most brilliant moments, as well as the piano/keyboard outro. if the 'starlight' lyrics were there (with the album's arrangement of 'thriller') then i'd like the song better. i just prefer the more positive lyrics. even though 'heartbreak hotel's' lyrics are pretty dark, there's a cleverness to it, i the way 'thriller' does not have. arrangement-wise, the song is great. but to me, it's one of temperton's weakest moments in terms of lyrics.

I think it was MJ's idea to change the lyrics to Starlight, making it something scary and fun. Heartbreak Hotel is a great song! When performed live (along with Another Part of Me), it clearly surpasses the album version. Someday we'll hear the records MJ spoke so highly of (i.e Buffalo Bill...)

i recognize a lot of that, but again, i don't agree with a lot of michael's ideas, artistically. 'heartbreak hotel' fares much better, in terms of getting across it's message of darkness/paranoia/fear or whatever. and lyrically, it's much better.

i think i like both the recorded and live versions (of both 'heartbreak hotel' and 'another part of me') for different reasons. i like that 'another part of me', live, is pitched lower. and the minneapolis influence is definitely there in the live version. i prefer the 'bad' tour/phillinganes as musical director version of 'heartbreak hotel' better than the victory tour version.

and yeah, i have heard so much about songs like 'buffalo bill' over the years, i'm interested in hearing them. songs like 'cheater' though- this is a song i absolutely LOVE- written by michael, with phillinganes- it doesn't necessarilily fit on the bad album (the way that album turned out), but it's such a great song... 'buffalo bill' may just be one of those songs. who knows?

MJJstudent said:

ViintageJunkiie said:

I think it was MJ's idea to change the lyrics to Starlight, making it something scary and fun. Heartbreak Hotel is a great song! When performed live (along with Another Part of Me), it clearly surpasses the album version. Someday we'll hear the records MJ spoke so highly of (i.e Buffalo Bill...)

i recognize a lot of that, but again, i don't agree with a lot of michael's ideas, artistically. 'heartbreak hotel' fares much better, in terms of getting across it's message of darkness/paranoia/fear or whatever. and lyrically, it's much better.

i think i like both the recorded and live versions (of both 'heartbreak hotel' and 'another part of me') for different reasons. i like that 'another part of me', live, is pitched lower. and the minneapolis influence is definitely there in the live version. i prefer the 'bad' tour/phillinganes as musical director version of 'heartbreak hotel' better than the victory tour version.

and yeah, i have heard so much about songs like 'buffalo bill' over the years, i'm interested in hearing them. songs like 'cheater' though- this is a song i absolutely LOVE- written by michael, with phillinganes- it doesn't necessarilily fit on the bad album (the way that album turned out), but it's such a great song... 'buffalo bill' may just be one of those songs. who knows?

Most def! Cheater is one of my favorites! Didn't quite fit the direction of Bad, but would have made a nice b-side to something like "Smooth Criminal" or "Bad". Only thing I know about Buffalo Bill is the hook goes "Who shot Buffalo Bill? They said he shot a lot, did he ever get killed?" He spoke so highly of the record, along with Frank DiLeo

ViintageJunkiie said:

MJJstudent said:

i recognize a lot of that, but again, i don't agree with a lot of michael's ideas, artistically. 'heartbreak hotel' fares much better, in terms of getting across it's message of darkness/paranoia/fear or whatever. and lyrically, it's much better.

i think i like both the recorded and live versions (of both 'heartbreak hotel' and 'another part of me') for different reasons. i like that 'another part of me', live, is pitched lower. and the minneapolis influence is definitely there in the live version. i prefer the 'bad' tour/phillinganes as musical director version of 'heartbreak hotel' better than the victory tour version.

and yeah, i have heard so much about songs like 'buffalo bill' over the years, i'm interested in hearing them. songs like 'cheater' though- this is a song i absolutely LOVE- written by michael, with phillinganes- it doesn't necessarilily fit on the bad album (the way that album turned out), but it's such a great song... 'buffalo bill' may just be one of those songs. who knows?

Most def! Cheater is one of my favorites! Didn't quite fit the direction of Bad, but would have made a nice b-side to something like "Smooth Criminal" or "Bad". Only thing I know about Buffalo Bill is the hook goes "Who shot Buffalo Bill? They said he shot a lot, did he ever get killed?" He spoke so highly of the record, along with Frank DiLeo

i have the 12" promo the u.k. division of epic put out of 'cheater', when the ultimate collection boxed set came out. i don't think the u.s. division had anything like that. it sounds GREAT on vinyl!

I feel Got The Hots and Behind The Mask could've been on the album or at least b-sides

That's one reason I feel that the singles on Thriller didn't go higher on the charts (although they were all top 10 hits). Because they offered nothing but material that fans already had, the singles aside from the first 3 singles peaked outside of the top 5

The Girl Is Mine Pop#2, R&B #1

Billie Jean Pop#1, R&B#1

Beat It Pop#1, R&B#1

Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' Pop#5, R&B#5

Human Nature Pop#7, R&B#27

PYT Pop#10, R&B# 46

Thriller Pop#4. R&B#3

think like this, had Got The Hots been the b-side to Human Nature, it would've been in the top 5 on the Hot 100 and definitely #1 on the R&B chart (where it peaked at #27)

and Behind The Mask being the b-side to maybe PYT could've helped the single get a high chart placing

looking at it, Bad did somewhat better on the charts than Thriller did on the R&B chart

We know janet has had "34 number ones" plus make me, and this is applying to various charts besides the Billboard Hot 100

I'm too lazy to count and check, but can someone tell me all of Jackson 5, Jacksons and Michael's solo (Motown and Epic/Sony) Number Ones please, including the r&b charts and overseas charts number ones like in Europe and elsewhere? I want to see if the number is the same.

alphastreet said:

We know janet has had "34 number ones" plus make me, and this is applying to various charts besides the Billboard Hot 100

I'm too lazy to count and check, but can someone tell me all of Jackson 5, Jacksons and Michael's solo (Motown and Epic/Sony) Number Ones please, including the r&b charts and overseas charts number ones like in Europe and elsewhere? I want to see if the number is the same.

Based on the Hot 100, R&B, Dance charts and the UK charts: Michael and The Jackson 5 as a collective had had 29 #1 singles. If you count charts from Spain, Australia, South Africa, Japan, Zimbabwe, it's close to 40

ViintageJunkiie said:

MJJstudent said:

man, that story is one of the most compelling of all times, when it comes to the industry.

i'm actually more interested in the process of the album than the album itself. having listened to the audiophile/half-speed edition of thriller i think it's phenomenal in terms of an engineering standpoint (yaaay swedien!) but i think on the surface it is his weakest album, and far from perfection.

i'm not really into 'hot street' at all, so i'm glad that's not on the album; but i think there are songs that got on the album that are MUCH weaker than 'got the hots'. i think 'behind the mask' would have fared better than 'thriller', if the phillinganes arrangement was used.

i don't think 'baby be mine' is dated though... i think it's one of the songs on the albums that holds up the most, in terms of time. the ballads on that album stand the test of time. the only dance track that survives is 'wanna be startin' somethin''. 'beat it' does, in a way as well, if you're looking at it as a classic rock song.

you mentioned victory... i think some of those songs on victory would do better than some of those cuts on thriller. 'heartbreak hotel' would have set it off perfectly, say, on the first song on side 2 (not unlike victory).

[Edited 3/16/11 21:06pm]

MJ said in his 1984 deposition that he felt a lot of songs he recorded during the Thriller session was far more superior than what's on the actual record.

Behind The Mask SHOULD have been on that album from jump, but legal issues prevented it from appearing. I'm sure the original version of it WAS Greg's production. The one we hear on the Michael cd is remixed.

Hot Street was one of MJ's favorites.

Heartbreak Hotel was recorded for Triumph but it would have came off as some sort of sequel to Thriller. None of the songs from Victory would have fit with Thriller, besides State of Shock, which was recorded for Thriller to my knowledge

State of Shock wasn't recorded for Thriller. It was written and recorded post Thriller sessions with the explicit purpose of being on Victory.

ViintageJunkiie said:

MJJstudent said:

i recognize a lot of that, but again, i don't agree with a lot of michael's ideas, artistically. 'heartbreak hotel' fares much better, in terms of getting across it's message of darkness/paranoia/fear or whatever. and lyrically, it's much better.

i think i like both the recorded and live versions (of both 'heartbreak hotel' and 'another part of me') for different reasons. i like that 'another part of me', live, is pitched lower. and the minneapolis influence is definitely there in the live version. i prefer the 'bad' tour/phillinganes as musical director version of 'heartbreak hotel' better than the victory tour version.

and yeah, i have heard so much about songs like 'buffalo bill' over the years, i'm interested in hearing them. songs like 'cheater' though- this is a song i absolutely LOVE- written by michael, with phillinganes- it doesn't necessarilily fit on the bad album (the way that album turned out), but it's such a great song... 'buffalo bill' may just be one of those songs. who knows?

Most def! Cheater is one of my favorites! Didn't quite fit the direction of Bad, but would have made a nice b-side to something like "Smooth Criminal" or "Bad". Only thing I know about Buffalo Bill is the hook goes "Who shot Buffalo Bill? They said he shot a lot, did he ever get killed?" He spoke so highly of the record, along with Frank DiLeo

Cheater to me sounded like a poor man's The Way You Make Me Feel - and not just the intro which he repurposed for Heartbreak Hotel live and then later TWYMMF.

bboy87 said:

alphastreet said:

We know janet has had "34 number ones" plus make me, and this is applying to various charts besides the Billboard Hot 100

I'm too lazy to count and check, but can someone tell me all of Jackson 5, Jacksons and Michael's solo (Motown and Epic/Sony) Number Ones please, including the r&b charts and overseas charts number ones like in Europe and elsewhere? I want to see if the number is the same.

Based on the Hot 100, R&B, Dance charts and the UK charts: Michael and The Jackson 5 as a collective had had 29 #1 singles. If you count charts from Spain, Australia, South Africa, Japan, Zimbabwe, it's close to 40

yes I wanted to count countries like that, Janet included Canada and South Africa, so it's only fair

So where's the list?

alphastreet said:

bboy87 said:

Based on the Hot 100, R&B, Dance charts and the UK charts: Michael and The Jackson 5 as a collective had had 29 #1 singles. If you count charts from Spain, Australia, South Africa, Japan, Zimbabwe, it's close to 40

yes I wanted to count countries like that, Janet included Canada and South Africa, so it's only fair

So where's the list?

I'll compile it later today

bboy87 said:

alphastreet said:

yes I wanted to count countries like that, Janet included Canada and South Africa, so it's only fair

So where's the list?

I'll compile it later today

Thanks, I knew I could count on you, the human mj encyclopedia.

I would check my j5 remasters for the chart positions they listed, but I feel lazy

bboy87 said:

alphastreet said:

yes I wanted to count countries like that, Janet included Canada and South Africa, so it's only fair

So where's the list?

I'll compile it later today

Michael, the Jackson 5/Jacksons and Janet put in a good list of number-ones and top tens in over 40 years so yeah this should be interesting when you get it done.

We know Buffalo Bill was worked on for Victory but if MJ thought so highly of it, why wasn't it included on Victory? And I have a hunch that it was reworked in the BAD sessions, only to be left off that album as well. All I know was an engineer told me that Buffalo Bill had a "John Barnes influence" type sound.

R&B star Ne-Yo is planning a Michael Jackson tribute album featuring songs he claims the late singer planned to record.

The 31-year-old chart-topper says he met with Jackson to discuss the new album in the months before the superstar died at home in Los Angeles in June 2009.
The American says he wrote and demoed 10 songs that Jackson was set to record as his next long-player.
Ne-Yo, real name Shaffer Chimere Smith Jnr, said: “I never got the opportunity to go in the studio and record the songs with Mike so all the tracks still have my voice on them.
“They are all in demo form. We were going to go into the studio and record them after his tour.
“Of course, with his passing, we didn’t get the chance to do so.
“So I still have the songs. They are sitting in my archive, safe and sound, and I have been trying to figure out what I am going to do with them. The best idea I have is to go in and do my own Michael Jackson tribute album.
“I’ll re-sing the songs to the best of my ability and I will put them out and let the world know these are the songs that would have been blessed with the voice of Michael Jackson had he not left us so soon.”
Recalling his meeting with Jackson, Ne-Yo added: “I met Mike in New York. Someone told me he was a fan of my music and wanted to talk to me about working on his forthcoming project.
“So we met at a friend’s house. He was a genuinely nice guy, not because he wanted something from me or wanted me to feel comfortable so I would write songs for him.
“He was talking about music and the love of music. We parted ways after a few hours and I walked away able to say I had sat and had a conversation with a legend.”

http://www.dailyrecord.co...-22993338/

I am not really into Mj's personal life but i was wondering what Mj fans generally think are his ten best songs ?

Mine would probably go:

1. Wanna be startin somethin

2. Billie Jean

3. Dont stop till you get enough

4. Beat It

5. Human Nature

6. The Way You Make Me Feel
7. Man in the Mirror

8. Liberian Girl

9. You Rock My World

10. Rock with You

SherryJackson said:

Hello children...can you all say CONSPIRACY???

http://www.tmz.com/2011/03/15/michael-jackson-surveillance-video-erased-lapd-dr-conrad-murray-tape-death-died/

Yeah, I read that yesterday. Makes absolutely no sense that the LAPD would erase the tapes And not only that, they’re claiming the tapes show Michael arriving at his home at 12:30am?? But didn’t he leave from rehearsing at the Staples center at 1:30am? I thought I remembered reading in the affidavit that Murray arrived at MJ’s home at 1am and waited for him and his entourage…so how could the video tapes show Michael arriving at his home at 12:30? Somethings really not right about this whole thing. And then you have the lawyers for Randy Phillips and Arnie Klein in court yesterday fighting their subpoenas….

http://www.tmz.com/2011/0...ial-quash/

NaughtyKitty said:

SherryJackson said:

Hello children...can you all say CONSPIRACY???

http://www.tmz.com/2011/03/15/michael-jackson-surveillance-video-erased-lapd-dr-conrad-murray-tape-death-died/

Yeah, I read that yesterday. Makes absolutely no sense that the LAPD would erase the tapes And not only that, they’re claiming the tapes show Michael arriving at his home at 12:30am?? But didn’t he leave from rehearsing at the Staples center at 1:30am? I thought I remembered reading in the affidavit that Murray arrived at MJ’s home at 1am and waited for him and his entourage…so how could the video tapes show Michael arriving at his home at 12:30? Somethings really not right about this whole thing. And then you have the lawyers for Randy Phillips and Arnie Klein in court yesterday fighting their subpoenas….

http://www.tmz.com/2011/0...ial-quash/

typical lapd 'shenanigans'.

to be fair, though, there's an awful lot of blame to go around. the cops believed the good doctor's story that he didn't know how mj died. just like poor mj, everyone gave murray the benefit of the doubt b/c he is a doctor. they saw this as a cardiac arrest case, not a homicide. then, of course, you have his family and others going around saying mj was a drug addict. whether he was or not, it gave the police even more reason to believe there was no crime committed.

by the time they finally get around to the security guard's statements, and murray's 'confession' of sorts, that whole crime scene had been compromised. they probably hadn't safeguarded a lot of things, which was alluded to in the prelim.

i think it is probably the reason we see an involuntary rather than a 2nd degree charge. i truly believe murray purposely did not call paramedics until he was sure it was going to be too late b/c he didn't want mj to be revived to tell what had been going on, but it can't be proven b/c too much of the crime scene was compromised.

[Edited 3/17/11 9:14am]

Oh MJJStudent gonna whoop mah ass for this...but I always liked this performance of TWYMMF

I think he coulda gotten a better lookin' girl...but whatever...

I miss this Mike. His body looked healthy, he wasn't too skinny. Just right.

ViintageJunkiie said:

MJJstudent said:

there are songs michael liked that i think are straight up garbage. he also liked people like chris brown and usher, and i don't like those people at all, musically.

'state of shock', i hate that song. both mercury and jagger versions. yeah, i meant 'triumph', actually, referring to 'heartbreak hotel'. thanks for catching that. the only song i like on victory is 'be not always'. that album sucks, besides that one song. people hate that song, but i think it's the only song worth listening to on that album.

triumph, in comparison, is brilliant.

this is why i am not a famous artist, because i would never release things for the sales, or to try to get some award from guiness. thriller would be a solid album if michael listened to his subconscious side and released the material he felt would have been better than what was officially released.

i don't have the 'michael' album, i don't consider it a michael album, so i don't acknowledge it. i heard it on the sony site and i consider it the worst album i've ever heard in my life, simply because they are trying to create an environment which is artificial. if they felt a need to release these songs, they should have remained raw and unfinished. or simply release demos people have already heard 50,000 times, since fans already uploaded them.

and i maintain that 'heartbreak hotel' SHOULD have been on the thriller album, replacing 'thriller'. that instrumental bridge is one of michael's most brilliant moments, as well as the piano/keyboard outro. if the 'starlight' lyrics were there (with the album's arrangement of 'thriller') then i'd like the song better. i just prefer the more positive lyrics. even though 'heartbreak hotel's' lyrics are pretty dark, there's a cleverness to it, i the way 'thriller' does not have. arrangement-wise, the song is great. but to me, it's one of temperton's weakest moments in terms of lyrics.

I think it was MJ's idea to change the lyrics to Starlight, making it something scary and fun. Heartbreak Hotel is a great song! When performed live (along with Another Part of Me), it clearly surpasses the album version. Someday we'll hear the records MJ spoke so highly of (i.e Buffalo Bill...)

We better...

Swa said:

ViintageJunkiie said:

MJ said in his 1984 deposition that he felt a lot of songs he recorded during the Thriller session was far more superior than what's on the actual record.

Behind The Mask SHOULD have been on that album from jump, but legal issues prevented it from appearing. I'm sure the original version of it WAS Greg's production. The one we hear on the Michael cd is remixed.

Hot Street was one of MJ's favorites.

Heartbreak Hotel was recorded for Triumph but it would have came off as some sort of sequel to Thriller. None of the songs from Victory would have fit with Thriller, besides State of Shock, which was recorded for Thriller to my knowledge

State of Shock wasn't recorded for Thriller. It was written and recorded post Thriller sessions with the explicit purpose of being on Victory.

State of Shock dates as far back as 1982 when MJ and Freddie were working on music together. It was always a "stop and go" process. They didn't finish the record until 83-84

ViintageJunkiie said:

Swa said:

State of Shock wasn't recorded for Thriller. It was written and recorded post Thriller sessions with the explicit purpose of being on Victory.

State of Shock dates as far back as 1982 when MJ and Freddie were working on music together. It was always a "stop and go" process. They didn't finish the record until 83-84

Interesting how so many songs were for some albums and then were recorded for other albums. Same thing happened with Stevie.

Derek1984 said:

We know Buffalo Bill was worked on for Victory but if MJ thought so highly of it, why wasn't it included on Victory? And I have a hunch that it was reworked in the BAD sessions, only to be left off that album as well. All I know was an engineer told me that Buffalo Bill had a "John Barnes influence" type sound.

A lot of songs they recorded didn't make the cut of Victory. MJ said he'd work on one song, then another song comes up and beats out the previous

Hey,how you nasty bitches been?

*Looks around*

[Edited 3/17/11 11:19am]